Barbaro Euthanized

[InfiniVet]

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http://sports.yahoo.com/rah/news?slug=ap-barbarodeath&prov=ap&type=lgns


=(

 

[ri23]

I actually just listened to my voicemail and my dad had left a message about that 🙁

 

[philomycus]

At the risk of sounding like such a "bunny hugger", if only all the unloved homeless animals euthanized every day could be given such attention 🙁

 

[agr1365]

While keeping up on Barbaro I always thought that he would have to be put down sooner or later. However, I was hoping for the best. Kind of sucks to see a champion go out like that, but it is a fact of life and veterinary medicine that they all cannot be saved. 🙁

 

[Emio]

I actually just listened to my voicemail and my dad had left a message about that 🙁

i found out during micro lab via a text from my dad. everyone in my micro class knows about it just from my reaction.

he put up one hell of a fight. rest in peace, Barbaro.

 

[InfiniVet]

I simply wonder what the future of large animal medicine brings. 50 years ago, we might've just shot Barbaro on the spot, but today they've got all kinds of marvelous equipment to fix a shattered leg.
Problem is, I don't see society placing a whole lot of value (read: money) into equine medicine. As a society, we are only moving away from having horses in our lives - except for the track, of course. Its a shame, and yes, while competitions in multiple disciplines are still quite popular, equine medicine is not exactly a lightning-fast growing field of interest. It seems to only get smaller and more specialized so that, if your horse smashed his leg 50 years from now, it would probably still cost tens of thousands of dollars with the same, poor prognosis.

 

[m&ossyducks]

While keeping up on Barbaro I always thought that he would have to be put down sooner or later. However, I was hoping for the best. Kind of sucks to see a champion go out like that, but it is a fact of life and veterinary medicine that they all cannot be saved. 🙁

Agreed,

I have also heard from some folks that insurance played a large role in his fate since his initial injury at the Preakness.

 

[FatPalomino]

if you guys want to help other quality horses, that are headed to slaughter, please visit
www.coloradoTBrescue.org

The money spent on Barbaro could help hundreds or thousands of these kind slaughterbound horses. However, I have been told that the Jackson family, that owns Barbaro, has donated generously to local horse rescues. Also, they paid out of pocket for Barbaro's expenses, rather than euth. him and accept a large insurance payout like the insurance company wanted them to do.

 

[su_grad2007]

I think it's admirable all the money and effort they put into saving him. To me it shows that he's not just some "machine" to be disposed of but a living breathing animal that people cared about. I mean even if they had been able to heal and live, he never would have ran again, although I'm sure his sperm would have cost a pretty penny. I hope the love for Barbaro will trickle over to other animals out there who are in need of help. That's just my 2 cents.

 

[dvm'08]

Also, they paid out of pocket for Barbaro's expenses, rather than euth. him and accept a large insurance payout like the insurance company wanted them to do.

I think in all actuality, euthanising him is exactly what should have happened in the first place. His odds for recovery were dismal, and i think had he been any other horse, he would have been euthanised right there on the track (and rightfully so). I think that the efforts taken to save his life were noble, however unrealistic.

Equine fractures are complicated and repairing them are fraught with problems - as with Barboro, even if you can fix the fracture, the stressors you put on the other parts of their bodies are, in many cases, overwhelming and often life threatening in themselves. Obviously you will never save horses if you dont try - but i really think a little more discretion should have been used in this case.

 

[Emio]

I think in all actuality, euthanising him is exactly what should have happened in the first place. His odds for recovery were dismal, and i think had he been any other horse, he would have been euthanised right there on the track (and rightfully so). I think that the efforts taken to save his life were noble, however unrealistic.

Equine fractures are complicated and repairing them are fraught with problems - as with Barboro, even if you can fix the fracture, the stressors you put on the other parts of their bodies are, in many cases, overwhelming and often life threatening in themselves. Obviously you will never save horses if you dont try - but i really think a little more discretion should have been used in this case.

this was bound to come up eventually, and i'm sure you've heard the counter argument, but discretion is exactly what made their decision so SOON. yes, soon. barbaro was a fighter, and anyone who has been in a life/death situation knows the animal communicates their opinion. i've had numerous animals "tell" me they were done. barbaro made it clear he wanted to keep going, so the owners and dr richardson basically honored his wishes.

monday morning, barbaro said "i'm done." so they put him down before lunch time. that horse was uncomfortable for a matter of hours. not months.

please don't think i'm attacking you - you're dead-on with the "fraught with problems," but a desire to keep going does a lot more than medicine can, and the horse had the desire, so they help him out with medicine. until yesterday.

 

[Bill59]

I think any of us wold be on shaky ground to start second-guessing treatment decisions in a complicated case like this. The best persons to make these decisions are the attending veterinarians and the clients. Each situation is different and they are the ones fully informed of the particular details in the individual patient.

I would hate to think my professional judgement was questioned on a specific patient by persons unaware of these details.

 

[julieDVM]

Although i dont necessarily disagree with you, i would encourage commentary on the treatment decisions in cases like this. Realistically, its the only way students learn. Who is to say that the extraordinary measures taken to save this horse weren't acceptable - who's to say they were. Arguments for and against have been raised, and i'm sure they've been discussed in veterinary classes in a constructive manner and people here have the right to share them.

Regardless, i dont think you should discourage discussion surrounding the issue, nor do i think discussing it (barbaro's treatment) is out of line - so long as it remains professional and courteous.

 

[Orthonut]

At the risk of sounding like such a "bunny hugger", if only all the unloved homeless animals euthanized every day could be given such attention 🙁

I don't understand the point you are getting at? THE HORSE PAID FOR HIS OWN MEDICAL CARE.

On top of that, he was insured for major medical.

On top of that, I can assure you that had he been a stray barn cat in the broodmare barn of Lael Stables Gretchen and Roy would have provided him the same compassionate care.

GET OVER YOURSELF. How dare you insult Mr and Mrs Jackson and the Team Matz and Penn Vet in this manner.

 

[KittenKiller]

I think in all actuality, euthanising him is exactly what should have happened in the first place. His odds for recovery were dismal, and i think had he been any other horse, he would have been euthanised right there on the track (and rightfully so). I think that the efforts taken to save his life were noble, however unrealistic.

You know, I think that's right in some cases but Im not sure about this one. Horses are not like people - they do not have the same will to live in spite of pain. A person with terminal cancer can opt to go through excruciating chemotherapy to eek out a few extra weeks or months with their loved ones; despite agreeing to treatments that will make them sicker and give them even more pain, they choose this path. An animal cant make that decision, and to choose the more painful path for the animal without a poor prognosis can be cruel. If a horse has a 10% chance of recovery and needs to go through a year of surgery after surgery and pains and setbacks, is it worth it? I dont know what the cutoff is, but at some point, I think its much crueler to try to prolong a suffering animal's life than to euthanize it.

However, I imagine Barbaro's doctors believed his chances were good enough to make it worth it, and Id like to think they have good judgement. I was reading the reports Penn was releasing over the past year and they all indicated he had a lot of vitality and energy, that despite his injuries on most days he wasn't behaving as if he was in too much pain. He was active, bright eyed and hungry. And just because any other horse would have been euthaniezd right there on the track, doesnt mean he should have. He was just lucky (or unlucky) to have been the kentucky derby winner and have enough people fork over enough dough to go ahead with the surgeries and treatment.

And even if the insurance was a factor, so what? Perhaps the owners said thats enough. We dont want to go through this anymore, we dont want to put the horse through this anymore. We're emotionally tired and financially drained. Its not like youre euthanizing your mom for an insurance payout. Its a horse. I cant say I wouldnt have done it if someone offered me a million dollars or something.

 

[ratbandit]

How you somehow twisted her comment to be an attack against those you mentioned is ludacrous. It would be great if all animals were treated with the care and dedication that Barbaro was - the comment is as benign as that. I guess if you read into it and really TRY to take it personally, anything could be derived from her GENERAL STATEMENT.

edit: sorry kittenkiller this was not in response to you

 

[dvm'08]

I don't understand the point you are getting at? THE HORSE PAID FOR HIS OWN MEDICAL CARE.

On top of that, he was insured for major medical.

On top of that, I can assure you that had he been a stray barn cat in the broodmare barn of Lael Stables Gretchen and Roy would have provided him the same compassionate care.

GET OVER YOURSELF. How dare you insult Mr and Mrs Jackson and the Team Matz and Penn Vet in this manner.

You're way out of line.

 

[cyrille104]

Although i dont necessarily disagree with you, i would encourage commentary on the treatment decisions in cases like this. Realistically, its the only way students learn. Who is to say that the extraordinary measures taken to save this horse weren't acceptable - who's to say they were. Arguments for and against have been raised, and i'm sure they've been discussed in veterinary classes in a constructive manner and people here have the right to share them.

Regardless, i dont think you should discourage discussion surrounding the issue, nor do i think discussing it (barbaro's treatment) is out of line - so long as it remains professional and courteous.

Good point. But that makes this discussion a topic for the veterinary forum. The only people who can legitimately comment on the injuries, risks, and chances of survival are trained professionals (vets) or at least vet students.

 

[cyrille104]

How you somehow twisted her comment to be an attack against those you mentioned is ludacrous. It would be great if all animals were treated with the care and dedication that Barbaro was - the comment is as benign as that. I guess if you read into it and really TRY to take it personally, anything could be derived from her GENERAL STATEMENT.

You're way out of line.

 

[KittenKiller]

Good point. But that makes this discussion a topic for the veterinary forum. The only people who can legitimately comment on the injuries, risks, and chances of survival are trained professionals (vets) or at least vet students.

Sure, the only ones who can legitimately give medical advice in the decision making process should be trained professionals. I should *hope* no pet owners were taking my whimsical advice. But these forums are just for fun and its interesting both medically and philosophically to discuss these things And anyway, its good practice 🙂

Is that Orthonut dude kidding? If not, Id say one of Barbaro's stableboys went bonkers on his death and made an avatar here 😉

 

[InfiniVet]

lol
their stray barn cats are insured for major medical expenses?

okok...back on track:

The point I would make, as we are the next generation of veterinarians - is that is is our responsibility to dedicate as much effort as possible to further not only equine medicine, but all veterinary medicine in general, to improve prognosis for difficult but important cases like this.

Barbaro's case is important because it brings attention to orthopedic surgeries that are common enough in track medicine, which has not substantially improved since the 1950s. The Penn staff is probably the optimal veterinary facility in this country - but when we still consider euthanizing on the spot for a broken leg, man, we could do so much better than that. And why should it still cost a phenomenal amount of money to treat him? Hydrotherapy is something they should have been using back in the seventies, but it wasn't fully accepted until the 1990's for example.

He was a fantastic athlete who ought to at least been able to stand at stud. Thanks to cloning advances I'm sure they'll harvest his sperm.

But we ought to do better.

 

[hoodle]

I'm amazed that Barbaro was just euthanized, especially as I saw him just 10 hours before his death. I foal-sit at UPenn and I was there until midnight - he was put down around 10:30 AM, I think. When I saw him and in the hours before, he really seemed in pain. The nurses were really concerned and hysterical; they loved him so much. Anyhow, the hope was that he would lie down in his stall, without the sling, and take some of the weight off. Unfortunately, he would not lie down, and was rooted to the same place for hours. About an hour before I left, they put him back in the sling, and everyone was pretty worried - but I didn't know just how bad it was. I'm glad the ordeal is over for all involved.

 

[philomycus]

Geez, chill Orthonut. I think it's GREAT they did everything to try to save the horse and give him a chance. Obviously the vets on the case wouldn't have gone through all the trouble if it was unethical (horse had zero chance, in pain, etc.). Obviously it's a great topic to discuss on so many levels. I am in no way implying the vet team wouldn't be compassionate about a cat, dog, or even a hamster. Nor am I questioning their judgement- I think they did the best job they could.

I was disheartened about him being put down, just as I am other animals who aren't as lucky to get that second chance who deserve better medical care....the dog who has heartworms, but the owner can't pay, the cat with a broken leg and the owner can't pay. It's sad when ANY animal in euthanized.

And OBVIOUSLY you are twisting my intent. Glad to know you have plenty of time to pick 'fights' on the chat board.

I think it's awesome that we've come far in our approaches to medicine, and yes 20 years ago he would have had no chance and been put down right away. Don't know why you're so "touchy". And BTW, when I said "attention" I meant media attention....

 

[Cheska]

I'm amazed that Barbaro was just euthanized, especially as I saw him just 10 hours before his death. I foal-sit at UPenn and I was there until midnight - he was put down around 10:30 AM, I think. When I saw him and in the hours before, he really seemed in pain. The nurses were really concerned and hysterical; they loved him so much. Anyhow, the hope was that he would lie down in his stall, without the sling, and take some of the weight off. Unfortunately, he would not lie down, and was rooted to the same place for hours. About an hour before I left, they put him back in the sling, and everyone was pretty worried - but I didn't know just how bad it was. I'm glad the ordeal is over for all involved.

Hoodle,
Thank you for posting your personal experience with the situation, it must have be incredible to see him up close, and now terribly sad too. I know the whole country has been following his situation for months, and I know many people cared about him- it just meant a lot to me to read it from someone who saw it first hand.

 

[wildfocus]

hoodle - thanks for sharing yoru experiences.... and my condolences. it's always sad/humbling when you become attached and the patient doesn't pull through (speaking from experience with people and other animals). one positive from this case, however, is the overwhelming support for a non-human - and the discussions (on horse racing, treatment, euthanasia) brought up in households across the country.

 

[FatPalomino]

Also, the Jackson's have tried to educate everyone they come in contact with about the plight of slaughterbound horses (a plight that tens of thousands of injured racehorses endure).

It is a gigantic rarity that racing owners demonstrate the compassion and dedication that the Jackson's and Michael Matz did. Just because the horse earned good money does not mean anything. I have an imported Stakes Winning horse in my barn that was dead lame and bound directlly for slaughter. He made the owners $178,000 IN THEIR POCKET (after fees. etc) in TWO races. This horse also recently foundered, much like Barbaro, but not due to an injury on an opoosite leg but due to the stress of being shipped in a double decker cattle trailer for 1500 miles. The old trainer told the racing world they will help pay for the horse's recovery, but it has been a battle to get even the price of a month's worth of hay out of them. And such is the racing business....

Barbaro, just like the horse I have in my barn, was tough. These horses keep getting up every day despite an incredible amount of pain. I can tell you from personal expereince that my horse has the utmost amount of trust in me. He trusts me to work on his feet, even though it may hurt, as he just seems to know we are always doing the best for him. He realy knows I am helping him (and if you don't beleive, try having a new person handle the horse 🙂. Sometimes these horses just have so much trust in people, and therefore, it's even more important that we make the decisions to end their pain once it become too much.

My horse's shots at living were 50/50. Somtimes you win, sometimes you lose. We won, Barbaro unfortunetly lost. But I bet if you ask the vets, family, and trainer involved with Barbaro, they would do it all over again if given the chance.

 

[Iain]

About the speculation in regards to insurance being involved in putting Barbaro down - firstly race horses are not eligible for major medical, the Jackson's paid for all his care. Secondly you will find most large farms significantly under insure because of high premiums, some do not insure at all. Considering the Jackson's own the dam and many very expensive race horses I am almost certain this is the case, and would not be surprised if he was not insured at all.

 

[KittenKiller]

There's some HBO special on tonight at 10 about Barbaro, for anyone interested.