Base salaries

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nimish

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I wasn't sure where exactly to put this, but hopefully this is at least one suitable spot for this thread.
I have searched this forum and many other sites as well as Google. I'm trying to find a reliable source for salaries for doctors in different fields, especially with specialties in their fields.
I've heard a lot of rumors that base salaries of docs will be reducing because of the economy in general, but mostly because of medicare. First of all, is this true? And second, does anyone have a source where general salary trends can be seen? If not trends, then at least base 2005/2006 salaries for different fields.
Any information would be greatly appreciated! 🙂
 
There are several on-line resources as well as a book the AMA produces for academic salaries by specialty and region of the country.

See: http://www.physicianssearch.com/physician/salary.html
for the MGMA Salary Survey which many companies use to base salaries on

Cejka Search is a Physician Recruitment company which has a salary survey on-line: http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm

Another recruiting agency: http://www.alliedphysicians.com/salary-surveys/physicians/
 
Kimberli Cox said:
There are several on-line resources as well as a book the AMA produces for academic salaries by specialty and region of the country.

See: http://www.physicianssearch.com/physician/salary.html
for the MGMA Salary Survey which many companies use to base salaries on

Cejka Search is a Physician Recruitment company which has a salary survey on-line: http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm

Another recruiting agency: http://www.alliedphysicians.com/salary-surveys/physicians/
Click to expand...

The one I bolded is awful... it has not been updated since 2001.
 
Great! Thanks for the links and the information guys!😀

Does anyone know if the general trend regarding a reduction in salares is, in fact, accurate or not?
 
From speaking to people in the know the best one out there is the allied physician one. Talking to people this seems to most closely emulate what people i know are getting. I think it might be on the low side but gives an idea.
 
They're not really declining, what is declining is what physicians are paid for each service taking into account inflation. In reaction physicians have increased their production on average 6%. The end effect is basically barely keeping up with inflation - working harder for the same amount of money. In any event, it shouldn't really effect your choice of careers. If you're in it for the money it's still the surest bet for a high income, and if you're in it because you are interested/enjoy it, then it won't matter.
 
(nicedream) said:
They're not really declining, what is declining is what physicians are paid for each service taking into account inflation. In reaction physicians have increased their production on average 6%. The end effect is basically barely keeping up with inflation - working harder for the same amount of money. In any event, it shouldn't really effect your choice of careers. If you're in it for the money it's still the surest bet for a high income, and if you're in it because you are interested/enjoy it, then it won't matter.
Click to expand...

Well, its still not fair. How can this broken system be changed to reflect inflation? It is not cool or right to have to keep increasing productivity. Form a union? Boycott the messed up insurance industry until they play fair? Moonlight as a Chippendale's Dancer?
 
toothless rufus said:
Well, its still not fair. How can this broken system be changed to reflect inflation? It is not cool or right to have to keep increasing productivity. Form a union? Boycott the messed up insurance industry until they play fair? Moonlight as a Chippendale's Dancer?
Click to expand...

Most insurers hinge their reimbursement to the medicare rates. The feds in an attempt to reign in rising medicare cost came up with the 'sustainable growth rate' methodology to define how much they pay in total for all services rendered. Essentially the 'pot' is dependent on the development of wages over the last five years. Now, in the last 5 years wages have taken a hit in the US, as a result the SGR formula prescribes 3-5% cuts in medicare reimbursement every year. Every year, in the last session of congress, they pass another 'fix' that keeps reimbursements either at the current level or gives us a 1-2% 'raise' (unfortunately all of these 'raises' are A. eaten by increased cost of doing business B. financed by 'borrowing' from future raises).

So, instead of looking at this in the terms of socialist workers struggle, with the evil insurance companies one one end and the worker-doctors on the other, it would be helpful to look at it as the basically political issue that it truly is: How much is healthcare worth to US society ?
 
f_w said:
Most insurers hinge their reimbursement to the medicare rates. The feds in an attempt to reign in rising medicare cost came up with the 'sustainable growth rate' methodology to define how much they pay in total for all services rendered. Essentially the 'pot' is dependent on the development of wages over the last five years. Now, in the last 5 years wages have taken a hit in the US, as a result the SGR formula prescribes 3-5% cuts in medicare reimbursement every year. Every year, in the last session of congress, they pass another 'fix' that keeps reimbursements either at the current level or gives us a 1-2% 'raise' (unfortunately all of these 'raises' are A. eaten by increased cost of doing business B. financed by 'borrowing' from future raises).

So, instead of looking at this in the terms of socialist workers struggle, with the evil insurance companies one one end and the worker-doctors on the other, it would be helpful to look at it as the basically political issue that it truly is: How much is healthcare worth to US society ?
Click to expand...


I think that it's pretty simple. When Medicare first came out, the AMA failed to prevent it from being created, but doctors themselves could have killed it quickly by failing to accept it. Any study of physician reimbursement after the passage of Medicare shows a spike in salaries, disproportionately going to specialists. We are now seeing inflation adjusted salaries for primary care falling to the pre-medicare levels. The difference is, that we are now beholden to a government behemoth that will eat everything in its wake. The specialists will be next, and unless we find a way to distance ourselves from the monster, the vision of the proud physician saving lives will be replaced by an image of a physician who kneels and begs from a sniveling beauracrat.

The begging has already begun. This will be an endless cycle until we stop begging for favors from the government.
 
Kimberli Cox said:
There are several on-line resources as well as a book the AMA produces for academic salaries by specialty and region of the country.

See: http://www.physicianssearch.com/physician/salary.html
for the MGMA Salary Survey which many companies use to base salaries on

Cejka Search is a Physician Recruitment company which has a salary survey on-line: http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm

Another recruiting agency: http://www.alliedphysicians.com/salary-surveys/physicians/
Click to expand...

Could someone please explain to me how these differ so much from this http://msn.careerbuilder.com/custom/...d=917&GT1=8934

Do anesthesiologists make $174,240 or $337,654? How can they be so far off?
 
bump
 
p9142 said:
Could someone please explain to me how these differ so much from this http://msn.careerbuilder.com/custom/...d=917&GT1=8934

Do anesthesiologists make $174,240 or $337,654? How can they be so far off?
Click to expand...

Because it depends on what criteria they are using the make their estimates.

Do the salary ranges include subspecialists (who might make more), are they stratified by years out (starting wage might be less than average), private vs academics, etc.

It goes to show you that these salary estimates are nothing more - they are not usually based on what a wide range of jobs or salary levels, but at least give you some sort of ball park to shoot for. The best "survey" is to ask practitioners in your field what they make.
 
Perhaps more importantly, keep in mind that these are "base" salaries, and are exclusive of benefits and, of course, bonuses. Bonus structures in lucrative private practices can be over $200k per year (and not reported in base salary)...
 
Kimberli Cox said:
Probably not, along with religion and politics. But perhaps couching it in terms of "what would you think is a good starting salary for my field" wouldn't be so ill received.

BTw, what do YOU make Kent? 😉
Click to expand...

Yeah, inquiring minds want to know!

(Some great links, too... just bookmarked a few of them.)
 
Kimberli Cox said:
Probably not, along with religion and politics. But perhaps couching it in terms of "what would you think is a good starting salary for my field" wouldn't be so ill received.

BTw, what do YOU make Kent? 😉
Click to expand...

If you notice, I've never stated my exact income on these forums, for two reasons. First, I don't necessarily want the whole world to know my business, since I'm not exactly anonymous here. Second, it's considered confidential information by our group, just like our fee schedules with payors.

I have, however, said that the average primary care physician in my group (myself included) earns well above the average for family physicians across the country. I've also said that we have some primary care folks earning more than $300K (although that's not me...not yet, anyway.) That's as much information as I'm able to give.
 
KentW said:
If you notice, I've never stated my exact income on these forums, for two reasons. First, I don't necessarily want the whole world to know my business, since I'm not exactly anonymous here. Second, it's considered confidential information by our group, just like our fee schedules with payors.

I have, however, said that the average primary care physician in my group (myself included) earns well above the average for family physicians across the country. I've also said that we have some primary care folks earning more than $300K (although that's not me...not yet, anyway.) That's as much information as I'm able to give.
Click to expand...

Kent... you're my hero.... well maybe you would be if the damn dog you put as an avator was not so odd looking. :laugh:
 
Kent,
What is the population in the area that you practice? Is the group your in primarily provide primary care to almost everybody there?
 
KentW said:
If you notice, I've never stated my exact income on these forums, for two reasons. First, I don't necessarily want the whole world to know my business, since I'm not exactly anonymous here. Second, it's considered confidential information by our group, just like our fee schedules with payors.

I have, however, said that the average primary care physician in my group (myself included) earns well above the average for family physicians across the country. I've also said that we have some primary care folks earning more than $300K (although that's not me...not yet, anyway.) That's as much information as I'm able to give.
Click to expand...


Doh...sorry...I was teasing, wasn't really asking for your salary information. That would be inappropriate, especially on an internet forum!

But thanks for the input anyway!
 
bkpa2med said:
What is the population in the area that you practice?
Click to expand...

There are around 1.6 million in our metropolitan area, but our primary catchment area is a third of that.

Is the group your in primarily provide primary care to almost everybody there?
Click to expand...

Oh, not even close. There's plenty of competition.

Kimberli Cox said:
Doh...sorry...I was teasing, wasn't really asking for your salary information. That would be inappropriate, especially on an internet forum!
Click to expand...

I knew you weren't asking seriously. There's a lot of misinformation about primary care incomes here on SDN, so it might be useful for those interested in a primary care career to know that we're not all starving. 😉
 
KentW said:
If you notice, I've never stated my exact income on these forums, for two reasons. First, I don't necessarily want the whole world to know my business, since I'm not exactly anonymous here. Second, it's considered confidential information by our group, just like our fee schedules with payors.

I have, however, said that the average primary care physician in my group (myself included) earns well above the average for family physicians across the country. I've also said that we have some primary care folks earning more than $300K (although that's not me...not yet, anyway.) That's as much information as I'm able to give.
Click to expand...

👍 😎
 
from talking to people the allied physician link is the most accurate but jobs can be found that pay more and ones that pay less. Keep in mind that academics make less.
 
It also gets confusing when you're talking about starting salaries, because they are usually either artificially high or artificially low.

Well-managed private groups often start their new physicians at a lower guaranteed salary than they'll be making once they're a partner. The main reason for this is because the group itself is taking a big financial risk when they hire somebody new, especially if their practice is building up from scratch. However, once they become a full partner, their income usually goes up significantly because of bonuses, profit-sharing, and access to revenue streams from ancillary services.

HMOs and other "health systems" with deep pockets frequently dangle large starting salaries in front of candidates as a recruiting tactic. As with private practices, the guarantee is only for a limited time (usually 1-3 years), after which it's assumed that the new physician's practice will have built up enough to be self-sustaining. However, many physicians in this model find that they have to work even harder to maintain their income once their guaranteed salary runs out.
 
KentW said:
There are around 1.6 million in our metropolitan area, but our primary catchment area is a third of that.



Oh, not even close. There's plenty of competition.
Click to expand...


How do you fend off all that competition and still comfortably beat the mean salary?

care to share some tips?
 
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