Baylor vs Methodist Hospital

Discussion in 'Medical Students - MD' started by straightpunch, Apr 15, 2004.

  1. straightpunch

    straightpunch Junior Member

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    I'm going to Baylor in the fall :D and recently heard that there's a disagreement about Baylor building a new adult ambulatory clinic.

    Apparently the faculty are for it, but one of the larger hospitals, Methodist, is afraid that it will encroach on their territory. It's gotten so far that the hospital is threatening to sever their affiliation with Baylor, which concerns me since I'd be doing clinical rotations there :( Should I be worried?

    Thanks in advance for your input--
     
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  3. spumoni620

    spumoni620 .:good girl down:.
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  4. straightpunch

    straightpunch Junior Member

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    awesome! thanks, that thread really helped. see you at bmc!
     
  5. rjhtamu

    rjhtamu Stargazer Royale
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    Yeah, situation pretty much resolved. Methodist wanted to make a power play but realized they couldn't pull it off. So now they're giving Baylor a lot more money just to keep our affiliation with them as well as fronting the costs for the clinic. :D
     
  6. Gleevec

    Gleevec Peter, those are Cheerios
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    And apparently in the meanwhile Baylor gained even more connections with St. Lukes during the interim, and then when Methodist came back they reinstated all the original connections they had. So there was actually a net benefit apparently.
     
  7. straightpunch

    straightpunch Junior Member

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    sounds great! i wonder if the new clinic will be finished while i'm there...
     
  8. rjhtamu

    rjhtamu Stargazer Royale
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    Scheduled completion time for right now is tentative for 2007. Who knows if it will actually be done by then though.
     
  9. rjhtamu

    rjhtamu Stargazer Royale
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    New news on this issue was just released to us from Dr. Traber, the president of Baylor COM. Apparently affiliation has gone to St. Luke's now, and not Methodist. The letter doesn't explain the reasons, just the news.

     
  10. Gleevec

    Gleevec Peter, those are Cheerios
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    Well, from what I hear St Luke's is the better hospital to work for anyway (ranked one of the top places to work). Sounds like Baylor is still working with Methodist, but that its primarily affiliate is now St Lukes, which from what I hear is a good thing.

    That email was pretty lame in terms of details, and I was kinda laughing at the poem (if I did that for a paper I deserve a failing grade), but from what I hear, St Lukes is one of the best places to work in the TCH.

    What is your opinion on this, the people I talked to preferred St Lukes (and TCH, Ben Taub), what is your preference rjhtamu? What do you make of all this.

    Thanks again for the informative email!
     
  11. Gleevec

    Gleevec Peter, those are Cheerios
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    Here is the Houston Chronicles take:

    http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2522620

    Looks like Baylor is switching over to St. Luke's, and UT-Houston over to Methodist.

    My question is, a lot of the departments at Methodist that are ranked highly, are those Baylor faculty that would be leaving for St. Luke's, or what? Are any rotations/residency programs at Methodist going to be hurt because of this, or are those programs run by Baylor faculty so that this should not matter?

    Some of those questions are answered in the article:

    Q. What will be the biggest change that patients at Methodist and St. Luke's will notice?

    A. Though Baylor residents will increase their presence at St. Luke's, they will continue to practice at Methodist. Also, Baylor faculty will be seeing patients at a new adult outpatient center.

    Q. How are Baylor medical students and residents affected by this move?

    A. Baylor medical students and residents will continue to train at all of Baylor's affiliated hospitals, including Methodist. The new affiliation agreement will expand the opportunities for training at St. Luke's.

    Q. What will happen with Baylor-Methodist programs?

    A. Baylor envisions that some programs will be moved to St. Luke's, some will stay at Methodist and some will have a presence at both institutions.
     
  12. rjhtamu

    rjhtamu Stargazer Royale
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    As I am still relatively new to the Houston area, I'm afraid I really do not know that much about the Methodist or St. Luke's Health care systems. I'm not sure which people prefer with one over the other. They've been really tight lipped about things with us too, in fact I'm really surprised that this email was even released today before the big meeting tomorrow. Since we're in the middle of blocks, I doubt I'll be attending, so I'll have to hear more from second hand sources.

    However I will say that I really like Dr. Traber. I've met him and had dinner at his house with group of fellow students and he is a genuinely nice guy and good leader. He is very approachable and you can just go up to him and chat at anytime. Not at all what you might expect from the president of a med school.
     
  13. cmz

    cmz Pathology Wannabe
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    ... However, Feigen was a no bull**** kind of guy... they are both pretty straight up individuals, but Dr. Traber very often loves to dance around the serious topics.
     
  14. Gleevec

    Gleevec Peter, those are Cheerios
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    Baylor's News Release: http://www.bcm.edu/pa/affiliationagreement.htm

    Baylor College of Medicine, St. Luke?s sign new affiliation agreement

    HOUSTON -- (April 22, 2004) -- Baylor College of Medicine and St. Luke?s Episcopal Health System have entered into a new affiliation agreement that significantly expands St. Luke?s relationship as Baylor?s private adult affiliated teaching hospital.

    The strengthened affiliation agreement was approved by both institutional boards this week. The agreement will become effective April 24.

    The strengthened alliance is an enhancement of one of Baylor?s long-term hospital affiliations. Baylor maintains and will continue to maintain cooperative affiliations with several Texas Medical Center institutions including The Methodist Hospital, Texas Children?s Hospital, the Harris County Hospital District?s Ben Taub General Hospital, the Michael E. DeBakey Veteran?s Affairs Medical Center, and the Institute for Rehabilitation and Research. St. Luke?s will continue its longstanding affiliation with Texas Heart Institute and The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston.

    ?Baylor College of Medicine and St. Luke?s Episcopal Health System have long sustained a shared vision based on a set of core values focused on excellence in patient care, research, and education,? said BCM Board Chair Corbin J. Robertson Jr. ?This new affiliation agreement provides us the opportunity to forge a strategic partnership through which both institutions will pursue a common goal - providing an enhanced model of patient care for the community we serve.?

    ?For more than 40 years in our healthcare ministry in Houston, we have greatly valued our affiliation with Baylor College of Medicine,? said The Right Reverend Don Adger Wimberly, chairman of the St. Luke?s Episcopal Health System?s Board of Directors and Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Texas. ?Our new relationship will lead to enhancement of many already-strong clinical programs, as well as development of new clinical programs, bringing us to a point of even greater pre-eminence in patient care, research and education.?

    This expanded and comprehensive affiliation will provide a new model of patient care for Houstonians that will further augment education and research missions at the college. This new model will provide added benefits to patients, physicians, staff and the community in general through enhanced delivery of medical care. To achieve this objective requires a level of cooperation and integration between the two institutions that goes above and beyond the traditional medical school/hospital affiliation arrangement. It is a goal to which Baylor College of Medicine and St. Luke?s Episcopal Health System are both committed.

    While Baylor and St. Luke?s have been affiliated since September 1961, the new affiliation agreement will result in a strengthening of their shared programs to forge a new model for healthcare delivery that includes:
    Providing significant benefits to patients, physicians, staff, and the community through high quality medical care and accelerated diagnosis and treatment, enhanced medical research programs with a commitment to biomedical technology that addresses the needs of the patient, and state-of-the-art educational opportunities for the next generation of health care professionals.
    Providing patients a seamless experience in the delivery of care such as single billing, one-stop adult clinical care, and easier communication between medical specialty areas.
    Establishment of and enhancement of national centers of excellence that will result in cutting edge solutions to complex medical problems.
    Joint efforts by both Baylor and St. Luke?s in the areas of program development, prioritization, mechanisms of funding, and the planning and development of facilities.
    Provision of translational ?bench-to-bedside? research as the core of a new patient care model.

    In pursuing these programs, both Baylor and St. Luke?s share common values and a vision for enhanced patient care that will address many of the radical changes in the healthcare market today. This strengthened alliance between the long-time partners will open up new opportunities for Baylor College of Medicine including:
    The ability to see and treat patients in a Baylor-operated state of the art adult ambulatory care center for advanced diagnostic and therapeutic procedures.
    The ability to create more opportunity for cutting edge medical research.

    For St. Luke?s, the enhanced relationship will
    Provide patients and physicians with a new environment of care that optimizes the use of information, technology, research and education
    Enhance a number of clinical programs at St. Luke?s, leading to even greater pre-eminence in patient care delivery
    Include advanced and connected data systems enabling rapid access to information for physicians, other clinical staff, and patients-further enhancing care and outcomes across all patient care sites.

    The strengthened affiliation will benefit the Houston community by increasing access to care, accelerating diagnostic and therapy processes, augmenting treatment solutions, boosting medical research, and bringing the very latest in biomedical technology to the patient?s bedside. St. Luke?s is internationally recognized for excellence in patient care, and was the first hospital in Texas to receive Magnet designation, the highest honor for patient care. St. Luke?s Episcopal Hospital is home to the world-renowned Texas Heart Institute, ranked in the top 10 cardiovascular centers in the United States by U.S. News & World Report, and has been named by Fortune Magazine as among the ?100 Best Companies to Work For.? Baylor is also ranked the nation?s No. 13 medical school by U.S. News & World Report. This affiliation and resultant new model of patient care will be unparalleled in the nation in its ability to respond to a rapidly changing healthcare

    Baylor continues its key shared programs at other affiliated hospitals including:

    The Methodist Hospital: Joint programs in breast cancer study and treatment, cardiovascular disease, multi-organ transplant, psychiatry, diseases of inflammation, multiple sclerosis, muscular dystrophy, and many others. The two institutions together operate several clinics, such as the Breast Center at Baylor College of Medicine and The Methodist Hospital and the Center for Cell and Gene Therapy. Baylor and Methodist also are partners with The Menninger Clinic to provide psychiatry services. In addition, there are centers of excellence that the two institutions partner on in areas of cancer, heart disease and heart surgery, orthopedics and sports medicine and organ transplantation.

    Texas Children?s Hospital: Comprehensive pediatric patient care services as well as specialty programs such as the Texas Children?s Cancer Center, clinically based research studies at the USDA?s Children?s Nutrition Research Center, developmental pediatrics, and other pediatric specialty service areas.

    Harris County Hospital District: Provision of physician healthcare services at Ben Taub General Hospital, Quentin Mease Community Hospital and community health centers.

    The Michael E. DeBakey Veterans Affairs Medical Center: Provision of broad primary and specialty medical services for veterans, and research activities such as innovative investigations in Health Services Research, geriatrics, mental health, gastroenterology, and surgery.

    The Institute for Rehabilitation and Research: Provision of medical services in cooperation with The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston, and shared research areas such as the Rehabilitation Research and Training Center on Spinal Cord Injury, the Texas Rehabilitation Engineering Center and other spinal-related investigative areas.

    Tri-institutional and Multi-institutional Efforts: The Center for Cell and Gene Therapy, the Sickle Cell Center, the National Space Biomedical Research Institute and The Menninger Clinic are examples of how Baylor and its affiliated and non-affiliated institutions work together in the pursuit of healthcare solutions.

    In addition to these affiliations, Baylor has many long-standing ties to outstanding institutions such as Rice University, M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, the University of Houston, and The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston (UT-Houston). UT-Houston collaborates with Baylor and St. Luke?s in joint educational programs.
     
  15. EM Junkie

    EM Junkie SDN Donor
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    Just for clarification - the article did not state that UT-Houston would be "switching" their clinical rotations over to Methodist, simply that Methodist had approached UT-Houston. I am pretty confident that UT-Houston will keep all of its core rotations at Memorial-Hermann and LBJ Hospitals. We already have affiliations with MD Anderson, Methodist, and St. Luke's, so I doubt much will change on UT-Houston's end of things. Maybe just a slightly expanded role at Methodist.

    I too am curious what happens to all of the Baylor faculty that are department heads at Methodist. It seems like it would be hard for all of them to move to St. Luke's...

    I'm just glad that I know where I will be doing my 3rd year clerkships! (Sorry Baylor students....)
     
  16. trauma_junky

    trauma_junky 12 step pre-med rehab
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    Ya what a Marketing nightmare for Methodist. They totaly play off of the "Baylor College of Medicine Specialist in our system" in almost every form of media they produce. Don't worry though, I think that BAylor will have better luck with the St. Lukes system, plus it has a bigger dedication to indigent care. And if didn't already know, Ben Taub is where you'll see that most interesting stuff!
     
  17. Gleevec

    Gleevec Peter, those are Cheerios
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    Thanks for the clarification. I wouldnt worry too much about Baylor students knowing where their 3 year clerkships are. According to the article, Baylor will slowly shift departments over to St Lukes but keep some institutes at Methodist. Baylor will still have a presence in Methodist, and students will rotate through there. So it looks like the status quo rotatations with Methodist are maintained, but that there are now more rotations at St Lukes.

    See my above post, it looks like Baylor med students will still rotate through Methodist, but will start to rotate through St Lukes increasingly. From the third and fourth years I talked to, they tended to prefer St Lukes anyway (and if you look at the thread spumoni posted that I started earlier, the baylor students on SDN seem to prefer St Lukes as wel):

    Q. What will be the biggest change that patients at Methodist and St. Luke's will notice?

    A. Though Baylor residents will increase their presence at St. Luke's, they will continue to practice at Methodist. Also, Baylor faculty will be seeing patients at a new adult outpatient center.

    Q. How are Baylor medical students and residents affected by this move?

    A. Baylor medical students and residents will continue to train at all of Baylor's affiliated hospitals, including Methodist. The new affiliation agreement will expand the opportunities for training at St. Luke's.



    To me, it sounds like Baylor medical students and residents basically have even more opportunities than before at St Lukes, while maintaining exisiting training at Methodist (for at least the fields that havent transferred over to St Lukes)
     
  18. rjhtamu

    rjhtamu Stargazer Royale
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    I had heard that UT Houston just laughed off Methodist's offers to join affiliations with them, claming that UTH had more than they wanted already with the Memorial Herman System.
     
  19. sfgboy

    sfgboy Village fool
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    Actually, UT-H and MemorialHermann have been known to have a very strained relationship over the past couple decades. It all started in the late '80s when Hermann had issues appointing UT-Houston's clinical department heads to their respective posts as chiefs-of-service at Hermann. In protest, there was a mass-submission of letters of resignation by these department chairs, and the dean of UT-Houston called their bluffs and accepted their resignations.

    Anyway, since then, there has been a lot of bad blood between MemorialHermann's board of overseers and UT-Houston's executive council, and I have heard a couple of the AVPs and EVPs at UT-H mention off-the-record that in order for UT-Houston to rise in academic stature and prominence, it must change alliances and join with a more cooperative primary teaching affiliate.

    If Methodist isn't asking for too much (which is a big "IF" since I think this was the main contention between them and Baylor), I don't think it's far-fetched seeing a UT-Houston/Methodist alliance in the near future.
     
  20. rjhtamu

    rjhtamu Stargazer Royale
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    That would be an interesting situation if that were to occur.
     
  21. Gleevec

    Gleevec Peter, those are Cheerios
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    What choices does UT-H really have though aside from Methodist? There really is no other major healthcare network in Houston that is located in the medical center. I actually think Baylor did UT-H a favor here, because if UT-H tries to negotiate into Methodist, it is likely that Methodist's position will be softened by already having lost an academic partner.

    It would seem that UT-H's growth is more tied to MD Anderson though, which still seems to be growing quite rapidly.

     
  22. Gleevec

    Gleevec Peter, those are Cheerios
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    Hmm, this article paints a MUCH bleaker picture. What do yall think?

    http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2540231

    A group of prominent physicians at Baylor College of Medicine tried to prevent last week's breakup between the medical school and The Methodist Hospital by warning of "a crisis of major proportions" that could cause the school to "implode financially."

    On April 21, Baylor announced that Methodist would no longer serve as its primary adult teaching hospital, ending a 50-year partnership between the Texas Medical Center institutions.

    Baylor said it would instead forge an alliance with St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital, another Medical Center facility and longtime Methodist rival.

    On April 18, seven Baylor faculty members who are either department chairs or division chiefs wrote a strongly-worded letter to the boards of trustees at Baylor and Methodist pleading that their affiliation not come to an end.

    "If the St. Luke's affiliation proposal is adopted, a crisis of major proportions for Baylor will develop, and we will struggle to avoid devastating consequences," the letter said. "With (St. Luke's), the college will be burdened by more debt and, in fact, may implode financially."

    The Chronicle obtained a copy of the letter, but it did not include the names of those who signed it. A hospital official familiar with the letter who wished to remain anonymous said it was signed by seven faculty members who are either department chairs or division chiefs.

    The letter said that Baylor had never "faced such an alarming crisis over its future."

    The school has 25 departments, 17 of which are clinical and therefore use hospital facilities, said Baylor spokeswoman Lori Williams. Departments often have more than 20 divisions, which are presided over by division chiefs, she said.

    Peter G. Traber, president and CEO of Baylor, said in a statement Thursday that 43 of Baylor's 46 board members approved the new arrangement, three abstained.

    "When such a complex and consequential decision is considered by an institution of higher education, there will always be different views among faculty," Traber said. "The decision made by the Baylor Board of Trustees was a difficult one, but a decision made with thoughtful consideration and careful analysis of all the information before them."

    Methodist and St. Luke's officials declined to comment.

    Traber said that on April 19, Baylor's academic council -- which is made up of 50 faculty members who are department chairs, center directors and deans --unanimously supported the new affiliation agreement.

    But the letter from the previous day painted a much different picture.

    It said many of Baylor's faculty members would "undoubtedly" keep their clinical practices at Methodist, because Baylor and Methodist over the years have established so-called "centers of excellence" in various medical fields, including cardiovascular surgery, neurosurgery, psychiatry, ophthalmology and gene therapy.

    The letter said St. Luke's does not have the money or facilities to build such programs in the near future, but acknowledged that "eventually St. Luke's may be able to meet Baylor's requirements." St. Luke's also does not have sufficient operating rooms or bed space to meet Baylor's needs, the letter said.

    "It is certain that most of the (Methodist clinical department heads) will not abandon the programs they have worked so hard to establish at Methodist and move to St. Luke's because their patients and centers of excellence cannot be accommodated as well as they are currently at Methodist," the letter said.

    It predicted that some Baylor faculty members would become "voluntary faculty" to avoid moving to St. Luke's, while others would "leave Baylor and Methodist altogether."

    "After such an exodus, replacing these invaluable faculty members will take years, will be costly in money and prestige, and will adversely impact Baylor's financial condition, which, in turn, will seriously impact the basic sciences," the letter said.

    Only one of many physicians contacted at Methodist and St. Luke's on Thursday commented on the breakup.

    Dr. Dick Stansey, an ear, nose and throat specialist at Methodist who is a Baylor faculty member said, "It's very upsetting that a 50-year marriage ended."

    "It's going to hurt Baylor a lot more than Methodist," added Stansey, who said he was not one of the seven faculty members who signed the April 18 letter.

    As part of the new agreement, Baylor's programs with Methodist in breast cancer study and treatment, cardiovascular disease, multi-organ transplant and psychiatry will stay at Methodist.

    One of the main issues that led to the split between Baylor and Methodist is a new, one-stop adult outpatient clinic that will located between Travis and Main.

    Methodist offered to pay for the clinic, but didn't give Baylor the control it wanted. Under the new agreement, the school will foot the construction bill in exchange for that control.
     
  23. spumoni620

    spumoni620 .:good girl down:.
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    yikes. doesn't sound too good. although i don't see why this is such an alarming crisis if, in fact (as dr. traber's letter seemed to imply) baylor students would still be able to train at methodist and simply benefit from expanded opportunities at st. luke's. it seems the real crisis would occur if they cut back the programs at methodist and try to start anew at st. luke's. from what was posted previously, this doesn't seem to be the case though.

    hopefully some baylor students can comment on this?
     
  24. rjhtamu

    rjhtamu Stargazer Royale
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    The article stated few major points as to why this would be the "major crisis" predicted in this "alarmist" letter. To me, that's exactly what it appears as. I can't be absolutely sure naturally, my instincts just tell me that these are 7 influential people who suddently didn't get their way and now they're going to make a fuss about it just to get their names in the news regarding it.
     
  25. Gleevec

    Gleevec Peter, those are Cheerios
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    Yeah, I somehow doubt if there was any question on the financial situation that it wouldnt have been a unanimous trustee vote (with a couple abstentions). Plus the article made it seem as if Methodist was completely out of Baylor's picture, which it isnt-- it was more a secondary affiliate now based on the articles posted above. Anyway, interesting read regardless.
     
  26. droliver

    Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    My take on the story is that the clinical faculty feel this was imposed on them without their advice or consent by non-physician trustees. It has clearly ruffled the feathers of a great many staff. I think what's implied is that there may be a mass exodus of the faculty over this, where the sustainability of the University multi-specialty group practice would collapse.
     
  27. Gleevec

    Gleevec Peter, those are Cheerios
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    "Traber said that on April 19, Baylor's academic council -- which is made up of 50 faculty members who are department chairs, center directors and deans --unanimously supported the new affiliation agreement."

    Ah, academic politics...

    The thing is Baylor explicitly stated that it will maintain its ties to Methodist in those departments, so Im a bit confused on that. The different articles just made it seem as if the alliances were shuffling around, but that the alliances with both St Lukes and Methodist would remain, just reversed in polarity.
     
  28. Skip Intro

    Skip Intro Registered User
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