BCh vs. BS Degree

[Doxorubicin]

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Hey, everyone.

My university offers two chemistry degrees; one is an ACS-certified degree, the BCh degree, and one is a regular BS degree. The main difference is that the BS degree is designed for pre-health students. The university states that students should only pursue a BS degree is they are positive they'd like to go to professional schools rather than graduate schools.

The major difference between the degrees is the BCh degree requires three semesters of calculus, while the BS degree requires one semester of calculus. The BCh degree also requires a year of physical chemistry and a semester of inorganic chemistry, while the BS degree requires no inorganic chemistry and a semester of "Elementary Physical Chemistry."

My question is this: Would the BS degree be a waste of time? While it may be easier to get a higher GPA in the BS track than the BCh track, I don't want to limit myself either. I'm registering for classes next week and I'm debating whether to go ahead and take Calculus II, or just puruse the BS degree.

Thanks.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I'm not sure, but your school's BS option is really lacking. If you're sure you want to go to medical school and you want to keep your gpa high, then go for it. But honestly it sounds kinda watered down, especially since physical chemistry is supposed to utilize math up to calc 3 on occasion.
But yah, it may also cause trouble getting a job as well since the ACS thing is kinda necessary, though the certification I thought only requires biochem 1 and inorganic chem.

 

[Doxorubicin]

Thanks for your responses, everyone. To delineate, the BS Degree requires:

General Chemistry I/Lab
General Chemistry II/Lab
Organic Chemistry I/Lab
Organic Chemistry II/Lab
Elementary Physical Chemistry
Chemical Equilibria and Analyses
Biochemistry I
Biochemistry II
Biochemistry Lab

And the ancillary classes (ie. Cal I, Bio I/II, Physics I/II)

The BCh Degree requires

General I/II
Organic I/II
Pchem I/II
Biochem I
Inorganic
Equilibria and Analyses
Instrumental Analysis
And of course, all the requisite laboratories.

The ancillary classes are Cal I/II/III and Physics I/II


I do want to go into medicine, but I'm more concerned about the what if of not getting in.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Chemistry, in general, is a dead or dying field. It's probably worse than Biology in terms of job prospects because at least biologists can get dead-end tech jobs. Chemistry jobs don't even exist nowadays because so much chemical manufactoring has gone overseas.

Bottom line, get the degree that will give you a higher GPA and go to a professional school (eg medicine/dental/pharmacy/optical etc etc). Any BS in the sciences is essentially worthless in terms of long-term job potential.

 

[loveoforganic]

Thanks for your responses, everyone. To delineate, the BS Degree requires:

General Chemistry I/Lab
General Chemistry II/Lab
Organic Chemistry I/Lab
Organic Chemistry II/Lab
Elementary Physical Chemistry
Chemical Equilibria and Analyses
Biochemistry I
Biochemistry II
Biochemistry Lab

And the ancillary classes (ie. Cal I, Bio I/II, Physics I/II)

The BCh Degree requires

General I/II
Organic I/II
Pchem I/II
Biochem I
Inorganic
Equilibria and Analyses
Instrumental Analysis
And of course, all the requisite laboratories.

The ancillary classes are Cal I/II/III and Physics I/II


I do want to go into medicine, but I'm more concerned about the what if of not getting in.

I graduated from UA with this major and a psych major. With significant chem research, you could almost definitely still get a PhD spot somewhere if your GPA was med school competitive. However, it's definitely less competitive than an ACS degree.

Personally, I had no interest in being a chem grad student, so it was a fine option for me. My alternative (not necessarily backup) careers were high school education and clinical psychology.

Are you an incoming freshman?

 

[Doxorubicin]

I graduated from UA with this major and a psych major. With significant chem research, you could almost definitely still get a PhD spot somewhere if your GPA was med school competitive. However, it's definitely less competitive than an ACS degree.

Personally, I had no interest in being a chem grad student, so it was a fine option for me. My alternative (not necessarily backup) careers were high school education and clinical psychology.

Are you an incoming freshman?

Roll Tide! I am an incoming freshman.

 

[loveoforganic]

RTR, feel free to PM me a list of the available gen chem professors if you want a recommendation. They change it up a fair bit, so no idea who is teaching it this year. Make use of the pre-health advising - they're phenomenal at UA, particularly Mr. Hutt

 

[loveoforganic]

Oh, also, AED at UA is very active - many good (tuesday evening usually) meetings

It may be difficult to get into medical (MD) school, but if you work hard and are patient you will eventually achieve your goal and for those with their hearts set on medicine there are also alternative pathways to healthcare (DO, PA, etc.). For these reasons, reserve plans in other fields are only important if you're unsure of your interest in medicine.

I have a hard time picturing 18 year olds who are sure of their future and well informed regarding that "sureness." Sure they exist, but they're definitely a minority. Options are always good.

 

[Doxorubicin]

Oh, also, AED at UA is very active - many good (tuesday evening usually) meetings



I have a hard time picturing 18 year olds who are sure of their future and well informed regarding that "sureness." Sure they exist, but they're definitely a minority. Options are always good.

I'm not saying I am absolutely without a doubt dead-set on becoming a physician, because I haven't been to college yet. I'm willing to keep an open mind to different possibilities, but I've been fairly active in shadowing different physicians and doing hospital volunteering since freshman year through now, and I will continue shadowing. I've really enjoyed my experiences. Additionally, I've been a lurker here for a few years, whatever that counts for.

Also, I understand 15 points are required for initiaton into AED, and 1 point is gained per meeting; are non-intiates welcome to participate in AED's events?

 

[shaq93]

I just finished my first year at UA and I believe that I am going to major in Biochemistry (BCh). One of the main reasons why I chose BCh over BS is because the BCh degree doesn't require you to have a minor and I honestly cannot think of anything that I want to minor in. I cant speak much from experience, but I have talked to the head of the Chemistry department at UA along with many upperclass chem majors and am well informed about each of the degrees. I'd say if you feel that you are strong in math then go the BCh route; if not do the BS.

 

[Doxorubicin]

I just finished my first year at UA and I believe that I am going to major in Biochemistry (BCh). One of the main reasons why I chose BCh over BS is because the BCh degree doesn't require you to have a minor and I honestly cannot think of anything that I want to minor in. I cant speak much from experience, but I have talked to the head of the Chemistry department at UA along with many upperclass chem majors and am well informed about each of the degrees. I'd say if you feel that you are strong in math then go the BCh route; if not do the BS.

I could see myself minoring in biology -- I do enjoy it. I may just take Calculus II this fall, as I understand other med schools do require a second semester of calculus. I'm just not sure that I'm strong enough in math to do a third semester of calculus and a year of physical chemistry. I enjoy math, but I fear that if I'm expected to play the numbers game to get into medical school, I might end up the loser in the end.

 

[shaq93]

I could see myself minoring in biology -- I do enjoy it. I may just take Calculus II this fall, as I understand other med schools do require a second semester of calculus. I'm just not sure that I'm strong enough in math to do a third semester of calculus and a year of physical chemistry. I enjoy math, but I fear that if I'm expected to play the numbers game to get into medical school, I might end up the loser in the end.

Judge how competent you are in math after you complete calculus II. True physical chemistry may be a bitch and a huge factor which determines that depends on your professor. There is one physical chem instructor (Bakker) who aims his chemistry courses to be a little more on the tough side. He also teaches general chemistry so watch out!

 

[loveoforganic]

I'm not saying I am absolutely without a doubt dead-set on becoming a physician, because I haven't been to college yet. I'm willing to keep an open mind to different possibilities, but I've been fairly active in shadowing different physicians and doing hospital volunteering since freshman year through now, and I will continue shadowing. I've really enjoyed my experiences. Additionally, I've been a lurker here for a few years, whatever that counts for.

Also, I understand 15 points are required for initiaton into AED, and 1 point is gained per meeting; are non-intiates welcome to participate in AED's events?

Wasn't talking about you in particular, just generalities.

For AED, the lack of membership doesn't prohibit you from doing anything with them other than becoming an officer or receiving a national AED scholarship for grad school

 

[JESSFALLING]

I have a hard time picturing 18 year olds who are sure of their future and well informed regarding that "sureness." Sure they exist, but they're definitely a minority. Options are always good.

Not to step on any toes......but honestly, though, isn't chemistry a narrower field than medicine? I think that an 18 year old that chooses a chemistry major should be prepared to face the consequences of specialization.....the fact that medicine is a viable career route for chem majors is a gift from the gods....🙄

 

[loveoforganic]

Any major is a viable route to med school. I don't really get your point. By doing the BCh, you would expand your options from "medicine and some of the more lenient chem phd programs" to "medicine and all of the chem phd programs, as well as some increased job marketability." As an aside to a point you're making (that isn't really relevant to the discussion as far as I can tell) about chemistry marketability in general, chem majors are certainly more marketable than soft science and humanities majors, particularly within education.

 

[V5RED]

Any major is a viable route to med school. I don't really get your point. By doing the BCh, you would expand your options from "medicine and some of the more lenient chem phd programs" to "medicine and all of the chem phd programs, as well as some increased job marketability." As an aside to a point you're making (that isn't really relevant to the discussion as far as I can tell) about chemistry marketability in general, chem majors are certainly more marketable than soft science and humanities majors, particularly within education.

I just want to add to this that there are hardly any programs your can pursue in college that are sure things for landing a job right now.

Aside from nursing, (maybe) accounting, and (maybe) engineering, what major can someone depend on to get a job after college?

 

[CardiologyJosh]

It may be difficult to get into medical (MD) school, but if you work hard and are patient you will eventually achieve your goal and for those with their hearts set on medicine there are also alternative pathways to healthcare (DO, PA, etc.). For these reasons, reserve plans in other fields are only important if you're unsure of your interest in medicine.

The thing is, doing a PA, is not doing medicine. You have limited privileges; you will never find a PA doing a septal myomectomy, nor will you find a PA doing a bone marrow draw, nor will you find a PA writing Rx for chemotherapy agents. PA is the first line of identification, but the buck doesn't end with them, and ultimately, the physicians license under which they practice, that doctor, he/she makes the decisions, not the PA. Expectations are different for a physician and a PA. Please please please do not posit PA as a field in which one stands to achieve the same professional fulfillment as a physician - there is a MAJOR line in the sand here. I am not demeriting the good efforts of those who are PA's; vertical integration of the healthcare team is essential in today's clinical environment, everyone has their part. Please do not posit that PA is an alternative to medicine, because many people delude themselves into thinking it is a physicians career and a physicians lifestyle, and it in fact, is not the case.

If you want to be a doctor, do what you have to to get to medical school.

If you want to be a physicians assistant, do what you have to to get into a PA program.

The two are quite different.

 

[loveoforganic]

There are plenty enough commonalities between PA and medicine where I could see someone being interested in both... For example people who could go either way with being the head of the team, but have a firm interest in patient care, some hands on work, etc. I was interested in medicine, teaching, and clinical psychology because of commonalities between the fields (along with individual reasons for each). They don't have to be identical to be viable alternatives

Edit: Just to troll, if you want an identical alternative, you should pursue NP in a state where they have unsupervised practice rights 😀 They also learn how to provide rainbow infusion through osmosis, doubling the quality of care at a soon to be equal compensation!