Feb 11, 2015
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I have no idea what to do.

BCOM- Inaugural class. Over 100 Residency agreements and counting that will be/are ACGME ready, unbelievable and awesome faculty, beautiful location, NMSU affiliation, state of the art tech and building, in my region

CUSOM- Older, have board scores now, will be accredited faster, have students already in third year, also solid at creating new residency agreements...

I don't know what else to say, which program should I choose from these two? Thanks
 

user3

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Campbell has mandatory class attendance and professional dress code, two huge disadvantages. It may be worth considering Burrell if they do not require these, especially the former.
 

IslandStyle808

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It is tough to say which one really. From what the others are saying about BCOM, the dean wants it to be non-mandatory, but some other faculty are wanting to set up their classes as mandatory. BCOM won't be eligible for federal loans until two years later and I am assume CUSOM is currently eligible since it is with a long standing private university.

So I would say CUSOM would be the better choice.
 
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I have no idea what to do.

BCOM- Inaugural class. Over 100 Residency agreements and counting that will be/are ACGME ready, unbelievable and awesome faculty, beautiful location, NMSU affiliation, state of the art tech and building, in my region

CUSOM- Older, have board scores now, will be accredited faster, have students already in third year, also solid at creating new residency agreements...

I don't know what else to say, which program should I choose from these two? Thanks
I would probably go with BCOM. Its affiliated with a larger state school which will help it.
 

DrPatriot

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I would go with CUSOM. It gets rave reviews from everyone who interviews there and appears to be efficiently run. The fact that it is a more mature school is also important.

I don't really get how people are super set on attending BCOM when they don't have a building to teach in even complete! I also think that being the first class will be a huge disadvantage, many hiccups can happen with the curriculum potentially not working. After lurking on the BCOM thread I have noticed that the admissions members are telling different applicants many different things (regarding attendance, dress code etc.) which doesn't help my thoughts that the school has their stuff together. If I was in admissions I would say whatever it took to get students to commit in order to get as many of those $3k deposits as possible.
 
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CUSOM.

BCOM besides giving out early acceptances to people with 20 MCAT to get their $3000 deposits, is a for-profit entity, has no cadaver lab. Sure they have residency 'agreement' but none of them has GME. They say you are eligible for NHSC scholarship on their website but I'm sure that's not how it is as the school is new. Don't underestimate the burden of having to owe private loans!
 

BlueSlurpee

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BCOM excites me because you get to be apart of the first class. I know that not all people like that, and yes it does have a disadvantage in terms of hiccups in curriculum and taking out private loans. But BCOM has great resources to draw from, both new and the established from NMSU. Also BCOM has A LOT of political support so in terms of being a successful student there I am not to concern cause I think it will turn out fine. Also I think they have some GME in place. http://bcomnm.org/academics/clinical-partners-and-gme/#GME
How did the first class do on the boards at CUSOM? Anyways I am not trying to sell you to BCOM. Look at both critically. In the end everyone is learning the same thing.
 
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Giovanotto

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CUSOM.

BCOM besides giving out early acceptances to people with 20 MCAT to get their $3000 deposits, is a for-profit entity, has no cadaver lab. Sure they have residency 'agreement' but none of them has GME. They say you are eligible for NHSC scholarship on their website but I'm sure that's not how it is as the school is new. Don't underestimate the burden of having to owe private loans!
Just about every claim here is incorrect/illogical. You're going to make a great doctor one day, I know it!
 

DrPatriot

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Just about every claim here is incorrect/illogical. You're going to make a great doctor one day, I know it!
I have heard similar things on here and from others on the interview trail. Can you clarify what is incorrect in their statement? I'm just curious
 

Stephanopolous

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Don't let your decision be influenced by SDN. Make a list comparing the two schools on multiple areas; curriculum, cost of attendance, loan situation, clerkships, reputation of faculty, etc. This is a decision that will affect the rest of your life so take your time, do the research and make a sound decision based on that. I wish you the best of luck!
 

DrPatriot

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Don't let your decision be influenced by SDN. Make a list comparing the two schools on multiple areas; curriculum, cost of attendance, loan situation, clerkships, reputation of faculty, etc. This is a decision that will affect the rest of your life so take your time, do the research and make a sound decision based on that. I wish you the best of luck!
Solid advice. It really should be a personal decision.
 

IslandStyle808

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CUSOM.

BCOM besides giving out early acceptances to people with 20 MCAT to get their $3000 deposits, is a for-profit entity, has no cadaver lab. Sure they have residency 'agreement' but none of them has GME. They say you are eligible for NHSC scholarship on their website but I'm sure that's not how it is as the school is new. Don't underestimate the burden of having to owe private loans!
I can understand your concerns about the issue, but I will interject on some points.

1) If you wanted to get $3000 dollar deposits you would aim for those with a 30 MCAT, because you know they will drop the acceptance. They are not that malignant, but will admit I don't like the fact they are only giving you 30 days to decide.
2) I can name 3 places that are non-profit that charge $3000 dollars. So that is a non-issue, even though that is an absurd amount for any school to charge for a deposit.
3) And yes they do have GME and a 100 spots already approved. Some of which are already taking residency applications on the AOA site. This will further increase next year.
4) Private loans are for two years luckily, but it does suck. Could have gone to RVU on the first year and had private loans for four years instead of two. That would be worse.

Schools have their ups and downs and I don't like that BCOM is a for-profit school. However, they are doing some things right. Main thing is to look at all the pros and cons and come to a conclusion yourself. You won't have all the info, but you do what you can with the info you have.
 
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Just about every claim here is incorrect/illogical. You're going to make a great doctor one day, I know it!
What's "incorrect/illogical" about that post?
Are you denying bcom is for-profit?
Are you denying they are letting in ppl with mcat scores of 21 despite valid and reliable data showing they will struggle mightily in med school?
Are you denying the 3K deposit exists to weed out people who aren't serious even when the dean admits bcom is a safety school?
Are you denying federal loans are better than private loans in terms of rate and repayment options?
Are you denying those residency slots bcom "created" are in fact not ACGME accredited right now? AOA standards are less stringent than ACGME so who knows how many will survive the merger completion in 2020.

You need to take off your rose colored glasses and really evaluate bcom.
 
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0dee

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CUSOM of course.
However I don't get why some people have an issue with schools admitting some students who have below average stats. I mean if I was admitted to BCOM and I have classmates who scored 21 on the MCAT, I would not care as you make the best out of those 4 years, not your classmates. If the curriculum is set and the professors are doing their job, why would I care if my classmates are struggling or not, and I know that sounds selfish but that's the way it is.
 

Giovanotto

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I can understand your concerns about the issue, but I will interject on some points.

1) If you wanted to get $3000 dollar deposits you would aim for those with a 30 MCAT, because you know they will drop the acceptance. They are not that malignant, but will admit I don't like the fact they are only giving you 30 days to decide.
2) I can name 3 places that are non-profit that charge $3000 dollars. So that is a non-issue, even though that is an absurd amount for any school to charge for a deposit.
3) And yes they do have GME and a 100 spots already approved. Some of which are already taking residency applications on the AOA site. This will further increase next year.
4) Private loans are for two years luckily, but it does suck. Could have gone to RVU on the first year and had private loans for four years instead of two. That would be worse.

Schools have their ups and downs and I don't like that BCOM is a for-profit school. However, they are doing some things right. Main thing is to look at all the pros and cons and come to a conclusion yourself. You won't have all the info, but you do what you can with the info you have.
God bless you. I wish I had the energy to write all of this. Thank you.
 
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BCOM excites me because you get to be apart of the first class. I know that not all people like that, and yes it does have a disadvantage in terms of hiccups in curriculum and taking out private loans. But BCOM has great resources to draw from, both new and the established from NMSU. Also BCOM has A LOT of political support so in terms of being a successful student there I am not to concern cause I think it will turn out fine. Also I think they have some GME in place. http://bcomnm.org/academics/clinical-partners-and-gme/#GME
How did the first class do on the boards at CUSOM? Anyways I am not trying to sell you to BCOM. Look at both critically. In the end everyone is learning the same thing.
I would pick BCOM easily, even though its the first class, its affiliated with a larger state university, and that will do wonders for the schools legitimacy. I was looking up some from information on CUSOM and to me some things about it remind of me of LUCOM. In my own personal opinion the best DO schools seem to be those affiliated with a larger public university.
 

Giovanotto

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I would pick BCOM easily, even though its the first class, its affiliated with a larger state university, and that will do wonders for the schools legitimacy. I was looking up some from information on CUSOM and to me some things about it remind of me of LUCOM. In my own personal opinion the best DO schools seem to be those affiliated with a larger public university.
I really hope that the affiliation BCOM has with NMSU is strong. It still remains to be seen though.
 

IslandStyle808

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I really hope that the affiliation BCOM has with NMSU is strong. It still remains to be seen though.
There are still other positives as well. This includes being in a city. When I say this I don't mean recreationally, but in terms of research opportunities and shadowing experiences, since there are a greater amount of hospitals. Schools in more rural parts still have such opportunities, but much less in comparison.

Hence the reason why I said it was a tough choice.
 

DrPatriot

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I really hope that the affiliation BCOM has with NMSU is strong. It still remains to be seen though.
I guess that is what I mainly based my advice on in the first place. BCOM gives you a lot of unknowns where you have classes ahead of you at CUSOM that have paved the way and can let you know what you are getting into.

BCOM comes with a lot of "if's" and "will be's". Since it is so new we have no idea if it truly will be as great as they say it will be. The affiliation with NMSU could be super strong and really benefit the BCOM students or it could be weak and sort of worthless except for recruiting. I don't think we'll know for a couple of years. I hope they are correct and everything goes smoothly and the school becomes an excellent addition for Southwestern osteopathic education.

Bottom line is if I am betting ~$300k and my future career on a school I'm going to want to know as much as possible about what I'm getting into. Out of these two options I would pick CUSOM.

OP are these the only two schools you are considering or do you have other options and these are the only two that you have acceptances to at this time?
 

Giovanotto

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There are still other positives as well. This includes being in a city. When I say this I don't mean recreationally, but in terms of research opportunities and shadowing experiences, since there are a greater amount of hospitals. Schools in more rural parts still have such opportunities, but much less in comparison.

Hence the reason why I said it was a tough choice.
This is the unique scenario though where BCOM, although is affiliated with a large public state school, is not really in what I would call a city. Las Cruces is fairly small, but maybe I didn't explore enough while I was there.

Yes to research though.

My take away during my visit there was that its affiliation with NMSU will allow BCOM students to use some of their facilities and housing/food options, but not much else, what else would there be anyways? I don't include research because that is a more complicated process.

Furthermore, BCOM is affiliated with, but not part of, a large public state school. It is not in the same scenario as MSUCOM, for example.
 
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IslandStyle808

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This is the unique scenario though where BCOM, although is affiliated with a large public state school, is not really in what I would call a city. Las Cruces is fairly small, but maybe I didn't explore enough while I was there.

Yes to research though.

My take away during my visit there was that its affiliation with NMSU will allow BCOM students to use some of their facilities and housing/food options, but not much else, what else would there be anyways? I don't include research because that is a more complicated process.

Furthermore, BCOM is affiliated with, but not part of, a large public state school. It is not in the same scenario as MSUCOM, for example.
Yep your right MSUCOM is under MSU and BCOM is just a partnership with NMSU. Thus we can't tell how exactly how much access to research will students have. Las Cruces has a population of over 100,000 so I believe it is a city. I have interviewed in rural schools in the past and didn't see much in terms of research opportunities or possible shadowing experiences (these are populations of 10,000 or less).
 

IsWhat

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So after interviewing at three schools thus far (bcom included) - I can say pretty confidently BCOM is going to be a powerhouse DO program. It's only a matter of time. They are going to require research, because they have the resources to do so. They are also using a known curriculum which produces the highest board scores in the country. The Dean is pushing specialization and they have the GME infrastructure in New Mexico to give BCOM students a leg-up at any specialty they want.

Don't let SDN and its propensity to over exaggerate the cons of everything associated with 'new' sway you. If you are even slightly interested in a specialty - BCOM should be your choice, and it's not even close IMO.
 

Gandyy

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Since I have not interviewed at BCOM, I cannot say, but at first glance I would always choose the more established school over the newer one. Its just common sense.

Again thats what I would do considering the private loan issue, and the fact that it is a new DO school.
 

ChrisMack390

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I personally would be very hesitant to be one of the very first students at a new school. Other's don't agree, but to me that has to be at least slightly a gamble.

At the same time, I would much prefer to live in the Southwest over the middle of North Carolina.

Both of these are just me though. As someone said - make a list of your pros and cons, which should help.
 

IsWhat

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I understand the hesitation with the new school and all. But if you are dating a beautiful woman - you don't need to wait for them to get signed by Victoria's Secret before you know what you have. Same thing applies with BCOM. It simply is not hard to see the trajectory of this school.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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Personally I would attend CUSOM. It is a very good school and I personally found them to be very invested in providing a top tier education. I obviously disliked their totalitarian policies on dress and attendance though. But I can genuinely say that they at least know what they're doing and i'd feel safer there without a doubt.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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I understand the hesitation with the new school and all. But if you are dating a beautiful woman - you don't need to wait for them to get signed by Victoria's Secret before you know what you have. Same thing applies with BCOM. It simply is not hard to see the trajectory of this school.

I think comparing a school to a woman is problematic on many levels and I recommend we all avoid elaborating on this analogy for the sake of keeping this thread on topic.
 

Gandyy

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I think comparing a school to a woman is problematic on many levels and I recommend we all avoid elaborating on this analogy for the sake of keeping this thread on topic.
^^^

I was going to say something along the lines of how ridiculous that analogy was.
 

QueenJames

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Just to reiterate a little bit from what I was told during my 2 faculty interview - They will give you all the tools you need to succeed. If you want to be a brain surgeon in Hong Kong or do something even more "exotic" (for lack of a better term), you CAN do it. This school wants you to succeed. A MAJORITY of every US medical school does (MD and DO). This is not different than any other program. BUT it is UP TO YOU to work with what they have and pave your own route. Just because BCOM has these spots lined up DOES NOT mean you will waltz right in. BUT you CAN and WILL make an effort to audition and set up your own network once you lay the groundwork down. Like I've said, it depends on how bad YOU WANT IT. If you are COMFORTABLE and SEE YOURSELF being an excellent student at BCOM, then go for it! IF not, then wait and see what other options you have. You have to go with your gut sometimes!
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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Just to reiterate a little bit from what I was told during my 2 faculty interview - They will give you all the tools you need to succeed. If you want to be a brain surgeon in Hong Kong or do something even more "exotic" (for lack of a better term), you CAN do it. This school wants you to succeed. A MAJORITY of every US medical school does (MD and DO). This is not different than any other program. BUT it is UP TO YOU to work with what they have and pave your own route. Just because BCOM has these spots lined up DOES NOT mean you will waltz right in. BUT you CAN and WILL make an effort to audition and set up your own network once you lay the groundwork down. Like I've said, it depends on how bad YOU WANT IT. If you are COMFORTABLE and SEE YOURSELF being an excellent student at BCOM, then go for it! IF not, then wait and see what other options you have. You have to go with your gut sometimes!
Lets be honest and acknowledge that there significant special issues associated with attending a new medical school class. It's not an ideal position to be in because you're always working against a system that has not tested yet. I mean for example, my class that is the second year in the new curriculum of my school is scoring much higher than last year's class who was the first to test the new curriculum.
 

QueenJames

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Lets be honest and acknowledge that there significant special issues associated with attending a new medical school class. It's not an ideal position to be in because you're always working against a system that has not tested yet. I mean for example, my class that is the second year in the new curriculum of my school is scoring much higher than last year's class who was the first to test the new curriculum.
Oh yes of course. I certainly agree with you. My reply was more for the long run of the actual program. They are pulling faculty from developed solid programs (RVUCOM, Touro Nevada, etc.). They will teach you for boards and have board prep organized too. I just meant say that they will give you tools (they may be a little shoddy at times) but it's not like the school won't be successful eventually. I'm sure they will be very receptive to feedback and make changes slowly for the students' best interest!
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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Oh yes of course. I certainly agree with you. My reply was more for the long run of the actual program. They are pulling faculty from developed solid programs (RVUCOM, Touro Nevada, etc.). They will teach you for boards and have board prep organized too. I just meant say that they will give you tools (they may be a little shoddy at times) but it's not like the school won't be successful eventually. I'm sure they will be very receptive to feedback and make changes slowly for the students' best interest!
The question isn't about whether it won't be successful. Truth is that once a DO school is approved as long as there is money to fund it, it will succeed. The issue is whether or not being in the first class is a choice the OP should make. I personally attend one of the oldest DO schools in the nations with some of the best faculty, best resources, and high caliber students. When we overhauled our curriculum last year our current MS2 class struggled enormously with it. Without insight from second years or a faculty who have previously worked through it already they found themselves in the dark about how to study certain things or what to do when for certain classes. This lead to higher than usual remediation rates for certain classes to the ire of many students. Even for us we're still feeling some of the changes and modifications as the second class to go through the new curriculum.

My point is that being in the circumstances of our current ms2 class is not fun and it is not something I recommend because it does put more stress on you. And the last thing you need as a med student is more stress.

Hence why in the end I still recommend CUSOM.
 

Giovanotto

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There are far more cons than pros with attending a new school. If someone would like to argue otherwise, be my guest. I don't care how the class after me would do, because if anything if they do better that is only more competition for me. I want to join a program that will offer me the best possible outcome. Everything else is secondary, including the school's reputation (I understand this is conflicting with respect to residency).

Despite that, people will do what they can with the resources/acceptances they have. I don't doubt BCOM will be a success, I just don't want to be a guinea pig. There needs to be a level of trust established first and that takes time. So no matter what, the first class will have a tough time.
 
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Personally I would attend CUSOM. It is a very good school and I personally found them to be very invested in providing a top tier education. I obviously disliked their totalitarian policies on dress and attendance though. But I can genuinely say that they at least know what they're doing and i'd feel safer there without a doubt.
Any school with any kind of religious affiliation is going to have some kind of "totalitarian" policies, that is one of reasons its best to go to a school affiliated with a state university.
 

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I was criticizing LECOM because of their PBL before starting med school, but after finishing MS1, I think they almost got it right regarding the first 2-year of med school. Med students don't need a structured classroom... These are not your typical college students; these are very motivated people that can learn stuff on their own. I think they could have done it in a different way... No PBL groups... Just let every single student be on their own and have a class before every exam for students who have questions and doubts. Attending lectures in general in med school is a waste... especially for schools like mine that only have shelf exams.

I heard LECOM has one of the highest passing rate and average step1, so they must be doing something right...

I met a LECOM grad this summer and she told me that she felt like she had more time for herself in med school than she had in undergrad... She also told me she has less than 170k in student loan.

Should start doing what LECOM is doing so they can give student a break in tuition...
 
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Dr. Death

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No cadaver labs? Are they planning on putting some in or are they just not going to have them? That just seems ridiculous. My crappy undergrad school has 2 cadaver labs for hell sake.
 
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I was criticizing LECOM because of their PBL before starting med school, but after finishing MS1, I think they almost got it right regarding the first 2-year of med school. Med students don't need a structured classroom... These are not your typical college students; these are very motivated people that can learn stuff on their own. I think they could have done it in a different way... No PBL groups... Just let every single student be on their own and have a class before every exam for students who have questions and doubts. Attending lectures in general in med school is a waste... especially for schools like mine that only have shelf exams.

I heard LECOM has one of the highest passing rate and average step1, so they must be doing something right...

I met a LECOM grad this summer and she told me that she felt like she had more time for herself in med school than she had in undergrad... She also told me she has less than 170k in student loan.

Should start doing what LECOM is doing so they can give student a break in tuition...
Medical school is not 2 years of school , its 4 years, and I really do not care much for PBL, people who are not from science backgrounds are at a severe disadvantage in such a curriculum. Also its the clinical education at many DO schools that I find to be a major issue, now you have a situation where there are so many schools but not enough places to clinically train their students, so these schools wind up shuffling their students all around the place, often these students wind up traveling around the country during their final two years of school, and its not by choice.

I tend to like schools that have affiliations with larger state universities because its helps their legitimacy as academic institutions. BCOM while its a brand new school will do well in the long run because of this affiliation. And from the looks of it, they are sparing no expense in making sure the school has first class state of the art facilities for its students.
 
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Medical school is not 2 years of school , its 4 years, and I really do not care much for PBL, people who are not from science backgrounds are at a severe disadvantage in such a curriculum. Also its the clinical education at many DO schools that I find to be a major issue, now you have a situation where there are so many schools but not enough places to clinically train their students, so these schools wind up shuffling their students all around the place, often these students wind up traveling around the country during their final two years of school, and its not by choice.

I tend to like schools that have affiliations with larger state universities because its helps their legitimacy as academic institutions. BCOM while its a brand new school will do well in the long run because of this affiliation. And from the looks of it, they are sparing no expense in making sure the school has first class state of the art facilities for its students.
whats your opinion of VCOM-VC? I only ask because no one really seems to tote it as a powerhouse or a school with potential around here. VCOM is associated with VTech I believe.
 
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whats your opinion of VCOM-VC? I only ask because no one really seems to tote it as a powerhouse or a school with potential around here. VCOM is associated with VTech I believe.
I would say it would be a good school because of that as well. As I said, schools associated with larger public universities tend to be more legitimate.
 
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