BCOM vs CUSOM

[mathnerd88]

BCOM is named after Dan Burrell, a very wealthy businessman in New Mexico, I was trying to look up his net worth, but the guy is very rich, anyway, the thing that makes me not recommend schools like CUSOM and LUCOM are their ties to religion, people say CUSOM is not religious but I read their mission statement and religious references are in the mission statement. I believe universities should be secular institutions and should be places where religion is a neutral issue, we live in a time where people have many different faiths and beliefs, and also many people who do not hold on to any particular beliefs so I believe such institutions have more credibility in my eyes when they have no such affiliation.

This is not saying I am against religion, because I am not, I just believe that religion should remain separate from certain entities, and in particular educational and business entities, and certainly the government as well.

What really matters in medical school are rotations. Everyone will get a good education and it is how you make it. In the end, we pass boards and go onto residencies.

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[Seth Joo]

What really matters in medical school are rotations. Everyone will get a good education and it is how you make it. In the end, we pass boards and go onto residencies.

Well many DO schools fall short in this area, its only the more established schools that have better quality rotations or make an sincere attempt that their students get a good quality clinical education.

Compared to DO schools, there are a lot more state fund public MD schools, I myself went to a private secular university for my undergraduate studies, but I have a very high opinion of state funded medical schools. And strongly believe that universities should be secular.

 

[W19]

@Seth Joo What's your take on Loma Linda?

 

[mathnerd88]

Well many DO schools fall short in this area, its only the more established schools that have better quality rotations or make an sincere attempt that their students get a good quality clinical education.

Compared to DO schools, there are a lot more state fund public MD schools, I myself went to a private secular university for my undergraduate studies, but I have a very high opinion of state funded medical schools. And strongly believe that universities should be secular.

Upon asking students at CUSOM, they seem to have solid rotation sites. Almost every student gets their top pick in rotation sites, and only a few get their second choice.

It sounds like it is much better than what LECOM has.

 

[Seth Joo]

Upon asking students at CUSOM, they seem to have solid rotation sites. Almost every student gets their top pick in rotation sites, and only a few get their second choice.

It sounds like it is much better than what LECOM has.

LECOM has the biggest student population of any medical school in the US, they have three large campuses, one in Erie, one in Seton Hill, and one in Bradenton, I have a friend who turned down AZCOM because of its high price tag to go to the one in Erie. He got a long list of clinical sites for his third and fourth year rotations, some schools have their act together when it comes to clinical training, and others do not, maybe I am being too hard on CUSOM, who knows. Its the cheapest DO school, but I guess you get what you pay for in the end.

BCOM is a brand new school so we really do not know what is going to happen, but from the looks of things it is off to an auspicious start, its affiliated with a large state school, it has a very large cash infusion from a wealthy benefactor, and I think its going to go places.

 

[meliora27]

My feeling about BCOM's relationship NMSU at least at this point is hesitant at best.

Here's what we know:

NMSU is BCOM's landlord. BCOM will pay NMSU in excess of $200K/yr for the space.

BCOM students will pay a student activities fee that gives them access to BCOM resources (gym, etc)

Here's what I'm wondering:

BCOM has stated that some NMSU faculty may have a role at their (BCOM) school. But is NMSU going to grant appointments to the BCOM faculty?

What is the end game??

Seems like a sweet gig for NMSU. They get $200K a year in rent and get to collect some more fees for activities and what not.

In the future, if they have joint degrees with NMSU, then it's just found tuition dollars.

 

[W19]

From what I have read, I think BCOM is a very promising school...

 

[Seth Joo]

From what I have read, I think BCOM is a very promising school...

In a few years it will become a good school, Rome did not get built in a day.

 

[ninjaman22]

I usually don't post here, but I have seen some misinformation earlier in the thread about CUSOM. I just wanted to clarify a few things for someone who is reading this post in the future hopefully. Yes, Campbell University is religiously affiliated however, the medical school itself do not do anything out of the ordinary religion wise. The only religious policy at CUSOM I see is having no alcohol at school related activities or on campus. Almost no one has a problem with that policy. You can ask any of the current students who go here if they ever felt religion was a part of the school. I guarantee, most of them would say no. The school is very open minded with students from all over the country and from very different backgrounds. Don't make your decision to not go to CUSOM based on some guy's (who is not a student here) opinion.

Also, if you are deciding between the BCOM and CUSOM: which school has their rotations set up? which school has students already on rotations? which school has a 94% passing rate on the COMLEX and 100% passing rate on the USMLE so far? Which school has already residency positions available for internal medicine, emergency medicine, family medicine, dermatology, ob/gyn, and is in the process of opening general surgery residency at the hospitals you are going to be rotating in? These are some of the important things I would look at and not the fact that undergrad campus has a religious affiliation.

Also this was published couple of months ago about the experience of a girl (who is very liberal and Atheist) at CUSOM. Give it a read and you will understand what I was talking about.

http://thedo.osteopathic.org/2015/03/im-an-atheist-and-a-student-at-a-christian-medical-school/

 

[skeletor06]

I'm an MS-1 at CUSOM, and I'd have to agree with @ninjaman22 here. They had the Dean of the Divinity School speak at Convocation (which wasn't mandatory), and sure, there are Christian groups on campus. But there are going to be those anywhere. Some of the students have a Bible study; again, you'd be hard-pressed not to find that anywhere. I'm not religious, and I know for a fact we have many people of differing faiths in our class. Several of them are close friends of mine, and none of them have said they felt the least bit uncomfortable.

To be honest, I haven't set foot on main campus in 7 weeks except to grab some food and visit the bookstore. The medical school is a half-mile from the main university. So you're not going to be dealing with any religious aspect that might be present on main campus.

Also, check out the law program and other grad programs the Campbell has; they're legit. The law program was the first in NC to have a 100% first-time bar passage rate, and has had higher rates than Duke and UNC for a long while. Not saying that this correlates into the quality of the medical school, but it speaks to the ability of the university to build graduate programs.

Plus, our third-years did very well on their boards, and with the revamping of the curriculum that has occurred since then I don't see any reason why that won't stay the same, or increase.

If anyone has any questions about CUSOM and wants some no-bull info, PM me, or speak up in the CUSOM 2015 application thread. There are some other students, including MS-2's and 3's in there.

 

[skeletor06]

@ninjaman22 : I heard some talk about general surgery spots opening up sometime, but I'm not sure where I heard it, or if there's any new info. Have you heard anything concrete about that, or any other residencies? I heard other rumors a while ago that they were looking at opening some pediatric residency slots; it would be great if all of that was really coming down the pipeline.

Also: this was posted by one of my classmates a few days ago in the CUSOM-specific thread, talking about his experience here so far. It's worth a read, and I wholeheartedly agree with him.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...hread-2015-2016.1134392/page-15#post-16912361

 

[Seth Joo]

I'm an MS-1 at CUSOM, and I'd have to agree with @ninjaman22 here. They had the Dean of the Divinity School speak at Convocation (which wasn't mandatory), and sure, there are Christian groups on campus. But there are going to be those anywhere. Some of the students have a Bible study; again, you'd be hard-pressed not to find that anywhere. I'm not religious, and I know for a fact we have many people of differing faiths in our class. Several of them are close friends of mine, and none of them have said they felt the least bit uncomfortable.

To be honest, I haven't set foot on main campus in 7 weeks except to grab some food and visit the bookstore. The medical school is a half-mile from the main university. So you're not going to be dealing with any religious aspect that might be present on main campus.

Also, check out the law program and other grad programs the Campbell has; they're legit. The law program was the first in NC to have a 100% first-time bar passage rate, and has had higher rates than Duke and UNC for a long while. Not saying that this correlates into the quality of the medical school, but it speaks to the ability of the university to build graduate programs.

Plus, our third-years did very well on their boards, and with the revamping of the curriculum that has occurred since then I don't see any reason why that won't stay the same, or increase.

If anyone has any questions about CUSOM and wants some no-bull info, PM me, or speak up in the CUSOM 2015 application thread. There are some other students, including MS-2's and 3's in there.

I never even heard of Campbell, Duke however is one of the best universities in America, Duke has an international reputation. They are so good, they opened a branch campus of their medical school in Singapore.

 

[skeletor06]

I never even heard of Campbell, Duke however is one of the best universities in America, Duke has an international reputation. They are so good, they opened a branch campus of their medical school in Singapore.

That's wonderful. However, while I would agree with you that Duke is a great institution, that does not negate the information I provided. Campbell Law does, in fact, have the highest bar passage rate for NC over the past 25 years. It also has the record for being the first law school in NC to have 100% first-time bar passage rate (1994).

http://www.pr.com/press-release/579442

If you're going to disagree with me, that's cool. But you could at least disagree with my actual statement. All you did was provide a straw-man argument that because Duke is a great university, my claim is invalid.

You said you've never heard of Campbell. To be honest, I hadn't either, before I applied. But so what? I would argue that many people, even in medicine, will never have heard of AZCOM either. Does that mean your school isn't worth going it?

Oh, and our inaugural class matched your 2013 class Board passage rate (which was the most recent data on your website). So we must be doing something right.

 

[jaguar33]

@ninjaman22 : I heard some talk about general surgery spots opening up sometime, but I'm not sure where I heard it, or if there's any new info. Have you heard anything concrete about that, or any other residencies? I heard other rumors a while ago that they were looking at opening some pediatric residency slots; it would be great if all of that was really coming down the pipeline.

Also: this was posted by one of my classmates a few days ago in the CUSOM-specific thread, talking about his experience here so far. It's worth a read, and I wholeheartedly agree with him.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...hread-2015-2016.1134392/page-15#post-16912361

One of our core rotation sites, Cape Fear Valley Medical Center has a bunch of programs starting/started, including pediatrics. A General surgery residency is in development there also. Its a 650+ bed trama hospital.

http://www.omnee.net/member_facilities/cape-fear-valley-medical-center/

 

[Seth Joo]

That's wonderful. However, while I would agree with you that Duke is a great institution, that does not negate the information I provided. Campbell Law does, in fact, have the highest bar passage rate for NC over the past 25 years. It also has the record for being the first law school in NC to have 100% first-time bar passage rate (1994).

http://www.pr.com/press-release/579442

If you're going to disagree with me, that's cool. But you could at least disagree with my actual statement. All you did was provide a straw-man argument that because Duke is a great university, my claim is invalid.

You said you've never heard of Campbell. To be honest, I hadn't either, before I applied. But so what? I would argue that many people, even in medicine, will never have heard of AZCOM either. Does that mean your school isn't worth going it?

Oh, and our inaugural class matched your 2013 class Board passage rate (which was the most recent data on your website). So we must be doing something right.

I am still not getting why your university law students passing the bar exam better than Duke's has any bearing on your Osteopathic Medical school.

 

[jaguar33]

I am still not getting why your university law students passing the bar exam better than Duke's has any bearing on your Osteopathic Medical school.

I think they were pointing out that Campbell isn't a random new stand alone DO school made for the sole purpose of making money. It is part of an existing University that has been around for over a century and is regionally respected. They were also pointing out that our parent school has a good track record with starting professional schools. For example, our pharmacy program ranks 56th in the US. In addition the medical school received its first NIH funded grant for cancer research last year. Two of our 5 rotation locations are in large trauma centers, with one of the sites being shared with Duke and UNC medical students and residents.

http://wakemedvoices.org/2015/07/wa...ell-university-osteopathic-medicine-students/

While Campbell obviously isnt perfect, I think it is pretty absurd for you to say that for-profit stand alone school is any better. Especially since BCOM has to pay a public school for rent and use the facilities. I don't see that as an advantage. What motive would NMSU have to make BCOM a great school/research institution?

 

[Seth Joo]

I think they were pointing out that Campbell isn't a random new stand alone DO school made for the sole purpose of making money. It is part of an existing University that has been around for over a century and is regionally respected. They were also pointing out that our parent school has a good track record with starting professional schools. For example, our pharmacy program ranks 56th in the US. In addition the medical school received its first NIH funded grant for cancer research last year. Two of our 5 rotation locations are in large trauma centers, with one of the sites being shared with Duke and UNC medical students and residents.

While Campbell obviously isnt perfect, I think it is pretty absurd for you to say that for-profit stand alone school is any better. Especially since BCOM has to pay a public school for rent and use the facilities. I don't see that as an advantage. What motive would NMSU have to make BCOM a great school/research institution?

Well we have to wait and see, I was looking up some information on Campbell, I guess I prejudged the school a bit, trying to lump it with Liberty University.

As far as BCOM, I think a school affiliated with a larger public university will do well in the long run, case in point is NYCOM which is a private school affiliated with a larger state university.

 

[jaguar33]

Well we have to wait and see, I was looking up some information on Campbell, I guess I prejudged the school a bit, trying to lump it with Liberty University.

As far as BCOM, I think a school affiliated with a larger public university will do well in the long run, case in point is NYCOM which is a private school affiliated with a larger state university.

You are mistaken with NYCOM. It's a school of NY Institute of Technology (NYIT). The real name of the medical school is "New York Institute of Technology School of Osteopathic Medicine." NYIT has an invested interested in the school since it is the parent college. In contrast, BCOM just pays rent to be on the same campus as the school. Therefore NMSU has no invested interest in the school's success. The only other medical school that has a similar relationship is the new VCOM on the Auburn campus. I can only assume that this new type of private-public relationship is just a marketing tactic. It wouldnt even be legal for the public state university to use its resources on a private for-profit institution. Therefore, it will be a 1 way street of BCOM paying for rent and use of facilities.

http://www.nyit.edu/index.php/medicine/announcements/renames_ceremony_dec_5

 

[RurouniKarly]

You are mistaken with NYCOM. It's a school of NY Institute of Technology (NYIT). The real name of the medical school is "New York Institute of Technology School of Osteopathic Medicine." NYIT has an invested interested in the school since it is the parent college. In contrast, BCOM just pays rent to be on the same campus as the school. Therefore NMSU has no invested interest in the school's success. The only other medical school that has a similar relationship is the new VCOM on the Auburn campus. I can only assume that this new type of private-public relationship is just a marketing tactic. It wouldnt even be legal for the public state university to use its resources on a private for-profit institution. Therefore, it will be a 1 way street of BCOM paying for rent and use of facilities.

http://www.nyit.edu/index.php/medicine/announcements/renames_ceremony_dec_5

BCOM was structured as a nonprofit in the early days of the planning process, but there were a variety of factors that made for profit status a more viable path to pursue. First, New Mexico is already experiencing a physician shortage in which 32 of its 33 counties are classified as medically underserved. New Mexico also has the highest number of primary care doctors over age 60 in the U.S. (33%). So the state is staring down the barrel of an extreme impending physician shortage and are desperate for way to mitigate it. There is only one medical school in the entire state (an MD school at UNM) which has proved insufficient for providing the number of doctors that the state needs. The development of the school had already been put in motion before a funding source for the school was finalized, so in the beginning New Mexico College of Osteopathic Medicine (the generic name of the school while funders were being courted) was in negotiations with 3 different established DO schools interested in opening a new branch and 2 private entities interested in funding a de novo school. The school ultimately chose to go with the Burrell family for funding, and the benefits of this are that they have more independence as a school, the for profit status made it significantly easier and faster to open the school (a big factor considering NM is in a race against time), and the private funding source means that the MD school at UNM is willing to collaborate with the new school rather than challenging them over concerns of funding allocations from the state.

As for what NMSU gets from hosting BCOM, New Mexico is trying to institute pipeline programs in their school systems to garner interest in healthcare education in New Mexico residents. The addition of a medical school on campus means that NMSU can expand their healthcare programs and attract more students for this purpose. By having an affiliation, BCOM gets access to NMSU's research park, student services, and prestige, and NMSU gets a huge boost in it's ability to attract health science students and expand that department. NMSU also gets a nice bump in respectability and reputation by hosting a medical school.

 

[jaguar33]

BCOM was structured as a nonprofit in the early days of the planning process, but there were a variety of factors that made for profit status a more viable path to pursue. First, New Mexico is already experiencing a physician shortage in which 32 of its 33 counties are classified as medically underserved. New Mexico also has the highest number of primary care doctors over age 60 in the U.S. (33%). So the state is staring down the barrel of an extreme impending physician shortage and are desperate for way to mitigate it. There is only one medical school in the entire state (an MD school at UNM) which has proved insufficient for providing the number of doctors that the state needs. The development of the school had already been put in motion before a funding source for the school was finalized, so in the beginning New Mexico College of Osteopathic Medicine (the generic name of the school while funders were being courted) was in negotiations with 3 different established DO schools interested in opening a new branch and 2 private entities interested in funding a de novo school. The school ultimately chose to go with the Burrell family for funding, and the benefits of this are that they have more independence as a school, the for profit status made it significantly easier and faster to open the school (a big factor considering NM is in a race against time), and the private funding source means that the MD school at UNM is willing to collaborate with the new school rather than challenging them over concerns of funding allocations from the state.

As for what NMSU gets from hosting BCOM, New Mexico is trying to institute pipeline programs in their school systems to garner interest in healthcare education in New Mexico residents. The addition of a medical school on campus means that NMSU can expand their healthcare programs and attract more students for this purpose. By having an affiliation, BCOM gets access to NMSU's research park, student services, and prestige, and NMSU gets a huge boost in it's ability to attract health science students and expand that department. NMSU also gets a nice bump in respectability and reputation by hosting a medical school.

I don't mean to bash BCOM, but I don't understand where everyone is getting the prestige thing from. BCOM is only mentioned 1 time on NMSU's website and it explicitly states BCOM is separate. It certainly makes no mention of a research relationship. NMSU obviously doesn't feel like they will benefit much by advertising their relationship. In fact NMSU makes it clear that the relationship is purely financial and a landlord type relationship:

"Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine at New Mexico State University will be a freestanding, privately funded, separately licensed and independently operated entity. No taxpayer dollars will go toward its operation"

No mention of research park access.....

"BCOM will also provide payment to NMSU for its students to participate and utilize the same campus services as NMSU students, such as campus housing, NMSU’s student activity center and admission to NMSU athletic events."

Source: http://newscenter.nmsu.edu/Articles...dicine-to-open-at-new-mexico-state-university

 

[youngDOve]

I don't mean to bash BCOM, but I don't understand where everyone is getting the prestige thing from. BCOM is only mentioned 1 time on NMSU's website and it explicitly states BCOM is separate. It certainly makes no mention of a research relationship. NMSU obviously doesn't feel like they will benefit much by advertising their relationship. In fact NMSU makes it clear that the relationship is purely financial and a landlord type relationship:

"Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine at New Mexico State University will be a freestanding, privately funded, separately licensed and independently operated entity. No taxpayer dollars will go toward its operation"

No mention of research park access.....

"BCOM will also provide payment to NMSU for its students to participate and utilize the same campus services as NMSU students, such as campus housing, NMSU’s student activity center and admission to NMSU athletic events."

Source: http://newscenter.nmsu.edu/Articles...dicine-to-open-at-new-mexico-state-university

Check out the research section on this link
http://bcomnm.com/pdf/BCOMFactSheet3-9-15-web.pdf

I have seen many inconstant remarks by BCOM regarding Their association with NMSU, I guess we will not fully know how much of partnership they have untill the first class can speak on that behalf.

Edit: I also noticed many of the sources dating back to 2014 that I have read made it clear that BCOM is just renting out land from NMSU..more of the newer articles I have read dating to this year and even the last few months have shifted in the way they associated BCOM with NMSU and it also looks like almost they are becoming one (except for that disclaimer on every BCOM email they send out) I think under the table theres more to this affilation because it's hard to say they are not affiliated with NMSU when students get their housing, meal plan, gym, library, everything a NMSU student gets. Heck, even NMSU has their name on the med school. I guess only time will tell

 

[skeletor06]

Well we have to wait and see, I was looking up some information on Campbell, I guess I prejudged the school a bit, trying to lump it with Liberty University.

As far as BCOM, I think a school affiliated with a larger public university will do well in the long run, case in point is NYCOM which is a private school affiliated with a larger state university.

While I think you prejudged way more than a bit, at least you were willing to do some research and realize your mistake. And @ninjaman22 was right, I was basically saying that Campbell has a great track record with grad programs. It was one of the big reasons I felt comfortable matriculating to a newer school, in fact. Ask anyone on SDN, and I can pretty much guarantee that you'll find out that CUSOM and LUCOM are nothing alike. There was a thread about that exact question a couple of days ago, in fact. Everyone there, including Adcoms, agreed on that point:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/cusom-vs-lucom.1159051/

Edit: I can see you were already on that thread, and you stated yourself that you didn't know much about CUSOM. So, good job with all of the very inflammatory statements you made in this thread, about a school you admit you know nothing about. Well-played.

 

[RurouniKarly]

I don't mean to bash BCOM, but I don't understand where everyone is getting the prestige thing from. BCOM is only mentioned 1 time on NMSU's website and it explicitly states BCOM is separate. It certainly makes no mention of a research relationship. NMSU obviously doesn't feel like they will benefit much by advertising their relationship. In fact NMSU makes it clear that the relationship is purely financial and a landlord type relationship:

"Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine at New Mexico State University will be a freestanding, privately funded, separately licensed and independently operated entity. No taxpayer dollars will go toward its operation"

No mention of research park access.....

"BCOM will also provide payment to NMSU for its students to participate and utilize the same campus services as NMSU students, such as campus housing, NMSU’s student activity center and admission to NMSU athletic events."

Source: http://newscenter.nmsu.edu/Articles...dicine-to-open-at-new-mexico-state-university

The mutual benefits will not be instantaneous, so it's a little ridiculous to base static opinions on the benefits of hosting a medical school on press releases made before BCOM has even opened. If you read the feasibility report, you will find all the information about why BCOM is set up the way it is and what BCOM will be getting from NMSU (including research park access and all student services). New Mexico is looking to grow it's health education infrastructure, but that doesn't happen overnight. With something like this no one in state government or on the board of NMSU is expecting instant gratification, but it's obvious that the benefits of having ties with a medical school will only increase over time. I don't think there's a single school in the country associated with a medical school that has not benefited from having the med school. When NMSU agreed to be affiliated with the new medical school I can almost guarantee they didn't do it because they thought they were going to get an instant surge in prestige (although now there are undoubtedly more people who have heard of NMSU that otherwise would be unaware of its existence), but rather that they understand that having the medical school will be very advantageous for them in an increasing manner as they work to expand their health science department.

Seriously, read the feasibility report. It's 90 pages of great information that will give you a much better picture of BCOM's relationship with NMSU and New Mexico at large.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

Just saying...campbell is attached to Campbell University which is one of the biggest Uni's in Carolina. According to the accrediting body, they have the highest accreditation status (level 6) due to their large undergrad size and their availability of grad programs. The only other schools in the state that have that are Duke and UNC....

 

[deleted646902]

Anybody want to give a stab between attending CUSOM and KCOM?

 

[just_SAIYAN]

Anybody want to give a stab between attending CUSOM and KCOM?

I interviewed and was accepted at both schools, based on that and talking to current students between the 2 I would probably go KCOM. Both schools are in a small town cusom is in nowheresville population is like 1,000 but Raleigh is 40 mins away and there's a smaller town about 20 mins in between Raleigh and the school that a lot of students live at. NC is a nice area very scenic and green, the beach is a 2 hour drive away. The school is new with great facilities and welcoming staff/faculty. I personally think cusom is one of the more promising DO schools that has opened in the last 5 or so years. Cons of cusom are mandatory attendance, location, and dress code.

KCOM not as nice of facilities as cusom (older vibe) but that really doesn't matter at all, other than that KCOM is in a small (but decent little town), nearest bigger cities are an hour or 2 away so you probably won't be getting away a whole lot. Curriculum is geared towards boards, no mandatory attendance or dress code, heavily integrate ultrasound into curriculum. Cons: location and weather.

I think both are solid schools but I like the freedom you can have at KCOM. Also KCOM has a proven track record and great reputation and that also goes a long way. Only reason I would go to CUSOM over KCOM is if I REALLY wanted to be close to a big city and found comfort in NC (close to family etc, significant other etc)

KCOM also has a pretty sweet gym on campus with solid weight room, bball court, rock wall, hot tub. Just throwing that out there.

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