Before you screw yourself

[sirus_virus]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=195799

After reading the above thread I thought it might be a good idea to bring up a few mistakes that we should not make with this medical education thing. As you might have noticed most of the reasons why the dis-satisfied people are "staying" in the field is due to a lack of alternatives, huge debt, and maybe outright confusion. We all know about the whole "don't do it for the money" and "have realistic expectations" advice, but here are a few extra pieces that I think might be usefull.

Shadowing
This is not a joke? when you shadow don't do it simply because you want to fulfill some medschool requirement. Make sure you are actually investigating the profession. This is the best way to learn about the profession. Don't be that fool whose main picture of medicine comes from Scrubs, House or Grey's anatomy(all of which are probably responsible for increased medschool applications amidst declining physician job satisfaction). Try to choose a variety of specialists and mix in a few resident doctors.Besides geeky medical questions, make sure you ask some real-life questions e.g economics and lifestyle questions. Maybe in the process you might actually find out this thing is not for you.

Major
For goodness sake unless you absolutely want to be a biologist please don't major in Biology or any non-paying biology related major. We all know that majoring in biology confers no huge advantage in medschool, maybe an extra class in biochem or genetics might help, but all that zoology and botany is of no value . For one thing if you don't get into medschool there is not much you can do with biology/biochemistry these days. And if you do get into medschool and later realize this stuff is not what you like, then you will be "stuck". Computer-science, Engineering, Business are a few alternatives amongst many that you could consider.
That way six years from now if you are one of those guys that thinks engineering is better than medicine, you can simply make a career switch and save us the argument.
If you are already majoring in biology, please consider a double major(it's only 50ish extra hrs in most schools)

Finances
This area is a little beyond our control but the bottom line is don't borrow more than you need. It is absolutely stupid not to apply for a scholarship that you qualify for. Do whatever it takes to keep your debt at a minimum i.e live like a student(a poor one at that). Make sure you go to the school that makes you the best financial aid offer, don't let the school name fool you.I am not saying that big name schools don't offer good financial aid, but you get my point. From my little research I have found that there are disgruntled doctors from all types of schools big-name or no-name. It just sucks to pay more for something you end up hating.


Book-smarts can only get you so far in life, in my opinion basic common sense is more valuable.

This is a discussion, feel free to add or criticize.

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[MonkeyNuts!]

And if you do get into medschool and later realize this stuff is not what you like, then you will be "stuck". Computer-science, Engineering, Business are a few alternatives amongst many that you could consider.

Average engineering GPA is either below or at a 3.0. I wouldn't recommend it, do engineering because you like it not as a backup because it will screw you hard. Even biomedical engineering - I majored in this at JHU, and it destroyed me and my GPA.

 

[ubermu]

I agree with everything up until here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=195799
Finances
This area is a little beyond our control but the bottom line is don't borrow more than you need. It is absolutely stupid not to apply for a scholarship that you qualify for. Do whatever it takes to keep your debt at a minimum i.e live like a student(a poor one at that). Make sure you go to the school that makes you the best financial aid offer, don't let the school name fool you.I am not saying that big name schools don't offer good financial aid, but you get my point. From my little research I have found that there are disgruntled doctors from all types of schools big-name or no-name. It just sucks more if you pay more for something you end up hating.

Reason: Student loans have very low interest rates. I think you should do the opposite. Max out on your student loan, and take any additional money you don't need and just invest it into a very low maintenance mutual fund such as a vanguard, earn 10% interest on a loan that has you for 3-4% interest and you'll actually be making money while you're in medical school.

 

[jash0624]

Average engineering GPA is either below or at a 3.0. I wouldn't recommend it, do engineering because you like it not as a backup because it will screw you hard. Even biomedical engineering - I majored in this at JHU, and it destroyed me and my GPA.

Seconded.

 

[ADeadLois]

For one thing if you don't get into medschool there is not much you can do with biology/biochemistry these days.

This is kind of overblown. You can actually do a lot with a bio degree...depending on your laboratory experience you could get a pretty good research job. You also have the flexibility to enter a variety of grad programs.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

For major I would advise not to pick something just because you think it is a good backup. Pick something you enjoy or have interest in. Because it wil help you do well if you actually LIKE what you are doing, and even if you don't get into med school/have a change of heart, you can end up doing something you actually LIKE. Be a person, not a cookie cutter premed, but not a paranoid moneygrubber either.

 

[mintendo]

This is kind of overblown. You can actually do a lot with a bio degree...depending on your laboratory experience you could get a pretty good research job. You also have the flexibility to enter a variety of grad programs.

That's about it though.

 

[TNATION]

Even if you don't want to be a biologist, majoring in biology is still probably a better career move if you can keep up with the work. Not much you can do with a biochemistry/biology major? I double-majored in anthropology and biology and the anthro major contributed NOTHING. Do you really think that sociology, communications, and history majors have better career prospects than a biochem major? Most of the kids I know at my school who major in these disciplines are not serious students (certainly there are people who major in these fields and are serious students).

 

[cbd]

When you say "pretty good" what do you mean? Academic positions do not pay well and industry positions are difficult to get.... Not terrible for a first job, but not much of a career!!

Choose a major that you like that will help you reach your goals. Have back-up plans in mind too!!

 

[Depakote]

That's about it though.

Hey! Biology and Chem majors would have no trouble finding work in either the housekeeping or foodservice industries...

 

[Cirrus83]

I agree with everything up until here:



Reason: Student loans have very low interest rates. I think you should do the opposite. Max out on your student loan, and take any additional money you don't need and just invest it into a very low maintenance mutual fund such as a vanguard, earn 10% interest on a loan that has you for 3-4% interest and you'll actually be making money while you're in medical school.

Yeah, student loans are a great deal in terms of that. Hell, I screwed up horribly, missed the original consolidation rate deadline (BY ONE DAY! ARGH), and I still only ended up paying 4.5% after interest rate bonuses.

If I had met the consolidation deadlines I would have paid at most like 2.5% or something, and if I had actually done my homework ahead of time I could have been in the 1.x% range with bonuses (lenders give bonuses for on-time payments, automatic withdrawal, etc).

Also, I for one, am actually happy to have paid extra to not go to the cheapest school I could have. I actually messed up on my financial aid #'s when I filed originally (my mother's fault, she gave me the wrong income data lol) and Tulane still gave me more money than Rochester did even after getting the package fixed at Rochester. But Tulane never sent a fixed package, and I really didn't want to go there. All in all, I guess I got to dodge seeing my school get destroyed by Katrina, which probably would have been too much for me to handle after dealing with 9/11 right after leaving NYC. I'd probably have become convinced that I was cursed with having the cities I lived in fall to disaster, and gone insane. (I went to high school 3 blocks from the twin towers, and my high school ended up having to temporarily hold classes at a different school since it was covered in dust much like the rest of downtown manhattan).

So you see, even though I borrowed more money to go to college than I had to, I'm not insane now (this is arguable). And that was well worth the extra $3K in loans per year.

On a more serious and non disaster related note, I'm actually also happy I didn't go to SUNY Binghamton or Stony Brook even though I was considering it...everyone else I knew who went to either one became kinda miserable, lol. And after seeing the fun times that Stony Brook graduates seem to have with finding a job (please realize this is sarcasm), I'm fairly happy with how pretty much everybody I knew from Rochester got a job within a couple of months. I'd rather have a ton of loans and a job that'll let me pay the damned loans than have no loans and be unable to get a job lol.

 

[sirus_virus]

All I am saying is go ahead and be a biologist if that is really what you want to do. Not because you think Biology major = good pre-med.

 

[jmed6182]

its deffinitely a myth that one has to find a job in the major that they graduated with...i have several friends who were bio majors....one works at a bank and the other is an investment banker...the options are limitless depending on the person...the degree just shows a person can stick with something and finish it

 

[sirus_virus]

its deffinitely a myth that one has to find a job in the major that they graduated with...i have several friends who were bio majors....one works at a bank and the other is an investment banker...the options are limitless depending on the person...the degree just shows a person can stick with something and finish it

What does that tell you when people have to get a job in a different field from what they studied. Look at this salary report and tell me what is wrong with this picture

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/...k_psr&p=050205_psr_495&s=salary&zipcode=95041

And that is if you find a job.

That guy earning 22K better like his job.

 

[Cirrus83]

What does that tell you when people have to get a job in a different field from what they studied. Look at this salary report and tell me what is wrong with this picture

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/...k_psr&p=050205_psr_495&s=salary&zipcode=95041

And that is if you find a job.

That guy earning 22K better like his job.

That guy needs to learn to negotiate a better income.

Not that I'm one to talk with my craptacular income (I'm paid at about the very lowest possible end of the spectrum for my position...any lower and I'd actually be off the spectrum, lol).

Actually, I just checked that salary spectrum and I guess the spectrum went up since last year, and they didn't give me the raise they probably should have, so I actually did fall off the spectrum, lol. Nice.

If you're curious:
http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/...&yearsofexp=&geo=New+York,+NY&narrowcode=HC02

Now that I think about it...I probably should ask for a raise, but then again the place where I work is so chillax that I probably shouldn't get paid much more lol.

I'm paid at underneath the lowest for the national spectrum...rotflmao...

Oh well, they also hired me with zero experience and a degree in a completely unrelated field lol

 

[sirus_virus]

One of my brothers has a biology degree and pretty much uses his diploma to swat flies now. I personally helped him job haunt and I can tell you that market is dry as a desert. That slapped some sense into him and now he is 6 credit hrs from getting a computer science degree(already 2 job offers).

 

[DrVanNostran]

As a reapplicant, I completely agree with sirus.

 

[xucardsfan08]

Although it is the general consensus that your focus of schoolwork does not generally matter, in reality it does.

Here are some of my factoids and observations:

Physical science majors (chemistry/physics/engineering) have the highest aggregate MCAT score along with topping the average of MCAT PS section.
Biological sciences have some of the lowest average MCAT scores (even in the BS section).
Humanities majors (history, philosophy, english, etc.) are also in the top of the list in MCAT scores along with a distinct advantage in the VR section.
Conclusion: The humanities advantage in the verbal section and essay are obvious. My opinion on why physical science majors tend to have higher scores is a result of the harder curriculum for them. While a biology major's upper level classes include Botany, Vertebrate Physiology, Ecology, etc. (in general), a chemistry major's upper level classes include Multivariable Calculus, Physical Chemistry (ball-buster class), Inorganic Chemistry, and Organic Synthesis, etc.
Chemistry majors, in my opinion, tend to be the smarter students in general (don't jump on me because of this fact, it is simply from the mind of a partly arrogant Chemistry major).

Another interesting note: When workin in business, a lot of the work is intuitive and based on communication skills and intelligence. A friend of mine was a science major and was told in an interview for a bank that he would be hired partly because he KNEW that he had to be smart in order to graduate with that degree. A 4.0 in Marketing is a lot different then a 4.0 in Science. So, a potential employer could possibly look positively on the fact that you were a science major.

Medical schools also look for well-rounded students. If you are, say a Philosophy major, you have to take GenBio, GenChem, Organic, and Physics anyway. You will also have a deep background in another topic of interest (the well-roundedness).

 

[Law2Doc]

Max out on your student loan, and take any additional money you don't need and just invest it into a very low maintenance mutual fund such as a vanguard, earn 10% interest on a loan that has you for 3-4% interest and you'll actually be making money while you're in medical school.

Historically, people have not earned 10% over time with any regularity via such passive investments. The average rate of return in stock market equity investments over time is about 6-7%. Lots of people do even worse. So while you certainly could make more money investing a low interest loan at a potentially higher rate in a mutual fund, this kind of thinking has burned more than a few people. Only do it if you have good investment savvy, good info, and expect to have time to manage your investment and minimize risks. Do not do it to plop it into an index fund and hope the market plays nice.

 

[FujiApple]

Major
For goodness sake unless you absolutely want to be a biologist please don't major in Biology or any non-paying biology related major.
If you are already majoring in biology, please consider a double major(it's only 50ish extra hrs in most schools)

Um, I liked my bio major, but I don't want to be a straight biologist. and I'm very glad I decided not to double major because I got to explore lots of fields and talents I never knew I had, and learn lots of languages that I wouldn't have learned if I had followed the advice of practical minded people like you. My point is, there are many paths to success, and I, for one, am so happy that I chose this one.

 

[xylem29]

Although it is the general consensus that your focus of schoolwork does not generally matter, in reality it does.

Here are some of my factoids and observations:

Physical science majors (chemistry/physics/engineering) have the highest aggregate MCAT score along with topping the average of MCAT PS section.
Biological sciences have some of the lowest average MCAT scores (even in the BS section).
Humanities majors (history, philosophy, english, etc.) are also in the top of the list in MCAT scores along with a distinct advantage in the VR section.
Conclusion: The humanities advantage in the verbal section and essay are obvious. My opinion on why physical science majors tend to have higher scores is a result of the harder curriculum for them. While a biology major's upper level classes include Botany, Vertebrate Physiology, Ecology, etc. (in general), a chemistry major's upper level classes include Multivariable Calculus, Physical Chemistry (ball-buster class), Inorganic Chemistry, and Organic Synthesis, etc.
Chemistry majors, in my opinion, tend to be the smarter students in general (don't jump on me because of this fact, it is simply from the mind of a partly arrogant Chemistry major).

Another interesting note: When workin in business, a lot of the work is intuitive and based on communication skills and intelligence. A friend of mine was a science major and was told in an interview for a bank that he would be hired partly because he KNEW that he had to be smart in order to graduate with that degree. A 4.0 in Marketing is a lot different then a 4.0 in Science. So, a potential employer could possibly look positively on the fact that you were a science major.

Medical schools also look for well-rounded students. If you are, say a Philosophy major, you have to take GenBio, GenChem, Organic, and Physics anyway. You will also have a deep background in another topic of interest (the well-roundedness).

Thank-you - the others in this thread must still be in university. Wait till you graduate people and realize that a BSc and BA are pretty much the same thing - a major in history and a major in zoology can lead to the exact same career path. It's not about what you study - because majoring in biology doesn't make you a specialist in biology - so your knowledge and "expertise" would never be drawn on - b/c you aren't an expert in anything, even if you have a 4.0. What the working world cares about is the skills you've developed while in school - critical thinking, ability to learn quickly, organizatioal skills, work efficiently under stress, meet deadlines, and (hopefully) educated enough to be aware of your own ignorance (i.e have an open and enlightened mind).

So whether you've got BSc in biology, botany, chemistry physics, or a BA in english, philosophy - it's your experiences (volunteering and paid work), who you know, how much drive you have, and how well you market yourself and how well you hunt down opportunities - THAT GET YOU SOMEWHERE.

 

[MattD]

Average engineering GPA is either below or at a 3.0. I wouldn't recommend it, do engineering because you like it not as a backup because it will screw you hard. Even biomedical engineering - I majored in this at JHU, and it destroyed me and my GPA.

Engineering is tough, but if you work hard and you're smart, you should probably graduate with higher than a 3.0. A successful medical student is above the 'average'. What is the average biology GPA, or chemistry GPA? I have no idea, I'm asking, but I'll bet it's not exactly a 3.8, or else all those bio majors wouldn't be getting rejections. The fact is, there are lazy people in engineering just like any other field, there are less than bright people in engineering just like any other field, and those people will pull that average down.

Now, I'm not saying or making any assumptions about you, your intelligence/work ethic, or the difficulty of your program. There's a kid in my class now who graduated from the same program as you, and it sounds like it was tough. I'm just saying, I hope people aren't scared away from engineering if they're genuinely interested in it. Your education is what you make of it, and so are your grades.

 

[maestro1625]

honestly, the OP sounds bitter about something.

At a low tier liberal arts college, what else would I have majored in but Bio? It helped me prepare for the MCAT better than anything else, and it paid off. If I didnt get in, I'm no less prepared for than any of the other majors at this school.

 

[enigma85]

I do not regret for a second becoming a biology major. I would advise a student to take the courses he/she is interested in. That being said, he/she has to really enjoy the field and be content with the possibility of going to graduate school instead of medical school. While I know medicine is what I want to pursue, I would not be miserable earning a Ph.D. in Neuroscience, Cell Biology, or something similar. The "average" biological scientist earns somewhere between 50-80k. Not too shabby, although the education time is extensive.

Personally, I have truly enjoyed taking upper level courses in comparative anatomy, ecology, neuroscience, immunology, and evolution (I'm a big fan of National Geographic, Animal Planet, etc.). If these fields interest you, I highly recommend becoming a biology major. I would much rather take these courses than Biomedical Circuits or Synthetic Polymer Chemistry.

I don't think being a bio major held me back on the MCAT; I scored a 38. From the data, it does seem that bio majors perform worse than math/physical sciences/humanities majors. However, bio majors represented 55.4% of applicants and 54.3% of matriculants, so there does not appear to be a significant disadvantage in the admissions process. Among non-premed bio majors in my class, one is going to be a consultant at a top 5 firm, one is going into environmental law, one is becoming a physician assistant ($80,000+/year with huge demand), one is getting a graduate degree in bioinformatics ($80,000+/year, also in high demand), one is going to be a middle school teacher, one is becoming a veterinarian, and one is becoming a pharmacist ($100,000/year). With a little planning and a good advisor, there are great opportunities for bio majors if you're willing to go to graduate school. Other graduate programs include PT, OT, dentistry, and public health.

Many people wonder what they're going to do with degrees in Classics, Spanish, or Women's Studies. Biology majors have much better prospects than most others, although, again, a major nowadays doensn't signify as much to employers as it used to.

 

[smuwillobrien]

This thread sounded sexy, but it isn't.

 

[HumbleMD]

This thread sounded sexy, but it isn't.

In reference to the other post, "you know you're a pre-med when you read about screwing things, and all you can think of is left-handed or right-handed pinwheel octehedrally-coordinatd metal complexes." Darn you inorganic chemistry.

 

[SteveUTexas]

I agree with everything up until here:



Reason: Student loans have very low interest rates. I think you should do the opposite. Max out on your student loan, and take any additional money you don't need and just invest it into a very low maintenance mutual fund such as a vanguard, earn 10% interest on a loan that has you for 3-4% interest and you'll actually be making money while you're in medical school.

Uh, I want one of these 3% interest rate loans. the rate Set by the federal government is 6.8% currently and can float to 8.5%. Student loans are high compared to mortgages.

 

[sirus_virus]

honestly, the OP sounds bitter about something.

At a low tier liberal arts college, what else would I have majored in but Bio? It helped me prepare for the MCAT better than anything else, and it paid off. If I didnt get in, I'm no less prepared for than any of the other majors at this school.

The post is not about passing the MCAT, it is about preparing people for real life. There are physicians who wish they had scored lower on the MCAT so they would not have gone the medicine route. Remember that physician dis-satisfaction is at an all time high today(about 40%), so there is already about a 40% chance you might not like this gig. If you are happy to be a biologist, and you are sure medicine is for you(even though I don't know how you can be sure of this), then good for you. All I am saying is that having another major increases your options in the future even as a physician. Why do you think medschools are actively encouraging people to do the same thing.

 

[sweet2th]

For major I would advise not to pick something just because you think it is a good backup. Pick something you enjoy or have interest in. Because it wil help you do well if you actually LIKE what you are doing, and even if you don't get into med school/have a change of heart, you can end up doing something you actually LIKE. Be a person, not a cookie cutter premed, but not a paranoid moneygrubber either.

AMEN!

 

[zimmie256]

When considering investment opportunities, make sure you realize that you need to consider not just the interest rate, but also the rate of inflation. I think it's safe to assume inflation to be ~2.5% (but it's easy enough to look up over time), so suddenly a 5% interest rate doesn't sound so sweet... Obviously you can still make money investing, just thought I'd point that out for anyone considering this option...

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Engineering is tough, but if you work hard and you're smart, you should probably graduate with higher than a 3.0. A successful medical student is above the 'average'. What is the average biology GPA, or chemistry GPA? I have no idea, I'm asking, but I'll bet it's not exactly a 3.8, or else all those bio majors wouldn't be getting rejections. The fact is, there are lazy people in engineering just like any other field, there are less than bright people in engineering just like any other field, and those people will pull that average down.

Now, I'm not saying or making any assumptions about you, your intelligence/work ethic, or the difficulty of your program. There's a kid in my class now who graduated from the same program as you, and it sounds like it was tough. I'm just saying, I hope people aren't scared away from engineering if they're genuinely interested in it. Your education is what you make of it, and so are your grades.

Yeah I've had friends graduate from engineering with 4.0s. At least at JHU, during my undergrad years I believe the overall engineering average GPA was under a 3.0. One year I think it was 2.7 if I remember correctly. Has nothing to do with the intelligence of people or the typical lazy population - in general the major is harder than straight up science or liberal arts.

The difference between engineering and most traditional premed majors is that where biology for the most part is memorization until more advanced coursework, engineering is generally all applicative from day 1 - at least in their exams and homeworks if not their course material. Some people respond to this better, most don't.

 

[sirus_virus]

Um, I liked my bio major, but I don't want to be a straight biologist. and I'm very glad I decided not to double major because I got to explore lots of fields and talents I never knew I had, and learn lots of languages that I wouldn't have learned if I had followed the advice of practical minded people like you. My point is, there are many paths to success, and I, for one, am so happy that I chose this one.

Then the advice is not for you. Goodluck

 

[xucardsfan08]

Yeah I've had friends graduate from engineering with 4.0s. At least at JHU, during my undergrad years I believe the overall engineering average GPA was under a 3.0. One year I think it was 2.7 if I remember correctly. Has nothing to do with the intelligence of people or the typical lazy population - in general the major is harder than straight up science or liberal arts.

The difference between engineering and most traditional premed majors is that where biology for the most part is memorization until more advanced coursework, engineering is generally all applicative from day 1 - at least in their exams and homeworks if not their course material. Some people respond to this better, most don't.

That was my reasoning above for the difference between Biology majors and Chemistry/Physics/Engineering majors. While in the biological sciences, most, if not all, of the information learned is purely memorization. In the physical sciences, it is all about application of the information. Memorizing the formulas for problems will get you nowhere unless you understand every nuance of the situation.

Case in point, my last physical chemistry test required us to memorize dozens of equations as well as being able to derive each one along with using the various derivations correctly in a given problem. Not easy stuff.

 

[Filibuster]

One of my brothers has a biology degree and pretty much uses his diploma to swat flies now. I personally helped him job haunt and I can tell you that market is dry as a desert. That slapped some sense into him and now he is 6 credit hrs from getting a computer science degree(already 2 job offers).

Do you work in IT?

 

[TSK]

I'd have to agree with the above posts that one's undergrad major has little to do with one's future career options. At the university level, one's major goals includes learning how to critically think, problem solve, etc, it's not a trade school. Very few people actually graduate knowing how to do something.

I'm sure that we've all seen examples of people majoring in whatever, doing well in it, and ending up doing whatever they want.

 

[sirus_virus]

Do you work in IT?

I have before. If you are in IT then that's great. IT is one of many alternative backgrounds people should consider(engineering, business etc). If you don't like medicine you can land one of the best jobs in the country according to CNN. Checkout #1 and #7 here http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bestjobs/top50/index.html

 

[Kikaku21]

Yeah I've had friends graduate from engineering with 4.0s. At least at JHU, during my undergrad years I believe the overall engineering average GPA was under a 3.0. One year I think it was 2.7 if I remember correctly. Has nothing to do with the intelligence of people or the typical lazy population - in general the major is harder than straight up science or liberal arts.

The difference between engineering and most traditional premed majors is that where biology for the most part is memorization until more advanced coursework, engineering is generally all applicative from day 1 - at least in their exams and homeworks if not their course material. Some people respond to this better, most don't.

No doubt. The highest GPA I ever heard of in my engineering program was 3.8. I knew a guy with a 3.9 in EE, but he was socially inept. Anyhow, its tough. Presumably, ADCOMs know this and make allowances for harder programs.

 

[Max8]

[U][B]Major[/B][/U] For goodnes..."stuck" with any sort of life-sciences major.

 

[silverlining1]

Major
For goodness sake unless you absolutely want to be a biologist please don't major in Biology or any non-paying biology related major.

I see your point, but this is worded oddly. I wouldn't want to be a biologist... I want to be a doctor. I enjoy biology, and I'm fascinated by the workings of our bodies. I am minoring in Psychology, which I believe gives me better perspective on the world and how people interact with one another, as well as what my own motives truly are.

I understand that what you meant is "Don't major in bio just because you think it's the best premed major." I agree with that, and I'd like to echo what others, like EternalRage, said: do something that you enjoy. (For me, it happens to be bio... but I have premed friends who are happily studying Art History or Music!)

 

[sirus_virus]

I see your point, but this is worded oddly. I wouldn't want to be a biologist... I want to be a doctor. I enjoy biology, and I'm fascinated by the workings of our bodies. I am minoring in Psychology, which I believe gives me better perspective on the world and how people interact with one another, as well as what my own motives truly are.

I understand that what you meant is "Don't major in bio just because you think it's the best premed major." I agree with that, and I'd like to echo what others, like EternalRage, said: do something that you enjoy. (For me, it happens to be bio... but I have premed friends who are happily studying Art History or Music!)

awesome point

 

[dopaminesurge]

no. if i could go back in time, i would pay the medical schools NOT to accept me. i want my life back. it's not what you think. trust me. get out while you can.

This is the guy who started the poop hot dog thread. Bummer.

 

[sirus_virus]

I'm sorry but I completely disagree. I double majored in Biochem and Mol Bio and after graduating had tons of different possible employment/further education options to consider. Besides industry jobs, academic lab positions, Masters/PHD programs, teaching etc, it's also possible to get complete "unrelated" positions with a major in Biochem (I have a from my major who is working for Google with no formal computer experience). I don't know if straight Biology would confer the same multitude of benefits, but I imagine that your options would still be quite varied and that you will never be "stuck" with any sort of life-sciences major.

Tons of employment options? You are killing me. The main opportunity is to keep going to school until you get a PHD and hopefully land a teaching gig(hopefully not in highschool or a CC).

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

That was my reasoning above for the difference between Biology majors and Chemistry/Physics/Engineering majors. While in the biological sciences, most, if not all, of the information learned is purely memorization. In the physical sciences, it is all about application of the information. Memorizing the formulas for problems will get you nowhere unless you understand every nuance of the situation.

Case in point, my last physical chemistry test required us to memorize dozens of equations as well as being able to derive each one along with using the various derivations correctly in a given problem. Not easy stuff.

Yep for memorization tests you already know the answer (or should if you study), just have to recall it for exams.

With applicative, you don't know the answer before going into the test, you have to figure it out, and on top of that if it is truly an applicative test there should be no previous year's exams which means you REALLY don't get to know the answer ahead of time.

 

[Max8]

Tons of employment options? You are killing me. The main opportunity is to keep going to school until you get a PHD and hopefully land a teaching gig(hopefully not in highschool or a CC).

Not really....no....it hasn't been for me at least... All I have is circumstantial evidence but I have not continued on to get a PhD or even a Masters and have still had plenty of employment opportunities. Much more so than my friends who were Dance or Art Majors. But I think the final word of what you mean is right: major in what you like to do, that way, you have a better chance of doing what you like after graduation. If you don't like bio, don't major in it. But don't Not major in bio because you think you won't have opportunities after graduation besides med school.

 

[Timmythemic22]

The post is not about passing the MCAT, it is about preparing people for real life. There are physicians who wish they had scored lower on the MCAT so they would not have gone the medicine route. Remember that physician dis-satisfaction is at an all time high today(about 40%), so there is already about a 40% chance you might not like this gig. If you are happy to be a biologist, and you are sure medicine is for you(even though I don't know how you can be sure of this), then good for you. All I am saying is that having another major increases your options in the future even as a physician. Why do you think medschools are actively encouraging people to do the same thing.

Trying to weed out your competition?

Sneaky, sneaky, sir.

 

[sirus_virus]

Not really....no....it hasn't been for me at least... All I have is circumstantial evidence but I have not continued on to get a PhD or even a Masters and have still had plenty of employment opportunities. Much more so than my friends who were Dance or Art Majors. But I think the final word of what you mean is right: major in what you like to do, that way, you have a better chance of doing what you like after graduation. If you don't like bio, don't major in it. But don't Not major in bio because you think you won't have opportunities after graduation besides med school.

I am happy for you, but let us not use individual stories to generalize. I am sure there are some Ivy legeau biology graduates that have success in the job market, but for the average biology student the job prospects are bad.

 

[sirus_virus]

Trying to weed out your competition?

Sneaky, sneaky, sir.

Really? Why don't you take a trip to your local hospital and do a survey. I did, and the was the first time I heard of medicare/medicaid screwing doctors, heard of the hostile "don't you dare make a mistake" legal environment, and rapid income decline. All this stuff is real. I'll be honest and say that I did meet a lot of happy doctors but you will always remember the unhappy ones more than the happy ones(that's just human nature). I think people are missing the point of the post which is-- prepare yourself in such a way that if you don't like the medical thing(at any point in the process) you can make an easy transition to something else, and save us the whinning.

 

[TimeResonance]

Am I the only one puzzled by everyone saying that biology is pure memorization? Have you set foot in a bio lab? Have you taken a genetics test? There is alot of memorization but it is just a necessary component to get to the important concepts. The important part is to understand the concepts and figure out new ones. Hence its designation as a science. Has anyone ever heard of the biotech industry? You think they hire biologists?

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Am I the only one puzzled by everyone saying that biology is pure memorization? Have you set foot in a bio lab? Have you taken a genetics test? There is alot of memorization but it is just a necessary component to get to the important concepts. The important part is to understand the concepts and figure out new ones. Hence its designation as a science. Has anyone ever heard of the biotech industry? You think they hire biologists?

I've done graduate work in Biochem/Molecular Bio. Compared to engineering, the courses were even mostly memorization, I only had a couple classes at which the exams were all applicative.

Of course in industry it is going to be different, not like people are getting paid to memorize stuff. We're talking about undergrad majors here. And I do realize that some upper level bio courses do dabble in some application, but you really don't see it until you're in research.

 

[sirus_virus]

Am I the only one puzzled by everyone saying that biology is pure memorization? Have you set foot in a bio lab? Have you taken a genetics test? There is alot of memorization but it is just a necessary component to get to the important concepts. The important part is to understand the concepts and figure out new ones. Hence its designation as a science. Has anyone ever heard of the biotech industry? You think they hire biologists?

A lot of schools have biotech as a major, I will recomend that over biology.