Beginners Question

[Freakedout]

Hi I thought I would ask all of you a question as I am currently trying to decide after receiving multiple acceptances which medical school to attend. From all of your experiences through the match I was really curious about how significant it is to get your medical education at a school with academic reputation versus one that is more community based (known for fostering Primary care physicians). Does it even matter what school you attend if just resonable boards scores regardless? I am just confused and thought some of you may be able to shed some light. Thank You.

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[OGT]

Don't stress. Go to a medical school that you want to go to. In the end you can get to anywhere from anywhere. Don't get to caught up in semantics, just go somewhere where you think you'll have fun and learn a lot. Don't go to some haughty taughty medical school just because of its name. Medical school sucks bad enough without being somewhere you don't want to be. Just relax, have fun, and get ready to study hard. I know really brilliant people at no-name medical schools, and I know people at big name schools who I wouldn't want to mow my lawn.

 

[Frumps]

I also think you should go to the school you like the most---it doesn't really matter when you decide to apply for residency.

 

[Freakedout]

I also think you should go to the school you like the most---it doesn't really matter when you decide to apply for residency.

If it doesn't matter what school you attended. Then what type of factors effect whether you match into a competitive speciality like optho or something easier? I am just wondering because in that case I would like to attend a school where there would be more opportunities for me to do research or study abroad. etc.

 

[4424]

If it doesn't matter what school you attended. Then what type of factors effect whether you match into a competitive speciality like optho or something easier? I am just wondering because in that case I would like to attend a school where there would be more opportunities for me to do research or study abroad. etc.

If you are thinking that far ahead, knowing how strong the ophtho program at the school is sometimes helpful. I second the notion of going where you are the most comfortable and worry about everything else later but having a strong department that has research available help.

 

[Butters415]

If you're choosing between one of the top programs versus a lower tiered program, there's a huge difference when you apply to residencies. If you're choosing among various programs that have the same reputation, then it probably doesn't make much of a difference.

Just being from a top med school will get you interviews that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise. If this really concerns you now, you should find the match lists for each of the schools you're interested in and look at how many people are matching in competitive fields versus non-competitive fields.

 

[benit100]

I definitely think that going to a top medical school will help you in some fashion when you apply for residency. However, if going to a top medical school is going to make you unhappy and bitter, that's going to likely lead you away from fields that you might otherwise be interested in and really happy working in. So there's a balance. If you're someone who is happy in most situations and adaptable, and if you have the option available to you, I would advise going to a medical school with at least a decent reputation. If you're going to be unhappy unless you have the perfect fit, go to the place with the perfect fit, regardless of reputation. My two cents.

 

[splice]

In my experience applying and interviewing for residency, it was clear that coming from a well-known and respected medical school was a significant factor in how my application was generally perceived by some people. I think coming from a upper tier school people are more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Frumps]

In ophtho a top name school might get you a few extra interviews, but in reality boards, grades, externships, research, and other experiences are more important. My point being, as long as the medical school is a US allopathic school, you can match into good programs from any medical school you attend. True, if you feel the need to match into the very elite programs, a top med school can help.

 

[Butters415]

In ophtho a top name school might get you a few extra interviews, but in reality boards, grades, externships, research, and other experiences are more important. My point being, as long as the medical school is a US allopathic school, you can match into good programs from any medical school you attend. True, if you feel the need to match into the very elite programs, a top med school can help.

I agree completely.

 

[Ophtho24]

You can definitely get into good and even great programs from not so well known schools; however it is a definite advantage to go to a big name school when it comes to residency matching. Just look at things this way... If you were a residency director and you had a guy from a low ranked school (which will also make it hard to get letters that are valuable, something to REALLY consider) with a board score of 245 and a guy from Harvard with a 245 and everything else is relatively equal (which things often are in competetive fields) who would you rank higher? 9-10 times out of 10 the residency director or chairman will take the big name school. And unfortunately this probably also holds true if the difference is really small name guy 245, big name guy 230. Still everyone is very right that if you go to a school you will not be happy attending then your performance will suffer. I went to a less well known school and encountered some difficulty in the whole process but not enough that I wouldn't have chosen my school over and over again if I had it to do over. Just don't think you will be on equal footing from a low ranked school as a guy from Hopkins or UCLA.

 

[Ophtho24]

Certainly don't postpone going to med school this year if you have been accepted to a lesser know MD school and have not gotten any acceptances from big name programs. (Unless of course you have something great to do with the next year and don't mind going through the painful process of reapplying.)

 

[Freakedout]

So then am I crazy to decline an acceptance from Northwestern to stay in ohio and go MUO or U Cinn or Stay really close to home and go to Wright State?

I am seriously considering going to wright state because I really liked it there but it is so hard giving up Northwestern. I am trying to convince myself to settle for an inbetween and goto MUO or Ucinn. I am not sure. What would some of you do?

Also I wanted say thanks to all of you for your insightful responses.

 

[Jokestr]

Go where ever you think you will be happiest! You can find research to do anywhere if it's something you really want(and probably should do if you want a competetive residency). Also, if you are interested in doing things abroad during med school, make sure you find a medical school where you can get credit for it, or at least have the option of doing it in all of your "spare time." From my experience, a little international work in whatever field you want to enter, goes a long way not to mention it is an absolutely great experience to have during med school! Good luck on your decision, but if you have that many options already, you really can't lose.

You also might check out the recent stats from some of the people who matched last week into ophtho residencies to get a good idea of what it takes. The link is entitled "Ophthalmology Residency 2006 Post-match Poll"

 

[orbitsurgMD]

If it doesn't matter what school you attended. Then what type of factors effect whether you match into a competitive speciality like optho or something easier? I am just wondering because in that case I would like to attend a school where there would be more opportunities for me to do research or study abroad. etc.

Don't confuse your objectives in choosing a college with the objectives for choosing a medical school. You have decided to become a physician at that point. You are seeking a professional education, and need to judge what you are going to get from that education and how that education will help you get to the stages beyond medical school, namely your residency. In getting a competetive and desirable residency, lots of things matter: LORs, grades, Step 1 USMLE scores, class rank, clerkship reviews and the quality and reputation of your medical school. Good residency programs like to claim the ability to attract applicants from well-regarded schools. It is always better to apply from a strong and well-known school than not, all other things being roughly equal.

You need to research things a bit. Start with a list of the most recent graduating class and get the programs where they matched. Ask someone in medical school or a doctor you know to take a look at the list and get an opinion about the quality of the placements. Then compare schools. Schools that prepare their people well and are respected will be quick to show you this information since they are generally proud of what they are doing.

I would tell you to go to the best school you can stand going to.

 

[Eyesore]

You can definitely get into good and even great programs from not so well known schools; however it is a definite advantage to go to a big name school when it comes to residency matching. Just look at things this way... If you were a residency director and you had a guy from a low ranked school (which will also make it hard to get letters that are valuable, something to REALLY consider) with a board score of 245 and a guy from Harvard with a 245 and everything else is relatively equal (which things often are in competetive fields) who would you rank higher? 9-10 times out of 10 the residency director or chairman will take the big name school. And unfortunately this probably also holds true if the difference is really small name guy 245, big name guy 230. Still everyone is very right that if you go to a school you will not be happy attending then your performance will suffer. I went to a less well known school and encountered some difficulty in the whole process but not enough that I wouldn't have chosen my school over and over again if I had it to do over. Just don't think you will be on equal footing from a low ranked school as a guy from Hopkins or UCLA.

I agree with this statement! As was mentioned above, not only would you be coming from a reputable school, but your letters will come from well-known people. For example, if you came from Hopkins applying for ophthalmology and you had good/great letters from giants like Neil Miller, Julia Haller, the Bresslers, Walter Stark, Peter McDonnell, Doug Jabs, etc...(any or few of the above), you would be set. These people (similar in other big named programs) are known by everyone in ophthalmology and are generally very well respected. Therefore, their letters are going to be given a lot more weight in comparison to some random ophthalmology practitioner in a lesser known program (typically from lesser caliber schools). I'm not saying that these factors are the end all be all of matching in ophthalmology. Obviously grades, board scores, etc come into play as well. I just wanted to stress that you cannot underestimate the value of this aspect of the application process.

Furthermore, you would have access to a lot cooler projects which will also make you look like a superstar!

 

[Jokestr]

I agree and disagree with the above statements. You still gotta go with what ever is going to make you most happy. If that is going to a "top ten" medical school so you can match at a "top ten" residency program and this is what will make you most happy then go for it. However, some of the best clinically trained physicians do not come from "top" programs. Many of the "top" programs are great at producing research and innovations. This is why they often times how they get their "top" rankings. Whether or not they produce better clinically trained physicians is debatable. However, whether or not going to a "top" program is best for you is something only you can decide. In my opinion some of the best programs in the country were never mentioned in the above statements....programs like Kentucky, Utah, San Diego etc. All of these programs produces ophthalmologists that are some of the best clinically trained, yet you may have never heard much publicity about any of them. Figure out what you want most in life and go with it.
Peace, I'm outa here

 

[Hallm_7]

Hey, I'm at MUO right now so I'll give you my opinion on these matters.

I don't know how many of you all are in or have been in medical school (since this is a residency forum I assume quite a few), but being in the middle of my first year I can tell you school rankings and reputation mean less and less every day. You'll figure out very quickly that a school having quality instruction is far more important than being ranked highly. In fact, it is often said that at your higher ranked schools the level of instruction is lacking. I don't think you can make a blanket statement that highly ranked schools have less quality instruction, but I think you can accurately say that ranking and quality instruction are not correlated. I say all of that to get to the point that the most important aspect of your residency application is your step I score, and getting a quality education with good instruction is the most important factor in getting a good score....of course you have to study as well. As a medical student you'll soon realize you're going to basically learn the exact same thing at any school in the country, and you're only going to remember a relatively small percentage of what you learn.

Also something that gets more and more important everyday is cost. It's something that I didn't fully appreciate until I started school and began receiving my loan statements. It makes me very, very thankful that I didn't go to a private school and have to pay twice as much as I would at my state school. Go where you'll be happy, but don't let the illusion that rankings are worth the additional $100,000 in debt. In theory there could be an exactly equivalent applicant to a residency program from Harvard, but in reality one of the two of you are going to be more qualified than the other and will fit with that program better.

 

[Frumps]

Well said!

 

[Ophtho24]

Hallm
You make some great points that I definitely agree with about choosing a school. Cost is definately not something to take lightly, you don't want to go into a specialty because you feel you have to to pay off your debt. My school was "relatively" cheap and loan repayment never entered my mind when deciding to go into ophtho. However, Step I scores are not the end of the road or even close to it when residency directors pick future residents. In my experience, when I interiewed at the top programs I was definitiely in the minority and felt like I was wasting my time. Everyone at the top programs is almost always from UCLA, UCSF, U Michigan, Harvard... There aren't tons of people from the lower end schools. Obviously some of the correlation could be that you are more likely to get a very high score on Step I if you are smart enough to get into these schools, but I think a lot of the correlation is that the USMLE threshold to get an interview is much lower if you go to a big name school. I met a resident at one of the most competetive programs in the country who was from a strong med school and she had only done TWO weeks of ophtho before applying and never did any more in her whole 4th year. I am doubting her ophtho letters could have been that strong with only two weeks on the service. I think I would have been laughed out of all of my interviews if I showed up and said hey I love the field based on my two weeks at my home school. And yet she matched at one of her top choices. She is definitely smart and a good resident but I get the feeling that she landed her spot based on connections from her home school and the strong name of her home institution. This is something that is not working for you from a small name med school and sadly enough it actually just works against you. I heard at multiple interviews at big name programs that "I can guarantee you that we have NEVER interviewed anyone from your program before" I don't think that was necessarily a good thing. All this said I still matched at a program that I am very excited about attending. The bigger thing is probably that if you really don't do well at a big name school because you are unhappy then I feel it is unlikely that the name of your school will overcome big application deficits such as things like Step I score under 200-210. Always go where you will be happy, or at least don't go anywhere where you can foresee yourself being unhappy.

 

[shredhog65]

GO TO NORTHWESTERN.

It has a MUCH better reputation (national vs local) than the others you are talking about. I went to a lower tier med school in the midwest and I've never heard of some of those other places. Northwestern will open doors for you that the others won't. Just being honest.

 

[Epi]

People posting can only help you so much in your decision. In the end, you should not just listen to a person posting that you should go to school X because of Y and Z if you know in your heart that you're not going to be the happiest there. You should go to the school that fits you the best.

I would put more weight into the advice from people who know you and your personality better.

What you do in medical school will define you, not the name of the school that is on your diploma after you graduate. How many patients ask their doctors where they went to medical school?

 

[exmike]

Yes you should go where you are happy, but I dont think it should be lost that going to a school with an 'elite' ophtho program may be of some benefit when trying to get that all important 'bigwig' letter.

 

[PDT4CNV]

Don't go to poorly thought of school or a school that nobody has ever heard of. Besides that, it doesn't matter. What matters are board scores, grades, and good letters.