Behavioral therapist job for autistic children

[danielthemaniel]

Hello everyone I applied for a job as a behavioral therapist for autistic children. The reason I applied is because I want to help autistic children in the same way that my autistic cousin was helped.

I just want to know if this counts as good clinical experience? It can’t count for volunteering experience because it’s paid but will this count as clinical experience?

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[LizzyM]

One of my many nieces is a masters-trained behavioral therapist. I do not consider this to be clinical. The students are not "patients". It is a good job and you can list it as employment and it is a helping profession and you are learning about individuals and a population that is different from your own personal experience. This is not a substitute for at least a little experience, either paid or unpaid, of people who are receiving medical care.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I agree, this isn't clinical, but it can still be meaningful. Nevertheless you'll still need hours doing something else to check the clinical experience box.

 

[Catalystik]

Hello everyone I applied for a job as a behavioral therapist for autistic children. The reason I applied is because I want to help autistic children in the same way that my autistic cousin was helped.

I just want to know if this counts as good clinical experience? It can’t count for volunteering experience because it’s paid but will this count as clinical experience?

No. This will be a great experience, but I would not look at it as active patient experience that med school adcomms are looking for.

 

[danielthemaniel]

One of my many nieces is a masters-trained behavioral therapist. I do not consider this to be clinical. The students are not "patients". It is a good job and you can list it as employment and it is a helping profession and you are learning about individuals and a population that is different from your own personal experience. This is not a substitute for at least a little experience, either paid or unpaid, of people who are receiving medical care.

Thanks for helping me understand why this isn’t clinical experience, but would this be a good experience for admissions in general?

It doesn’t fit in under volunteering, clincal experience, or anything else, but would this still be meaningful to adcoms given my reason for looking for this job being that I want to help the way my family member was helped?

 

[KnightDoc]

Thanks for helping me understand why this isn’t clinical experience, but would this be a good experience for admissions in general?

It doesn’t fit in under volunteering, clincal experience, or anything else, but would this still be meaningful to adcoms given my reason for looking for this job being that I want to help the way my family member was helped?

Yes, but why does that matter? If you are doing it for your stated reasons, what's the difference whether, or how, it will enhance a med school application?

If you are only looking to improve your application, then you want clinical (either paid or unpaid) plus non-clinical volunteering. If you really want admissions "credit," do it on a volunteer basis. Otherwise, it's just another non-clinical job.

Your reasons are noble, and it's important work, but if you do it instead of something else adcoms actively look for, it's not going to help your application. It sounds like that is the essence of what you are asking. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[danielthemaniel]

Yes, but why does that matter? If you are doing it for your stated reasons, what's the difference whether, or how, it will enhance a med school application?

If you are only looking to improve your application, then you want clinical (either paid or unpaid) plus non-clinical volunteering. If you really want admissions "credit," do it on a volunteer basis. Otherwise, it's just another non-clinical job.

Your reasons are noble, and it's important work, but if you do it instead of something else adcoms actively look for, it's not going to help your application. It sounds like that is the essence of what you are asking. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I’m going to do it anyway I just wanted to plan out if I’m going to apply to volunteer at a hospital for clinical experience or if this was enough. I got my answer

 

[GoSpursGo]

Yes, but why does that matter? If you are doing it for your stated reasons, what's the difference whether, or how, it will enhance a med school application?

If you are only looking to improve your application, then you want clinical (either paid or unpaid) plus non-clinical volunteering. If you really want admissions "credit," do it on a volunteer basis. Otherwise, it's just another non-clinical job.

Your reasons are noble, and it's important work, but if you do it instead of something else adcoms actively look for, it's not going to help your application. It sounds like that is the essence of what you are asking. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I'm going to push back against this pretty strongly. Yes, an applicant needs to check off X clinical hours and Y volunteering hours as a minimum to show that they A) know what they're getting themselves into, and B) have at least a shred of altruism in their body, respectively. But it's overly reductive to suggest that those are the ONLY things that matter in the med school application process.

There is absolutely value in having a "real world job" before applying to med school, and doubly so when it is clearly a job that is adjacent to medicine like this job would be. In an interview setting I could imagine the OP being able to more clearly articulate an interest in, say, pediatrics or psychiatry based on this experience. There is a level of responsibility that comes with holding down a job that doesn't exist when you're "just volunteering," particularly in a job that would require critical thinking and direct person-to-person interaction.

So, yes the OP needs to check the boxes in some other way, and if they still need to study for the MCAT then they need to make sure they aren't overexerting themselves. But assuming they can do that, this is the kind of experience that can really help an application stand out from all of the hundreds of applicants who got 1000 hours scribing in the ER. There is nothing wrong with scribing, but the applicants who did that kind of all sound the same in an interview, whereas the OP will definitely have a unique and memorable background.

 

[LiteralLungs]

One of my many nieces is a masters-trained behavioral therapist. I do not consider this to be clinical. The students are not "patients". It is a good job and you can list it as employment and it is a helping profession and you are learning about individuals and a population that is different from your own personal experience. This is not a substitute for at least a little experience, either paid or unpaid, of people who are receiving medical care.

If the OP is working in a setting where the patient is also receiving psychiatric care in addition to his/her behavioral therapy, wouldn’t this be considered clinical? The two may be overlapping, such that the behavior therapy facilitates better clinical care and vice versa

 

[LizzyM]

If the OP is working in a setting where the patient is also receiving psychiatric care in addition to his/her behavioral therapy, wouldn’t this be considered clinical? The two may be overlapping, such that the behavior therapy facilitates better clinical care and vice versa

by that logic, every teacher in a school with a health clinic is involved in something we could call "clinical care". Clearly, that argument does not fly. That said, for all the talk of "cookie cutter applicants" here is a chance to be distinctive by doing something because you recognize the importance of behavioral therapy for children with autism and your desire to provide that very necessary service at this point in your life but with a career goal of someday being a physician.

This job could help not by checking a box but showing that you think and work outside the checkboxes (as well as having the requisite clinical exposure such that you know what will be expected of you as a physician).

 

[Goro]

I'm going to push back against this pretty strongly. Yes, an applicant needs to check off X clinical hours and Y volunteering hours as a minimum to show that they A) know what they're getting themselves into, and B) have at least a shred of altruism in their body, respectively. But it's overly reductive to suggest that those are the ONLY things that matter in the med school application process.

There is absolutely value in having a "real world job" before applying to med school, and doubly so when it is clearly a job that is adjacent to medicine like this job would be. In an interview setting I could imagine the OP being able to more clearly articulate an interest in, say, pediatrics or psychiatry based on this experience. There is a level of responsibility that comes with holding down a job that doesn't exist when you're "just volunteering," particularly in a job that would require critical thinking and direct person-to-person interaction.

So, yes the OP needs to check the boxes in some other way, and if they still need to study for the MCAT then they need to make sure they aren't overexerting themselves. But assuming they can do that, this is the kind of experience that can really help an application stand out from all of the hundreds of applicants who got 1000 hours scribing in the ER. There is nothing wrong with scribing, but the applicants who did that kind of all sound the same in an interview, whereas the OP will definitely have a unique and memorable background.

I want to follow up on my colleague's sage words with the observation that for many medical school graduates, residency is the first job they ever have. And as such, they (and even MS3s and MS4s) do not bring to the table good employee skills, like showing up on time, leaving work before they're supposed to, and asking for days off so they can attend their cousin's wedding when they've only just started working.

So having work experience is a good thing from an admissions viewpoints. Personally, I think all candidates for medical school should have a year's worth of employment. And not in mom or dad's practice either.

 

[LiteralLungs]

by that logic, every teacher in a school with a health clinic is involved in something we could call "clinical care". Clearly, that argument does not fly. That said, for all the talk of "cookie cutter applicants" here is a chance to be distinctive by doing something because you recognize the importance of behavioral therapy for children with autism and your desire to provide that very necessary service at this point in your life but with a career goal of someday being a physician.

This job could help not by checking a box but showing that you think and work outside the checkboxes (as well as having the requisite clinical exposure such that you know what will be expected of you as a physician).

I'm still confused by this. Teachers are not involved in students' clinical care at schools, whereas a behavioral therapist might be directly involved in this care. The OP probably communicates daily with the medical staff because the behavioral conditions he/she is treating are largely influenced by the psychiatric diagnoses, and vice versa. For example, He/she must be aware and know how to react if the kid has a seizure (correlation between epilepsy and autism). The OP likely also helps the kids learn ADLs, and thus smells the patients.

 

[Kokonaut]

Hello everyone I applied for a job as a behavioral therapist for autistic children. The reason I applied is because I want to help autistic children in the same way that my autistic cousin was helped.

I just want to know if this counts as good clinical experience? It can’t count for volunteering experience because it’s paid but will this count as clinical experience?

I'll share my perspective given that I'm not an adcom or physician. However, I worked in a similar capacity when I was in undergrad, guess they called it a developmental therapy worker. Anyways, it can be a great opportunity both to be able to work with individuals and families. There is clearly an opportunity for advocacy embedded in this position. Coincidentally many of the individuals I worked with also had medical comorbidities such as diabetes that they needed assistance in managing. Now did I administer medications or would I equate that to bedside care? No. However, it can give you a unique point of understanding some of the challenges of managing health in the community with vulnerable populations.

 

[LizzyM]

A child in a learning environment is not a patient. A child in a classroom can have a risk for seizures or diabetic ketoacidosis or any number of other problems. That does not make the teacher a clinician. The behavioral therapist is providing behavioral therapy because the child has a neuropsych condition that requires therapy.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I'm still confused by this. Teachers are not involved in students' clinical care at schools, whereas a behavioral therapist might be directly involved in this care. The OP probably communicates daily with the medical staff because the behavioral conditions he/she is treating are largely influenced by the psychiatric diagnoses, and vice versa. For example, He/she must be aware and know how to react if the kid has a seizure (correlation between epilepsy and autism). The OP likely also helps the kids learn ADLs, and thus smells the patients.

I agree with the point above, in general therapy is not administered in a clinical setting nor is therapy directed by a physician. Put plainly, you don’t gain a picture of what it means to be a physician by doing this job. So while I agree it's an important and relevant experience, it isn't clinical.

 

[Goro]

I agree with the point above, in general therapy is not administered in a clinical setting nor is therapy directed by a physician. Put plainly, you don’t gain a picture of what it means to be a physician by doing this job. So while I agree it's an important and relevant experience, it isn't clinical.

It's an especially important experience because it puts one up front with a very vulnerable population, clinical or not. Very few pre-meds directly confront our mortality. This is why I have a special affinity for candidates who have worked in hospice or with the developmentally or mentally disabled.

 

[LiteralLungs]

A child in a learning environment is not a patient. A child in a classroom can have a risk for seizures or diabetic ketoacidosis or any number of other problems. That does not make the teacher a clinician. The behavioral therapist is providing behavioral therapy because the child has a neuropsych condition that requires therapy.

I agree with the point above, in general therapy is not administered in a clinical setting nor is therapy directed by a physician. Put plainly, you don’t gain a picture of what it means to be a physician by doing this job. So while I agree it's an important and relevant experience, it isn't clinical.

Sorry to continue this thread, but would a physician being present make it clinical? Because I know that ABA service treatment teams often include ABA therapists, a board certified behavior analyst, administrators, and clinicians (pediatricians, neurologists, psychiatrists)

 

[GoSpursGo]

It's an especially important experience because it puts one up front with a very vulnerable population, clinical or not. Very few pre-meds directly confront our mortality. This is why I have a special affinity for candidates who have worked in hospice or with the developmentally or mentally disabled.

Agreed—again, I think I was really clear in saying this is a meaningful experience that thenOP will definitely “get credit for.” They just have to get some traditional clinical experience too.

 

[GoSpursGo]

So would a physician being present make it clinical? Because I know that ABA service treatment teams often include ABA therapists, a board certified behavior analyst, administrators, and clinicians (pediatricians, neurologists, psychiatrists)

It really just depends on the setting. But I am telling you, based on my experience as a pediatrician, that most of the time behavioral therapy is administered in a nonclinical setting. A physician may write an order for therapy, and then the therapy actually occurs in an entirely separate setting. The actual interaction between the therapist and the physicians are often pretty minimal.

 

[LizzyM]

As a general rule, it is far better to call something "non-clinical" and let the adcom give you brownie points for something that is somewhat clinical in their opinion than to call some thing clinical and find that an adcom member reading your application doesn't buy that description and thinks that it is inflated.

 

[KnightDoc]

I'm going to push back against this pretty strongly. Yes, an applicant needs to check off X clinical hours and Y volunteering hours as a minimum to show that they A) know what they're getting themselves into, and B) have at least a shred of altruism in their body, respectively. But it's overly reductive to suggest that those are the ONLY things that matter in the med school application process.

There is absolutely value in having a "real world job" before applying to med school, and doubly so when it is clearly a job that is adjacent to medicine like this job would be. In an interview setting I could imagine the OP being able to more clearly articulate an interest in, say, pediatrics or psychiatry based on this experience. There is a level of responsibility that comes with holding down a job that doesn't exist when you're "just volunteering," particularly in a job that would require critical thinking and direct person-to-person interaction.

So, yes the OP needs to check the boxes in some other way, and if they still need to study for the MCAT then they need to make sure they aren't overexerting themselves. But assuming they can do that, this is the kind of experience that can really help an application stand out from all of the hundreds of applicants who got 1000 hours scribing in the ER. There is nothing wrong with scribing, but the applicants who did that kind of all sound the same in an interview, whereas the OP will definitely have a unique and memorable background.

I agree with you 1,000%, and think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I did not say those are the only things that matter. I said that if the only reason OP was considering engaging in the activity was to check the box, then he needed to reconsider, since doing it would not eliminate the need to check the box.

 

[candbgirl]

I'm still confused by this. Teachers are not involved in students' clinical care at schools, whereas a behavioral therapist might be directly involved in this care. The OP probably communicates daily with the medical staff because the behavioral conditions he/she is treating are largely influenced by the psychiatric diagnoses, and vice versa. For example, He/she must be aware and know how to react if the kid has a seizure (correlation between epilepsy and autism). The OP likely also helps the kids learn ADLs, and thus smells the patients.

This is not necessarily true. My sister teaches at a Chicago Public School that has kids on vents, trachs , gtubes, need cathererizing, oxygen, take medication throughout the day , some have 1:1 nurses, etc.. I know this is a very different population but underneath all of the “stuff” they are kids going to school with teachers and the support staff they need to be successful. I’m sure some would consider this a clinical setting. But it isn’t. It’s a school with kids and teachers. The teachers and nurses and therapists and other staff are highly trained in seizure protocol, CPR, ALS, and other emergency procedures. They do ADL activities daily as part of the curriculum for different grades. But the bottom line is it’s a school, liscensed by the state and city for educational purposes not clinical purposes.

 

[YCAGA]

This is not necessarily true. My sister teaches at a Chicago Public School that has kids on vents, trachs , gtubes, need cathererizing, oxygen, take medication throughout the day , some have 1:1 nurses, etc.. I know this is a very different population but underneath all of the “stuff” they are kids going to school with teachers and the support staff they need to be successful. I’m sure some would consider this a clinical setting. But it isn’t. It’s a school with kids and teachers. The teachers and nurses and therapists and other staff are highly trained in seizure protocol, CPR, ALS, and other emergency procedures. They do ADL activities daily as part of the curriculum for different grades. But the bottom line is it’s a school, liscensed by the state and city for educational purposes not clinical purposes.

The nurses are definitely doing a clinical job (management of every type of tube is bread and butter nursing). But I think you are saying that the teachers are not doing clinical jobs which I agree with.

 

[YCAGA]

Clinical experience in terms of AMCAS? I would just put paid, non-clinical employment and let adcom's decide if it is clinical enough in their minds.

The better question is: "will this experience make me a better clinician?" And I would say absolutely.

 

[SkiTheGhee0726]

Hello everyone I applied for a job as a behavioral therapist for autistic children. The reason I applied is because I want to help autistic children in the same way that my autistic cousin was helped.

I just want to know if this counts as good clinical experience? It can’t count for volunteering experience because it’s paid but will this count as clinical experience?

I have been in this job for over a year and the schools I have talked to treat it as clinical experience. It’s kind of school dependent but I have found it really valuable experience with a challenging patient population. Also, while shadowing I have had conversations with doctors about Autism and ABA because they get little education and experience on the subject.