Behind the curtain - what happens after your interview

[beyond all hope]

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This is not a secret so I'm not blowing open any doors. I just want you to know what happens after you interview.

When we interview you, we're just looking to start a conversation with someone we'd like to be working with for the next 3-4 years. We're also considering people that may be interested in helping with research, or people that bring unique backgrounds/skills/interests to the table.

Drop any pretense of trying to impress us with your knowledge, etc. We've seen it all before and we can read your resume. You'll impress us much more by just being real. If you seem honest with your answers, and are genuinely excited about something that we're interested in, you're going to earn a lot of points. Don't pretend be super-excited about everything (unless you're just one of those people). That comes off as fake and then I can't trust anything you say.

Afterwards (at least at my current program) the interviewers sit together and discuss interviewees. Depending on class rank/scores, etc, they start off as low, middle or high. The interview can bump them up or down. A stellar applicant can move to the bottom if they're stiff and unapproachable, and a low scorer can move way up if they're a normal well-adjusted person.

Occasionally we even send letters/emails to our top candidates in the hopes that they'll rank us highly.

Remember we want you as much as you want us. When you come in with that confidence, the interviews are much more enjoyable.

 

[SolidGold]

Thanks for sharing this, although it isn't much of a secret it's reassuring to know about what does happen behind the curtain from more "inside sources."

One question that you might not have an answer to: Do you know of some programs that send out letters to everyone they interview?

 

[Jimmy1]

Thanks for that post!

 

[DrQuinn]

Beyond-

Did you and your program do away with the black balls versus the white balls in the fish bowl ceremony?

😉

Q

 

[c15767]

Another thing, don't say you are interested in our program b/c: 1. Your boyfriend/ girlfriend lives here. 2. I've lived in X part of the country my whole life and want to live here for a while. Your answer to this question should be something specific about the program ie "I want to be involved in indigent care". Follow it up with "I am looking across the country for programs similar to yours." If your interviewing at a county program, throw out some names of other county programs you are interviewing with (even if its not true, we will never know). Nothing moves you to the bottom of an interview/match list faster than when you focus on location and minimize specific program attributes.

 

[beyond all hope]

Interviews are actually a secret torture device designed by Caligula.

All our decisions are made by Jojo the monkey. He defecates on the applicants deserve to be in our program, and he picks his nose at ones that don't.

Being the youngest attending, I have to clean Jojo's cage. Sometimes he gets amorous at night.

I hate Jojo.

 

[wadoc]

Follow it up with "I am looking across the country for programs similar to yours." If your interviewing at a county program, throw out some names of other county programs you are interviewing with (even if its not true, we will never know). Nothing moves you to the bottom of an interview/match list faster than when you focus on location and minimize specific program attributes.

So if you tell them you're looking all over the country for similar programs, and this program was in a less desirable area (ie, midwest, south), why would it be bad to tell the interviewer a reason you would go to their program? At almost every interview, I've been asked what I think of the location and do I have ties to the area--at desirable and less desirable locations.

 

[CueDoc]

I think there is alot of truth to the other post about location vs. program specifics. But, I have been asked this as well and I think some programs are trying to find out if you thought about whether or not you would be happy in that region.

 

[beyond all hope]

You should show genuine interest in a program. However, it doesn't hurt to like living where the program is located. Obviously, if that's your only reason for expressing interest in a program, that's not a good thing.

Some out of the way places (like where I'm at right now on Long Island) draw people that like that particular lifestyle. Multi-child suburbanites will have a hard time living in Manhattan, nor do you want partying single people in BF nowhere.

 

[membsr-8890]

If your interviewing at a county program, throw out some names of other county programs you are interviewing with (even if its not true, we will never know). Nothing moves you to the bottom of an interview/match list faster than when you focus on location and minimize specific program attributes.

I'm glad to hear that your program is so open an advocate of lying in the interview. Though I do agree that you should have insight beyond location as to your specific interest in the programs to which you are applying, I think it is completely unethical to lie in an interview just to convey extra interest.

I recognize that candidates have to play the game, but making **** up takes it too far.

 

[morgaleese]

Nothing moves you to the bottom of an interview/match list faster than when you focus on location and minimize specific program attributes.

Maybe your program has this philosophy, but your statement does not represent the opinions of all programs. If an applicant is married, has a family or other significant commitment geography may be very important, and THAT'S OK. A lot of us ER docs have a life outside of EM, it's what makes us interesting, so you don't have to live and breathe for getting into "THE BEST" program and sacrifice the support system you may have somewhere else in the country. There are great programs all over the country, so you can consider geography and not be looked upon with disdain.

You also don't have to portray yourself as wearing "county program" underwear to impress a county program. Any bonus points you think you will gain by lying and saying you are interviewing at places you are not will quickly be lost when one PD talks to another "Hey we interviewed so-and-so, what did you think of them?" "Who???" (there's this little thing called CORD-Council of Residency Directors-and there is an active back and forth between PDs all the time. At this time of year, you can guess applicants come up). Don't lie in your interviews, period. That advice was so slippery I nearly broke a hip.

Finally, to answer a different, earlier entry, there are a lot of programs that do not send letters or make phone calls after the interview. Our program has never done that, for philosophical reasons. So don't assume if you don't hear anything that you didn't do well.

 

[c15767]

I am giving you an idea of what actually happens behind closed doors, not implying that it is logical. If you want to do well on interviews these are things you should not do. In meetings after the interview session we discuss different candidates focusing solely on their inteview that day. They are given red/ yellow/ green based solely on the interview. For example a solid applicant interviewed and the only reason she gave for wanting to come here is b/c her boyfriends job is nearby and he can't move. She did not give any specifics about the program. This person was interviewed by a total of 3 different people who all got the impression that she had no interest in what this program offered, only location. She was given red and was not ranked. Another person interviewed that day with borderline USMLE scores, lower class rank, less prestigious med school. She stated very specific reasons for wanting to come to the program ie: I want to work with so and so faculty members, I am interested in your EMS program, ect. She was given a green b/c all the interviewers got the impression she liked what the program had to offer and was well informed. She may not match given the other blemishes on her academic record, but she will be on the list unlike the previous candidate. I'm not saying its fair, but this is what happens.

Do not say that you have interviewed somewhere you haven't. That's a bad idea and you may get caught. You can say I've put in applications at so and so program and are waiting to hear back. The PD will routinely call a program where you have rotated to get feedback. I doubt they would call another program where you have only interviewed.

As far wearing county underwear (not really sure what that means) it is important. County programs like applicants who have rotated thru a county type elective clerkship. If you tell me you have rotated thru UCS/ Cook county/ Highland ect, you loved your experience and performed well, it's highly likely you will thrive in a county type environment. If you rotated thru a more cush, ivory tower type program there is more risk you may not be happy at a county program. During our post interview meeting these things are brought up. A question is asked "Can you see so and so applicant managing the entire department, effectively advocating for an admission, and managing the angry meth addict who is tweeking". Often the answers these questions is "no I don't see this applicant being able to handle these things". They are given red and no longer considered. While this may not be fair, it happens.

It is not a detriment to have family ties to a location, it is a benefit. My only advice is not to overplay it. When asked the question "why do you want to attend residency here". Your first answer should not be b/c your parents live right down the street and can do your laundry. Your reasoning should be program first then location. Trust me, people are not ranked if the interviewers feel the applicant has a minimal interest in the program.

I am not saying the process is fair or logical, but this is what happens.

 

[2008 EM Reviews]

In the interest of efficiency I thought I would revive this thread for a specific question.

How should I view letters of interest in general? Can I assume that if I got one I am highly ranked with them? Are there programs who send them out to everyone? If they really like me will they take me to homecoming or treat me extra nice if I decide to go there?

I got one from a program who I believe that due to a recent curriculum change, may have trouble filing with quality people. (read into that what you will, not naming names) Still, it was hand signed by both the chair and PD.

I interviewed at another program that said they will not contact applicants after they interview as they believe it to be unethical. They stated that because the depth to which a program must go down their rank list to fill becomes public knowledge, much jockying (sp?) is done on their part to shorten their list and thus be perceived as more competitive. Stated differently, some programs will exaggerate interest in applicants to get ranked higher on people's lists.

Food for thought....

PS: To PD's reading, I think it works. While it can be rationalized intellectually, it is hard to divest the emotional component of the affirmation one feels when receiving said love letter. Though bribes would be better.

 

[Baditude]

I am glad to hear that programs look beyond the numbers. I am one of those people who don't test particularly well on standardized test but has great hands on skills. Plus I have a lot of years working with the public (in another non-medical field). I have had a love for EM for many years now and I have always feared that as it is a competitive field I would not measure up if only test scores were looked at. This post gives me hope anyway!