Being details oriented

[Deleted member 737595]

I have never been a very detail oriented person. I was never taught to be meticulous and careful as a child, and while I was nagged a lot to clean up after myself and keep tidy, it was never strict and I tend to be a bit sloppy sometimes. This is compounded by the fact that I behave a lot on impulse and generally do not premeditate every action. The reason I bring this up is, physicians and surgeons are supposed to be detailed, meticulous, thought out, planned, calculated, and calm under pressure. I seem to not possess any of these naturally. I need to really try and be reminded to be careful, meticulous, think things through et cetera.

This really bothers me, because I know people who are my opposite, for example, at work. There is a scientist I work with who is careful to a fault. He keeps an incredibly neat and detailed notebook, uses excellent sterile technique in tissue culturing, and does everything slowly and carefully so as to not make any careless mistakes. He takes longer in doing things but his results are textbook perfect, even if they are inconclusive or are simply describing something very simple.

Let me give you a few examples which have bothered me about my clumsiness:

-crashed my motorcycle against a wall because I was trying to get it over a sidewalk while off the bike and lost control of the accelerator. Then proceeded to park with the central stand and crashed the rear end light and jacked it up
-forgot to label some tubes in the lab (happens all the time to me)
-contaminate plates in the lab because I take it out too early. I get impatient.

Where a physician is supposed to be patient and careful, I am always impatient and sloppy.

Does being details oriented come with experience or is it a natural ability? Has anyone experienced similar things to me? Does it make sense to pursue a profession and field where careful and thoughtful approaches are necessary?

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[sapientnarwhal]

I share the same issues. I have been told by many role models / mentors to be less self-critical. I attempt to exercise restraint and self-control in the small everyday tasks i.e. considering the consequences of doing/not doing something, and acting according to my best judgement. We are only human, and some are more prone to careless mistakes than others - myself included. Sloppiness and impatience are certainly not core personality traits, and can be easily ameliorated through conscious efforts.

Also a physician is not a one man team, there are plenty of other professionals and support staff to provide QC. Additionally physicians don't train for 10+ years for nothing, you're bound to pick it up along the away (not my words, just paraphrased from credible figures of authority in my life).

Don't stress over what you can't change. Don't stress over the things you can change, because you can change them!

 

[moggat]

It's something that you're going to have to consciously practice. You're not going to magically graduate med school and all of a sudden be a conscientious, careful doctor. It's something that you're going to have to work hard at, but at least you're conscious of it now. Everyone forgets to mislabel their tubes or plates in labs....once. The pain of having to repeat an experiment (or multiple experiments) if often enough to ensure it doesn't happen too often. Maybe start by following the lead of the guy in your lab who does everything perfectly. Work with him a while and keep to his standards--that's how I got better. It's a matter of always being aware of what you are doing and devoting enough of your time and energy to do it right, and it's going to require learning discipline. Fortunately, if you work at it long enough, it becomes second nature--and you're lucky that you figured it out before medschool, so you have time to practice 🙂

 

[Deleted member 737595]

It's something that you're going to have to consciously practice. You're not going to magically graduate med school and all of a sudden be a conscientious, careful doctor. It's something that you're going to have to work hard at, but at least you're conscious of it now. Everyone forgets to mislabel their tubes or plates in labs....once. The pain of having to repeat an experiment (or multiple experiments) if often enough to ensure it doesn't happen too often. Maybe start by following the lead of the guy in your lab who does everything perfectly. Work with him a while and keep to his standards--that's how I got better. It's a matter of always being aware of what you are doing and devoting enough of your time and energy to do it right, and it's going to require learning discipline. Fortunately, if you work at it long enough, it becomes second nature--and you're lucky that you figured it out before medschool, so you have time to practice 🙂

Thanks this is helpful. With the mislabeling thing, I mean fully labeling with date, initials, concentration et cetera. Sometimes I'm just lazy and put a number but then my supervisor will remind me that I need to label better.

 

[sapientnarwhal]

You don't know how many times I neglected to keep detailed records and notes in my lab notebook, thinking I would remember them. I may not forget in that week, but it eventually bites me in the ass months down the road.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

I was the exact same way. I’ve broken countless things and I’m always losing things as well. Try this:

Try slowly and build your way up. A perfect thing to try first on is brushing your teeth. Make sure to brush very neatly, trying as perfectly as you can to focus on one row of teeth at a time and slowly transitioning to another row. Then do the same thing with driving. Try to stay exactly in the middle of the lane as much as you can. These things help you build up graceful precision that later reflects in your other tasks.

A HUGE confounding factor is impatience. For me personally, the fact that I’m impatient causes me to do things unnecessarily fast. This causes me to be clumsy.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Don’t have a ton of advice, but my wife will tell you I am a complete slob. I have a pile of clothes and **** between my side of the bed and the window that she calls my pit of despair. My truck had fruit flies in it from the banana I left in there for days.

But at work, I am meticulous and extremely detail oriented. So it can be turned on and off. It just takes practice.

 

[Goro]

Thanks this is helpful. With the mislabeling thing, I mean fully labeling with date, initials, concentration et cetera. Sometimes I'm just lazy and put a number but then my supervisor will remind me that I need to label better.

If you're going to continue in this person's lab, or do any other lab work, you owe it to them to start behaving responsibly. What's your PI going to do when, two years from now, he needs your samples, and goes to the freezer, only to find numbers that make no sense???? This isn't being just lazy and careless, it's also sabotage.


This is compounded by the fact that I behave a lot on impulse and generally do not premeditate every action.
These are behaviors that are not conducive to a successful med school candidate, much less a successful medical student.

-contaminate plates in the lab because I take it out too early. I get impatient.
I can't sugar coat this: this isn't merely being impatient, it's being immature.

Join the National Guard or the Army/Navy Reserves. You'll grow up in a hurry. Failing that, get a job in service industry.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Join the National Guard or the Army/Navy Reserves. You'll grow up in a hurry. Failing that, get a job in service industry.

Can confirm.

 

[Oso]

-forgot to label some tubes in the lab (happens all the time to me)
-contaminate plates in the lab because I take it out too early. I get impatient.

Where a physician is supposed to be patient and careful, I am always impatient and sloppy.

Does being details oriented come with experience or is it a natural ability? Has anyone experienced similar things to me? Does it make sense to pursue a profession and field where careful and thoughtful approaches are necessary?

To me, there is a big difference between the two bolded sentences. The first is more or less carelessness, which can be worked on. The second is immaturity, perhaps laziness.

I also am not the most detail oriented, OCD-ish person (in fact I used to and sometimes still get annoyed by these types of people). I like to just go with the flow. So I hard to consciously work on ways to become more organized and efficient.

For example, on the wards, I make check lists for everything and update it a million times a day. Everyone learns how to become more organized and efficient as you pick up little tips from people here and there through training, but you need to be motivated enough to actually implement those strategies and try to get better. There's a difference between a person saying "shoot, I forgot to check this lab because I was busy running around, next time I'll add it to my list" and another saying "I forgot to follow up on that lab but eh I'm sure it's fine, someone else will let me know if it's abnormal". The first person wants to get better and will likely improve. The second person doesn't really seem to care and will not get better, which is bad, because they will actually just get worse as their level of responsibility increases as time goes on (assuming they are allowed to go on...)

tl;dr: some people are innately super detail oriented; good for them. If you are not, like I am not, consciously work on it - the sooner you start the better.

 

[Deleted member 737595]

Thanks this is helpful. With the mislabeling thing, I mean fully labeling with date, initials, concentration et cetera. Sometimes I'm just lazy and put a number but then my supervisor will remind me that I need to label better.

If you're going to continue in this person's lab, or do any other lab work, you owe it to them to start behaving responsibly. What's your PI going to do when, two years from now, he needs your samples, and goes to the freezer, only to find numbers that make no sense???? This isn't being just lazy and careless, it's also sabotage.


This is compounded by the fact that I behave a lot on impulse and generally do not premeditate every action.
These are behaviors that are not conducive to a successful med school candidate, much less a successful medical student.

-contaminate plates in the lab because I take it out too early. I get impatient.
I can't sugar coat this: this isn't merely being impatient, it's being immature.

Join the National Guard or the Army/Navy Reserves. You'll grow up in a hurry. Failing that, get a job in service industry.

I guess my issue is not laziness now that I think about it. My issue is having a ton of tasks to do and forgetting to finish things, and deferring till later. My issue is more with going to completion with things not out of laziness, but out of me going "good enough for now, I'll finish that later when I have time," and then I'll forget.

This has been more pronounced recently because I've been given a lot more to do finally, which is great, but I'm trying to figure out how to be thorough and concentrated on the task at hand.

 

[grateful_phys]

It is definitely something you learn/practice. I didn't used to be at all. I had a lab mentor who was soooo meticulous and she nagged on me so much that it actually turned me into an "OCD" like person. I am now a lab manager and pay attention to things I would have never thought I would have, and I have an impulse for organization/neatness. I think it is something you can work on, you just have to work on recognizing things.

 

[grateful_phys]

I guess my issue is not laziness now that I think about it. My issue is having a ton of tasks to do and forgetting to finish things, and deferring till later. My issue is more with going to completion with things not out of laziness, but out of me going "good enough for now, I'll finish that later when I have time," and then I'll forget.

This has been more pronounced recently because I've been given a lot more to do finally, which is great, but I'm trying to figure out how to be thorough and concentrated on the task at hand.

Make lists. I keep a piece of paper on the front with personal stuff I have to take care of, and on the back: work responsibilities. I literally have to write down stuff or I will forget, but it helps. It's simple too.

 

[Deleted member 737595]

Make lists. I keep a piece of paper on the front with personal stuff I have to take care of, and on the back: work responsibilities. I literally have to write down stuff or I will forget, but it helps. It's simple too.

I will have to start doing this. Carry a field notes book around everywhere so I don't forget.

At least I'm recognizing there is a problem here.

 

[Medic741]

I have never been a very detail oriented person. I was never taught to be meticulous and careful as a child, and while I was nagged a lot to clean up after myself and keep tidy, it was never strict and I tend to be a bit sloppy sometimes. This is compounded by the fact that I behave a lot on impulse and generally do not premeditate every action. The reason I bring this up is, physicians and surgeons are supposed to be detailed, meticulous, thought out, planned, calculated, and calm under pressure. I seem to not possess any of these naturally. I need to really try and be reminded to be careful, meticulous, think things through et cetera.

This really bothers me, because I know people who are my opposite, for example, at work. There is a scientist I work with who is careful to a fault. He keeps an incredibly neat and detailed notebook, uses excellent sterile technique in tissue culturing, and does everything slowly and carefully so as to not make any careless mistakes. He takes longer in doing things but his results are textbook perfect, even if they are inconclusive or are simply describing something very simple.

Let me give you a few examples which have bothered me about my clumsiness:

-crashed my motorcycle against a wall because I was trying to get it over a sidewalk while off the bike and lost control of the accelerator. Then proceeded to park with the central stand and crashed the rear end light and jacked it up
-forgot to label some tubes in the lab (happens all the time to me)
-contaminate plates in the lab because I take it out too early. I get impatient.

Where a physician is supposed to be patient and careful, I am always impatient and sloppy.

Does being details oriented come with experience or is it a natural ability? Has anyone experienced similar things to me? Does it make sense to pursue a profession and field where careful and thoughtful approaches are necessary?

Thing 1... *stop riding a motorcycle*. You should never drop your bike... this will get you killed if you're this unaware of your surroundings.
-Someone who's put down ~30k miles on loaded enduro bikes... a lot of that on dirt...

Not going to sugar coat this. You overcome this kind of behavior by growing up and taking your tasks seriously.

Mental checklists can be really helpful, especially doing complex tasks the same exact way every time. That way, when you get distracted you have good habits to fall back on.

But please, please stop riding your bike.

 

[Deleted member 737595]

Thing 1... *stop riding a motorcycle*. You should never drop your bike... this will get you killed if you're this unaware of your surroundings.
-Someone who's put down ~30k miles on loaded enduro bikes... a lot of that on dirt...

Not going to sugar coat this. You overcome this kind of behavior by growing up and taking your tasks seriously.

Mental checklists can be really helpful, especially doing complex tasks the same exact way every time. That way, when you get distracted you have good habits to fall back on.

But please, please stop riding your bike.

I'm not going to stop riding it haha. Thanks for the warning, but that ain't happening. I just got it not too long ago. And I didn't drop the bike, I just hit it against a wall by accident.

Yes, I need to take stuff more seriously, this is true.

 

[maplecookie]

I will have to start doing this. Carry a field notes book around everywhere so I don't forget.

At least I'm recognizing there is a problem here.

Lists are great! But from what I'm reading so far, I'd be worried that you would keep forgetting your notebook or something which makes the thing obsolete; I would recommend keeping notes on your phone since I assume you have that on your person or in your vicinity at all times

Try to make a habit of writing down things as soon as you think of it and checking it regularly, also of breaking down lists into doable pieces. For example, for lab I'll have a master list of things I have going on but then from that make a daily list of things to be done so a reasonable thing to do would be: come in the morning and consult master list to make a mini list of things to do that particular day (for me paper is better so I'll write it down and stick it in my pocket), go through it and also add to the mini list as things develop throughout the day, at the end of the day I'll compare my mini list to my master list and update (cross off things that are done, add things that I had made a note of in my mini list)
Hope that made sense and is helpful!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I'm not going to stop riding it haha. Thanks for the warning, but that ain't happening. I just got it not too long ago. And I didn't drop the bike, I just hit it against a wall by accident.

Yes, I need to take stuff more seriously, this is true.

Your (dumb) choice. I’ve had many patients and friends injured on motorcycles through no fault of their own. A shipmate of mine was in the icu for a month after getting t-boned by a drunk who ran a red light. Not sure why someone who is admittedly clumsy and lacks attention to detail would willingly put themselves in a situation where being even a little distracted can get you killed.

 

[getdown]

The question you need to ask yourself should be "how would you like to be treated when you're a patient"? Do you want a doctor who's impatient/lazy/careless when they see you and just tosses out a diagnosis or treatment without any consideration just because they were too impatient to listen to your problem(s)? Or do you want someone who will listen and treat you appropriately? Do you not believe that patients should be treated with the same respect you expect of yourself?

My one thing I hate the most from a resident is someone who doesn't care and is lazy. Incompetence I can work with as long as they show eagerness to improve but I absolutely hate those who are lazy. That is a personality disorder that cannot be fixed through repetition. Maybe this comes from my field where attention to detail is very important and sloppiness can kill. Maybe it comes from knowing that this person may one day have to take care of myself or my family members. It's easy to forget patients do have family and loved ones and focus on the task at hand to get through the day. But you owe it to them and their family members your undivided attention each time.

 

[Deleted member 737595]

The question you need to ask yourself should be "how would you like to be treated when you're a patient"? Do you want a doctor who's impatient/lazy/careless when they see you and just tosses out a diagnosis or treatment without any consideration just because they were too impatient to listen to your problem(s)? Or do you want someone who will listen and treat you appropriately? Do you not believe that patients should be treated with the same respect you expect of yourself?

My one thing I hate the most from a resident is someone who doesn't care and is lazy. Incompetence I can work with as long as they show eagerness to improve but I absolutely hate those who are lazy. That is a personality disorder that cannot be fixed through repetition. Maybe this comes from my field where attention to detail is very important and sloppiness can kill. Maybe it comes from knowing that this person may one day have to take care of myself or my family members. It's easy to forget patients do have family and loved ones and focus on the task at hand to get through the day. But you owe it to them and their family members your undivided attention each time.

Thanks. This is so true and hits home. I'm going to make a point to my manager tomorrow when I start work that I've been sloppy in the past but I'm going to make up for that by being on top of things. I think the best way to proceed now is to prove that I can be trusted to do difficult careful tasks. Its just a matter of mind.