Being too gung-ho from the start...does it look bad

[Gunneria]

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Trying to draw the line between demonstrating genuine interest vs. being too gung-ho in derm (as a first year) in the eyes of my peers, faculty, and derm faculty at my med school and im coming from a med school where so far it feels like where most classmates dont know what they want to do and are just starting to explore...I guess the issue is Ive just been in the mindset (even before med school) of well ur gonna eventually choose one specialty so choose one you genuinely enjoy and put all ur eggs into one basket and the more competitive is, the more you might try to get out of it.

So as of now, I definitely feel fortunate and lucky as a first year but is it weird to have published several articles (>5) in derm (...several in jaad) + shadowing the derm residency chair head at ur med school (preceptorship elective) on a weekly basis as a + anticipating on doing a summer research project with one of the derm faculty. While I can be honest and say I haven't given the exploration time in the other specialties in medicine after shadowing a couple including derm, I sorta feel like I am overfilling the derm CV basket but then I also realize damn ive been pretty lucky to get the opportunities so I should seize all of them especially when the basket for derm could never be filled given the field's competitiveness...Socially, though, ive been a pretty laid back (choosing derm early and the pubs, etc...) about it in med school with my peers but I hope its not an issue when the residency faculty are like wow ur a clown who overdid it with the research and getting to know the faculty too well parts. Basically outside of the "academic-grades+ AOA status" I hope its been more of a positive thing of optimizing the "connections" and "research" part of the match process so early in the game.

Overall, its an odd question on my end to ask and maybe its just the stigma of the derm specialty out of all the medical specialties and especially deciding on it so early...but I guess the other question I want to ask, if it was an issue at all for some of you, is how did you guys handle the pressure of justifying your interest in derm so early with your peers, faculty, etc...

 

[RadOncDoc21]

As you can probably tell I'm not in Dermatology and couldn't tell you specifically how it may apply to your situation but I want to say first of all congratulations for your achievements thus far!

I think if you really want to pursue Derm and you can see yourself in the field, you should continue to work hard and not worry about commitment or failure. It is obvious that Derm is an extremely competitive field and if by some chance you decide its not for you or you didn't match, other fields will take you in a heart beat, if you continue to achieve success. As far as peers go, it is most likely you will never hear from your classmates again and some of them may not have your best interest in mind, so you got to do what you have to do for yourself.

So bottom line, if you found a field that truly interest you and you have been blessed with great mentors and opportunities, by all means go for it.

Good luck!

-R

 

[concernedms4]

So you ask: "how did you handle the pressure of justifying your interest in derm so early with your peers, faculty, etc..."

The short answer is that I didn't show any interest early in med school. Until you're elbow deep in third year, getting hands on experience in the different fields of medicine, it's impossible to know what kind of doc you want to be when you grow up. So to walk into first or second year, gung ho about derm, no matter how well intentioned, smacks of interest in money/lifestyle/prestige and not passion for the field itself. Does this mean that you won't ultimately love derm? Of course not. Does this mean that your interest isn't heartfelt? Nope. But simply put, any first or even second year who says they want to be a dermatologist is perceived as interested in the lifestyle aspect of the field. Please don't take this to mean that I'm doubting your sincerity. All I'm saying is that at your stage, it's impossible to know what you want to do and the best thing you can do, is be low key.

P.S. yes, I am a derm resident and I wish you the best of luck

 

[Substance]

It would be sanctimonious for a program to assume you're only interested in dermatology for the money etc, just because you wanted to get experience right from the start.

Everyone knows derm is the toughest thing to match to. Strategically, getting experience and recognition in derm is better earlier rather than later. If you end up loving derm, you're golden. If not, you've still achieved research prominence and can use that towards other fields.

Or if you really wanna eff with them, do some projects in family medicine! (but not really. That would be a big waste of your time)

 

[dermathalon]

So you ask: "how did you handle the pressure of justifying your interest in derm so early with your peers, faculty, etc..."

The short answer is that I didn't show any interest early in med school. Until you're elbow deep in third year, getting hands on experience in the different fields of medicine, it's impossible to know what kind of doc you want to be when you grow up. So to walk into first or second year, gung ho about derm, no matter how well intentioned, smacks of interest in money/lifestyle/prestige and not passion for the field itself. Does this mean that you won't ultimately love derm? Of course not. Does this mean that your interest isn't heartfelt? Nope. But simply put, any first or even second year who says they want to be a dermatologist is perceived as interested in the lifestyle aspect of the field. Please don't take this to mean that I'm doubting your sincerity. All I'm saying is that at your stage, it's impossible to know what you want to do and the best thing you can do, is be low key.

P.S. yes, I am a derm resident and I wish you the best of luck

Making decisions based on the third year of medical school is too biased on the team that you are with, the patients that you happen to work with, and any other experiences that is ongoing at the time of your rotation. If you know early because of true mentoring, shadowing, and a feel for the research then this is by far a more reasonable decision, even if you know early. Obviously you should work hard on every rotation since every part of medicine overlaps with derm. You can get an early idea of hands on experience and the rotation will not guarantee that, especially if you are at a program that had primarily shadowing experiences for the rotating student.

I knew very early and made the mistake of telling non-derms that I was interested in derm (and they don't like that). It didn't hurt me in the end anyway so I got away with it and learned my lesson. So my piece of advice is that you keep that to yourself outside of dermies. Everyone that I know that knew early typically had a much much easier time with the match (20+ interviews) because they are more prepared for the journey and make the connections earlier. I knew very very early and it was the single biggest factor. Your doing the right things and it's doesn't mean that you are only doing it for money/lifestyle...again keep it to yourself on rotations or you will get reamed at one point or another.

And no, any first year or second year interested is not automatically put into a box that you are are only interested in lifestyle. I don't assume that and I know many faculty that don't assume that either. So you can't generalize that statement. I love it when students show interest early but if you come of as insincere then that's a turn off. Sorry no scientific way to say how to be genuine or not. Either you are or you're not and it's not that hard to tell.

Again, it's how you do it and not what you do.

 

[Doublecortin]

So you ask: "how did you handle the pressure of justifying your interest in derm so early with your peers, faculty, etc..."

The short answer is that I didn't show any interest early in med school. Until you're elbow deep in third year, getting hands on experience in the different fields of medicine, it's impossible to know what kind of doc you want to be when you grow up. So to walk into first or second year, gung ho about derm, no matter how well intentioned, smacks of interest in money/lifestyle/prestige and not passion for the field itself. Does this mean that you won't ultimately love derm? Of course not. Does this mean that your interest isn't heartfelt? Nope. But simply put, any first or even second year who says they want to be a dermatologist is perceived as interested in the lifestyle aspect of the field. Please don't take this to mean that I'm doubting your sincerity. All I'm saying is that at your stage, it's impossible to know what you want to do and the best thing you can do, is be low key.

P.S. yes, I am a derm resident and I wish you the best of luck

Not true, at least wasn't true for me. I told everyone that I was interested in derm from day one, and 3rd year rotations only confirmed it. I didn't have the "OMG, I love OB/GYN all of a sudden!"

Look, OP, who gives a crap what somebody thinks about your interest. Haters will be haters. You don't need to explain your interest in derm to anyone and it's no less valid than someobody's interest in family medicine. The only thing you don't want to do is to annoy people at your derm department. Start working on projects with one or two big name people at your department, maybe come to grand rounds once in a while.

 

[JDMD243.0]

Not true, at least wasn't true for me. I told everyone that I was interested in derm from day one, and 3rd year rotations only confirmed it. I didn't have the "OMG, I love OB/GYN all of a sudden!"

Look, OP, who gives a crap what somebody thinks about your interest. Haters will be haters. You don't need to explain your interest in derm to anyone and it's no less valid than someobody's interest in family medicine. The only thing you don't want to do is to annoy people at your derm department. Start working on projects with one or two big name people at your department, maybe come to grand rounds once in a while.

I think it depends on your personality and how well you get along with people. If you are obnoxious then people will be turned off to you and your ambitions. On the other hand if you are a good classmate and use your powers for good people will respect that, probably won't hurt to have that attitude for residency as well.

 

[Dral]

You're an adult now who is building his/her career. If it interests you and you like learning about what you plan on doing in the future then do what it takes.

 

[pupster]

You're an adult now who is building his/her career. If it interests you and you like learning about what you plan on doing in the future then do what it takes.

Ditto.

 

[dermathalon]

Ditto #2 to the above. Also, not showing interest early when you actually are interested is a huge mistake.

 

[pupster]

Ditto #2 to the above. Also, not showing interest early when you actually are interested is a huge mistake.

Honestly, I didn't give a rats ass who thought what about me. In the end, it's your life, and you're the one dealing w/ the consequences of matching or not matching....

 

[Dral]

Just to add a bit more, if you really are secure with going on with derm, then anything you deal with should be like water off a duck's back. It sounds like you aren't totally sure about derm as your career, but covering your bases early means that you should be prepared to get into most anything else if you change your mind.

All of us have dealt with the jabs..."Oh derm, if wet, dry it, if dry wet it". "Oh derm, Rx steroids, done". Just nod smugly and let it go... Derms know they rock and just keep keepin' on. 👍

 

[Gunneria]

thats encouraging....on an unrelated note, how should I act on preceptorships, aside from the dress code... (I assume jot down notes on a notepad and ask questions here and there), I'm actually on a small team- the derm, 2nd yr resident, 4th year med students and baby 1st year-me...so I was wondering aside from bedside manner, at what times, how deep should I be involved (basically trying to find a comfort zone/demonstrating significant interest level without sucking up)...also is 3 hours/week legit (usually one weekday afternoon)...this is sorta important? It's pretty time consuming and essentially up to me when I should head out but I have to be honest and say that the preceptorship at times eats into a lot of time especially when its the day before the exam...not trying to complain too much 🙂

 

[DadMD]

thats encouraging....on an unrelated note, how should I act on preceptorships, aside from the dress code... (I assume jot down notes on a notepad and ask questions here and there), I'm actually on a small team- the derm, 2nd yr resident, 4th year med students and baby 1st year-me...so I was wondering aside from bedside manner, at what times, how deep should I be involved (basically trying to find a comfort zone/demonstrating significant interest level without sucking up)...also is 3 hours/week legit (usually one weekday afternoon)...this is sorta important? It's pretty time consuming and essentially up to me when I should head out but I have to be honest and say that the preceptorship at times eats into a lot of time especially when its the day before the exam...not trying to complain too much 🙂

Chill out... you're thinking WAY too much.

 

[dermathalon]

Chill out... you're thinking WAY too much.

Agreed..don't overanalyze it. At your level you should be there just to enjoy it without having to worry about anything else. Let the residents and the 4th years sweat it. Head out when you need to head out, especially if you have an exam.

 

[sore eye asses]

Though it's likely that every case walking through the door is an obscure genodermatosis with 10 total cases reported globally, it's best to volunteer "maculopapular rash" as your complete differential diagnosis every time. This will allow you to overthink while convincing the attendings and residents you're underthinking, which will assuredly produce in you an over analysis of their feelings about you. This will surely produce a war in your mind between the over analysis of perceptions and the overthinking of dermatologic differentials. It is well known that these entities are evenly matched and will fight ad infintum to a stalemate. This will occupy 2-3% of your mind until you perish (if my math is right), allowing you to put the other 7-8% (more if you're that guy from Limitless) towards other daily chores, like mopping the floor, high-fiving friends, eating cheerios, and hanging out at the mall. These will balance out your life and you will become very powerful. You will not only match into derm with this newfound power, but you will match hard. I mean when you match, you will match the sh** out of that program. They will rank you #0, which means that they will hire a hitman to actually go and kill their alternate #1 because they were so much worse than you in every way.

Ok, go give ‘er a shot!

 

[dermathalon]

Though it's likely that every case walking through the door is an obscure genodermatosis with 10 total cases reported globally, it's best to volunteer "maculopapular rash" as your complete differential diagnosis every time. This will allow you to overthink while convincing the attendings and residents you're underthinking, which will assuredly produce in you an over analysis of their feelings about you. This will surely produce a war in your mind between the over analysis of perceptions and the overthinking of dermatologic differentials. It is well known that these entities are evenly matched and will fight ad infintum to a stalemate. This will occupy 2-3% of your mind until you perish (if my math is right), allowing you to put the other 7-8% (more if you're that guy from Limitless) towards other daily chores, like mopping the floor, high-fiving friends, eating cheerios, and hanging out at the mall. These will balance out your life and you will become very powerful. You will not only match into derm with this newfound power, but you will match hard. I mean when you match, you will match the sh** out of that program. They will rank you #0, which means that they will hire a hitman to actually go and kill their alternate #1 because they were so much worse than you in every way.

Ok, go give ‘er a shot!

HAHA...just freaking awesome

 

[exeunt]

Not true, at least wasn't true for me. I told everyone that I was interested in derm from day one, and 3rd year rotations only confirmed it. I didn't have the "OMG, I love OB/GYN all of a sudden!"

Look, OP, who gives a crap what somebody thinks about your interest. Haters will be haters. You don't need to explain your interest in derm to anyone and it's no less valid than someobody's interest in family medicine. The only thing you don't want to do is to annoy people at your derm department. Start working on projects with one or two big name people at your department, maybe come to grand rounds once in a while.

how much does going to grand rounds help in terms of networking? at my school, the med students don't really talk to the residents/attendings during rounds, and don't ask questions.. the cases themselves are interesting, but how much does it actually help in getting to know your department?

 

[CWWinning]

how much does going to grand rounds help in terms of networking? at my school, the med students don't really talk to the residents/attendings during rounds, and don't ask questions.. the cases themselves are interesting, but how much does it actually help in getting to know your department?

No kidding. At my school the residents walk with their nose up and look at you like what are you doing here?? Then they stick their tail between their legs when the attendings show up.

 

[Dral]

how much does going to grand rounds help in terms of networking? at my school, the med students don't really talk to the residents/attendings during rounds, and don't ask questions.. the cases themselves are interesting, but how much does it actually help in getting to know your department?

Even if you don't get to interact with them, they notice that you are there. That shows that you have interest in the field because you take time out of your schedule to make it to grand rounds.

 

[Doublecortin]

Even if you don't get to interact with them, they notice that you are there. That shows that you have interest in the field because you take time out of your schedule to make it to grand rounds.

I agree, I think if you find grand rounds genuinely interesting and come for your education rather than to try to impress people, people will notice and appreciate your interest

 

[exeunt]

I agree, I think if you find grand rounds genuinely interesting and come for your education rather than to try to impress people, people will notice and appreciate your interest

yeah, i definitely find them interesting, but would they really remember me later on if i'm not applying for another 3+ years?

 

[Doublecortin]

yeah, i definitely find them interesting, but would they really remember me later on if i'm not applying for another 3+ years?

I think so, and they'll also remember if you say or do something stupid, so it's a double-edged sword.

 

[Dral]

I think so, and they'll also remember if you say or do something stupid, so it's a double-edged sword.

Correct. So if you go to grand rounds and you're all like 😴, they be all like 😡

 

[ArtfulDodger]

Though it's likely that every case walking through the door is an obscure genodermatosis with 10 total cases reported globally, it's best to volunteer "maculopapular rash" as your complete differential diagnosis every time. This will allow you to overthink while convincing the attendings and residents you're underthinking, which will assuredly produce in you an over analysis of their feelings about you. This will surely produce a war in your mind between the over analysis of perceptions and the overthinking of dermatologic differentials. It is well known that these entities are evenly matched and will fight ad infintum to a stalemate. This will occupy 2-3% of your mind until you perish (if my math is right), allowing you to put the other 7-8% (more if you're that guy from Limitless) towards other daily chores, like mopping the floor, high-fiving friends, eating cheerios, and hanging out at the mall. These will balance out your life and you will become very powerful. You will not only match into derm with this newfound power, but you will match hard. I mean when you match, you will match the sh** out of that program. They will rank you #0, which means that they will hire a hitman to actually go and kill their alternate #1 because they were so much worse than you in every way.

Ok, go give ‘er a shot!

This is an amazing piece of work, although I must mention that I have unpublished research which shows that eating cheerios and high fiving friends already occupies a minumum of 9% of human mental capacity (and up to 9.4269% in gibbons and other lesser primates), leaving, at most, 1% for the battle between exuberant self-analysis and overthought differentials.