Ben Gurion

[James105]

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I am very interested in pursuing international health. As such, the program in Ben Gurion has recently been brought to my attention. My stats put me in a border line between DO and MD (3.9 28 MCAT). Since my goal is to become an emergency room physician, and I don't want to wait around for years to get into medical school(1. I pretty much "peaked" on my MCAT 2. I honestly don't have interest in pursuing DO because I want to have the most ablity to work overseas 3. I know DO's can work overseas but there are still limitations.) I am worried, though, that the IMG status of Ben Gurion would haunt me throughout my career. Also, I am worried that I would have difficulty getting a residency in EM (even though they seem to have a pretty competitive match list, even more inspiring than my state school!).

Is it worth the risk? I am thinking about applying to Ben Gurion and several MD programs (15) this cycle and seeing how it irons out. Would you even risk the IMG status? My goal is to work in an ER and work for an overseas organization, will Ben Gurion hinder this goal? Do you know of any resources to find more out about the school (a more critical source than the school website?)

 

[45408]

I think US students should make every attempt to stay in the US. I wouldn't start applying to foreign/Caribbean schools until your second application cycle, but that's just me.

 

[gravitywave]

your numbers put you into a cohort that comprises over a thousand matriculants each year to US allo schools. two/thirds of you get in.

apply broadly, apply smart, and i agree with Prowler that you shouldn't apply overseas your first cycle. have you got a good state school option? that's likely where you'll end up.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I am very interested in pursuing international health. As such, the program in Ben Gurion has recently been brought to my attention. My stats put me in a border line between DO and MD (3.9 28 MCAT). Since my goal is to become an emergency room physician, and I don't want to wait around for years to get into medical school(1. I pretty much "peaked" on my MCAT 2. I honestly don't have interest in pursuing DO because I want to have the most ablity to work overseas 3. I know DO's can work overseas but there are still limitations.) I am worried, though, that the IMG status of Ben Gurion would haunt me throughout my career. Also, I am worried that I would have difficulty getting a residency in EM (even though they seem to have a pretty competitive match list, even more inspiring than my state school!).

Is it worth the risk? I am thinking about applying to Ben Gurion and several MD programs (15) this cycle and seeing how it irons out. Would you even risk the IMG status? My goal is to work in an ER and work for an overseas organization, will Ben Gurion hinder this goal? Do you know of any resources to find more out about the school (a more critical source than the school website?)

You didn't state your DO prejudice in your WAMC thread. My opinioin is that you will be better served in whatever medical path you choose by having a US DO/EM residency than you would with an IMG MD. Go to Ben Gurion if you want to practice medicine in Israel. Otherwise, for info head over to the international forum on here; you'll find more info there with a search. Best of luck.

 

[Brachyury]

You didn't state your DO prejudice in your WAMC thread. My opinioin is that you will be better served in whatever medical path you choose by having a US DO/EM residency than you would with an IMG MD. Go to Ben Gurion if you want to practice medicine in Israel. Otherwise, for info head over to the international forum on here; you'll find more info there with a search. Best of luck.

Just because someone does not want to go DO does not mean they're prejudiced; try not to get so defensive

For those of you not familiar with the program (I attend a US-allo), it's run in partnership with Columbia. The adcom is at Columbia, it uses Columbia's curriculum, you can do 4th year electives at Columbia, and the MCAT is higher than at all DO school: 'For the class entering in 2010, the average MCAT score was a 29, the average science GPA was 3.45, and the average overall GPA was a 3.51.'http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/bgcu-md/ps/faq.html


In terms of international programs, it's probably the best one out there, but at the end of the day, you're still going to be an IMG. If you retake your MCAT, you'll be able to increase your chances of getting into a US allo school

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Just because someone does not want to go DO does not mean they're prejudiced; try not to get so defensive

If the OP doesn't want to apply to DO programs, with his below-the-mean stats, simply "because," then I call that prejudice. And I'm not defensive; I applied to no DO programs even though I'm in the most competitive of MD states. I've got no horse in this race, other than to help the OP maximize their career options. Being an IMG, except as a very last resort, does not do that as far as I'm concerned. Doing rotations during your clinical years at Columbia is little more than a marketing tactic. How many Ben Gurion grads match into non-FM residencies at Columbia? I would be interested to know the number.

 

[wanderer]

If the OP doesn't want to apply to DO programs, with his below-the-mean stats, simply "because," then I call that prejudice. And I'm not defensive; I applied to no DO programs even though I'm in the most competitive of MD states. I've got no horse in this race, other than to help the OP maximize their career options. Being an IMG, except as a very last resort, does not do that as far as I'm concerned. Doing rotations during your clinical years at Columbia is little more than a marketing tactic. How many Ben Gurion grads match into non-FM residencies at Columbia? I would be interested to know the number.

http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/bgcu-md/alumni/residency_placements.html

 

[NYEMMED]

http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/bgcu-md/alumni/residency_placements.html

so none at columbia? (according to the link provided)

 

[James105]

I am thankful for the help! I am sure that many of you can relate; it is difficult to make cogent decisions when it feels like such a loooooonnnnggg process and you just want to begin. So thank you for the help.

I did not mean any offense against DO's. Many of the doctors of the best doctors I work with are DO's; I have argued for the legitimacy of DO's with several people. Many of my friends are going DO and I am very happy for them. That being said, I don't want to have to fight the "prejudice", but it seems that I would have an even more overwhelming amount of "prejudice" for attending Ben Gurion. If that is the case, and I would like to know (which is why I am thankful for your responses) then I don't want to attend, for the same reasons as I don't want to attend DO.

Additionally, while it is indisputable that my MCAT score is below the mean, it is also indisputable that 67% of folks with my stats get into school every year. Thus, I would be in the minority if not accepted. That is what I am trying to gauge; it seems that, on here, my MCAT makes me a difficult candidate (which there is no doubt I could have done much better!), but according to statistics, I have a better chance of getting in then not. So where are people applying? How come that doesn't seem to be the case on here?

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Additionally, while it is indisputable that my MCAT score is below the mean, it is also indisputable that 67% of folks with my stats get into school every year. Thus, I would be in the minority if not accepted. That is what I am trying to gauge; it seems that, on here, my MCAT makes me a difficult candidate (which there is no doubt I could have done much better!), but according to statistics, I have a better chance of getting in then not. So where are people applying? How come that doesn't seem to be the case on here?

First, around SDN there is a lot of various biases that get incorporated into the conventional wisdom; all advice around here should be taken with salt. Everyone here seems to have a 3.85/35. That's not your competition in the strictest sense.

To the 67% statistic, it is exactly that: 67% of the applicants with your stats (not your complete app, EC's, etc.) but just your raw stats got an acceptance somewhere. The problem is that so many people don't just want to go somewhere, they want to go to a school in the cool city that they live in that happens to show up on the USN rankings every year. That can be problematic. Additionally, applying broadly can become a very expensive proposition: lots of primaries means lots of secondaries which hopefully means lots of interviews. If you cast your net wide, that might mean lots of air travel. Not everyone can afford that, so they target. That targeting can also get problematic because it reduces the broadness of the application. Make a great app, apply broadly and you have a great chance at an acceptance. With your stats, you're even more likely to get acceptances at DO programs, some of which might match your geographic location preferences. That was my point of recommending DO. Regardless, best of luck.

 

[WingedOx]

http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/bgcu-md/alumni/residency_placements.html

a few nice placements here and there, but for the most part it looks comparable to a Carib list at best. Not very impressive.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

a few nice placements here and there, but for the most part it looks comparable to a Carib list at best. Not very impressive.

That was my thought looking at the list. Take out the Jewish-centered institutions around NYC and the FM/IM programs, and there isn't a lot left. Which is exactly as you'd expect. I'd also be interested how many of those slots were procured during the scramble and how many were straight up matches. Not enough to find that information though, so whatever.

 

[kcin]

If the OP doesn't want to apply to DO programs, with his below-the-mean stats, simply "because," then I call that prejudice. And I'm not defensive; I applied to no DO programs even though I'm in the most competitive of MD states. I've got no horse in this race, other than to help the OP maximize their career options. Being an IMG, except as a very last resort, does not do that as far as I'm concerned. Doing rotations during your clinical years at Columbia is little more than a marketing tactic. How many Ben Gurion grads match into non-FM residencies at Columbia? I would be interested to know the number.

It looked like he was saying he didn't want to attend a DO school because of international practice concerns. In a lot of countries there are *****s with Diplomas of Osteopathy or something similar, which is some sort of chiro crap. The existence of this basically poisons any chance of getting practice rights in a lot of countries, so it is a legitimate concern.

 

[bonsaipalmtree]

I know someone who is a student there (3rd year). If you PM me, I could ask her to send you an e-mail to answer your questions. She loves talking about the school, Israel, and what it's all like. It can be a rough place to live, but the school actually offers some really unique opportunities.

I am very interested in pursuing international health. As such, the program in Ben Gurion has recently been brought to my attention. My stats put me in a border line between DO and MD (3.9 28 MCAT). Since my goal is to become an emergency room physician, and I don't want to wait around for years to get into medical school(1. I pretty much "peaked" on my MCAT 2. I honestly don't have interest in pursuing DO because I want to have the most ablity to work overseas 3. I know DO's can work overseas but there are still limitations.) I am worried, though, that the IMG status of Ben Gurion would haunt me throughout my career. Also, I am worried that I would have difficulty getting a residency in EM (even though they seem to have a pretty competitive match list, even more inspiring than my state school!).

Is it worth the risk? I am thinking about applying to Ben Gurion and several MD programs (15) this cycle and seeing how it irons out. Would you even risk the IMG status? My goal is to work in an ER and work for an overseas organization, will Ben Gurion hinder this goal? Do you know of any resources to find more out about the school (a more critical source than the school website?)