Benefit as Practitioner

[htyotispharm]

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What is the true benefit of doing a 2-year residency after getting your PharmD? A lot of the pharmacy practitioners that I've talked to who have taken this route see patients, interpret lab results, "prescribe or highly recommend medication"(99.9% of the time the attending physician agrees with the RPh), manages drug therapy, and teach med and pharm students. If one is going to do all of this, why not try to go to medical school and get paid for it. I myself just finished my first PharmD year and am very disappointed that a lot of the information that I will be taught I will never use in every day practice. Is there a benefit in doing a residency or is a PharmD all you need to be a clinical pharmacist?

 

[Glycerin]

What is the true benefit of doing a 2-year residency after getting your PharmD? A lot of the pharmacy practitioners that I've talked to who have taken this route see patients, interpret lab results, "prescribe or highly recommend medication"(99.9% of the time the attending physician agrees with the RPh), manages drug therapy, and teach med and pharm students. If one is going to do all of this, why not try to go to medical school and get paid for it. I myself just finished my first PharmD year and am very disappointed that a lot of the information that I will be taught I will never use in every day practice. Is there a benefit in doing a residency or is a PharmD all you need to be a clinical pharmacist?

Here's a link that may shed some light on the subject for you:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=131183&highlight=residency+clinical

Also, I'm sure you could PM one of the folks in the forum who are currently in residency programs if you have more questions.

 

[Trancelucent1]

What is the true benefit of doing a 2-year residency after getting your PharmD? A lot of the pharmacy practitioners that I've talked to who have taken this route see patients, interpret lab results, "prescribe or highly recommend medication"(99.9% of the time the attending physician agrees with the RPh), manages drug therapy, and teach med and pharm students. If one is going to do all of this, why not try to go to medical school and get paid for it. I myself just finished my first PharmD year and am very disappointed that a lot of the information that I will be taught I will never use in every day practice. Is there a benefit in doing a residency or is a PharmD all you need to be a clinical pharmacist?

I plan on doing a residency because I also want to go the practitioner/clinical route. It is much harder to get into a hospital without the residency. I spoke to the Director of Pharmacy at a local hospital and he said that it is their policy not to hire unless they have hospital experience. Without having the residency, I'm not sure that you can have the experience right out of school. I in no way feel like I won't be getting paid for the job I will be doing. I like the more analytical aspect of being a clinical pharmacist. I know when I did some shadowing at a local hospital, the clinical pharmacist in MICU/ICU made well over what most retail pharmacists make (about 120K/year), so I don't feel like there is no compensation. Not to mention, that they only worked 5 days/week, and no weekends. If I wanted to be a doctor, I would go to medical school, but I don't and I can honestly say that I plan on becoming a clinical pharmacist, no matter how many years it takes. To me, job satisfaction means more than money and I know that this is my calling!

~Pam

 

[Glycerin]

I spoke to the Director of Pharmacy at a local hospital and he said that it is their policy not to hire unless they have hospital experience.

This, I'm sure, varies from hospital to hospital. The majority of pharmacists with whom I work have never done a residency. A few who graduated within the last five years went directly into the hospital setting from graduation.

Not to mention, that they only worked 5 days/week, and no weekends.

The clinical pharmacists where I work also make more (I don't have exact figures) and work Mon-Fri, but between the 4 of them (and the resident, after she's been here a while), each will be on-call one weekend a month.

 

[baggywrinkle]

unless competing for a plumb position just the experience you gain from it.

For most of us it would be hard work at slave labor rates. It is good for those
interested in management

 

[htyotispharm]

Thanks for your responses. I know retail pharmacy is not for me but here in South Carolina at the hospital where I work, an RPH who has done a residency starts with $31.90/hr and work M-F 8-6 and every 5th weekend. An RPH without a residency start with $30.90/hr. Even though this is $14 less than what CVS and Walgreens pays, these pharmacist seem to be happier.

 

[bananaface]

If you want to be assured that you will be able to practice a certain clinical specialty, a residency gives you that guarantee. It makes you more competitive so can also give you the ability to stay in your specialty without having to be willing to relocate to a different geographical area. You should get a bump in pay by going the specialty route. In my area it can be a difference of about 20K between the starting wages of a regular hospital pharmacist and those of a clinical specialist who has completed a residency.

 

[badxmojo]

120K? for a clinical pharmacist? wow.. are you guys talking east or west coast.. cause in the maryland, ny area.. clinical pharmacists don't make much more than 80.. actually i heard the clinical pharmacists make les then the normal staff pharmacists.. hmm..

 

[bananaface]

In Seattle retail pharmacists start at about 75-80K, hospital pharmacists at about 65-70K, and specialists about 80K-90K. Those are just ballpark figures. Some employers pay more or less depending on the availability and desirability of other candidates.

 

[lord999]

Ditto baggywrinkle.

You really have got to love the practice of pharmacy and demand a position as a clinical pharmacist to enjoy the benefits a residency. Otherwise, it really is slave labor that gives 3 to 5 years of hospital experience in 1 year.

As far as pay goes, clinical pharmacists make about $10K less here than staf hospital and they make $15K to 20K less than community pharmacists.

 

[futoi]

What is the true benefit of doing a 2-year residency after getting your PharmD? A lot of the pharmacy practitioners that I've talked to who have taken this route see patients, interpret lab results, "prescribe or highly recommend medication"(99.9% of the time the attending physician agrees with the RPh), manages drug therapy, and teach med and pharm students. If one is going to do all of this, why not try to go to medical school and get paid for it. I myself just finished my first PharmD year and am very disappointed that a lot of the information that I will be taught I will never use in every day practice. Is there a benefit in doing a residency or is a PharmD all you need to be a clinical pharmacist?

the law varies from place to place. guess it all depends on the state in which you practice....

in WA, anyone with a pharmacy license (BPharm or Pharm.D.) can set up a collaborative practice agreement with a physician and become a prescriber. residency not needed in order to do this.

clinical position, if that's what you want to do, all but require a residency or some special certification (CDE, CGP, FASHP....).

 

[htyotispharm]

North Carolina has the same procedure. An pharmacist with a PharmD and a couple certifications have become a clinical pharmacy practitioner serving under a precepting physician. This position is very similar to one of an NP or PA except you handle patients that have a very complicated drug therapy. You also have to order and interpret lab results and prescribe. The formulary is still restricted but is derived by the physician and pharmacist. Anything can be on the list(Xanax,Valium,Vicodin) except narcotics(must have accompaning signature). Also, whats on the formulary must be in your scope of practice.

 

[bananaface]

We should note that in WA the collaborative practice agreement can be put in place at a retail pharmacy (ie: emergency contraception). I am guessing in NC the procedures and increaded responsibility you are referring to are performed in an inpatient setting.

 

[htyotispharm]

yes, these pharmacist only practice in the physician's office or clinic. It is mainly fir primary care or internal medicine.

 

[tupac_don]

Hey there,

I am a Pharm D and from what I see I can tell you a few things.

1) To work in a hospital you don't need a residency aka to just be a clinical pharmacist (which is the new lingo for a staff pharmacist who does some clinical work 1-2X per week)
2) To be a clinical specialist you need a residency absolutely. Depending where u wanna go, you might need a speciality residency as well. That's 2 years on top of Pharm D.
3) When you become a clinical specialist, your financial status does not improve, you actually make less than the clinical (staff) pharmacist, because they are hourly and specialist is salaried. On top of it you are doing a lot more work. You have lots of little projects, like making some guidelines, presenting at meetings, enforcing policies of your institution and so forth. The up side is that you get your office, do more cerebral work, but if you want to get cash, don't go clinical specialist. Finally, clinical specialist know a lot, but don't have much input in decision making. The physician is the boss, he can override you if he feels like it. You can make your reccommendations but really it's the doc with who the buck stops with.

Based on this info, my reccom is:

1) If you want to stay in hospital and know that you want to do it for the rest of your life, an MD degree is worth it. Yea you do lose some money in the beginning, but depending on the specialty you will even out in roughly 10 years. But then you make 50-60 G's more than a Rx, so you will surpass. Second you will finish med school much smoother because of pharmacy background. In actuallity a lot of medicine, deals with drugs. Yea you have to diagnose, but really when you are following a patient on a day to day basis as a medical student or a resident, you are fine tuning the patient's drug regimen. As a pharmacist you will shine there.

2) If you don't want to go to med school, but you want to get distinguished as a pharmacist, best way is to go the research route. But that would include, get a fellowship, then get hooked up with a university, b/c they will let you do benchwork and then work for 5-6 years for $40000-60000/year, 60-70 hrs a week and always fight for grants and need to get published. However, after all is set and done about 10-15 years, you can easily make 100000+ as a researcher, even 200000+ if you go into pharmaceutical industry.

3) If you want to be in a hospital environment, but be involved peripherally, do your work but have your time off, then a clinical specialist might be a good position for you.

Bottom line do what you love, because in the end you will live with it, nobody else. Hope this helps. Best of luck.

 

[pharmel]

Hey futoi, are you French? 🙄

 

[J Lucas]

Great post ,Tupac
You just taught me alot about the profession of Pharmacy in that one post. 👍

Hey there,

I am a Pharm D and from what I see I can tell you a few things.

1) To work in a hospital you don't need a residency aka to just be a clinical pharmacist (which is the new lingo for a staff pharmacist who does some clinical work 1-2X per week)
2) To be a clinical specialist you need a residency absolutely. Depending where u wanna go, you might need a speciality residency as well. That's 2 years on top of Pharm D.
3) When you become a clinical specialist, your financial status does not improve, you actually make less than the clinical (staff) pharmacist, because they are hourly and specialist is salaried. On top of it you are doing a lot more work. You have lots of little projects, like making some guidelines, presenting at meetings, enforcing policies of your institution and so forth. The up side is that you get your office, do more cerebral work, but if you want to get cash, don't go clinical specialist. Finally, clinical specialist know a lot, but don't have much input in decision making. The physician is the boss, he can override you if he feels like it. You can make your reccommendations but really it's the doc with who the buck stops with.

Based on this info, my reccom is:

1) If you want to stay in hospital and know that you want to do it for the rest of your life, an MD degree is worth it. Yea you do lose some money in the beginning, but depending on the specialty you will even out in roughly 10 years. But then you make 50-60 G's more than a Rx, so you will surpass. Second you will finish med school much smoother because of pharmacy background. In actuallity a lot of medicine, deals with drugs. Yea you have to diagnose, but really when you are following a patient on a day to day basis as a medical student or a resident, you are fine tuning the patient's drug regimen. As a pharmacist you will shine there.

2) If you don't want to go to med school, but you want to get distinguished as a pharmacist, best way is to go the research route. But that would include, get a fellowship, then get hooked up with a university, b/c they will let you do benchwork and then work for 5-6 years for $40000-60000/year, 60-70 hrs a week and always fight for grants and need to get published. However, after all is set and done about 10-15 years, you can easily make 100000+ as a researcher, even 200000+ if you go into pharmaceutical industry.

3) If you want to be in a hospital environment, but be involved peripherally, do your work but have your time off, then a clinical specialist might be a good position for you.

Bottom line do what you love, because in the end you will live with it, nobody else. Hope this helps. Best of luck.