Benefits of learning OMM?

[Dr. Zombie]

@bones

What's your opinion on cranial OMM?

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[bones]

not going to lie but i was thinking OMM was going to be more of a waste of time than something "useful" i could use in practice since i'm most likely not going into primary care, but like you said there are some applications of OMM that can be applied to most fields of medicine. i guess some people like myself get turned off by OMM because there are those quacks who say OMM is "the answer" for almost everything as well as the fact that there's not much research backing up OMM which made me a bit skeptical of how effective OMM really is. i appreciate your post, that was great, and i'll definitely go into OMM with a much more open mind now.

I appreciate your open mindedness and desire to learn. In my experience and to my great disappointment most of the students in every DO class with the most natural talent both in terms of raw brain power, common sense, and love of learning end up dismissing OMM fairly early in their training due to the above mentioned reasons unless they see a few good cases early in their training, start looking into it for themselves and find themselves a talented mentor. These are the students in each class with the most potential to be truly great in this field, as to master osteopathy you need to know extensively about the pathophysiology of every condition you treat- and have a relative mastery of both gross anatomy and functional anatomy, and be very good with the scientific process... a challenging feat to do and completely dependent on the very skills that cause students to reject OMM.

 

[bones]

@bones

What's your opinion on cranial OMM?

How I would love a Harvard School of Osteopathic Medicine!!! PM me if you have any connections there- I am around enough that I could do OMM demonstrations or be involved in research projects (or even an elective!) if there is interest.

Anyhow, cranial is an example of an extremely complicated theory based on layers of unknowns. In my opinion theories should be very simple and arise naturally by observation. I can take away someone's migraine on the spot or re-shape a newborn baby's head drawing on the skills taught in cranial class, but the given theory as to why it works is a bit out there and unnecessary.

For migraines- It is possible that effectiveness is achieved by something as simple as normalizing blood flow to the affected brain area- which could have more to do with whats going on at the fascia by the carotids or the superfisical fascias of the skull/muscles over the skull than whatever movement may be occurring at the sutures or whatever "motility" may be going on in the CNS. Let me appeal to your common sense; Migraines often begin in patients after they sustain a head injury, even if there is also a genetic component. Pressure around the temples often relieves their pain, and I can put steady pressure on their temples and relieve their pain almost instantly. After treating local fascial/muscular abnormalities for a few minutes the headache stays gone and often never comes back- even in patients that have had daily migraines for years. I would be willing to do this process under close scrutiny and perhaps we could figure out the exact mechanism and come up with a better theory and methods that would be more efficient and more easily taught to students. Though I sometimes use a very light touch, I often use 5-40 lbs of force if this is what is required to create the change I am looking for (coincidentally- many of the most effective old-timers that use cranial use a lot of pressure like this as well). I rarely need to feel anything as subtle as what they are trying to get you to feel in the cranial class to get excellent and immediate results, and it seems silly to expect that kind of palpatory skill out of medical students- especially those that still struggle feeling normal joint barriers and getting results with normal indirect techniques like counterstrain and BLT.

I don't imagine it is a stretch to believe you can slide babies skull bones around to make their head a normal shape after they came through a birth canal- so long as you know where they all go. If a newborn has a feeding problem it is simply a matter of knowing what cranial nerve is responsible for the action that is abnormal as they try to feed- and tracing the course of the nerve back to where it is pinched and normalizing local anatomy (often the issue is near the jugular foramen or the nearby fascias- the occiput is in 4 pieces after all at birth and their poor head was just mashed going through the birth canal). Gagging is usually due to impingement of the vagus, tongue thrusting is a problem with the hypoglossal, and poor latch usually has to do with the facial nerve. If OMM is properly applied, after 2-3 minutes the baby should be able to feed no problem and then you don't have to give up on breastfeeding or worry about weight loss- and they probably wont need a follow up treatment.

I hope that is clear. I would be happy to answer follow up questions.

 

[mke520]

since you're a specialist in OMM i'm assuming that you've had an extensive amount of extra training in OMM during your residency compared to what you learned in medical school, but do you think that the average DO medical student learns "enough" OMM procedures and learns them well enough to confidently preform OMM on their patients in a clinical setting? in other words, do you think that the education in OMM in medical schools is where it should be at for these students to take the skills they've learned and use them effectively and confidently on their patients?

 

[bones]

since you're a specialist in OMM i'm assuming that you've had an extensive amount of extra training in OMM during your residency compared to what you learned in medical school, but do you think that the average DO medical student learns "enough" OMM procedures and learns them well enough to confidently preform OMM on their patients in a clinical setting? in other words, do you think that the education in OMM in medical schools is where it should be at for these students to take the skills they've learned and use them effectively and confidently on their patients?

That will vary significantly by school. Generally from what I see I'd say no- most students are underprepared, and through no fault of their own- unless they put in significant time outside of class with skillful mentors (which will not count towards their grades, they need to juggle this against their class rank/ability to pass classes). They will also need to seek out rotations with OMM physicians during their clinical years and residency. The emphasis in a lot of schools in the first and second years is the memorization of techniques- and techniques will be quickly forgotten when not used and bear little resemblance to clinical medicine. There are exceptions- I have had some fantastic students find their way to me over the years- but most of these students found themselves a good mentor early in their training or were just very determined and put significant time and effort in outside of class. Consider OMM class like driver training school. OMM in the clinic is like highway driving at 80 mph, and doing a cash practice is like racing in the indy 500. If all you do is drivers training school (taught by people who may or may not be good drivers), and never drive a car on your own, and then dont touch a car for 5 years, and then come back to it an expect to do 80 mph highway driving you might be in trouble.

What is important in my mind is Osteopathic philosophy, functional anatomy, pathophysiology, and the connections between what you feel and whats going on clinically with a patient- and each of these areas are under-taught at most DO schools (and where pathophysiology is well taught, it typically will not be connected to the OMM class in a meaningful way). Sorry to say it, but thats the condition of the DO world at this time. Wonderful potential but a bit of a mess.

 

[Petypet]

That will vary significantly by school. Generally from what I see I'd say no- most students are underprepared, and through no fault of their own- unless they put in significant time outside of class with skillful mentors (which will not count towards their grades, they need to juggle this against their class rank/ability to pass classes). They will also need to seek out rotations with OMM physicians during their clinical years and residency. The emphasis in a lot of schools in the first and second years is the memorization of techniques- and techniques will be quickly forgotten when not used and bear little resemblance to clinical medicine. There are exceptions- I have had some fantastic students find their way to me over the years- but most of these students found themselves a good mentor early in their training or were just very determined and put significant time and effort in outside of class. Consider OMM class like driver training school. OMM in the clinic is like highway driving at 80 mph, and doing a cash practice is like racing in the indy 500. If all you do is drivers training school (taught by people who may or may not be good drivers), and never drive a car on your own, and then dont touch a car for 5 years, and then come back to it an expect to do 80 mph highway driving you might be in trouble.

What is important in my mind is Osteopathic philosophy, functional anatomy, pathophysiology, and the connections between what you feel and whats going on clinically with a patient- and each of these areas are under-taught at most DO schools (and where pathophysiology is well taught, it typically will not be connected to the OMM class in a meaningful way). Sorry to say it, but thats the condition of the DO world at this time. Wonderful potential but a bit of a mess.

I would argue then, the entire system needs an overhaul. Get rid of teaching us pointless, anecdotal philosophies, and teach us stuff we can use. I can't count how many times we have to regurg chapman's point for the appendix, or other unimportant factoids. Sadly, I too see the benefit of OMM, but the educational process in place is a joke with no signs of changing (similar to our old guard AOA leadership). Why should I remember 40 different points of Zink's compensation patterns, the different cranial strain patterns when we don't learn cranial, or AT Still's fathers first name. I want to know 1. what can I do to help my patient, and 2. how does it work. And lastly like any other field of medicine, we need to adapt evidence based medicine to OMM, otherwise most of us will continue to just memorize, regurgitate, and repeat for my exams.

How, I don't know. But I feel that it is the responsibility of our leaders to figure that out, otherwise this field is just going to be in a perpetual state of single practitioners who practice based on anecdotal evidence.

 

[mke520]

I would argue then, the entire system needs an overhaul. Get rid of teaching us pointless, anecdotal philosophies, and teach us stuff we can use. I can't count how many times we have to regurg chapman's point for the appendix, or other unimportant factoids. Sadly, I too see the benefit of OMM, but the educational process in place is a joke with no signs of changing (similar to our old guard AOA leadership). Why should I remember 40 different points of Zink's compensation patterns, the different cranial strain patterns when we don't learn cranial, or AT Still's fathers first name. I want to know 1. what can I do to help my patient, and 2. how does it work. And lastly like any other field of medicine, we need to adapt evidence based medicine to OMM, otherwise most of us will continue to just memorize, regurgitate, and repeat for my exams.

How, I don't know. But I feel that it is the responsibility of our leaders to figure that out, otherwise this field is just going to be in a perpetual state of single practitioners who practice based on anecdotal evidence.

and this was my concern with going the DO route over MD. because i can go either route, MD or DO, but to be completely honest the only difference i see between the curriculum between the two schools is OMM and that's basically it. i am still leaning towards the DO school because i really love that specific school and although i may never use OMM on a daily basis i thought it'd be really interesting to learn and i can see how it can be beneficial to many people. but if the curriculum for OMM is weak and is more of a "learn this and regurgitate it for an exam" with no true understanding of what's going on and how OMM relates to the pathophysiology like @bones mentioned then why spend so much time learning it if the only way you're going to truly understand OMM and be able to use it effectively is if you continue your education at a residency where they hit hard on it. please tell me i'm wrong if this isn't the case but that's what it seems like

 

[bones]

@Petypet
You'll get no argument from me, though I am not hopeful that our leadership will change unless we become the new leadership ourselves- personally that doesn't interest me. I am doing the best I can from the perspective of figuring out what actually works from among the heaps of untested ideas floating around, and also helping individual students in their training and teaching small groups. I'm now writing a book as well to help students and docs in practice to produce great results and hopefully I can put together questions worthy of future research based on cases I've seen. Good controlled research is really going to be the key to put OMM on the map- and for that we need one or more research teams with great clinical skills and experience publishing in top journals. I would be part of such a team if we can find the right players.

 

[bones]

and this was my concern with going the DO route over MD. because i can go either route, MD or DO, but to be completely honest the only difference i see between the curriculum between the two schools is OMM and that's basically it. i am still leaning towards the DO school because i really love that specific school and although i may never use OMM on a daily basis i thought it'd be really interesting to learn and i can see how it can be beneficial to many people. but if the curriculum for OMM is weak and is more of a "learn this and regurgitate it for an exam" with no true understanding of what's going on and how OMM relates to the pathophysiology like @bones mentioned then why spend so much time learning it if the only way you're going to truly understand OMM and be able to use it effectively is if you continue your education at a residency where they hit hard on it. please tell me i'm wrong if this isn't the case but that's what it seems like

I was in the same boat. It is a tough decision to make. If you decide to go the DO route it will be people like you that carry things forward- you may find yourself a big fish in a small pond. Going MD and shadowing the OMM gurus and trying to learn the best you can/taking OMM CME courses as an MD student to learn techniques and carefully studying AT Stills work is another valid option- especially if you can get into a top tier MD school where the pathophysiology will be taught more effectively- knowing the big picture basic science stuff very well is important in thinking "holistically" about the body. I thought hard about this option when I started, but opted to go DO. If you are still on the fence you should find a cash practice OMM doc (or 2, or 3 if possible) and shadow before your final decision. If it is between a lower tier MD school and one of the better DO schools and you like OMM and like what you see shadowing, the DO route may be for you- just be sure you are willing to work for it.

 

[dyspareunia]

I hear OMM can make you a bunch of extra spending money.

 

[Fox800]

An OMT course means your school years will be longer than any allopathic school, giving you less time to study for boards to be competitive for residency application...thus improving your ability to work under a deadline and handle stress! What a blessing it is to have 5 weeks to study instead of 8+. Our schools are allowing us the opportunity to develop valuable time-management skills.

Or maybe that's just my school.

 

[dyspareunia]

An OMT course means your school years will be longer than any allopathic school, giving you less time to study for boards to be competitive for residency application...thus improving your ability to work under a deadline and handle stress! What a blessing it is to have 5 weeks to study instead of 8+. Our schools are allowing us the opportunity to develop valuable time-management skills.

Or maybe that's just my school.

I go to an MD school and we don't have 8+ weeks to study for boards. Though I agree having OMM throughout the year does cut into your daily study time.

 

[Fox800]

I go to an MD school and we don't have 8+ weeks to study for boards. Though I agree having OMM throughout the year does cut into your daily study time.

Oops. Well I know there's quite a few schools that got out in April (or earlier). My classmates and I were annoyed at some of the BS foo-foo schedules where we had class for 2-3 hours a day, 3 days a week...with random entire days off. WE COULD HAVE BEEN DONE WITH THE SEMESTER BY THEN </rant>

 

[mke520]

well the DO school i'll be attending actually ends their second year lectures in the middle of March because in our first year we go from August til July which gives us about 3 months solid to study for the boards. kind of sucks we don't really get a summer break (about 3 weeks) but it's very beneficial when it comes to board preparation.

 

[Dharma]

well the DO school i'll be attending actually ends their second year lectures in the middle of March because in our first year we go from August til July which gives us about 3 months solid to study for the boards. kind of sucks we don't really get a summer break (about 3 weeks) but it's very beneficial when it comes to board preparation.

What magical school is this? I know of a few schools that only give 2-3 weeks. 3 months is crazy! Probably too much actually.

 

[NurWollen]

What magical school is this? I know of a few schools that only give 2-3 weeks. 3 months is crazy! Probably too much actually.

I'm guessing SOMA.

 

[mke520]

VCOM

 

[Dr. Zombie]

well the DO school i'll be attending actually ends their second year lectures in the middle of March because in our first year we go from August til July which gives us about 3 months solid to study for the boards. kind of sucks we don't really get a summer break (about 3 weeks) but it's very beneficial when it comes to board preparation.

You'll get all the vacation you want when you're an attending pimpin' the cronies.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

An OMT course means your school years will be longer than any allopathic school, giving you less time to study for boards to be competitive for residency application...thus improving your ability to work under a deadline and handle stress! What a blessing it is to have 5 weeks to study instead of 8+. Our schools are allowing us the opportunity to develop valuable time-management skills.

Or maybe that's just my school.

This is so true it hurts. I don't mind OMM and I actually really enjoy some of the treatment techniques that we have learned so far this year. But, for now, I don't really see myself going into primary care or a specialty that would utilize it. With that being said, I would say that, despite what the OMM lovers say (and frequently dismiss the time commitment), it does significantly cut down on the time that you have to study for other classe. Our school has a joint DPM program and they have more time to devote to classes like micro, neuroanatomy, pathology (you know, the hard sciences that define your foundational background for understanding medicine), etc. etc. because they don't have all the OMM written tests, practicals, classes, and labs sprinkled into the revolving schedule. We just took a multiple tests last week and have OMM practicals and written exams this week, so the majority of the DO students cram/purged a VERY important test that we just took. No, we didn't cram it because we weren't studying adequately (everyone started studying immediately after our last test last week due to the incredibly short turn around)...but, if we didn't have OMM this week, we could have been adequately prepared for our exam and learned a thing or two about what we were studying. That, unfortunately, is the biggest downfall.

 

[mke520]

This is so true it hurts. I don't mind OMM and I actually really enjoy some of the treatment techniques that we have learned so far this year. But, for now, I don't really see myself going into primary care or a specialty that would utilize it. With that being said, I would say that, despite what the OMM lovers say (and frequently dismiss the time commitment), it does significantly cut down on the time that you have to study for other classe. Our school has a joint DPM program and they have more time to devote to classes like micro, neuroanatomy, pathology (you know, the hard sciences that define your foundational background for understanding medicine), etc. etc. because they don't have all the OMM written tests, practicals, classes, and labs sprinkled into the revolving schedule. We just took a multiple tests last week and have OMM practicals and written exams this week, so the majority of the DO students cram/purged a VERY important test that we just took. No, we didn't cram it because we weren't studying adequately (everyone started studying immediately after our last test last week due to the incredibly short turn around)...but, if we didn't have OMM this week, we could have been adequately prepared for our exam and learned a thing or two about what we were studying. That, unfortunately, is the biggest downfall.

that sounds awful to be completely honest. i thought learning OMM would be great, but now i'm starting to second guess my decision on going the DO route after hearing how OMM can take a lot of time away from more important classes, which are not only more critical to becoming a better physician but also more critical for the comlex/usmle. i'm most likely not going primary care so lets just say OMM will play little to no part of my practice but i'm still very interested in OMM and think it can be very beneficial for some patients but OMM is not worth learning (for me at least) if its going to take that much time away from my other more important classes. if i'm not going to use OMM (most likely) then should i still go DO or should i go MD? i like the DO school itself much more than the MD school but if OMM is really that much of a time consumer then i'm not sure if i want to go that route. i've never heard of OMM taking up that much time which is why i never thought twice about it but i sure hope that's not the case, this would be a huge bummer if true

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

that sounds awful to be completely honest. i thought learning OMM would be great, but now i'm starting to second guess my decision on going the DO route after hearing how OMM can take a lot of time away from more important classes, which are not only more critical to becoming a better physician but also more critical for the comlex/usmle. i'm most likely not going primary care so lets just say OMM will play little to no part of my practice but i'm still very interested in OMM and think it can be very beneficial for some patients but OMM is not worth learning (for me at least) if its going to take that much time away from my other more important classes. if i'm not going to use OMM (most likely) then should i still go DO or should i go MD? i like the DO school itself much more than the MD school but if OMM is really that much of a time consumer then i'm not sure if i want to go that route. i've never heard of OMM taking up that much time which is why i never thought twice about it but i sure hope that's not the case, this would be a huge bummer if true

Well, according to me and Fox it is. But hey, we are only 2 people.

I personally happen to think that, yes, it takes a significant amount of time from the foundational sciences and it certainly affects the curriculum and length of school year, especially in regard for board prep. (not by me, per say as I am OMS-I but I just talked to two OMS-2's at my school and they were bothered by the fact that they only ended OMM a month ago and it got in the way of their board prep. Also, if you go to a DO school, you still have to take COMLEX and so you have to put some time into that, especially if you were one of those students who kinda neglected OMM throughout the year

 

[Dharma]

that sounds awful to be completely honest. i thought learning OMM would be great, but now i'm starting to second guess my decision on going the DO route after hearing how OMM can take a lot of time away from more important classes, which are not only more critical to becoming a better physician but also more critical for the comlex/usmle. i'm most likely not going primary care so lets just say OMM will play little to no part of my practice but i'm still very interested in OMM and think it can be very beneficial for some patients but OMM is not worth learning (for me at least) if its going to take that much time away from my other more important classes. if i'm not going to use OMM (most likely) then should i still go DO or should i go MD? i like the DO school itself much more than the MD school but if OMM is really that much of a time consumer then i'm not sure if i want to go that route. i've never heard of OMM taking up that much time which is why i never thought twice about it but i sure hope that's not the case, this would be a huge bummer if true

Here's the way I see it. I like OMM… to a degree. I hate the OPP class though. It is a time sink and it's annoyingly redundant. There is too much focus on technique and copy-cat demonstration without enough focus on the pathophysiology underlying the issue (like Bones was saying). We have a professor who consistently ties in relevant anatomy, physiology, and pathology and his lectures are gangbusters… and they actually help with coming to understand the big picture based on the intricate parts in motion (or not in motion). His lectures help solidify some of the knowledge obtained in other disciplines, i.e. not a waste of time. But he's the exception. For the most part, the remainder of the profs puff hot hair: multiple mentions of "distinction" and passive aggressive shots at M.D.s top the list, with a few plugs for chelation and other b.s. sprinkled here and there. It's kind of embarrassing. So much so that I don't even listen to them anymore. I use that time to catch up on emails and reading a few articles here and there instead.

All of that said, I devote minimal time to the the class itself. Is it a time sink? Yes, indeed. But I don't think it's THAT substantial. Totally annoying, especially when it hits the redundancy phase… and frustrating when you realize how close boards are, no doubt. But it's not such a big deal that it's taking away massive amounts of time that will keep you from excelling in the other disciplines. If you like the DO school better, go there and don't look back. If you're sitting on the fence, go MD. You can always work your way back to OMM if you're so inclined. Once you start on the path of the DO… can't change your mind on that one. Trust your gut. Good luck dude.

 

[mke520]

this really sucks! i didn't realize OMM was that time consuming. i'm going to seriously have to reconsider this whole DO thing now. i mean i love the DO school i've been accepted to and i'm only so so with the MD school but if OMM is going to take up a lot of time (class time and studying time) then i'm not sure what to do. again i like the concept of OMM and think it'd be great to learn, but not at the expense of the rest of my classes. well i appreciate your guys comments cause this issue would've been a huge slap in the face my first semester at the DO school this upcoming Fall. it really is depressing that OMM gets in the way of classes that much and more or less just adds extra stress to everything. btw i cannot stand when DOs (especially the quacky ones who think OMM is the answer to everything) take cheap shots at MDs because they have self-esteem issues in the medical world. these are the ppl that keep the stigma against DOs going.

Here's the way I see it. I like OMM… to a degree. I hate the OPP class though. It is a time sink and it's annoyingly redundant. There is too much focus on technique and copy-cat demonstration without enough focus on the pathophysiology underlying the issue (like Bones was saying). We have a professor who consistently ties in relevant anatomy, physiology, and pathology and his lectures are gangbusters… and they actually help with coming to understand the big picture based on the intricate parts in motion (or not in motion). His lectures help solidify some of the knowledge obtained in other disciplines, i.e. not a waste of time. But he's the exception. For the most part, the remainder of the profs puff hot hair: multiple mentions of "distinction" and passive aggressive shots at M.D.s top the list, with a few plugs for chelation and other b.s. sprinkled here and there. It's kind of embarrassing. So much so that I don't even listen to them anymore. I use that time to catch up on emails and reading a few articles here and there instead.

All of that said, I devote minimal time to the the class itself. Is it a time sink? Yes, indeed. But I don't think it's THAT substantial. Totally annoying, especially when it hits the redundancy phase… and frustrating when you realize how close boards are, no doubt. But it's not such a big deal that it's taking away massive amounts of time that will keep you from excelling in the other disciplines. If you like the DO school better, go there and don't look back. If you're sitting on the fence, go MD. You can always work your way back to OMM if you're so inclined. Once you start on the path of the DO… can't change your mind on that one. Trust your gut. Good luck dude.

 

[DocVapor]

this really sucks! i didn't realize OMM was that time consuming. i'm going to seriously have to reconsider this whole DO thing now. i mean i love the DO school i've been accepted to and i'm only so so with the MD school but if OMM is going to take up a lot of time (class time and studying time) then i'm not sure what to do. again i like the concept of OMM and think it'd be great to learn, but not at the expense of the rest of my classes. well i appreciate your guys comments cause this issue would've been a huge slap in the face my first semester at the DO school this upcoming Fall. it really is depressing that OMM gets in the way of classes that much and more or less just adds extra stress to everything. btw i cannot stand when DOs (especially the quacky ones who think OMM is the answer to everything) take cheap shots at MDs because they have self-esteem issues in the medical world. these are the ppl that keep the stigma against DOs going.

You are considering VCOM right? South Carolina campus I presume? OMM at the Virginia campus hasn't been some huge time sink that destroys all your other grades. Most people that aren't all that into it might practice a little bit before practicals and study for a night or two before the exam. The tests can have some questions that are way out of left field, but most everyone does just fine.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

this really sucks! i didn't realize OMM was that time consuming. i'm going to seriously have to reconsider this whole DO thing now. i mean i love the DO school i've been accepted to and i'm only so so with the MD school but if OMM is going to take up a lot of time (class time and studying time) then i'm not sure what to do. again i like the concept of OMM and think it'd be great to learn, but not at the expense of the rest of my classes. well i appreciate your guys comments cause this issue would've been a huge slap in the face my first semester at the DO school this upcoming Fall. it really is depressing that OMM gets in the way of classes that much and more or less just adds extra stress to everything. btw i cannot stand when DOs (especially the quacky ones who think OMM is the answer to everything) take cheap shots at MDs because they have self-esteem issues in the medical world. these are the ppl that keep the stigma against DOs going.

Although OMM does get in the way, it is still possible to do well in the other classes and still learn what you need to know. You just have to put in a little "extra" amount of time outside of class to learn the material. And I would agree with the other posters that some people study and cram it a night or two before the exam and still do well. And it may not be a huge time sink, but it does take up that would otherwise not be taken up if you didn't have OMM

 

[D4C]

this really sucks! i didn't realize OMM was that time consuming. i'm going to seriously have to reconsider this whole DO thing now. i mean i love the DO school i've been accepted to and i'm only so so with the MD school but if OMM is going to take up a lot of time (class time and studying time) then i'm not sure what to do. again i like the concept of OMM and think it'd be great to learn, but not at the expense of the rest of my classes. well i appreciate your guys comments cause this issue would've been a huge slap in the face my first semester at the DO school this upcoming Fall. it really is depressing that OMM gets in the way of classes that much and more or less just adds extra stress to everything. btw i cannot stand when DOs (especially the quacky ones who think OMM is the answer to everything) take cheap shots at MDs because they have self-esteem issues in the medical world. these are the ppl that keep the stigma against DOs going.

Ignore your OMM course until the afternoon of the test, you don't need a large amount of time to prepare. It only takes as much time as you give it, so don't be a sucker and ignore your other classes.

 

[mke520]

You are considering VCOM right? South Carolina campus I presume? OMM at the Virginia campus hasn't been some huge time sink that destroys all your other grades. Most people that aren't all that into it might practice a little bit before practicals and study for a night or two before the exam. The tests can have some questions that are way out of left field, but most everyone does just fine.

yup i picked the south carolina VCOM...it didn't seem like OMM was a huge focus at the school but i guess you never know until you start i guess. i absolutely loved the campus and everything about the school itself which is why i picked it over several other DO schools and most likely a MD school but i was just worried about OMM getting in the way of my studies. so if you guys say it's not that big of a deal then i'll trust you on that because i would like to learn OMM but not at the cost of studying for my other more important classes. OMM taking up "some" time isn't a big deal but OMM taking up "a lot" of time would make me run for the hills

 

[DrEnderW]

If OMM time constraints is the reason you can't perform in other classes or is destroying USMLE studying time (even though you need to to pass COMLEX), you are approaching medical school wrong.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

If OMM time constraints is the reason you can't perform in other classes or is destroying USMLE studying time (even though you need to to pass COMLEX), you are approaching medical school wrong.

How do you approach OMM

 

[mke520]

If OMM time constraints is the reason you can't perform in other classes or is destroying USMLE studying time (even though you need to to pass COMLEX), you are approaching medical school wrong.

Really? There were just other medical students on here posting that OMM can suck up a lot of valuable time that could be spent either towards "more important" coursework or towards studying for the COMLEX and/or USMLE which I will be taking both. I'm not approaching medical school wrong at all, I'm just making sure (A) I do well in my science coursework and (B) I do well on my COMLEX and USMLE. Time is very valuable and I just want to make sure that OMM, which isn't in my top two priorities for medical school, won't consume too much time. I never thought OMM would consume much time until other medical students just starting to warn me about it, and I'm going to take their advice and make sure I go about OMM in a way that isn't going to sacrifice too much time away from more important things.

 

[DrEnderW]

Really? There were just other medical students on here posting that OMM can suck up a lot of valuable time that could be spent either towards "more important" coursework or towards studying for the COMLEX and/or USMLE which I will be taking both. I'm not approaching medical school wrong at all, I'm just making sure (A) I do well in my science coursework and (B) I do well on my COMLEX and USMLE.

I didn't mean to accuse you of potentially doing anything wrong - I'm glad you're thinking about things in advance. The way I look at is: would it be better to have one less class of any subject? Absolutely. OMM is no exception and it does take time but I think saying it would effect your USMLE score is a bit of an exaggeration. It behooves you to know OMM very well as it is a significant part of COMLEX I. This is especially true if you're going for a competitive AOA specialty. A common strategy is to take Step 1 first then spend time reviewing OMM for COMLEX and take Level 1 after.

How do you approach OMM

Time is very valuable and I just want to make sure that OMM, which isn't in my top two priorities for medical school, won't consume too much time. I never thought OMM would consume much time until other medical students just starting to warn me about it, and I'm going to take their advice and make sure I go about OMM in a way that isn't going to sacrifice too much time away from more important things.

If you have 1 OMM class (lecture and associated lab) per week that corresponds to 1 video lecture -- lets say 1 hour on average. Watch that on 1.75x speed and that's 35 minutes of prep per week. The biggest time drag is the couple hours of lab per week. If you do well in OMM it will be a comprehensive anatomy review and you'll extremely minimal anatomy prep for Step 1. For practical prep, you can do one solid day of review of the techniques and I usually study a full Saturday and Sunday for a written exam (that's it). Doing this minimal method, I have gotten A's on every practical and written exam and finished at the top of the class for first year OMM. There are definitely times I wish I didn't have the extra exam. Maybe 3 times a semester I'll skip a Saturday workout, not volunteer, or skip a day or two of Firecracker to do the extra OMM hours, but I don't think it affects how I'll be prepared for Step 1.

This is in contrast to what other people are saying so realize you'll probably be somewhere in the middle.

 

[dyspareunia]

How many hours of OMM do you guys have a week?

 

[DocVapor]

How many hours of OMM do you guys have a week?

At VCOM we had 2-4 hours of lab a week, with sparse weeks off from lab. As far as lecture, we had tons of weeks where we didn't have a single PPC/OMM lecture, and other weeks where we had 5-6. Granted, things like basic nutrition and preventative medicine were included in the OMM course.

For lab, we generally learned things like Chapman's points along with the systems they represent. For the actual manipulations, we started out learning the basic palpatory techniques, then moved to low-impact techniques (Counterstrain/Muscle Energy) by body part / spinal segment, then later came back and revisited the regions with HVLA. The last lab we had was on Cervical HVLA. Also, our PPC/OMM labs also included the basic physical exam components relative to each system, so that's where we did special testing, vital signs, breath/heart sounds, etc, meaning that we didn't do manipulation in each and every lab. Musculoskeletal and Neuro blocks were the heaviest in OMM, naturally.

 

[dyspareunia]

At VCOM we had 2-4 hours of lab a week, with sparse weeks off from lab. As far as lecture, we had tons of weeks where we didn't have a single PPC/OMM lecture, and other weeks where we had 5-6. Granted, things like basic nutrition and preventative medicine were included in the OMM course.

For lab, we generally learned things like Chapman's points along with the systems they represent. For the actual manipulations, we started out learning the basic palpatory techniques, then moved to low-impact techniques (Counterstrain/Muscle Energy) by body part / spinal segment, then later came back and revisited the regions with HVLA. The last lab we had was on Cervical HVLA. Also, our PPC/OMM labs also included the basic physical exam components relative to each system, so that's where we did special testing, vital signs, breath/heart sounds, etc, meaning that we didn't do manipulation in each and every lab. Musculoskeletal and Neuro blocks were the heaviest in OMM, naturally.

Oh for some reason I thought you guys did like 3 hours everyday. 2-4 hours a week is nothing.

 

[DocVapor]

Oh for some reason I thought you guys did like 3 hours everyday. 2-4 hours a week is nothing.

lol. No, I don't think anyone would survive that without some sort of anti-psychotic.

 

[dyspareunia]

lol. No, I don't think anyone would survive that without some sort of anti-psychotic.

Haha, well I feel like I'm always reading DO students saying they have 8-5 classes and I just couldn't imagine that many hours of science lectures.

 

[Jwalker]

How many hours of OMM do you guys have a week?

1 hour lecture. 2 hour lab. But i guess that's too much for some people

 

[bones]

Really? There were just other medical students on here posting that OMM can suck up a lot of valuable time that could be spent either towards "more important" coursework or towards studying for the COMLEX and/or USMLE which I will be taking both. I'm not approaching medical school wrong at all, I'm just making sure (A) I do well in my science coursework and (B) I do well on my COMLEX and USMLE. Time is very valuable and I just want to make sure that OMM, which isn't in my top two priorities for medical school, won't consume too much time. I never thought OMM would consume much time until other medical students just starting to warn me about it, and I'm going to take their advice and make sure I go about OMM in a way that isn't going to sacrifice too much time away from more important things.

When choosing a medical school consider where you will get the best education and where the students are the happiest. If you shadow a top OMM doc and like what you see, that kind of education is hard to get at an MD school, but possible. If you dont see OMM as a part of your career, you may be better served going MD all other things being equal, but things usually arent equal between schools. Having one extra class will not get in the way of your career aspirations, nor will going MD keep you from learning OMM if you are dedicated.

When it comes to free time and stress levels in medical school what you really need to consider is the quality of your instructors- not whether or not there is an OMM class. Great instructors will give you a foundation of common sense knowledge to hang details on. They will make very complicated things seem simple, and your study time at home will be extremely efficient. Bad instructors will expect you to memorize things and regurgitate them for tests, and you will end up needing to read all the textbooks or doing endless drilling of details to pass in those circumstances. It takes a lot longer to study this way, and the long term retention is much poorer. These distinctions in teaching style hold true in all classes of medical school- OMM included. You can ask students at your perspective schools (here on SDN or on campus) how happy they are with their education and how easy they feel it is to learn in class (or if class is a waste of time)- they will probably be quite honest. Everyone eventually learns what they need by the time they pass boards, but quality of education is the difference between a 60 hour week of class time+study vs a 120 hour week of class time+study. The few hours a week in OMM class barely make a scratch in that- and if OMM is taught well those hours will help you in other classes anyway rather than getting in the way.

 

[mke520]

If you have 1 OMM class (lecture and associated lab) per week that corresponds to 1 video lecture -- lets say 1 hour on average. Watch that on 1.75x speed and that's 35 minutes of prep per week. The biggest time drag is the couple hours of lab per week. If you do well in OMM it will be a comprehensive anatomy review and you'll extremely minimal anatomy prep for Step 1. For practical prep, you can do one solid day of review of the techniques and I usually study a full Saturday and Sunday for a written exam (that's it). Doing this minimal method, I have gotten A's on every practical and written exam and finished at the top of the class for first year OMM. There are definitely times I wish I didn't have the extra exam. Maybe 3 times a semester I'll skip a Saturday workout, not volunteer, or skip a day or two of Firecracker to do the extra OMM hours, but I don't think it affects how I'll be prepared for Step 1. This is in contrast to what other people are saying so realize you'll probably be somewhere in the middle.

Honestly that sounds great! It's just I was hearing a lot of stuff about how OMM can just suck up so much time and to be honest I didn't want to run into that situation. Obviously I don't have the experience you guys do with OMM and I know OMM can vary between each school, but if some people are saying it takes up "a lot" of time while others say it's going to be very manageable then you're probably right that I'll end up somewhere in between, which is fine by me.

 

[mke520]

When choosing a medical school consider where you will get the best education and where the students are the happiest. If you shadow a top OMM doc and like what you see, that kind of education is hard to get at an MD school, but possible. If you dont see OMM as a part of your career, you may be better served going MD all other things being equal, but things usually arent equal between schools. Having one extra class will not get in the way of your career aspirations, nor will going MD keep you from learning OMM if you are dedicated.

When it comes to free time and stress levels in medical school what you really need to consider is the quality of your instructors- not whether or not there is an OMM class. Great instructors will give you a foundation of common sense knowledge to hang details on. They will make very complicated things seem simple, and your study time at home will be extremely efficient. Bad instructors will expect you to memorize things and regurgitate them for tests, and you will end up needing to read all the textbooks or doing endless drilling of details to pass in those circumstances. It takes a lot longer to study this way, and the long term retention is much poorer. These distinctions in teaching style hold true in all classes of medical school- OMM included. You can ask students at your perspective schools (here on SDN or on campus) how happy they are with their education and how easy they feel it is to learn in class (or if class is a waste of time)- they will probably be quite honest. Everyone eventually learns what they need by the time they pass boards, but quality of education is the difference between a 60 hour week of class time+study vs a 120 hour week of class time+study. The few hours a week in OMM class barely make a scratch in that- and if OMM is taught well those hours will help you in other classes anyway rather than getting in the way.

Again, thanks for the advice I appreciate it. You make an extremely good point and something I'm going to put some extra thought into for sure.

 

[dyspareunia]

1 hour lecture. 2 hour lab. But i guess that's too much for some people

Do those 2 hour labs usually go the full time? We have various labs for classes and they never go the whole time unless you're one of those students who really likes to learn stuff. For example learning how to make and read gram stains is a 5 minute lab that some people spend a full 90 minutes in. Obviously OMM isn't a 5 minute lab, but even our clinical skills classes don't go the full time.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Do those 2 hour labs usually go the full time? We have various labs for classes and they never go the whole time unless you're one of those students who really likes to learn stuff. For example learning how to make and read gram stains is a 5 minute lab that some people spend a full 90 minutes in. Obviously OMM isn't a 5 minute lab, but even our clinical skills classes don't go the full time.

Our OMM lab always went full time. There were always 5-6 new techniques to learn each lab and we all were given time to learn them one on one with an instructor in our row. Not the same as micro lab. Two different entities. I always looked at OMM as a great stress relief, I got to lay down on the table and have my body worked on. Feels good and refreshing.

 

[Jwalker]

Do those 2 hour labs usually go the full time? We have various labs for classes and they never go the whole time unless you're one of those students who really likes to learn stuff. For example learning how to make and read gram stains is a 5 minute lab that some people spend a full 90 minutes in. Obviously OMM isn't a 5 minute lab, but even our clinical skills classes don't go the full time.

Mine goes the full 2 hours. If you pay attention in lab then you really don't need to study anything until the weekend before if you're a minimal type person. However, I go to a school thats consistently top 3 in OPP on boards and a few of my professors are famous opp rockstars. They write board questions/test us with old board questions. I am pleasantly surprised with how well OPP is done at my school.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Mine goes the full 2 hours. If you pay attention in lab then you really don't need to study anything until the weekend before if you're a minimal type person. However, I go to a school thats consistently top 3 in OPP on boards and a few of my professors are famous opp rockstars. They write board questions/test us with old board questions. I am pleasantly surprised with how well OPP is done at my school.

What school do you go to?

 

[Jwalker]

What school do you go to?

One that gets a lot of love on this site

 

[Dr. Zombie]

One that gets a lot of love on this site

You could've just said NOVA.

 

[NurWollen]

You could've just said NOVA.

Is Nova the Best-DO-school-according-to-SDN de jour?

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Is Nova the Best-DO-school-according-to-SDN de jour?

It's all up to perspective, but I said NOVA not under that criteria, but rather that's the school the individual in question attends. Nothing more to it.

 

[NurWollen]

It's all up to perspective, but I said NOVA not under that criteria, but rather that's the school the individual in question attends. Nothing more to it.

Gotcha

 

[Dustbowl12]

bump sorry but a good thread

any other OMM thoughts or experiences?