Is Level 3 officially the end of having to know OMM?

[deleted1139416]

Or is there anything after Level 3 that you still need to know OMM for?

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[Goro]

AOA Convocation

 

[deleted1139416]

AOA Convocation

What's that?

 

[Prehealth1011]

Sounds like a meeting where they (Gimpel) sit around and talk about bringing the PE back

 

[Goro]

Actually, it's an excuse to party and see old friends.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

You don’t even need to study OMM for level 3. That test is a joke

 

[Ho0v-man]

DOs should still be excited to study OMM. I still use it every morning while I pray to A.T. Still’s ghost.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

The spirit of AT Still will visit you at random during your lifetime, similar to a urine test for people on parole, and make you do OMM to make sure you still deserve the title osteopath. Please study daily

 

[DrZoidbergDO]

This is what happens when you don't practice your omm

 

[kirtar]

Ah yes the classic high velocity high amplitude

 

[deleted1139416]

I'm gonna assume from all the sassy responses that OMM is nonexistent after Step 3....

 

[bioarchaeologist]

I'm planning on just winging OMM on Level 3 so...

 

[Neopolymath]

I'm planning on just winging OMM on Level 3 so...

I have extensively posted how one can easily study probably less than 2 days of OMM prior to all 3 exams combined. It's exactly what I did with no issues whatsoever.

So, yes, one does not need to study OMM for a single second for level 3 provided you know actual medicine.

 

[DrZoidbergDO]

I have extensively posted how one can easily study probably less than 2 days of OMM prior to all 3 exams combined. It's exactly what I did with no issues whatsoever.

So, yes, one does not need to study OMM for a single second for level 3 provided you know actual medicine.

hell, I didn't even study for level 1

 

[group_theory]

Or is there anything after Level 3 that you still need to know OMM for?

As someone who took COMLEX 3 years ago, and completed ACGME residency/fellowship and hold multiple board certifications via ABMS - what's OMM?

 

[deleted1139416]

As someone who took COMLEX 3 years ago, and completed ACGME residency/fellowship and hold multiple board certifications via ABMS - what's OMM?

Do you think in the future AOA could force board certification via the DO route?

 

[Goro]

Do you think in the future AOA could force board certification via the DO route?

Nope. So calm down, and don't be a self hating DO

 

[Mad Jack]

Do you think in the future AOA could force board certification via the DO route?

No, impossible. Hell, there are some states where you don't even need to complete COMLEX to practice as a physician and they'll take the USMLE instead.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Do you think in the future AOA could force board certification via the DO route?

That’s how it used to be. They already had their own board certification and it died instantly with the ACGME merger, if you graduated an AOA residency you were boarded through the AOA.

Now that everything is ACGME you are automatically eligible for the traditional boards (ABS, ABMS, etc).

They would literally have to change state law in order to force people to be boarded by the AOA, which wouldn’t pass legal muster. Such a lawsuit would probably finish the AOA off honestly.

 

[Mad Jack]

That’s how it used to be. They already had their own board certification and it died instantly with the ACGME merger, if you graduated an AOA residency you were boarded through the AOA.

Now that everything is ACGME you are automatically eligible for the traditional boards (ABS, ABMS, etc).

They would literally have to change state law in order to force people to be boarded by the AOA, which wouldn’t pass legal muster. Such a lawsuit would probably finish the AOA off honestly.

And likely present legal challenges with regard to antitrust law that they would not like to invite

 

[deleted1139416]

That’s how it used to be. They already had their own board certification and it died instantly with the ACGME merger, if you graduated an AOA residency you were boarded through the AOA.

Now that everything is ACGME you are automatically eligible for the traditional boards (ABS, ABMS, etc).

They would literally have to change state law in order to force people to be boarded by the AOA, which wouldn’t pass legal muster. Such a lawsuit would probably finish the AOA off honestly.

And likely present legal challenges with regard to antitrust law that they would not like to invite

Would this be any different for physicians practicing in states with separate DO licensing bodies? Or are board certification and licensing two completely separate things?

And thanks for answering my dumba$$ questions LOL

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Would this be any different for physicians practicing in states with separate DO licensing bodies? Or are board certification and licensing two completely separate things?

And thanks for answering my dumba$$ questions LOL

No.

 

[Mad Jack]

Would this be any different for physicians practicing in states with separate DO licensing bodies? Or are board certification and licensing two completely separate things?

And thanks for answering my dumba$$ questions LOL

This only applies in the states with combined boards. States with osteo boards tend to require COMLEX

 

[group_theory]

They would literally have to change state law in order to force people to be boarded by the AOA, which wouldn’t pass legal muster. Such a lawsuit would probably finish the AOA off honestly.

State laws don't deal with board certifications - state medical practice acts (and their respective state board of medicine/osteopathic medicine) deal with licensure and the practice of medicine/osteopathic medicine

As long as you meet the criteria for an unrestricted license - you can get one. I guess the states, in the future, laws can be changed to mandate board certification as a criteria for licensure (none of the 50 US States and territories currently do) but then they would have to define what is acceptable (ABMS, AOA, NBPAS, etc).

So in a sense you are right - they would have to literally change state law

Technically board certification is "optional". The hospital may require (or not require) board certification as part of their credentialing process (and they get to decide what is acceptable). Same with insurance companies. But you can set up your own practice without board certifications, and hospitals, if they are desperate enough, may hire you, without board certifications. Heck, that's what external moonlighting is - working independently with your own license, without board certification or completion of residency

Would this be any different for physicians practicing in states with separate DO licensing bodies? Or are board certification and licensing two completely separate things?

And thanks for answering my dumba$$ questions LOL

Board certification is "voluntary" in the eyes of the law. Medical licensure is required, otherwise you can be charged with "practicing medicine without a license"


But if you have an unrestricted license - nothing is stopping you from setting up shop, proclaim to practice "aesthetic medicine" - do botox injections, and medical spas, and administer flavored scented oxygen - and taking people's cash. Medical board only care if what you are doing results in a danger to the public

 

[group_theory]

This only applies in the states with combined boards. States with osteo boards tend to require COMLEX

Only 6 states require COMLEX for medical licensure - California, Florida, Oklahoma, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. Those states have separate osteopathic medical boards.

Arizona, Maine, Nevada, Tennessee, Utah, and Washington have Osteopathic Medical Boards separate from their MD (allopathic) medical boards but accepts USMLE for purpose of licensure

However, since COMLEX 1 and 2 are required to graduate from DO school -makes sense to just take one exam (COMLEX 3) and be eligible for licensure in all the states

 

[Mad Jack]

Only 6 states require COMLEX for medical licensure - California, Florida, Oklahoma, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. Those states have separate osteopathic medical boards.

Arizona, Maine, Nevada, Tennessee, Utah, and Washington have Osteopathic Medical Boards separate from their MD (allopathic) medical boards but accepts USMLE for purpose of licensure

However, since COMLEX 1 and 2 are required to graduate from DO school -makes sense to just take one exam (COMLEX 3) and be eligible for licensure in all the states

Good to know. I considered going the USMLE route since I already had Step 1, and some students also already have Step 2. Having the ability to be licensed in any state is nice though, especially in the age of telehealth

 

[deleted1139416]

Only 6 states require COMLEX for medical licensure - California, Florida, Oklahoma, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. Those states have separate osteopathic medical boards.

Arizona, Maine, Nevada, Tennessee, Utah, and Washington have Osteopathic Medical Boards separate from their MD (allopathic) medical boards but accepts USMLE for purpose of licensure

However, since COMLEX 1 and 2 are required to graduate from DO school -makes sense to just take one exam (COMLEX 3) and be eligible for licensure in all the states

Why do DOs even bother with Step 3?

 

[PorkChopsOG]

Why do DOs even bother with Step 3?

Frankly, it's an easier exam and some states require it for you to be certified. I didn't feel like taking step 3 for funsies. If I'm going to spend a lot of money, I'd rather do it once and complete my states requirement for certification.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Why do DOs even bother with Step 3?

If you mean USMLE 3 the answers is they don’t.

 

[El-Rami]

The spirit of AT Still will visit you at random during your lifetime, similar to a urine test for people on parole, and make you do OMM to make sure you still deserve the title osteopath. Please study daily

Just don't use forceps when delivering babies, or else A.T. Still's spirit will appear before you and say "You used the tongs, didn't you? I am disappointed in you."

 

[calvinhobbes]

Frankly, it's an easier exam and some states require it for you to be certified. I didn't feel like taking step 3 for funsies. If I'm going to spend a lot of money, I'd rather do it once and complete my states requirement for certification.

Just to clarify, no state requires Step 3, if you have taken COMLEX 3.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Frankly, it's an easier exam and some states require it for you to be certified. I didn't feel like taking step 3 for funsies. If I'm going to spend a lot of money, I'd rather do it once and complete my states requirement for certification.

You mean level 3?

There's utterly no reason a DO in a residency program should take step 3. No fellowship PD is going to look at it and be impressed.

 

[PorkChopsOG]

You mean level 3?

There's utterly no reason a DO in a residency program should take step 3. No fellowship PD is going to look at it and be impressed.

Yeah, sorry for confusing wording. I was saying I would never take step 3 for fun. Because I need to take COMLEX, I will only take COMLEX

 

[Stubbzy]

I still use it every morning while I pray to A.T. Still’s ghost.

Hallowed be thy name 🦴

 

[NontradICUdoc]

If you plan on getting board-certified by the AOA there are some questions, though no specific Chapmans points or procedural questions unless you want to be certified in OMM, which is now optional for family, practice and internal medicine that requires an additional 75 question exam and three simulated patient practical

 

[calvinhobbes]

If you plan on getting board-certified by the AOA there are some questions, though no specific Chapmans points or procedural questions unless you want to be certified in OMM, which is now optional for family, practice and internal medicine that requires an additional 75 question exam and three simulated patient practical

I recently learned about this. Crazy that there exists a new AOA OMM only certification exam lol. Like why? The DO degree should be enough ! Lol. Is it for the NMM (old AOA OMM only) residency?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I recently learned about this. Crazy that there exists a new AOA OMM only certification exam lol. Like why? The DO degree should be enough ! Lol. Is it for the NMM (old AOA OMM only) residency?

No, it's ridiculous. You can become certified in OMT, but if you do the residency, which still exists, you become NMM board certified