Best 6y Oral Surgery Programs

[oralsurg88]

I'm trying to narrow down the top like 5 or 10 programs to look at. What do you guys think? This is just kinda what I've heard from people. I'm mainly interested in big surgery/reconstruction, trauma, and pathology.

1. Parkland
2. LSU - Shreveport
3. University of Kentucky
4. University of Pennsylvania
5. LSU - New Orleans
6. University of Louisville
7. University of Alabama
8. UNC Chapel Hill
9. Houston
10. Oregon Health and Sciences

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[Michael Scarn]

Don't know about that order. Except that Parkland is right where it should be.

But in all seriousness. Every program is a bit different and has it's pros and cons. This is why it's a bit useless to say these are the best etc.

Based on the criteria you named, about any program in the south will fit the bill.

Jacksonville, Loma Linda, San Antonio and Vanderbilt would be firmly entrenched though.

 

[CMistry]

Based on the criteria you named, about any program in the south will fit the bill.

I agree with this (visited most of them) and I would also add Maryland based on your interests.

 

[armorshell]

Yeah I don't really agree with "rankings" but I think you've developed a good "tier" for what you're looking for.

 

[senpai]

I'm trying to narrow down the top like 5 or 10 programs to look at. What do you guys think? This is just kinda what I've heard from people. I'm mainly interested in big surgery/reconstruction, trauma, and pathology.

1. Parkland
2. LSU - Shreveport
3. University of Kentucky
4. University of Pennsylvania
5. LSU - New Orleans
6. University of Louisville
7. University of Alabama
8. UNC Chapel Hill
9. Houston
10. Oregon Health and Sciences

I would scratch UPENN and definetely Oregon. Upenn is 2.5-3 yrs of expensive medical school, no expanded scope, little trauma, and not even that good of numbers on dentoalveolar. Very academic/didactic type program.
Oregon's focus is on their Cancer fellowship. The residents don't really do dentoalveolar, orthognathic cases are low, TMJ is low; basically any traditional/core OMS stuff you don't do alot of. They are in the OR quite a bit, but the fellows are the main operators and alot of the stuff they do is more Head & Neck/ENT since some of the attendings are dual trained in OMS/ENT and cover all the ENT at the hospital. You can't do any of that stuff when you graduate without doing a 2-year cancer fellowship, and even so it is difficult and pays NOTHING.

Again, do yourself a favor and scratch those programs and consider programs like: Jacksonville, Emory, or Jackson Memorial.

Starting to see a trend? If you want the best OMS training you'll end up somewhere in the South...period!

By the way, everyone drools over Parkland, however, Parkland gets a huge ding in my book for way too much medical school. They only spend the minimum 30 months on OMS required for accreditation. nevertheless, their numbers are just as good as anywhere else though, so in the end it doesn't matter I guess. LSU, Alabama, Kentucky spend ~40+ months on OMS. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have an extra 10-12 months on OMS even if I graduated with the same number of cases than have to sit through anextra year of medical school.

I'm from the NE and matched in the South. At first I was reluctant, but once I did some externships down there I fell in love with the people (much nicer and more down to earth), the food, and the cheap housing (you can literally buy a nice home and your mortgage payment will be less than a crappy apartment in the NE or West coast).

 

[green11782]

I would scratch UPENN and definetely Oregon. Upenn is 2.5-3 yrs of expensive medical school, no expanded scope, little trauma, and not even that good of numbers on dentoalveolar. Very academic/didactic type program.
Oregon's focus is on their Cancer fellowship. The residents don't really do dentoalveolar, orthognathic cases are low, TMJ is low; basically any traditional/core OMS stuff you don't do alot of. They are in the OR quite a bit, but the fellows are the main operators and alot of the stuff they do is more Head & Neck/ENT since some of the attendings are dual trained in OMS/ENT and cover all the ENT at the hospital. You can't do any of that stuff when you graduate without doing a 2-year cancer fellowship, and even so it is difficult and pays NOTHING.

Again, do yourself a favor and scratch those programs and consider programs like: Jacksonville, Emory, or Jackson Memorial.

Starting to see a trend? If you want the best OMS training you'll end up somewhere in the South...period!

By the way, everyone drools over Parkland, however, Parkland gets a huge ding in my book for way too much medical school. They only spend the minimum 30 months on OMS required for accreditation. nevertheless, their numbers are just as good as anywhere else though, so in the end it doesn't matter I guess. LSU, Alabama, Kentucky spend ~40+ months on OMS. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have an extra 10-12 months on OMS even if I graduated with the same number of cases than have to sit through anextra year of medical school.

I'm from the NE and matched in the South. At first I was reluctant, but once I did some externships down there I fell in love with the people (much nicer and more down to earth), the food, and the cheap housing (you can literally buy a nice home and your mortgage payment will be less than a crappy apartment in the NE or West coast).

Which program are u in?

 

[live]

OP... You have a great list of programs there! Almost anyone interested in OMS would be lucky to train at any of those programs. However, you should read and really listen to some of what has been said on here. Some "big name" programs do too much med school in my opinion or do too little traditional OMS. Jax and Parkland are GREAT surgical experiences from what I saw with great attendings but if you want sedations, 3rds, implants, etc in your training also you might want to look elsewhere. See what we are all getting at?? There's a wide variety of training you can get and miss out on based on where you go. Either way I do agree you need to migrate south All the best programs are down here for sure. Oh and Kentucky doesn't do 40+ months on OMS... They do a lot of med school too! Solid program though. From my trail experience I only found 3-4 programs with 40+ months of OMS (LSU-NO, Louisville, Alabama, and Shreveport I believe did as well) These are also VERY well respected programs with great training experience in a lot of OMS areas... Win win in my opinion. Best of luck to you!

 

[senpai]

OP... You have a great list of programs there! Almost anyone interested in OMS would be lucky to train at any of those programs. However, you should read and really listen to some of what has been said on here. Some "big name" programs do too much med school in my opinion or do too little traditional OMS. Jax and Parkland are GREAT surgical experiences from what I saw with great attendings but if you want sedations, 3rds, implants, etc in your training also you might want to look elsewhere. See what we are all getting at?? There's a wide variety of training you can get and miss out on based on where you go. Either way I do agree you need to migrate south All the best programs are down here for sure. Oh and Kentucky doesn't do 40+ months on OMS... They do a lot of med school too! Solid program though. From my trail experience I only found 3-4 programs with 40+ months of OMS (LSU-NO, Louisville, Alabama, and Shreveport I believe did as well) These are also VERY well respected programs with great training experience in a lot of OMS areas... Win win in my opinion. Best of luck to you!

Thanks for the clarification. It is the LOUISVILLE program, not the University of Kentucky program in Lexington, that is ~40-41 months.

Louisville's curriculum is as as follows:
1 - 10m OMFS, 2m Anesthesia;
2 - 10m 3rd yr Med, 2m OMFS;
3 - 10m 4th yr Med, 2m OMFS;
4 - 7m GS, 2m Anesthesia, 3m OMFS;
5 - OMFS;
6 - OMFS

https://louisville.edu/dental/oralsurgery/program

 

[L8DYV]

I <3 LSU New Orleans!!

 

[GTFOOMICT]

By the way, everyone drools over Parkland, however, Parkland gets a huge ding in my book for way too much medical school. They only spend the minimum 30 months on OMS required for accreditation. nevertheless, their numbers are just as good as anywhere else though, so in the end it doesn't matter I guess. LSU, Alabama, Kentucky spend ~40+ months on OMS. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have an extra 10-12 months on OMS even if I graduated with the same number of cases than have to sit through anextra year of medical school.

I'm from the NE and matched in the South. At first I was reluctant, but once I did some externships down there I fell in love with the people (much nicer and more down to earth), the food, and the cheap housing (you can literally buy a nice home and your mortgage payment will be less than a crappy apartment in the NE or West coast).

Yes Parkland's med school is a huge issue. It'll only get worse at places with good med schools or self proclaimed good med schools who demand more and more time. The NBME entrance exam could make or break this trend as it gives med schools a true evaluation not a smoke-and-mirrors-90 on NBDE. At least it's all in the beginning of the 6 years....and 'cheap'. BTW, the 2nd year of med school used to be filled with moonlighting and research, it wasn't much of a 'lost' year. It was an extremely valued year in the curriculum by all. Things have changed and going in a different direction. Long term there will be less med school, gen surg and more anesthesia and OMS.

The South is the place to be though. I'd take Parkland 30 months over most other places in the country though if 6yr was the gig you wanted. The logs and graduate's success prove that.

 

[L8DYV]

During my interview trail and talking to others with externship experiences and my own taking from my own experiences, I also thought southern programs offered the most training opportunities, educational value and clinical experiences compared to those in different regions of the country.

 

[oralsurg88]

Thanks for the replies! I'll definitely focus on the schools in the south and try to get a few externships lined up down there.

 

[Xigris14]

This topic is always brought up each year. Listen to me I have the answer. I have been out for several years and practice full scope. I mean full scope not "full scope dentalalveolar" or the occasional TMJ or orthognathic case.

Most OMFS do dentalalveolar. Period. Plus an occasional mandible.maxilla trauma, occasional ortho surg, occasional TMJ case.

The others are true full scope, level 1 trauma, ortho surg (at least what insurance is allowing these days which is not much) TMJ, Cosmetics, path. etc..

I choose my residency to exclude Head and Neck/Craniofacial. Not that I do not enjoy those cases. Two reasons for this:

1) Private practice guys are not doing this. No time, plus you need fellowship trainaing.
2) No money. These cases usually do not pay well. Head and Neck can but lots of Medicare and no pay which means not much in your pocket afterwards. Therefore you rely on academic salary or crappy reimbursement from medicaid/medicare.

So sure you can walk out of an expanded scope program (I mean more geared to fellowship surgical cases) with your balls hanging out because you think your a bad ass mofo cause you have done big craniofacial cases/head and neck cases, etc. In reality. Get ready to tuck them back in your pants because reality is going to set in and nobody in your private practice or the community will care about your ability to take someones face off and put it back on. They care about taking out a tooth in a timely manner or removing thirds/doing a implant. Therefore my decision to bypass those bigger fellowship based programs and go to a program with great exposure to traditional OMFS (ortho surg/tmj/benign path/some cosmetics, dentoalveolar, trauma.) I look at it like this, "what am I going to get out of my experience. Get more out of a long reconstruction with a fibula and pec flap or in that same time knock out some TMJ/Ortho surg cases, Maybe even some implants or bone graft."

thanks
my thoughts/

 

[senpai]

This topic is always brought up each year. Listen to me I have the answer. I have been out for several years and practice full scope. I mean full scope not "full scope dentalalveolar" or the occasional TMJ or orthognathic case.

Most OMFS do dentalalveolar. Period. Plus an occasional mandible.maxilla trauma, occasional ortho surg, occasional TMJ case.

The others are true full scope, level 1 trauma, ortho surg (at least what insurance is allowing these days which is not much) TMJ, Cosmetics, path. etc..

I choose my residency to exclude Head and Neck/Craniofacial. Not that I do not enjoy those cases. Two reasons for this:

1) Private practice guys are not doing this. No time, plus you need fellowship trainaing.
2) No money. These cases usually do not pay well. Head and Neck can but lots of Medicare and no pay which means not much in your pocket afterwards. Therefore you rely on academic salary or crappy reimbursement from medicaid/medicare.

So sure you can walk out of an expanded scope program (I mean more geared to fellowship surgical cases) with your balls hanging out because you think your a bad ass mofo cause you have done big craniofacial cases/head and neck cases, etc. In reality. Get ready to tuck them back in your pants because reality is going to set in and nobody in your private practice or the community will care about your ability to take someones face off and put it back on. They care about taking out a tooth in a timely manner or removing thirds/doing a implant. Therefore my decision to bypass those bigger fellowship based programs and go to a program with great exposure to traditional OMFS (ortho surg/tmj/benign path/some cosmetics, dentoalveolar, trauma.) I look at it like this, "what am I going to get out of my experience. Get more out of a long reconstruction with a fibula and pec flap or in that same time knock out some TMJ/Ortho surg cases, Maybe even some implants or bone graft."

thanks
my thoughts/

This is the exact issue with Oregon's program, it's built around training its fellows to go in to academics and do Cancer/H&N, not to train it's residents in OMS. The focus is fellowship head & neck cases; little orthognathic, TMJ, dentolveolar, etc.
The programs in the South definitely do their fair share of big cases, but the difference is the other aspects of their scope are not compromised, to the contrary, their orthognathic, TMJ, dentoalveolar, benign/malignant pathology, trauma, etc. are still the highest case loads in the country.

 

[hotrod0917]

I'm trying to narrow down the top like 5 or 10 programs to look at. What do you guys think? This is just kinda what I've heard from people. I'm mainly interested in big surgery/reconstruction, trauma, and pathology.

1. Parkland
2. LSU - Shreveport
3. University of Kentucky
4. University of Pennsylvania
5. LSU - New Orleans
6. University of Louisville
7. University of Alabama
8. UNC Chapel Hill
9. Houston
10. Oregon Health and Sciences

To OP:
You have to really make sure this is what you want to do long term. As many people have expressed, most of us will go into "traditional" practice doing Dentoalveolar, orthog, benign path, tmj.

However, if you are truly dedicated/interested in larger surgeries, for one thing, you cannot take your medical education lightly. You will need to take care of these patients perioperatively, not just intraop, These patients tend to be sicker, have more complications, and you need to be able to handle the technical difficulties of the larger surgeries, but also the medical challenges. I understand that we're surgeons, so we need to operate, but don't think medical school time as time wasted. It is as useful as you make it to be.

One more thing, if you are interested in larger surgeries, there are some powerhouses not located in the south: Maryland, OHSU, Loma Linda, and last but not least, MICHIGAN .

Again, the best advice I can give you is, make sure you know that this is the road that you want to go down. It's going to be a longer road than most, especially since it is true that you'll likely need to complete a fellowship to do the surgeries regularly.

A procedure could be a great learning experience for one resident, while being complete waste of time for another. It just depends on what you are planning to do after the training.

 

[oralsurg88]

Thanks for the feedback guys! I have close relations with several surgeons in my area who went to big name schools so they can focus on large surgeries and have spent quite a bit of time making sure this is what I want (I'm a second year but have already spent a month+ in externships). I actually love medicine and I see a good chance of a fellowship after the 6 year program (and possibly spending a little time in education). So I might keep Oregon in the back of my mind if I choose to do a fellowship down the road but for now I'll stick with schools that have a strong med program and large surgery load.

 

[armorshell]

So I might keep Oregon in the back of my mind if I choose to do a fellowship down the road but for now I'll stick with schools that have a strong med program and large surgery load.

Whoa whoa there tiger. When you say strong med program, I hope you mean "as short and cheap as possible."

Even if we're talking about medical management of sick patients (important for any OMS planning on doing these types of surgeries), these are things you will learn during the surgical portion of your training, NOT during medical school.

Focus on the residency portion of where you want to train.

 

[fdasta]

I would scratch UPENN and definetely Oregon. Upenn is 2.5-3 yrs of expensive medical school, no expanded scope, little trauma, and not even that good of numbers on dentoalveolar. Very academic/didactic type program.
Oregon's focus is on their Cancer fellowship. The residents don't really do dentoalveolar, orthognathic cases are low, TMJ is low; basically any traditional/core OMS stuff you don't do alot of. They are in the OR quite a bit, but the fellows are the main operators and alot of the stuff they do is more Head & Neck/ENT since some of the attendings are dual trained in OMS/ENT and cover all the ENT at the hospital. You can't do any of that stuff when you graduate without doing a 2-year cancer fellowship, and even so it is difficult and pays NOTHING.

Again, do yourself a favor and scratch those programs and consider programs like: Jacksonville, Emory, or Jackson Memorial.

Starting to see a trend? If you want the best OMS training you'll end up somewhere in the South...period!

By the way, everyone drools over Parkland, however, Parkland gets a huge ding in my book for way too much medical school. They only spend the minimum 30 months on OMS required for accreditation. nevertheless, their numbers are just as good as anywhere else though, so in the end it doesn't matter I guess. LSU, Alabama, Kentucky spend ~40+ months on OMS. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have an extra 10-12 months on OMS even if I graduated with the same number of cases than have to sit through anextra year of medical school.

I'm from the NE and matched in the South. At first I was reluctant, but once I did some externships down there I fell in love with the people (much nicer and more down to earth), the food, and the cheap housing (you can literally buy a nice home and your mortgage payment will be less than a crappy apartment in the NE or West coast).

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment as I thought UPenn was a good solid program. They actually only spend about 24-25 months in med school. It is true that tuition is expensive but you get paid all 6 years which offsets the high tuition.

They cover traditional OMFS scope. Lots of orthognathics, doing about 3 cases a week. I think the total for the year was 130+. They probably do more TMJ surgeries than most programs, doing the full gamut from arthrocentesis, arthroscopies, arthroplasties, and total joint replacements. They also do lots of benign pathology. The nice thing is that they have a ton of full time attendings so you get a nice range of teaching styles and procedures. Seemed like a great environment, not malignant at all.

Trauma experience I thought was adequate. They split face with ENT and plastics at their main hospital, which is commonly done at many programs. They are the only service covering face at the other hospitals they cover. Also one of the stronger pediatric trauma experiences around, as they split face with only plastics at their children's hospital.

As far as dentoalveolar, they may appear to be weak on the surface but that's because they focus more on OR cases at their main hospital and a lot of their dentoalveolar experience comes from the dental school rotations and their rotations through the other hospitals. I think one weakness seemed to be that they were a bit low on implants but you get a good experience through the VA rotation.

A lot of people ask what's a good program in the northeast and I think UPenn qualifies.

 

[joefosho315]

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment as I thought UPenn was a good solid program. They actually only spend about 24-25 months in med school. It is true that tuition is expensive but you get paid all 6 years which offsets the high tuition.

They cover traditional OMFS scope. Lots of orthognathics, doing about 3 cases a week. I think the total for the year was 130+. They probably do more TMJ surgeries than most programs, doing the full gamut from arthrocentesis, arthroscopies, arthroplasties, and total joint replacements. They also do lots of benign pathology. The nice thing is that they have a ton of full time attendings so you get a nice range of teaching styles and procedures. Seemed like a great environment, not malignant at all.

Trauma experience I thought was adequate. They split face with ENT and plastics at their main hospital, which is commonly done at many programs. They are the only service covering face at the other hospitals they cover. Also one of the stronger pediatric trauma experiences around, as they split face with only plastics at their children's hospital.

As far as dentoalveolar, they may appear to be weak on the surface but that's because they focus more on OR cases at their main hospital and a lot of their dentoalveolar experience comes from the dental school rotations and their rotations through the other hospitals. I think one weakness seemed to be that they were a bit low on implants but you get a good experience through the VA rotation.

A lot of people ask what's a good program in the northeast and I think UPenn qualifies.

I interviewed at quite a few programs this past cycle, including a lot of the popularly named ones on this forum, and I can definitely agree with your post.

 

[GTFOOMICT]

i'm not sure i agree with your assessment as i thought upenn was a good solid program. They actually only spend about 24-25 months in med school. It is true that tuition is expensive but you get paid all 6 years which offsets the high tuition.

They cover traditional omfs scope. Lots of orthognathics, doing about 3 cases a week. I think the total for the year was 130+. They probably do more tmj surgeries than most programs, doing the full gamut from arthrocentesis, arthroscopies, arthroplasties, and total joint replacements. They also do lots of benign pathology. The nice thing is that they have a ton of full time attendings so you get a nice range of teaching styles and procedures. Seemed like a great environment, not malignant at all.

Trauma experience i thought was adequate. They split face with ent and plastics at their main hospital, which is commonly done at many programs. They are the only service covering face at the other hospitals they cover. Also one of the stronger pediatric trauma experiences around, as they split face with only plastics at their children's hospital.

As far as dentoalveolar, they may appear to be weak on the surface but that's because they focus more on or cases at their main hospital and a lot of their dentoalveolar experience comes from the dental school rotations and their rotations through the other hospitals. I think one weakness seemed to be that they were a bit low on implants but you get a good experience through the va rotation.

A lot of people ask what's a good program in the northeast and i think upenn qualifies.

hair transplants.....

 

[GTFOOMICT]

When you say strong med program, I hope you mean "as short and cheap as possible."

hey i like med school

 

[Xigris14]

Very Well Stated. "A procedure could be a great learning experience for one resident, while being complete waste of time for another. It just depends on what you are planning to do after the training."

This makes every program different in its own way. Some may see bigger cases as attractive. (Head/Neck/Craniofacial). However remember these programs have fellows which means little to no cutting for you my friend. That may not matter to some. To me it did. I suggest with all these externships place some time in the community in a private practice to see what life is like. You will get an appreciation for private practice for the most part. Reality is not Parkland/Oregon/Maryland. For a few who do fellowships afterwards it is or go into academics it can be. For the majority it will not be and thats why one needs to choose their program wisely. Thats not to say all your going to do is take out teeth. Some surgeon do and love it. Good for them. Others hate that and stay in academics or fellowship to practice what they love. Again its what you love to do and your long term desires in life. Try not to look at a name in a program but to look at the type of surgeon you want to be and focus on obtaining those skills with the program that best matches those same interests.

again just my thoughts

 

[FaceDMD]

I think that there is an up and coming program that most users don't know about/haven't had much exposure to: Case Western. Historically a good program but not one of the powerhouses due to lack of heavy trauma, but now that they have incorporated Metro, they will quickly become one of the better programs in the country.

--Only 5 yrs (can do fellowship 6th year if desired)
--Only 12 months of med school (3rd year rotations only!!)--top 25 med school--can complete rotations at UH, cleveland clinic, or metro.
--Only 9 months of Gen Surg (3 mo plastics, 2 ENT, 1 NSG, 1 trauma, 1 SICU, 1PEDs,)
--34 months on OMS Service
--Metro is level I trauma--one of the busiest trauma centers in the US (lots of gunshot wounds, panfacials, etc)
--Lots of pathology, TMJ, and reconstruction. Dr. Baur did a cancer fellowship at Michigan and does malignant and benign tumors. Enough to be comfortable doing anything in private practice and to get familiar enough for fellowship if interested, but not bogged down doing only cancer like some of the big cancer programs.
--Case already does lots of cosmetics (Dr. Quereshy is cosmetics fellowship trained- one of the few programs where the residents will be doing their own resident cosmetic cases ie: face lifts, blephs, lipo, brow lift, platysmaplasty, botox, restylane etc)
--Tons of implants (Interns placing 50-100 implants first year--total of 300-500 by end--also lots of grafts, sinus lifts, etc.--don't believe it when people say if you can do trauma/reconstruction you can do implants--it takes about 50-100 before you realize your mistakes and you don't want that learning curve to happen in practice)

--Residents cut 100% of every case (including cancer, reconstruction, cosmetics, orthognathics, etc)
--strong anesthesia experience, 5 months, treated like anesthesia resident
--Three new full time attendings at Metro.
--Three faculty that sit on ABOMS board -- good prep for boards.

Case covers Metro, Cleveland Clinic, University Hospitals, and the Cleveland VA. Pretty much every big case going through northern Ohio and the surrounding area goes through that program now.

All the benefits of a six year program without the extra year of Med school, or even worse and extra year of gen surg, in only 5 years. With broad scope, big case load, residents are happy and get along with each other and attendings, by far one of the best programs in country.

 

[nopo]

I would scratch UPENN and definetely Oregon. Upenn is 2.5-3 yrs of expensive medical school, no expanded scope, little trauma, and not even that good of numbers on dentoalveolar. Very academic/didactic type program.
Oregon's focus is on their Cancer fellowship. The residents don't really do dentoalveolar, orthognathic cases are low, TMJ is low; basically any traditional/core OMS stuff you don't do alot of. They are in the OR quite a bit, but the fellows are the main operators and alot of the stuff they do is more Head & Neck/ENT since some of the attendings are dual trained in OMS/ENT and cover all the ENT at the hospital. You can't do any of that stuff when you graduate without doing a 2-year cancer fellowship, and even so it is difficult and pays NOTHING.

Again, do yourself a favor and scratch those programs and consider programs like: Jacksonville, Emory, or Jackson Memorial.

Starting to see a trend? If you want the best OMS training you'll end up somewhere in the South...period!

By the way, everyone drools over Parkland, however, Parkland gets a huge ding in my book for way too much medical school. They only spend the minimum 30 months on OMS required for accreditation. nevertheless, their numbers are just as good as anywhere else though, so in the end it doesn't matter I guess. LSU, Alabama, Kentucky spend ~40+ months on OMS. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have an extra 10-12 months on OMS even if I graduated with the same number of cases than have to sit through anextra year of medical school.

I'm from the NE and matched in the South. At first I was reluctant, but once I did some externships down there I fell in love with the people (much nicer and more down to earth), the food, and the cheap housing (you can literally buy a nice home and your mortgage payment will be less than a crappy apartment in the NE or West coast).

I would take advice on programs from anonymous dental students online with a grain of salt. Talk with your local program director.

 

[Romas]

I'm trying to narrow down the top like 5 or 10 programs to look at. What do you guys think? This is just kinda what I've heard from people. I'm mainly interested in big surgery/reconstruction, trauma, and pathology.

1. Parkland
2. LSU - Shreveport
3. University of Kentucky
4. University of Pennsylvania
5. LSU - New Orleans
6. University of Louisville
7. University of Alabama
8. UNC Chapel Hill
9. Houston
10. Oregon Health and Sciences

Not sure why UPenn is on the list...

 

[GTFOOMICT]

I got 2 weeks off for christmas. I surveyed EVERY oral surgeon in the world.

And the winner is.....Parkland. p=.005.

 

[achilles2]

If you want the history and street cred its gonna be hard to knock Parkland off the #1 spot

I agree with the poster that said to not overlook bread and butter OMFS......odds are in private practice you won't be worth much if you can't place your implants on the money and make patients like you.

I thought Emory was an outstanding program (very well rounded, solid implant numbers, good moonlighting, and you get to test your balls at Grady. The current OMFS chief was invited into an Emory ENT only fellowship for microvascular). Alot of call tho, def not a program for the weak. I don't remember for sure but maybe the cosmetic numbers were not that amazing at Emory.

LSU-NO I saw the RESIDENTS do more procedures than just about anywhere. In terms of resident cutting I think its gonna be hard to beat out LSU-NO. Def worth an externship. In all fairness I've only seen a limited number of places, but LSU-NO has a cowboy rep for a reason, those residents can play.

But alot of people here sleep on dentoalveolar and implant exposure. Unless you want your local periodontist to replace you I advise taking dentoalveolar seriously. Dentoalveolar is going to buy your wife that benz and allow you the freedom and time to do some bigger cases.

If you like TMJ I think UPenn and Cornell are worth taking a peek at, I don't know how strong they are in other areas tho. Emory is pretty solid at TMJ.

Dentoalveolar and implants I've heard that you may want to look at UCLA and Columbia.

Point in there are ALOT of good programs, it depends on what you want to do, where you want to live, and the culture you fit in with. You just can't say that xyz is the "best", many programs have different strengths and weaknesses.

Also I've heard good things about alot of programs that don't get as many shoutouts, try to look around besides the "big names". You might just find a diamond in the rough.

On a side note if you are hungry for those big cases I would be careful at places that have fellows. Fellow eats more, resident eats less

 

[keeneye]

If you want the history and street cred its gonna be hard to knock Parkland off the #1 spot

I agree with the poster that said to not overlook bread and butter OMFS......odds are in private practice you won't be worth much if you can't place your implants on the money and make patients like you.

I thought Emory was an outstanding program (very well rounded, solid implant numbers, good moonlighting, and you get to test your balls at Grady. The current OMFS chief was invited into an Emory ENT only fellowship for microvascular). Alot of call tho, def not a program for the weak. I don't remember for sure but maybe the cosmetic numbers were not that amazing at Emory.

LSU-NO I saw the RESIDENTS do more procedures than just about anywhere. In terms of resident cutting I think its gonna be hard to beat out LSU-NO. Def worth an externship. In all fairness I've only seen a limited number of places, but LSU-NO has a cowboy rep for a reason, those residents can play.

But alot of people here sleep on dentoalveolar and implant exposure. Unless you want your local periodontist to replace you I advise taking dentoalveolar seriously. Dentoalveolar is going to buy your wife that benz and allow you the freedom and time to do some bigger cases.

If you like TMJ I think UPenn and Cornell are worth taking a peek at, I don't know how strong they are in other areas tho. Emory is pretty solid at TMJ.

Dentoalveolar and implants I've heard that you may want to look at UCLA and Columbia.

Point in there are ALOT of good programs, it depends on what you want to do, where you want to live, and the culture you fit in with. You just can't say that xyz is the "best", many programs have different strengths and weaknesses.

Also I've heard good things about alot of programs that don't get as many shoutouts, try to look around besides the "big names". You might just find a diamond in the rough.

On a side note if you are hungry for those big cases I would be careful at places that have fellows. Fellow eats more, resident eats less

So the question remains. Best 6 year Oral Maxillofacial Surgery program. Many programs have tradition, culture, and a history of producing well known Academic Professionals. What is most important? This question is emphasized at least once a year in JOMS by Dr. James Hupp. A program that offers residents the exposure to full scope OMFS, In addition to exposure, and even more important, is the ability to achieve competence (and maybe more) in full scope OMFS. That might be a "perfect" program for a resident.

I think secondary to that, but not least important, would be quality of medical education, encouragement and mandating publications to contribute to your specialty, understanding how the profession is evolving, etc...

 

[The Dawgfather]

Whoa whoa there tiger. When you say strong med program, I hope you mean "as short and cheap as possible."

Even if we're talking about medical management of sick patients (important for any OMS planning on doing these types of surgeries), these are things you will learn during the surgical portion of your training, NOT during medical school.

Focus on the residency portion of where you want to train.

Unless you want to hang a Harvard diploma in your office (great for advertising) in which case MGH is very nice!!

 

[88845]

Unless you want to hang a Harvard diploma in your office (great for advertising) in which case MGH is very nice!!

Can't argue with that! Speaking of, what would make an applicant stand out for MGH/Harvard?

 

[soon2beDMD]

Can't argue with that! Speaking of, what would make an applicant stand out for MGH/Harvard?

Attend Harvard, Columbia, Penn, or UCLA for dental school, rank in the top 5%, >95 on boards (well before P/F that is...), show interest with an externship, publish research, letters of rec from well-known OMFS...maybe even co-author First Aid for NBDE Part 1 (true story).....ya know, all no big deal

 

[keeneye]

Unless you want to hang a Harvard diploma in your office (great for advertising) in which case MGH is very nice!!

Toward which audience will this be advertised?

 

[AlbinoPolarBear]

Toward which audience will this be advertised?

The ones that matter most, the chicks, I assume.

 

[The Dawgfather]

Attend Harvard, Columbia, Penn, or UCLA for dental school, rank in the top 5%, >95 on boards (well before P/F that is...), show interest with an externship, publish research, letters of rec from well-known OMFS...maybe even co-author First Aid for NBDE Part 1 (true story).....ya know, all no big deal

Or none of the above and do well during a prelim year

 

[88845]

Attend Harvard, Columbia, Penn, or UCLA for dental school, rank in the top 5%, >95 on boards (well before P/F that is...), show interest with an externship, publish research, letters of rec from well-known OMFS...maybe even co-author First Aid for NBDE Part 1 (true story).....ya know, all no big deal

Or none of the above and do well during a prelim year

Good to know, Dawgfather!

After the prelim year at MGH did you start at PGY-1 or do they allow their prelims to move into a categorical position?

 

[UNLV OMS GUNNABE]

Can't argue with that! Speaking of, what would make an applicant stand out for MGH/Harvard?

a strong desire to not operate very much...
haha, I kid I kid... but seriously

 

[88845]

a strong desire to not operate very much...
haha, I kid I kid... but seriously

LOL!

MGH OMS was representing hard on the first episode of Boston Med, though.

 

[The Dawgfather]

Good to know, Dawgfather!

After the prelim year at MGH did you start at PGY-1 or do they allow their prelims to move into a categorical position?

No, Unfortunately had to start at PGY-1. Cant move into categorical because acceptance into the program = auto admission into HMS and HMS is not involved in selecting the prelim as they are the categoricals.

a strong desire to not operate very much...
haha, I kid I kid... but seriously

That stings. I guess the details on the program haven't been updated in a while. Look for updated info on the program in the overview thread when I get some time.

 

[UNLV OMS GUNNABE]

That stings. I guess the details on the program haven't been updated in a while. Look for updated info on the program in the overview thread when I get some time.

I actually know nothing about the program, just stirring the pot...

 

[The Dawgfather]

I love a good ole pot stirrin...

speaking of which, whats this I hear about OHSU and a second visit from CODA. Is this true or am I way off? Does that mean anything? Also, any thoughts on who would be the next chair at UCSF? I hear Bell is in the running

 

[GTFOOMICT]

UCSF needs a strong leader. They have been decimated. Look what NYU has done with a few of their fresh UCSF recruits. Good for them.

Ah UCSF, get your act together. SF proper needs OMS represented!

 

[The Anhedonia]

No, Unfortunately had to start at PGY-1. Cant move into categorical because acceptance into the program = auto admission into HMS and HMS is not involved in selecting the prelim as they are the categoricals.




That stings. I guess the details on the program haven't been updated in a while. Look for updated info on the program in the overview thread when I get some time.

YES PLEASE