Best amongst schools that give out full scholarships?

[Xibye]

So WashU is not in "St. Louis" as you describe? The Central West End wasn't counted in the statistics. And you're right, it's in a great location. BTW, its address is in St. Louis, so something must have been awry in the statistics

I didn't say it's in a great location. Even if it's a better area that is adjacent to a slummy area, crime spills over and often the nearby wealth becomes a target for criminals. When there are that many desparate people succombing to crimal activity, it is easy for them to walk or drive over to Wash U's campus to mug some student who in their mind is rich and doesn't need the money anyway. Many of the Wash U students I know have been affected by the spillover crime. As far as med schools go, I argue that Wash U is still a concern. Of course, I would argue that Hopkins is in a terribly dangerous place as well.

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[randomapplicant]

Seems to be that critics fall into three categories:

The "You Don't Benefit From the Hospital, Anyway" Category-

This angry mob likes to point out that at top hospitals, you can't touch the elite patient population, and that medical school clinical training is useless anyway since you'll be learning everything in your first month of internship.

The "Class Size, Curriculum, and Non-Malignancy Don't Matter" Category:

On the other side of the spectrum (or frighteningly, on the same side often) as the first category, this group of naysayers likes to point out the first few years don't really even matter, since you learn medicine in the second half of your education.

The "I Hate the Location, Weather, and Lack of Public Name Recognition" Category

Of the three subsets of angry posters, this group has possibly the most rational reason to rag on the #2 and #3 hospitals in the country. Hey, if it doesn't float your boat... I hear Baltimore has an incredibly beautiful... nevermind.

So then, if where you receive your clinical training doesn't matter, and pre-clinical training is a joke, what exactly is left? Ahh yes, hot air. I think what this thread has done a good job of deciding is the appropriate course of action is for pre-medical students:

Attend Harvard or Hopkins or risk being ridiculed for your choices in medical education for the remainder of your life. Rumor has it that Mayo and CCLCM grads end up doing well-child checks at the Walmart in Billings, Montana; since residency directors didn't even know those two institutions had medical schools, they failed to match anywhere. To add insult to injury, almost every day a patient asks a Mayo grad if they did their pre-medical education at Ketchup State University.

 

[Towelie]

I have all the respect in the world for Mayo and CCLCM. I think that they are both great schools. But I can't get over how cocky some of their students and applicants are. They all continuously echo the "we are the most underrated school" over and over and over again. These people need to face facts:

-Rochester and Cleveland are two of the least desirable places to live, if not THE two least desirable places to live, out of any medical school locations in North America.

-Best Hospital does not equate to best school.

-Some people want a class of more than 40 people.

-A good portion of doctors around the country have no clue that these medical schools exist. You can deny it all day, but it's true.

These facts do not negate that these are both great schools. But please, stop telling us how underrated your schools are. We don't care.

 

[randomapplicant]

I have all the respect in the world for Mayo and CCLCM. I think that they are both great schools. But I can't get over how cocky some of their students and applicants are. They all continuously echo the "we are the most underrated school" over and over and over again. These people need to face facts:

-Rochester and Cleveland are two of the least desirable places to live, if not THE two least desirable places to live, out of any medical school locations in North America.

-Best Hospital does not equate to best school.

-Some people want a class of more than 40 people.

-A good portion of doctors around the country have no clue that these medical schools exist. You can deny it all day, but it's true.

These facts do not negate that these are both great schools. But please, stop telling us how underrated your schools are. We don't care.

Hey, I could care less about them being underrated, it happens. I'm just a bit tired of people railing on them incessantly, and for the most pointless of reasons. I also have a hard time buying that Baltimore and St. Louis aren't worse than Rochester, but whatever. It just seems like these schools delivered rejection letters via singing telegram or something.

 

[Xibye]

I have all the respect in the world for Mayo and CCLCM. I think that they are both great schools. But I can't get over how cocky some of their students and applicants are. They all continuously echo the "we are the most underrated school" over and over and over again. These people need to face facts:

-Rochester and Cleveland are two of the least desirable places to live, if not THE two least desirable places to live, out of any medical school locations in North America.

-Best Hospital does not equate to best school.

-Some people want a class of more than 40 people.

-A good portion of doctors around the country have no clue that these medical schools exist. You can deny it all day, but it's true.

These facts do not negate that these are both great schools. But please, stop telling us how underrated your schools are. We don't care.

Wow, You really ARE a towel and a wet one at that..(joking)

Everything you said is comepletly subjective. You should speak only for yourself because when you try to speak for others it is clear that you are simply full of it.

1- Some people like Minnesota and Ohio over other places. Who are you to say they are least desireable places to live?

2 - Best hospital and nearly best school do combine in a pretty powerful way

3- Many people would argue that small class size is an incredible pro and not a con. It's personal preference entirely.

4- You do not know "a good portion of doctors in this country" so again you can not speak for them. You are pretending to be an expert on something you know little about. Go do a survey of "a good portion of doctors in this country" and get back to me with statistically significant results of how Mayo is unknown. There is a huge chance you will prove yourself wrong once again.

And I swear I am not cocky. Neither are any of the other mayo student/applicants that I have met.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

-Rochester and Cleveland are two of the least desirable places to live, if not THE two least desirable places to live, out of any medical school locations in North America.

try ETSU...Johnson City, TN is miserable.

 

[rax]

Don't get me wrong. I like Mayo. If they were in a different location I would have applied and been dying to go there (my wife vetoed the idea of Mayo when I told her where it was).

I think it's time that you actually book a flight to Minnesota and check out the Twin Cities and Rochester. See for yourself. Don't just take your wife's word for it. The twin cities and rochester get listed in the top places to live frequently due to their access to a wide range of culture activities and because they are afforable, safe, and beautiful places to live. Some people are summer people, some people are winter people. But you take a trip there and then tell me those are not really interesting, beautiful, exciting places. I think your wife and you are allowing yourselves to be unfairly biased.

By the way, just checked out the Mayo website. They say that "ninety-five percent of Mayo 4th year students match with one of their top three residency choices". That's just incredible. Makes me wish I had gotten in....

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

By the way, just checked out the Mayo website. They say that "ninety-fice percent of Mayo 4th year students match with one of their top three residency choices". That's just incredible. Makes me wish I had gotten in....

this is a bad, bad statistic to put any weight on. a *lot* of selection bias is at work in this.

 

[Dookter]

By the way, just checked out the Mayo website. They say that "ninety-five percent of Mayo 4th year students match with one of their top three residency choices". That's just incredible. Makes me wish I had gotten in....

So do most other medical students....that statistic is absolutely worthless.... I don't even feel like pointing out why...anyone else want to waste time explaining this?

 

[rax]

this is a bad, bad statistic to put any weight on. a *lot* of selection bias is at work in this.

What do you mean by that?

Oh, the other thing I just read on the website is that 40% of students get residency at Mayo...and that's not too bad considering it's FL and AZ as well as MN.

 

[rax]

So do most other medical students....that statistic is absolutely worthless.... I don't even feel like pointing out why...anyone else want to waste time explaining this?

take those crankpants off!

 

[gujuDoc]

I only remember a couple off the top of my head, but how would you rank them.

U Chicago
Vanderbilt
Mayo
Case Western?
... (more if you know)

Reason for asking, is that I see a lot of "full ride at ___ vs top ten school" threads, and the full ride school pretty much always wins. I'm curious how people rank the full scholarship schools between themselves (to eliminate the financial aspect).

I knew someone in this position in a previous cycle and I think the schools that offered them such were all near each other in the rankings. I believe they chose which offer to take based on other factor besides ranking such as the curricula, class size, and things of that nature.

 

[gujuDoc]

Wow, You really ARE a towel and a wet one at that..(joking)

Everything you said is comepletly subjective. You should speak only for yourself because when you try to speak for others it is clear that you are simply full of it.

1- Some people like Minnesota and Ohio over other places. Who are you to say they are least desireable places to live?

2 - Best hospital and nearly best school do combine in a pretty powerful way

3- Many people would argue that small class size is an incredible pro and not a con. It's personal preference entirely.

4- You do not know "a good portion of doctors in this country" so again you can not speak for them. You are pretending to be an expert on something you know little about. Go do a survey of "a good portion of doctors in this country" and get back to me with statistically significant results of how Mayo is unknown. There is a huge chance you will prove yourself wrong once again.

And I swear I am not cocky. Neither are any of the other mayo student/applicants that I have met.

I think the small class size is essentially one of the biggest things that draw a lot of people to a program like CCLCM, Mayo, and other small schools like Boca's campus for UMiami. Why?? People like having less drama and cliques and more personalized interaction with professors rather then a large class with too many students. Its just dependent on the student but I think most people who choose these smaller programs put the small class size up at the top of the list of deciding factors. That's been what I've seen from students I know who have gotten into smaller programs.

 

[45408]

What do you mean by that?

If you're a poor student, you can be strongly discouraged by the administration from applying to competitive residencies, and secondly, you can only match at a residency that interviewed you. So, maybe your top 20 choices didn't interview you, but your 21-23rd choices did, so those were your top three rankings, and you got into one of those. See how it's not really your top choice?

 

[45408]

The "You Don't Benefit From the Hospital, Anyway" Category-

This angry mob likes to point out that at top hospitals, you can't touch the elite patient population, and that medical school clinical training is useless anyway since you'll be learning everything in your first month of internship.

Well, I'm sure Mayo sees lots of zebras, and unless you want a really specialized field, it doesn't really matter. If you do want a specialized field, it's all good.

 

[gujuDoc]

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You crack me up!!

 

[Mr. Tee]

I didn't say it's in a great location.

k thx, see below. Maybe you'll see why I said that.

That's a silly comment. The city ranking was just that - cities. A county is not a city. If you included the whole surrounding county for most cities their crime statistics would be greatly reduced by affluent suburbs surrounding. We're talking about the cities themselves, not the counties. And yes, St Louis the city is terrible. Take it from someone who knows.

Even if it's a better area that is adjacent to a slummy area, crime spills over and often the nearby wealth becomes a target for criminals. When there are that many desparate people succombing to crimal activity, it is easy for them to walk or drive over to Wash U's campus to mug some student who in their mind is rich and doesn't need the money anyway. Many of the Wash U students I know have been affected by the spillover crime. As far as med schools go, I argue that Wash U is still a concern. Of course, I would argue that Hopkins is in a terribly dangerous place as well.

This was a deep concern of mine when I visited both schools. I asked many at WashU Med and they said spillover wasn't a problem, ie. there wasn't spillover. And the crime at the actual Hopkins Med campus is very low too (despite the location), and the people there weren't deeply concerned with it either.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Haha, Stolenspatulas, I have seen your posts a million times and they are always full of hot air. If the above is true, you must not know many doctors. And any doctor (if any) that you do know must be living in a closet or raised, educated, and working in the boonies. The medical school is known worldwide among doctors.

i have never heard any doctor praise the medical school. i have an uncle that works at mayo clinic as a surgeon... he has never praised the medical school. im sorry bud im not making this stuff up. the reputation for the hospital carries... not the school.

regardless, i bet its an awesome school. your clinical years will be surrounded with the best in practically every field. you cant beat that. and you may have some sort of leg up for a mayo residency. now THAT matters.

btw, don't be so defensive. i was stating a fact drawn from my own experience, hence, an opinion.

 

[pyrois]

But please, stop telling us how underrated your schools are. We don't care.

Correction. You don't care. People who are reading these threads and attempting to decide where to go, do care. Otherwise, why would they be here?

 

[pyrois]

i have an uncle that works at mayo clinic as a surgeon... he has never praised the medical school.

Have you asked him how their medical school is?

With 34 medical students, it's unlikely that the 2600 specialists at Mayo Clinic would have a chance to meet them. Running into a Mayo Clinic student is like finding a five-leaf clover.

Possible, but unlikely.

 

[pyrois]

Well, I'm sure Mayo sees lots of zebras, and unless you want a really specialized field, it doesn't really matter. If you do want a specialized field, it's all good.

Hopefully it's not to the point where Mayo students come out thinking necrotizing fasciitus is the first thing to check for in a patient with cellulitis

 

[xylem29]

Alot of good points!! Would just like to add some insight as a current student at Mayo

1) Board score average was a 238. This was the highest in the nation. Half the class scored in the top percentile. That being said... the board aren't everything.
2) It's true that some people in the non-medical community may not know Mayo has a medical school, but I've found that Mayo Clinic anything seems to lend instant credibility to it.
3) The few individuals who score low for mayo standards on the boards (which is still around the national average) seem to always stress that Mayo's name helped them get at least an interview at top institutions. The medical schools reputation amongst the medical community is amazing.
4) Yes, rochester is not like a college campus and is not an especially fun town... but our class is INCREDIBLE. At the end of the day I really think its the people and not the place. Faculty on the admissions committee have told us how incredibly rigorous the admissions process is for the doctors reviewing the applications! Our class is extremely diverse, fun, unique and from all walks of life. Even with this our class is really close! We have a ridiculous time going out, hanging out, doing whatever together. Admissions makes sure it ends up this way because our class is small.
5) No burn out.. no stress. We are one of the few schools that is TRUE pass/fail with NO AOA. Perfect collaborative learning environment.
6) Six weeks of class, followed by two weeks breaks through the first two years. Oh and they'll pay for you to travel anywhere to volunteer, work at clinics, do research during these two week breaks. There is not another school in the country that offers this sort of money so frequently to pursure incredible opportunities so easily.
7) Faculty to student ratio is easy to overlook. During anatomy lab we had two TA's, two extremely respected professors (one MD, one pHD), and then 3-4 "top of their field" specialists on the specific part of the body we were on from the clinic who would come in and go around and teach anatomy groups anything from the basics to clinical correlates. This is AMAZING! We pretty much had 1 teacher for every 5 students.
8) And to reaffirm the medical school's reputation.. I had a hard time choosing Mayo over other top 10 schools ONLY because of its location. The school far surpassed any other school I had interviewed at. I spoke to an ex-residency director at Duke, and a current one at Vandy who encouraged me to go to Mayo over a couple of top ten schools because of the amazing clinical training they said I would receive during rotations from leaders in their respective fields. What sealed the deal for me was when the Dukey said he would interview a student from Mayo anyday.
9) I know their have been tons of threads on this... but name does make a difference.
10) The doctors at the clinic go out of their way to PURSUE US for amazing research projects and shadowing because there ar so few med students (42) and so many doctors (1200).
11) Most important point: Mayo has a "patient first" mentality. Physicians here prioritize the needds of the patient first. Research is important but comes second, which is different from other top ten institutions. Its not that Mayo couldn't get a ton of NIH funding, its just that its not a priority. And the HUGE endowments the clinc receives from individuals all over the world who have loved the care they have received reduces the burden of needing to pursue NIH grants.
11) Alot of patients have gone out of their way to tell me how lucky I am to be a student here. There are quite a few patients that go out of the network coverage for insurance and fly from the east and west coast to be treated at Mayo. Again this is all anecdotal, but I've even had a few patients talk about their bad experiences at other top hospitals and their reasons for spending so much money to fly and stay in rochester just to get care at Mayo.
12) To the Hopkins post below... I interviewed there and it is an amazing instiution too. But Mayo's facilities really are a step above everything I've seen... and the students are no where near as cut throat (hopkins has the golden scalpel award for best cadaver dissector???)

Phew this turned into a long thing......... At the end of the day, the school is amazing, the city not so much. The other schools being discussed are also great! Just wanted to clarify any misconceptions out there.

Too bad they don't take internationals...

 

[Xibye]

Originally Posted by Xibye
I didn't say it's in a great location.

k thx, see below. Maybe you'll see why I said that.

For clarification, by "not a great location" I meant not Hawaii.

 

[pyrois]

If you're evaluating the schools based purely on education, it would have to be WashU... PERIOD.

The strange part about WashU is that they accept people with such high numbers, while Mayo accepts people with such low numbers (WashU Ave ~ 37 MCAT, Mayo Ave ~ 32 MCAT), and yet by the end of their education at each respective schools, Mayo has higher average USMLE scores?

So I'm not sure if, basing it purely on education, washu comes out on top.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Have you asked him how their medical school is?

With 34 medical students, it's unlikely that the 2600 specialists at Mayo Clinic would have a chance to meet them. Running into a Mayo Clinic student is like finding a five-leaf clover.

Possible, but unlikely.

I thought it was 40 students per class?

"Running into a Mayo Clinic student is like finding a five-leaf clover." - maybe thats why there isn't a reputation for the medical school. they churn out such small numbers of MDs that a reputation doesn't really exist.

 

[Xibye]

I thought it was 40 students per class?

"Running into a Mayo Clinic student is like finding a five-leaf clover." - maybe thats why there isn't a reputation for the medical school. they churn out such small numbers of MDs that a reputation doesn't really exist.

Forgetting the exact numbers now, but ~34 are MDs and ~6 are MD/PHDs...something like that, so it depends on how you want to add it up.

As for the reputation...just because YOU have never found a four-leaf clover doesn't mean they aren't known for being a lucky find among people everywhere.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

The strange part about WashU is that they accept people with such high numbers, while Mayo accepts people with such low numbers (WashU Ave ~ 37 MCAT, Mayo Ave ~ 32 MCAT), and yet by the end of their education at each respective schools, Mayo has higher average USMLE scores?

So I'm not sure if, basing it purely on education, washu comes out on top.

with such a small class (around 1/4 to 1/3 of ''typical" medical schools sizes) can you say with confidence that mayo consistently has amongst the highest usmle scores in the nation? im guessing there would be more variance just bc all it would take is a handful of students demolishing/screwing up the usmle to overly inflate or deflate the average.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Forgetting the exact numbers now, but ~34 are MDs and ~6 are MD/PHDs...something like that, so it depends on how you want to add it up.

As for the reputation...just because YOU have never found a four-leaf clover doesn't mean they aren't known for being a lucky find among people everywhere.

thats true. i havent. tell you what. ill ask around the department i work in tomorrow. when i began applying no one said definitely apply to mayo. i pretty much got recommendations to apply to many of the big names in the usnews top 20.

fyi, mostly everyone i work with says that they believe hopkins is hands-down the best medical school in the country. which is funny since nobody can truly compare medical schools since they only can earn their MD degree once. hah.

also, realize that reputation is a subjective thing. all that matters truly is residency director rankings. isnt that our goal? i dont give a poop in a bucket if joe schmo likes harvard. all i care is that my school name will help me get a stronger residency match. anyone know mayo's residency director score from usnews (btw, i know usnews has a somewhat flawed ranking system)

 

[Xibye]

with such a small class (around 1/4 to 1/3 of ''typical" medical schools sizes) can you say with confidence that mayo consistently has amongst the highest usmle scores in the nation? im guessing there would be more variance just bc all it would take is a handful of students demolishing/screwing up the usmle to overly inflate or deflate the average.

Yes, but Mayo students have not screwed up the USMLE for many years. They are super smart and the numbers show it. The key is to look at the median score which, although I forget the number, was frighteningly high.

 

[pyrois]

with such a small class (around 1/4 to 1/3 of ''typical" medical schools sizes) can you say with confidence that mayo consistently has amongst the highest usmle scores in the nation? im guessing there would be more variance just bc all it would take is a handful of students demolishing/screwing up the usmle to overly inflate or deflate the average.

Statistically speaking, what you're saying is very true, but it also works both ways. So if you have an average USMLE score of 238 at Mayo, for every student that scores a 200, there must be one who scores a 276.

However, due to the extremely small standard deviation in USMLE scores (national average is like 215 or something, and highest possible is only about 23 points above that), the odds of any student scoring as high as a 276 is extermely low. Hence, the chance a student would score a 200 is equivalently low.

Thus, I think I can safely say that if a school's average is 238, most of the students hover around that number (within 20 points).

*edit*

Oh, I see, you mean between years!

Well Mayo's averages over the past 6 years have consistently been in the 230's. Not consistently the highest, but certainly consistently high.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Yes, but Mayo students have not screwed up the USMLE for many years. They are super smart and the numbers show it. The key is to look at the median score which, although I forget the number, was frighteningly high.

i wish schools handed out distributions of their usmle scores. thats more important to look at than an average.

 

[pyrois]

anyone know mayo's residency director score from usnews

I think it's a 4.0, tied with 2 billion other schools, like UCSD, Northwestern, etc.

It's too bad US News couldn't get a higher return rate on residency director ratings. Right now, they get like 1 in 10 residency directors to respond, and for all we know it could simply be the vocal minority.

 

[pyrois]

i wish schools handed out distributions of their usmle scores. thats more important to look at than an average.

Or simply release the standard deviation. But I doubt many people score 300's on the USMLE. In fact I think nobody has... ever. So the standard deviation can't be that big if the average is above the national average.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

I think it's a 4.0, tied with 2 billion other schools, like UCSD, Northwestern, etc.

It's too bad US News couldn't get a higher return rate on residency director ratings. Right now, they get like 1 in 10 residency directors to respond, and for all we know it could simply be the vocal minority.

i thought it was like 1 in 5 respond? regardless that is pitiful as well.

 

[crimsonkid85]

Or simply release the standard deviation. But I doubt many people score 300's on the USMLE. In fact I think nobody has... ever. So the standard deviation can't be that big if the average is above the national average.

i thought the standard dev was ~24 with an average of ~216. if you think about it, that's reasonable. three std devs above the mean would be 288, and that's in the >99 percentile, if you assume a perfectly normal distribution.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Hey guys, I just want to make it clear that Im not saying Mayo is not an elite school. All I am saying is that the school does not have a widespread reputation of awesomeness and is on top of that, widely unknown for even existing.

That said, the school does not need a reputation to verify itself as an awesome program. There might not be enough ''traction'' to spread the reputation around the u.s. (i think someone earlier said many mayo graduates stay in minnesota for residency... 10 or so of the matriculants are in-staters to begin with... and the classes are so so so so small its not like they can ship 5 mayo graduates to hopkins every year).

i feel sort of insulted that xibeye implied my posts tend to be crap. im not sorry for being blunt about my opinions and stating what i've heard, even if its from a small selection of working in just a few hospitals or from the interview trail, etc. a while back last year i said that i heard columbia was full of students that were cut-throat beyond belief, pretty much gunners that couldnt make it into other top programs . this was all hearsay. someone on SDN told me to shut up. as of right now im begging for an acceptance letter from columbia. i loved my visit there and definitely liked the selection of students i met. i guess my point is that opinions should be voiced even if they dont agree with what everyone would like to hear.

 

[Dookter]

take those crankpants off!

I'm sorry for being snappy. It's really just a personal thing with me....I cannot stand misleading statistics. I think it started in my college stats class when I realized how misleading a lot of statistics really can be. Anytime a lecturer pulls out some B.S. statistics I want to scream.....

 

[gujuDoc]

Hey guys, I just want to make it clear that Im not saying Mayo is not an elite school. All I am saying is that the school does not have a widespread reputation of awesomeness and is on top of that, widely unknown for even existing.

That said, the school does not need a reputation to verify itself as an awesome program. There might not be enough ''traction'' to spread the reputation around the u.s. (i think someone earlier said many mayo graduates stay in minnesota for residency... 10 or so of the matriculants are in-staters to begin with... and the classes are so so so so small its not like they can ship 5 mayo graduates to hopkins every year).

i feel sort of insulted that xibeye implied my posts tend to be crap. im not sorry for being blunt about my opinions and stating what i've heard, even if its from a small selection of working in just a few hospitals or from the interview trail, etc. a while back last year i said that i heard columbia was full of students that were cut-throat beyond belief, pretty much gunners that couldnt make it into other top programs . this was all hearsay. someone on SDN told me to shut up. as of right now im begging for an acceptance letter from columbia. i loved my visit there and definitely liked the selection of students i met. i guess my point is that opinions should be voiced even if they dont agree with what everyone would like to hear.

hahaha yeah that is the essentials of a dicussion.

 

[Golfing_Doc]

UCSF or full-ride to UMichigan?

For arguments sake of course. Could someone turn down all that educational $ for a fine education versus one at an arguably better school?


oh and what was this about?
>>
Originally Posted by Hednej View Post
Mayo should be considered a top 10 school b/c it rejected me.
Plus, they have lots of private funding, money coming out of their ears. You wanna know why? Cuz they took my check and sent me a rejection EMAIL
>>

'Lower tiered' schools do plenty of rejecting too!

 

[crimsonkid85]

well ... ALL schools have to reject SOMEBODY...i don't see how that's an argument either way.

 

[Towelie]

The strange part about WashU is that they accept people with such high numbers, while Mayo accepts people with such low numbers (WashU Ave ~ 37 MCAT, Mayo Ave ~ 32 MCAT), and yet by the end of their education at each respective schools, Mayo has higher average USMLE scores?

So I'm not sure if, basing it purely on education, washu comes out on top.

The average USMLE at WashU is 235 for last year. That's not too bad.

 

[45408]

The average USMLE at WashU is 235 for last year. That's not too bad.

No, it's quite bad.

 

[CCLCMer]

I have all the respect in the world for Mayo and CCLCM. I think that they are both great schools. But I can't get over how cocky some of their students and applicants are. They all continuously echo the "we are the most underrated school" over and over and over again. These people need to face facts:

-Rochester and Cleveland are two of the least desirable places to live, if not THE two least desirable places to live, out of any medical school locations in North America.

-Best Hospital does not equate to best school.

-Some people want a class of more than 40 people.

-A good portion of doctors around the country have no clue that these medical schools exist. You can deny it all day, but it's true.

These facts do not negate that these are both great schools. But please, stop telling us how underrated your schools are. We don't care.

I am sure that I know a lot more CCLCM students and applicants than you do. So I feel safe in saying that what you are interpreting as "cockiness" is actually pride in our program. When there are only a few dozen of you, it's more like you're joining a family versus just matriculating into medical school. Cleveland Clinic isn't a typical academic medical center like a university. It's actually a gigantic group practice with a couple thousand docs, its own hospitals, insurance plan, etc. Everyone knows everyone. The faculty here are excited about the med school and really go out of their way to show it. It's just a really nice, caring kind of environment. I haven't ever been to Mayo, but I imagine their program is pretty similar for the same reasons.

I think it's fine that CCLCM and Mayo aren't the kinds of schools that appeal to you. There is no law saying that we all have to have the same taste in medical schools. Go to Hopkins or wherever else you want, do well, and be happy.