Best path forward...Need Advice

[greatchanges]

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[workaholic181]

Hey OP,

First thing I would say is take biochem somewhere before the MCAT. Some people teach themselves the content but it is such a huge part of the new exam that I really recommend a class to intro the material.

If I were you I would do a DIY post back and apply to SMP programs this time next year (for fall 2019 matriculation). 20 some credits of A plus a solid MCAT ought to get you into some SMPs (I've seen stats for acceptances at some DO SMP programs). You're gonna have to do more of that leg work though. Good luck OP!

 

[BombsAway]

Use the search function for low-GPA topics. Search for anything by @DrMidlife

That's all the advice you really need. Good luck.

 

[greatchanges]

Hey OP,

First thing I would say is take biochem somewhere before the MCAT. Some people teach themselves the content but it is such a huge part of the new exam that I really recommend a class to intro the material.

If I were you I would do a DIY post back and apply to SMP programs this time next year (for fall 2019 matriculation). 20 some credits of A plus a solid MCAT ought to get you into some SMPs (I've seen stats for acceptances at some DO SMP programs). You're gonna have to do more of that leg work though. Good luck OP!

Thank you for the feedback. Most certainly, I have to take biochem. However, it looks as though I have to retake chem 1 (C-) and general physiology (F) because those grades are automatic disqualifies to even some SMPs. With that in mind, would you take Chem I first then bio-chem?

Another challenge is financing. The struggle is real. Yesterday someone suggested to me I pursue a second bachelors degree. A second degree could be over kill, so perhaps a certificate offering program could help make me eligible for loans to focus on classes instead of work.
Are you aware of post bacc programs that are designed as GPA enhancers where the institution doesn’t require the retake of the general sciences and allows its students complete a curriculum of upper division bio/chem/physics courses? Matriculating into a program like that (assuming one exists) could be difficult with my sGPA but perhaps taking and performing well in Chem I, general Physiology, and biochem first should help getting into a program like that.

What are your thoughts?


“The richest person is not the one who has the most, but wants the least.”

 

[greatchanges]

Use the search function for low-GPA topics. Search for anything by @DrMidlife

That's all the advice you really need. Good luck.

I have seen @DrMidlife posts pop up on many threads I have searched so far! I have a slight case of paralysis by analysis at the moment. Trying to formulate a path forward that helps build the best application without relying on wishful thinking.

I’ll spend time today going through their post history to try and paint a picture of what their advice for me would look like.

Thank you for the feedback.


“The richest person is not the one who has the most, but wants the least.”

 

[DrMidlife]

Thank you for the feedback. Most certainly, I have to take biochem. However, it looks as though I have to retake chem 1 (C-) and general physiology (F) because those grades are automatic disqualifies to even some SMPs. With that in mind, would you take Chem I first then bio-chem?

How the SMP views you is secondary to how you will be viewed later by med school admissions. You have to care about both. If all this "research" about how to recover from a low GPA is tiring you out, take some vitamins and drink some coffee and dive in because it's not optional. Your competition is doing the work. You have to fight for a seat. So fight, or step aside.

It doesn't matter what SMP you can get into if you can't get into med school on the other side. There are boatloads of SMP grads who need more years of work before they can start med school, and/or they end up in the Carib or PA school anyway.

Focus on the med school prereqs, and focus on building your foundation before you take advanced classes. In other words, you should not (NOT) take biochem before you have excellent grades in Chem and OChem. In other words, if gen physio is not a med school prereq at that school, then it's not essential to retake that class - the material is covered in the real med school prereqs. If you take upper division physio after getting A's in bio, nobody will care how you did in "gen phys" other than the permanent stain of an F.

From what I see above, you should be repeating pretty much all of the prereqs. None of your work except for the occasional A or A- has prepared you for what lies ahead. SMPs and med school expect you to rapidly build on your foundation, under tremendous stress, and you don't get any time to relearn or review or reconfigure how you study.

I say a lot of condescending things about the cookie cutter 4.0 kiddoes whose parents did everything for them, but you can't argue with their preparation for med school. Getting A's in undergrad science is 90% of med school preparation. Being a good person who does good work and can write well and might just end up changing the world for the better is good nursing preparation. Medicine requires you to be a scholar.

Another challenge is financing. The struggle is real. Yesterday someone suggested to me I pursue a second bachelors degree. A second degree could be over kill, so perhaps a certificate offering program could help make me eligible for loans to focus on classes instead of work.

It's not about getting another degree, it's about getting access to multiple years of additional undergrad, and access to some financial aid, registration priority, and advising. Without being a degree-seeking student, you are cut off from these things. If you can find a cert program that gets you 2+ years of full time undergrad, great, otherwise, nobody cares about the cert.

Generally any sense you have that you can control the schedule and budget on a low GPA redemption path is not realistic. Consider getting an on-campus job to pay the bills while you take a 3/4 load, or similar. If I could do it again, I would have done phlebotomy training before starting prereqs, and worked that job on through.

Are you aware of post bacc programs that are designed as GPA enhancers where the institution doesn’t require the retake of the general sciences and allows its students complete a curriculum of upper division bio/chem/physics courses? Matriculating into a program like that (assuming one exists) could be difficult with my sGPA but perhaps taking and performing well in Chem I, general Physiology, and biochem first should help getting into a program like that.

Nope. Retake all the prereqs in which you got C or worse. Retake all the prereqs you haven't mastered. That's almost all the prereqs. That means 2nd bachelors or otherwise multiple years of full time undergrad.

tl;dr: you don't get a yardstick. you don't get a formula. you're not actually supposed to still be trying for med school after getting bad grades in undergrad. you're off the reservation. nobody (other than people like me, and I'm in residency and won't look at SDN again for months, and this is 1000x more time than I should be spending on SDN anyway, but take advantage of my addiction?) who understands med school admissions and medicine is going to invest the time to really understand your background and customize advice for you. your actual job is figuring out how to get A's, getting LOTS of them, and eating all the humble pie you can shove in your mouth for YEARS before you start the 7-11 years of training you're fighting to be allowed to start.

Best of luck to you.

 

[greatchanges]

How the SMP views you is secondary to how you will be viewed later by med school admissions. You have to care about both. If all this "research" about how to recover from a low GPA is tiring you out, take some vitamins and drink some coffee and dive in because it's not optional. Your competition is doing the work. You have to fight for a seat. So fight, or step aside.

It doesn't matter what SMP you can get into if you can't get into med school on the other side. There are boatloads of SMP grads who need more years of work before they can start med school, and/or they end up in the Carib or PA school anyway.

Focus on the med school prereqs, and focus on building your foundation before you take advanced classes. In other words, you should not (NOT) take biochem before you have excellent grades in Chem and OChem. In other words, if gen physio is not a med school prereq at that school, then it's not essential to retake that class - the material is covered in the real med school prereqs. If you take upper division physio after getting A's in bio, nobody will care how you did in "gen phys" other than the permanent stain of an F.

From what I see above, you should be repeating pretty much all of the prereqs. None of your work except for the occasional A or A- has prepared you for what lies ahead. SMPs and med school expect you to rapidly build on your foundation, under tremendous stress, and you don't get any time to relearn or review or reconfigure how you study.

I say a lot of condescending things about the cookie cutter 4.0 kiddoes whose parents did everything for them, but you can't argue with their preparation for med school. Getting A's in undergrad science is 90% of med school preparation. Being a good person who does good work and can write well and might just end up changing the world for the better is good nursing preparation. Medicine requires you to be a scholar.

It's not about getting another degree, it's about getting access to multiple years of additional undergrad, and access to some financial aid, registration priority, and advising. Without being a degree-seeking student, you are cut off from these things. If you can find a cert program that gets you 2+ years of full time undergrad, great, otherwise, nobody cares about the cert.

Generally any sense you have that you can control the schedule and budget on a low GPA redemption path is not realistic. Consider getting an on-campus job to pay the bills while you take a 3/4 load, or similar. If I could do it again, I would have done phlebotomy training before starting prereqs, and worked that job on through.


Nope. Retake all the prereqs in which you got C or worse. Retake all the prereqs you haven't mastered. That's almost all the prereqs. That means 2nd bachelors or otherwise multiple years of full time undergrad.

tl;dr: you don't get a yardstick. you don't get a formula. you're not actually supposed to still be trying for med school after getting bad grades in undergrad. you're off the reservation. nobody (other than people like me, and I'm in residency and won't look at SDN again for months, and this is 1000x more time than I should be spending on SDN anyway, but take advantage of my addiction?) who understands med school admissions and medicine is going to invest the time to really understand your background and customize advice for you. your actual job is figuring out how to get A's, getting LOTS of them, and eating all the humble pie you can shove in your mouth for YEARS before you start the 7-11 years of training you're fighting to be allowed to start.

Best of luck to you.

Thank you so much for the feedback and wisdom.

As I was reading through your posts today, i saw that you are a resident now. It really put in perspective that you actually care. So genuinely thank you and congratulations on all of your well earned accomplishments.

Follow up question:

In a previous post you said, “... Maybe take a warmup class at a community college, but otherwise community college work removes little of the tarnish from a poor prior undergrad showing...”

I currently work at a college (previous community college). I don’t get a tuition waiver unfortunately but the tuition is reasonable. The classes are often taught by the same prof. as the near by tier 1 research university. Since they offer many of the classes I will need to take, how do you think COM admissions would look at my application if I completed my course work at a college instead of a university?


“The richest person is not the one who has the most, but wants the least.”

 

[workaholic181]

Thank you for the feedback. Most certainly, I have to take biochem. However, it looks as though I have to retake chem 1 (C-) and general physiology (F) because those grades are automatic disqualifies to even some SMPs. With that in mind, would you take Chem I first then bio-chem?

Another challenge is financing. The struggle is real. Yesterday someone suggested to me I pursue a second bachelors degree. A second degree could be over kill, so perhaps a certificate offering program could help make me eligible for loans to focus on classes instead of work.
Are you aware of post bacc programs that are designed as GPA enhancers where the institution doesn’t require the retake of the general sciences and allows its students complete a curriculum of upper division bio/chem/physics courses? Matriculating into a program like that (assuming one exists) could be difficult with my sGPA but perhaps taking and performing well in Chem I, general Physiology, and biochem first should help getting into a program like that.

What are your thoughts?


“The richest person is not the one who has the most, but wants the least.”

Im not sure if those type of programs exist or not. In terms of course sequence, I don't think it will matter a heck of a lot when you retake gen chem 1 in relation to biochem.

This is an expensive process, it's just the reality unfortunately. Having done a mini DIY post back and now going through the app cycle, I can tell you its gonna be taxing. Worth it, but taxing none the less.

 

[DBC03]

I think most of the above is fairly spot-on. I understand the difficulty of raising a cGPA with so many credits under your belt. I’m not sure about what is considered the best way to prove yourself, but a DIY-postbac is probably the best way to get started. I agree with the above that in your case it may be best to redo all prerequisites. I was in a fairly similar situation, GPA-wise, but I had taken few, if any, prerequisites. So I had a bit of an “easier” time raising my sGPA (while the cGPA barely budged). My initial pre-med advisor this past year has since moved on to be the dean of admission at a very prestigious med school, and she was fairly adamant that I go to the best university I could get into for my postbac. I was very limited geographically, and the best I could do was a four year university a few hours away, where I could live with family. It was a difficult year, but I made it work. It was also somewhat expensive. I did find, however, that there was little, if any, difference in cost between the four-year university and the community college. There was a slight research fee added in, but otherwise the cost per credit hour was the same. I would recommend taking a slightly lighter course load and working as much as possible to make this plan doable (rather than taking out a ton of loans to go as fast as possible). Find a job that might work with your schedule (if possible). I just started tutoring this year, and it’s the best job for my schedule at this point. I set my own hours and have worked it around my class schedule. I’m unfamiliar with the SMP options available- if someone thinks that might be a good idea, then I’d go with what others believe. It’s unfortunate that it has to be so dang expensive. But that was one of the things that held me back the most! You could try a DIY-postbac and do Bio 1 & 2, Chem 1 & 2, Physics 1 & 2, Orgo 1 & 2, and Biochem (as well as psych and sociology if you have time). I think you could do that over 2 to 3 years. I’ll see if I can think of other ideas and let you know!



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