best perio-prosthodontics programs

[bill1]

Could anyone share some information about the best perio-prosthodontics programs?

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[PerioDont]

I've heard Upenn has a perio-prosth program. I'm just not sure that the dual training is worth the extremely high cost.

122*5 = 610k on top of dental school. Five years total

 

[Contach]

I think a prosth program that does a good amount of surgery probably prepares you the best for the job market and the needs of our profession.

I do think this tuition is absurd and so glad I chose to do an OMS residency and not a residency where you primarily pay (ortho, perio).

What type of income does a periodontist think they'll be making to comfortably pay this back?

 

[PerioDont]

I think a prosth program that does a good amount of surgery probably prepares you the best for the job market and the needs of our profession.

I do think this tuition is absurd and so glad I chose to do an OMS residency and not a residency where you primarily pay (ortho, perio).

What type of income does a periodontist think they'll be making to comfortably pay this back?

Agreed.

The only person I have heard of that has done a perio-prosth program is Dr.John Kois of the well known Kois Center (but he finished 20+ years ago)

Director John C. Kois, D.M.D., M.S.D. | Kois Center

Dr. John Kois, director of the Kois Center, wants to “enable motivated dentists to achieve extraordinary levels, expanding knowledge and application skills in restorative dentistry.”

www.koiscenter.com

So a truly exceptional person may be able to make the most of this program, but I imagine such a person would have been successful even without paying the 600k for the program and had practiced as a general dentist.

 

[schmoob]

I know a Perio-Prosth guy and he is GOOD. His wife is a dentist too, so after her GPR she supported the family while he finished residency. Nicest guy you’ll ever meet.

 

[PerioDont]

I know a Perio-Prosth guy and he is GOOD. His wife is a dentist too, so after her GPR she supported the family while he finished residency. Nicest guy you’ll ever meet.

I'd imagine anyone who goes through a 5 year dual specialty residency will come out as a master.

Still would have lots of trouble paying 600k for it.

 

[dentistrydmd]

The UPenn program is called periodontal prosthesis because it is four years and only gives you a periodontics certificate (and you are only eligible for perio board certification). The only true combined perio-prosth program in the country is a five year program at San Antonio.

In terms of prosthodontics programs that have strong surgical experiences these include: UConn, University of Rochester, University of Illinois at Chicago, University of Maryland, University of Minnesota, UNC, and University of Alabama. These are the most reputable programs in terms of surgical exposure, though there may be others out there. Keep in mind, as of 6 years ago every prosthodontics program is required to teach their residents implant surgery at competency (meaning at the same level at periodontics programs), so programs in general have been shifting to offer more training in this area.

 

[dentistrydmd]

What does at the same level as periodontics programs mean? And where does OMS stand in this level? Just curious.

A graduate must be competent in implant placement according to the standards set by CODA. This is the same standard required of periodontics programs. If you do some research you'll realize that some prosthodontics programs place more implants on average than most periodontics programs and do a considerable amount of surgery including sinus lifts, bone grafts etc. OMS were the first to place implants, so not sure this question would apply to them. Nowadays, most implants out there are placed by GP dentists.

 

[BellaNella]

I am a resident in a CODA accredited Pros program that is not surgically heavy. We just had our CODA accreditation last academic year (Fall 2019). Competency in implant placement does not mean it is at the same level as periodontics programs and "competency" is defined by each Pros program. Because our pros program is a classical pros program that is heavy in restorative rather than surgical treatment, many of our residents place <10 implants in their time here. These are placed in well healed ridges without the need for augmentation or site preparation.

I have also heard that there are some prosthodontic programs that place more implants than the perio programs at the same university but certainly not all of them.

Our pros program has a very healthy collaborative relationship with both Perio and OMS. We do a lot of complex multidisciplinary treatment that is strengthened by our relationship with a surgical specialty. We also have a Perio-Pros program that is 5 years that makes you dual board eligible.

 

[dentistrydmd]

I am a resident in a CODA accredited Pros program that is not surgically heavy. We just had our CODA accreditation last academic year (Fall 2019). Competency in implant placement does not mean it is at the same level as periodontics programs and "competency" is defined by each Pros program. Because our pros program is a classical pros program that is heavy in restorative rather than surgical treatment, many of our residents place <10 implants in their time here. These are placed in well healed ridges without the need for augmentation or site preparation.

I have also heard that there are some prosthodontic programs that place more implants than the perio programs at the same university but certainly not all of them.

Our pros program has a very healthy collaborative relationship with both Perio and OMS. We do a lot of complex multidisciplinary treatment that is strengthened by our relationship with a surgical specialty. We also have a Perio-Pros program that is 5 years that makes you dual board eligible.

From speaking to some of the prosthodontists who were involved with the institution of the CODA requirement, the competency requirement is meant to be that. I do agree that there are some more traditional prosth programs out there that have more recently added implant training due to the requirement, but it is likely migrating towards the direction where all programs will have significant implant training. I think the situation you're describing is more a function of traditional prosth programs trying to incorporate implant training because they must.

 

[BellaNella]

From speaking to some of the prosthodontists who were involved with the institution of the CODA requirement, the competency requirement is meant to be that. I do agree that there are some more traditional prosth programs out there that have more recently added implant training due to the requirement, but it is likely migrating towards the direction where all programs will have significant implant training. I think the situation you're describing is more a function of traditional prosth programs trying to incorporate implant training because they must.

I understand.

It is definitely a traditional program incorporating surgery because they are required to. Pros on its own is a lot to learn without trying to master surgery. Unfortunately, a lot of programs are now getting watered down as far as Pros education and beefing up surgery. Everybody has their own opinion in the pros community when it comes to that. Shrug.

I do think Perio-Pros is a really nice program. I highly recommend for people to look into it. More than just giving you the opportunity to do surgery in a pros program, it gives you the knowledge of the literature and understanding of why we do things rather than just learn how to do them. I also don't feel like the Pros education gets watered down because of the program length.

 

[dentistrydmd]

I understand where you're coming from, especially if you are doing a lot of analog treatments in your program, but I do not think it is necessarily being watered down. Implant dentistry is one of the reasons that the programs are three years and not two years. Treatment planning is also the key to the longevity of implants, which prosthodontists are in the best position to understand. Many programs have also shifted from teaching some of the lab work that is not as relevant today such as PFM/porcelain baking, and cast RPD framework fabrication to more CAD/CAM based approaches and focuses on areas prosthodontists deal with on a daily basis in private practice. I doubt you'd see many modern prosthodontics graduates doing that sort of work in-house, which may have differed in the past.

 

[Roy Williams]

The program director of the prosth department at UNC is dual perio/prosth trained and the program is very surgical heavy. There's talk in the near future to creating a dual specialty 5 year track. But right now it's not. However they do a ton of implants and have good surgical experience.