Best prelim year? Easiest way to apply?

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rocketbooster

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What do you recommend for your prelim year? My PD says transitional year is a waste and you don't learn anything. It seems to be the favorite among students though. Considering gen surg interns do mostly grunt work and less OR time, I don't see that being any better. Seems like IM is the only one worthwhile?

Also, what's the the easiest way to apply so you don't have to do a trillion interviews? Id just like to do it at the same school as ophtho.
 
I'd have to disrespectfully disagree with your program director.

There are two purposes to intern year. The first is learning how to actually manage patients in real time, not just how to talk bout them like you do as a medical student. The second is to learning to be really efficient about your work. There's a quantum leap between knowing the details about 2-5 patients and 10-15. There will be some growing pains at first no matter what program you're in.

You're not going to be managing CHF exacerbations, NSTEMIs and GI bleeds for the rest of your career. Even a cushy TY program will give you adequate exposure to these clinical problems. To be a doctor, you need to be familiar with the concepts, but the details will slip away faster than you realize in your specialty training.

TYs generally give you more elective time to explore other fields. While you have fewer of them, that doesn't mean that each floor or ICU block will necessarily be easier or that you'll have fewer patients or check boxes to take care of. After the first few real blocks, you'll figure out your system and tackle the challenge of being an efficient intern. Doing this over an over again for the next 9-10 months will just tire you out, and you need to be fresh and ready to start your first ophtho year.
 
I'd have to disrespectfully disagree with your program director.

There are two purposes to intern year. The first is learning how to actually manage patients in real time, not just how to talk bout them like you do as a medical student. The second is to learning to be really efficient about your work. There's a quantum leap between knowing the details about 2-5 patients and 10-15. There will be some growing pains at first no matter what program you're in.

You're not going to be managing CHF exacerbations, NSTEMIs and GI bleeds for the rest of your career. Even a cushy TY program will give you adequate exposure to these clinical problems. To be a doctor, you need to be familiar with the concepts, but the details will slip away faster than you realize in your specialty training.

TYs generally give you more elective time to explore other fields. While you have fewer of them, that doesn't mean that each floor or ICU block will necessarily be easier or that you'll have fewer patients or check boxes to take care of. After the first few real blocks, you'll figure out your system and tackle the challenge of being an efficient intern. Doing this over an over again for the next 9-10 months will just tire you out, and you need to be fresh and ready to start your first ophtho year.

1) Do you think a TY gives you too superficial of an exposure to several fields (so superficial that you won't really retain much after the year is over), as opposed to a prelim year, which will probably give you a darn good grasp of IM?

2) I've heard that people in TYs are treated like MS4s because they're noobs to every new rotation and everyone knows they're just doing it for craps and giggles, whereas in a prelim year you're treated just like every other IM intern, thus giving you more responsibility and a better learning experience. Is this true?
 
1) Do you think a TY gives you too superficial of an exposure to several fields (so superficial that you won't really retain much after the year is over), as opposed to a prelim year, which will probably give you a darn good grasp of IM?

2) I've heard that people in TYs are treated like MS4s because they're noobs to every new rotation and everyone knows they're just doing it for craps and giggles, whereas in a prelim year you're treated just like every other IM intern, thus giving you more responsibility and a better learning experience. Is this true?

It's variable. I interviewed at a few of the cush-est TYs this year and am friends with a couple of TY residents. They say that on many rotations it feels like fourth year again. But they're going into derm or ophtho so they're okay with the experience because the days are short.

I'm going to do the prelim IM med year where I matched instead though. I want to feel comfortable enough that I can do some moonlighting if I want and I feel like the IM year will be good for that comfort level. Talking to residents after their TY year they mostly tell me that it was a nice, easy year and they mainly are doing it to pass the time until PGY2 in their specialty but that they do feel it has helped them mature as a doctor. However their decision-making comfort level is quite a bit lower than those who do IM prelims, and the TYs on average end up doing fewer procedures intern year. Programs do of course vary, but these are the overall impressions that I have after speaking with quite a few prelim IM and TY residents.

Overall once Ophtho starts you need to have a good knowledge base in IM, but the fine points beyond the nuts-and-bolts will almost surely fade as you move into Ophthalmology. Either TY or IM year should be fine, but the learning experiences are quite different.
 
I did a medicine prelim year, but most of my co-residents and friends in subspecialties within medicine did TYs. My disclaimer is that I don't know too many people who moved twice and went out of their way to do the absolute easiest year that they could. Maybe at some of these you're treated like a MSIV - I'm not sure....

From what I've gotten from my colleagues. I did work harder than almost all of them. Overall, the TY does tend to be more relaxed, but a lot of this is because you have more elective time to explore other specialties. On any TY, however, you will have a certain number of core floor blocks and ICU rotations where you are expected to function just like any other intern. In fact, at programs where there are both TYs and categorical medicine interns, I've heard that the TYs sometimes get the less desirable rotations and schedules because programs want to keep up the morale of their 3 year residents. Up until this point you've been a learner paying for your education. As an intern you're getting paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $50k. This averages out to $8-10K per difficult inpatient rotation on the average "cush" TY. You're expected to do a level of work comensurate with this and you have a significant level of responsibility for a lot of patients. When you're called in the middle of the night with a crashing patient, nobody cares that you're a TY. Your senior may be nowhere in sight, or more likely is taking care of another crashing patient. If you go into most - admittedly perhaps not all - TY programs with the mentality that you can act as a 4th year medical student, you will be in for a very, very rude awakening. As I mentioned earlier, most people will get the hang of managing the vast majority of common inpatient clinical problems within the first two or three months. After that, additional floor time may start to feel painful if your intention is to do an outpatient specialty. As for procedures, there are plenty of central lines to go around at most programs. Sure, you're unlikely to ever do another one in your life, but it's fun and rewarding to get these skills as well as a number of others. After you've done a thoracentesis or two (or some of the other less common procedures), it's nice to give these to your categorical colleagues no matter whether you're prelim IM or TY since they will need these for hospital certification and you won't.

Finally, I'd think long and hard about moonlighting in IM/ED during ophtho residency. For starters, your contract forbids this at many places. But much more importantly than that, 3 years is really not that much time to learn as much ophthalmology as you can and become a competent clinican and surgeon. Even at the "cusher" ophtho programs, you should be reading as much as you can outside of clinic hours, trying to get in on extra cases, suturing canalicular lacs, etc.
 
I am currently in a TY where I have to do 5 months of inpatient (including a month of ICU), a month of Family med, a month of ER and 5 months of electives. I have done far more procedures during my TY year than interns were doing where I went to med school for a very simple reason - no competition. Prelims are largely at academic centers and TYs at community hospitals. During my anesthesia rotation, I wasn't competing with anesthesia residents, CRNAs, masters of anesthesia students etc to do intubations, place lines. I spent some time in the Ophtho ORs and even got to do 2 retrobulbar injections. There were plenty of lines to place and codes to run on my ICU rotation. My inpatient months have been rigorous but after a month or so you realize the majority of your admits, anywhere you go for a prelim/TY, are CHF, COPD/asthma, chest pain, pneumonia, altered mental status, ESLD etc. I can't say whether you will have a better/worse experience at a prelim, but you will definitely have less control over what you do during your electives. If you are that torn, go to a TY with the thought of doing electives in GI, cardiology, pulm, nephrology, ID, effectively making it a prelim year... After a month or two of inpatient medicine reminds you of why you chose ophthalmology, switch some of those electives to Ophtho relevant fields and those that would afford you some time to read for your PGY2 year.
 
I would definitely want to do a TY year! Do you know how we can get the list of all TY programs offered? They seem to be rather rare.
 
Oh thanks I didn't know TY info is on FREIDA!
 
One should probably be aware most transitional years do not offer 5-6 months of elective. In fact, transitional years are often more difficult than prelim medicine years depending upon the program. You are really shorting yourself by simply filtering for transitional years only.
 
Aren't you potentially limiting yourself if you do a transitional year? Even though one matches into ophtho, aren't you able to still practice general medicine after graduating from first year in IM? However, a transitional year is not really a prelim, which would potentially exclude one from practicing or pursuing internal medicine me if I am wrong.
 
We're getting a bit far off the mark for an ophtho forum.

If you're interested in ophtho and have questions about internship feel free to PM me. I devoted a lot of thought to my residency, and internship wound up being something of an afterthought. It's a year of your life, though, and quality of life is important. It can be a very difficult year if you're not happy or prepared. I'd suggest devoting a fair amount of time to talking with people who had actually been through the process and who were in the programs that you're considering.
 
Can someone move this thread to the internship forum. They have addressed most of these questions already.
 
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