Best Saves Thread

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I hate to be a stickler but since we’re talking about it, some of the physiology posted above is not correct. The shock is not due to outflow tract obstruction, it is due to decreased diastolic filling of the LV due to the RV pushing the septum over and due to reduced RV output itself.

And the acutely dilated RV being preload dependent is a long standing myth which has been inaccurately applied from studies of RV infarction of dogs. While small boluses of fluid can help, the acutely dilated RV is actually preload intolerant and too much fluid pushes the septum over further causing even more reduced filling.

So, this is PRECISELY the "good stuff" that we need more of on the forum; deep pathophys dives.

If you wanna start a new thread for this and really break it down (you seem like you would do a great job of making it a good read), that would be awesome. I strongly encourage you to give a mini pathophys lecture on this.

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So, this is PRECISELY the "good stuff" that we need more of on the forum; deep pathophys dives.

If you wanna start a new thread for this and really break it down (you seem like you would do a great job of making it a good read), that would be awesome. I strongly encourage you to give a mini pathophys lecture on this.
Happy to contribute to a pathophys thread.
 
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Dirty double: non-sterile femoral arterial lines and central lines, typically placed in peri-arrest or arrest conditions

Rocket fuel: epinephrine gtt; bonus points if you have someone make it at the bedside by adding 4 mg of epinephrine to 250 cc bag of NS
I call it a dirty double even if placed sterile since most hospitals complain about fem lines.

Sometimes I’ll use the catheter from the catheter over needle in the central line kit for the fem line. One box, one drape, two lines.
 
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since most hospitals complain about fem lines
Agree that this is the norm. Not sure it's evidence-based:The risk of catheter-related bloodstream infection with femoral venous catheters as compared to subclavian and internal jugular venous catheters: a systematic review of the literature and meta-analysis - PubMed

Most hospitals now have much better/more standardized training on sterile line placement, I suspect that matters more than which vessel you cannulate.
 
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My practice is to go for the neck when the going is good, use the groin to save a life when the going ain't good.
 
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My practice is to go for the neck when the going is good, use the groin to save a life when the going ain't good.

I typically go to the neck as well. I really want to put in more subclavian lines though....largely because I don't have to fiddle with US (although can use US to guide the needle into the subclavian vein.
 
I can barely remember the last time I put in an IJ, and it’s been years since a subclavian.

Peripheral pressors have almost eliminated the need to put a central line in a stable, critically ill patient prior to ICU admission.

Almost always do the femoral dirty double in coding (if ROSC achieved, otherwise just femoral arterial line) or crashing patients (still do sterile, just more fun to say dirty).

Agree that femoral sterility concerns in the past were overblown.

I’ll have to try out the two lines from one kit trick. Haven’t done that before.
 
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You guys swimming in adipose putting in these fem lines?

Gimme the neck. Close your legs.
 
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You guys swimming in adipose putting in these fem lines?

Gimme the neck. Close your legs.
Many with fat in the groin have fat in the neck. I rarely find the groin a challenge. If it is excessive or infected, then sure go for the neck if a better site. Just can’t do a two in one.

Go higher. At or even above inguinal crease where the fat depth is less. Many go too low. Our vascular guys during my training years ago always complained that many were too low and they couldn’t change them out for ECMO catheters. Not a concern for me now though since we don’t do ECMO at my site.

Lots of tape and possibly a pannus holder are key.
 
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Many with fat in the groin have fat in the neck. I rarely find the groin a challenge. If it is excessive or infected, then sure go for the neck if a better site. Just can’t do a two in one.

Go higher. At or even above inguinal crease where the fat depth is less. Many go too low. Our vascular guys during my training years ago always complained that many were too low and they couldn’t change them out for ECMO catheters. Not a concern for me now though since we don’t do ECMO at my site.

Lots of tape and possibly a pannus holder are key.

I must work in turbofatland.
 
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I must work in turbofatland.

giphy.gif
 
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Average South Florida resident in this county.
No that’s my average resident , you gotta add about 35 years to that.

I’m not a fan of femoral lines either. Luckily I also really don’t attract dead people so it all works out. I’ve been out for a decade, I clearly get 1/3 as many codes as most of my colleagues 😝
 
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Healthy 40 yr old Pt with significant emotional distress. Travelling to the middle east in a few hours and could not get a Covid PCR anywhere. Got pt in and out, saved their travel plans with a quick Covid PCR. The satisfaction of this job is immeasurable.
 
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Healthy 40 yr old Pt with significant emotional distress. Travelling to the middle east in a few hours and could not get a Covid PCR anywhere. Got pt in and out, saved their travel plans with a quick Covid PCR. The satisfaction of this job is immeasurable.

at least until they get the bill for their “covid test” plus ED visit…
 
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Would you have put the IJ in deep in retrospect? The idea of jamming a line into a stressed RV makes my sphincter tight. Usually leave those deliberately high. Huge save regardless!
 
at least until they get the bill for their “covid test” plus ED visit…
A quick femoral line can be a lifesaver at times. My go to is always IJ, but if it’s a crash line, uncooperative pt, etc. can’t discount the femoral line as it’s faster, and less risky of hitting something major
 
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Would you have put the IJ in deep in retrospect? The idea of jamming a line into a stressed RV makes my sphincter tight. Usually leave those deliberately high. Huge save regardless!

So I was a little worried about poking the heart and decided to place the line carefully under direct ultrasound guidance.

I will say though however that many of my european intensivist friends routinely place lines into the heart without any problems.
Apparently the case reports were all from older versions of lines that were much stiffer and required a lot of force to insert correctly.
 
Just remember, when they sink the EKOS TPA catheters, they’re both larger than a triple lumen and flow through the RV to sit in the pulmonary artery.
 
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So I was a little worried about poking the heart and decided to place the line carefully under direct ultrasound guidance.

I will say though however that many of my european intensivist friends routinely place lines into the heart without any problems.
Apparently the case reports were all from older versions of lines that were much stiffer and required a lot of force to insert correctly.
Yup, once the wire is out, a bit of plastic is not gonna cause arrhythmias.
 
Just remember, when they sink the EKOS TPA catheters, they’re both larger than a triple lumen and flow through the RV to sit in the pulmonary artery.

Yup, once the wire is out, a bit of plastic is not gonna cause arrhythmias.

I was wondering what the huff was about.
Drop a damn IJ line, p*ssies.
 
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Never heard of anyone being concerned about IJs in RH strain scenarios. The only time I worry is sick/crashing dialysis or hyperkalemic or other electrolyte derangement patients. Have had a couple vtach episodes after the wires smacks the walls of the RH.
 
OK. This happened yesterday.

"WE NEED A DOC IN 20."
I'm around the corner and pop in. I see a pale 50ish yo woman minimally responsive in VT with a rate 210 on the monitor. Nurses just transferred her from the EMS gurney onto ours. She looked like a ghost.

"We need to zap her now. Get the zoll."

Pt ain't talking, just mumbling. I don't even really bother with an exam. I direct nurse A to put on some O2, nurse B to establish IV access. Nurse C is getting a zoll down the hallway. 2 minutes and 200J synchronized juice later, I get her into some sort of funky, non VT rhythm on the monitor. Pt wakes up a little and is pissed because she's in pain from the shock. One minute later back into VT again, it now appears polymorphic. More juice. I ask for Mg 2g and amiodarone 300 mg. She gets out of it, and then pops back into VT and I juice her again.

After three or four shocks she is stablish and yelling "dont do that again! That hurts!" She's ripping off the O2 and not being particularly cooperative. "Let's tube her" I quip. EKG looks like this. Not actionable in my mind at this second. At this point there are 10 RN's, techs, and RT in a tiny room. Things are actually going OK though...and I talk to her and she's becomes cooperative. She's a diabetic and appears to have psych disease based on her speech patterns. I actually call off intubating and.....

...back into VT.

200J synchronized again. For the next 40 minutes, she passes through every rhythm. VT, VFib, PEA, back to VF, and was ultimately in VF for like 25 minutes. We even dual sequential defibbed her several times. Nurses be like "THIS IS COOL" By the end of the resus...she received amio 300 and 150, epi x3, sodium bicarb x3, calcium x1, lidocaine 100 x2, lopressor 5 x2, and IVF x2. Tubed too. Cards was at bedside and very helpful, although ultimately we both didn't know what was going on. Bedside echo showed no pericardial effusion, more or less mild hypokinesis, and a normal RV. I slam in a semi-sterile right femoral TLC and start her on 20 levo. All her blood work came back and it's basically normal. At this point I've decided to make her DNR. If she codes again we can't keep on doing CPR. Especially after about 50 minutes of it in the ED. Nurses start to slowly slip out of the room. Everything calms down. To the remaining ones in the room I remark on their good work and say "if she walks out of this hospital, I'm buying french fries and beer for you guys". 5 minutes later....

"DOC we need you in 2". I forgot about this pt I saw 1.5 hours ago her during the resus above. She's an old, moribund, debilitated, bedbound, obese uroseptic F with pus in her bladder. She looks just like a @RustedFox special he sees every day. Pt's on peripheral levo @ 20 with a BP of 100/40. I put a L IJ in her and give more fluid and more drugs. Easy admit to the ICU.

1 hour goes by. I scan bed 20. CTH normal, CT PE neg, CT A/P neg. We only gave her 1 broken rib. Good for us. Second EKG is again blah. Called ICU and they will start cooling upstairs.

"DOC, we need some sedation for Bed 20."

"WUT? What do you mean?"

"She's mouthing words and following commands!" I believed the nurse but I didn't. She's been quasi critical stable for the past 1.5 hours. I go into the room and talk to a tubed patient and she's nodding, blinking and squeezing my hand once for no, twice for yes. UNBELIEVABLE


I suspect I'll be out several hundreds of dollars sometime later this month.
 
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OK. This happened yesterday.

"WE NEED A DOC IN 20."
I'm around the corner and pop in. I see a pale 50ish yo woman minimally responsive in VT with a rate 210 on the monitor. Nurses just transferred her from the EMS gurney onto ours. She looked like a ghost.

"We need to zap her now. Get the zoll."

Pt ain't talking, just mumbling. I don't even really bother with an exam. I direct nurse A to put on some O2, nurse B to establish IV access. Nurse C is getting a zoll down the hallway. 2 minutes and 200J synchronized juice later, I get her into some sort of funky, non VT rhythm on the monitor. Pt wakes up a little and is pissed because she's in pain from the shock. One minute later back into VT again, it now appears polymorphic. More juice. I ask for Mg 2g and amiodarone 300 mg. She gets out of it, and then pops back into VT and I juice her again.

After three or four shocks she is stablish and yelling "dont do that again! That hurts!" She's ripping off the O2 and not being particularly cooperative. "Let's tube her" I quip. EKG looks like this. Not actionable in my mind at this second. At this point there are 10 RN's, techs, and RT in a tiny room. Things are actually going OK though...and I talk to her and she's cooperative. She's a diabetic and appears to have psych disease based on her speech patterns. I actually call off intubating and.....

...back into VT.

200J synchronized again. For the next 40 minutes, she passes through every rhythm. VT, VFib, PEA, back to VF, and was ultimately in VF for like 25 minutes. We even dual sequential defibbed her several times. Nurses be like "THIS IS COOL" By the end of the resus...she received amio 300 and 150, epi x3, sodium bicarb x3, calcium x1, lidocaine 100 x2, lopressor 5 x2, and IVF x2. Tubed too. Cards was at bedside and very helpful, although ultimately we both didn't know what was going on. Bedside echo showed no pericardial effusion, more or less mild hypokinesis, and a normal RV. I slam in a semi-sterile right femoral TLC and start her on 20 levo. All her blood work came back and it's basically normal. At this point I've decided to make her DNR. If she codes again we can't keep on doing CPR. Especially after about 50 minutes of it in the ED. Nurses start to slowly slip out of the room. Everything calms down. To the remaining ones in the room I remark on their good work and say "if she walks out of this hospital, I'm buying french fries and beer for you guys". 5 minutes later....

"DOC we need you in 2". I forgot about this pt I saw 1.5 hours ago her during the resus above. She's an old, moribund, debilitated, bedbound, obese uroseptic F with pus in her bladder. She looks just like a @RustedFox special he sees every day. Pt's on peripheral levo @ 20 with a BP of 100/40. I put a L IJ in her and give more fluid and more drugs. Easy admit to the ICU.

1 hour goes by. I scan bed 20. CTH normal, CT PE neg, CT A/P neg. We only gave her 1 broken rib. Good for us. Second EKG is again blah. Called ICU and they will start cooling upstairs.

"DOC, we need some sedation for Bed 20."

"WUT? What do you mean?"

"She's mouthing words and following commands!" I believed the nurse but I didn't. She's been quasi critical stable for the past 1.5 hours. I go into the room and talk to a tubed patient and she's nodding, blinking and squeezing my hand once for no, twice for yes. UNBELIEVABLE


I suspect I'll be out several hundreds of dollars sometime later this month.
Awesome save. Care coordinator probably recommended obs status. LOL Seriously, great job!
 
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