Best school for Ortho?

[DangQ3]

Hey everyone,

I'm thinking about Ortho and what school will put me in the best position. I know ortho is tough wherever you come from, but still. I'm looking at Western, which has a core site at the only Osteopathic hospital in California that offers 3 ortho residency spots a year. I think having it as a core site is advantageous, but only 3 spots in all of California? There are a few ACGME ortho spots, but there's so many med schools around here. Which school(s) has more core-site ortho programs?

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[DrMidlife]

Here's the database: http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/index.htm

 

[Buckeye4life]

I don't think you should be concerning yourself with what school will get you where. Any school will give you an opportunity to match into ortho if you work hard and network. LECOM-erie has an ortho program in their OPTI, but after talking to a few of their current ortho residents, going to LECOM does not give you much preference from other schools. I think there is actually only one LECOM grad in their current program. You should just focus on where you think you'll do the best for the first two years academically, find a few ortho programs you want to do electives at third/fourth years, and go from there. It's all about networking and making good impressions. No one is going to want to take and work with you for five years if they can't stand you no matter what school you're from or what your scores are, but they also may be willing to overlook a few flaws in your resume if they do. Good luck, but just go where you think you'll excell the most at this stage.

 

[MaximusD]

Yeah all schools give you the opport....HA HA i'm sorry that's rich...

PCOM all the way

booyeah

 

[TexasTriathlete]

GA-PCOM has never graduated a student that didn't go into ortho.

 

[Saregamapadanis]

man, I wish I knew about SDN sooner. I didn't know GA-PCOM and CCOM, MSUCOM were really good DO schools. I could have applied to those as well. Not that i am regretting anything, I was very impressed with the schools i had applied.

 

[DangQ3]

I know what you're saying. But if a school has a core site that has ortho residency spots, you'd get exposed to it earlier and get to possibly spend more time there. If not, then a school with more elective time in 3rd year will also allow you earlier exposure to other residency programs. The more I think about it, the more attractive PCOM looks. Still waiting for an interview from them though.

I don't think you should be concerning yourself with what school will get you where. Any school will give you an opportunity to match into ortho if you work hard and network. LECOM-erie has an ortho program in their OPTI, but after talking to a few of their current ortho residents, going to LECOM does not give you much preference from other schools. I think there is actually only one LECOM grad in their current program. You should just focus on where you think you'll do the best for the first two years academically, find a few ortho programs you want to do electives at third/fourth years, and go from there. It's all about networking and making good impressions. No one is going to want to take and work with you for five years if they can't stand you no matter what school you're from or what your scores are, but they also may be willing to overlook a few flaws in your resume if they do. Good luck, but just go where you think you'll excell the most at this stage.

 

[Buckeye4life]

I know what you're saying. But if a school has a core site that has ortho residency spots, you'd get exposed to it earlier and get to possibly spend more time there. If not, then a school with more elective time in 3rd year will also allow you earlier exposure to other residency programs. The more I think about it, the more attractive PCOM looks. Still waiting for an interview from them though.

but, but, but . . .glad you got it all figured out already.

 

[laboholic]

in 2006, 5 students matched into ortho from CCOM, in 2007 there were 8

http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/academic/CCOMClinEd/studentArea.htm

 

[Vizsla]

are you only considering DO schools? if MD is an option, you should think about Georgetown...I swear about 1/4 of each graduating class matches to ortho

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I think KCOM put a bunch in ortho last year.

 

[bravotwozero]

Pretty much every DO school has at least a few people who get into Ortho. They might be a handful, but ortho is competitive. Most MD schools also have a small portion of their grads match into ortho.

 

[DangQ3]

Yep, DO only. Got accepted to KCUMB, just interviewed at Western. I know I can't go wrong with either of these schools should i be lucky enough to get accepted into Western also. The only reason why I'm thinking about this issue now is because KCUMB has the $1000 deposit coming up. Just wondering if I get accepted into Western, should I drop KCUMB.

are you only considering DO schools? if MD is an option, you should think about Georgetown...I swear about 1/4 of each graduating class matches to ortho

 

[TexasTriathlete]

One thing about KCUMB that isn't true of many DO schools... they aren't necessarily there to put you into primary care. Phil Byrne, the VP of admissions, told me straight up that their mission is to produce top-flight clinicians, and that they don't try to push you one way or another. Not that other schools do, but at a place like KCUMB, you will be around a lot of like-minded people who want to specialize.

I don't know how Western is about this.

 

[st. pius v]

do i hear another gunner wannabe here? ok- listen up.... i know you are a little bit wet behind the ears but here's the lowdown; any medical school will prepare you well to get into any specialty you can think of. whether they have onsite ortho programs or not is of no concern since you really dont have time to do anything else but study in your first 2 years, especially if you want to gun some good grades to impress whoever you want to impress. that too, is of little concern since residency placement is heavily decided upon your third and fourth yr. rotations (~ 70%) and step 1 scores (~20%).
i spoke personally with the chief executive (dr. morris) of AOOA an he said something that i took it to heart because i believe it to be true- the first thing that any ortho residency program looks for is whether you are a good clinician. to be a good otho surgeon, you have to be a good clinician.
i'm interested in ortho but i'm not exclusively gunning for it- i'm still relatively new to being a medical student and know that there is a lot in medicine that i dont know about that might interest me. with this in mind, i'm making myself available and open to every form of medicine i find best suites me and not my pride- i'm even considering family medicine now since my mentor is a fp hospitalist and i love every moment of it!
in short, dont be so close minded when being a pre- or even a medical student. they is more to medicine than you think. one of my classmate is a gunner wannabe and no one in class likes him- not even the upperclassmen and the current ortho residents. that's how bad he is about wanting to gun for ortho and he's really not as smart as he wants to portray himself to be. is he getting into ortho? i doubt it-

Yep, DO only. Got accepted to KCUMB, just interviewed at Western. I know I can't go wrong with either of these schools should i be lucky enough to get accepted into Western also. The only reason why I'm thinking about this issue now is because KCUMB has the $1000 deposit coming up. Just wondering if I get accepted into Western, should I drop KCUMB.

 

[DangQ3]

Nah, no gunner here. Just thinking too much I guess.

do i hear another gunner wannabe here? ok- listen up.... i know you are a little bit wet behind the ears but here's the lowdown; any medical school will prepare you well to get into any specialty you can think of. whether they have onsite ortho programs or not is of no concern since you really dont have time to do anything else but study in your first 2 years, especially if you want to gun some good grades to impress whoever you want to impress. that too, is of little concern since residency placement is heavily decided upon your third and fourth yr. rotations (~ 70%) and step 1 scores (~20%).
i spoke personally with the chief executive (dr. morris) of AOOA an he said something that i took it to heart because i believe it to be true- the first thing that any ortho residency program looks for is whether you are a good clinician. to be a good otho surgeon, you have to be a good clinician.
i'm interested in ortho but i'm not exclusively gunning for it- i'm still relatively new to being a medical student and know that there is a lot in medicine that i dont know about that might interest me. with this in mind, i'm making myself available and open to every form of medicine i find best suites me and not my pride- i'm even considering family medicine now since my mentor is a fp hospitalist and i love every moment of it!
in short, dont be so close minded when being a pre- or even a medical student. they is more to medicine than you think. one of my classmate is a gunner wannabe and no one in class likes him- not even the upperclassmen and the current ortho residents. that's how bad he is about wanting to gun for ortho and he's really not as smart as he wants to portray himself to be. is he getting into ortho? i doubt it-

 

[Vizsla]

Nah, no gunner here. Just thinking too much I guess.

I dont think its "gunning" if you have an interest in a particular field rather than those pre-meds who believe they were destined to be neurosurgeons ever since they were 5 yrs old. If you are indeed interested in a particular specialty, I think its a great idea to look at a school's success rate of matching into that specialty and at which programs. Of course any school can match into any specialty, but if one school has a very strong history of matching students into ortho, theres prob a good reason (strong dept, well known names...) Also its a good idea to see if your school has its own residency for that specialty since most of the time your best chance of matching is at your home institution.

 

[st. pius v]

anything to do with making a decision PRIOR to STARTING and COMPLETING your first two years of medical school is "gunning" in my book or at least too over-eager, especially considering how competitive ortho is today.
it's good to have interest- but it's not good to base your decisions so early in the game based on your interest. again, it doesnt matter where you go to school- the meat is how well you impress your attendings and the people that you work with in your clinical rotations 3rd and 4th yr.
the success rate of matching is not dependant on the school you go to (as long as it is an accredited school); it depends on how well you perform and how hard you work. DO schools are traditionally GP production machines- that's why the percentages are low as far as matching into competitive residencies such as ortho and also the few spots that are open.
point being.... it is ridiculous to choose a medical school because on interest in a specialty. you choose your medical school based on adaptation and how you think the school can best prepare and train you to be a good physician (any specialty). also, people that come in as first year have no idea what's in store for them.
take this for what it's worth (from an ortho surgeon who is an instructor in our gross lab); just worry about PASSING the courses your first two years and bust your ass your third and fourth years and you'll find yourself in a sweet spot. he was a chief resident and an attending who has a lot of experience in deciding who's in and who's out in an ortho program before branching out into private practice.
you guys need to chill out- go to school and pass all your classes first and second yrs. and then maybe it's still too early to think about ortho.

I dont think its "gunning" if you have an interest in a particular field rather than those pre-meds who believe they were destined to be neurosurgeons ever since they were 5 yrs old. If you are indeed interested in a particular specialty, I think its a great idea to look at a school's success rate of matching into that specialty and at which programs. Of course any school can match into any specialty, but if one school has a very strong history of matching students into ortho, theres prob a good reason (strong dept, well known names...) Also its a good idea to see if your school has its own residency for that specialty since most of the time your best chance of matching is at your home institution.

 

[alEXatosu]

8 of the 29 ortho programs are located in ohio. OUCOM is associated with all 8 of those schools through its CORE residency program. therefore, you automatically get a lot more face time than other students might just through rotations.

 

[st. pius v]

just think about PASSING your first yr. dude- if you dont make it, it doesnt matter if there is a 100% association of a school with any ortho programs; if you dont pass 1st yr, you'll be out with a substantial amount of debt and working in some kfc somewhere- you can work on the chicken bones then....

8 of the 29 ortho programs are located in ohio. OUCOM is associated with all 8 of those schools through its CORE residency program. therefore, you automatically get a lot more face time than other students might just through rotations.

 

[Terpskins99]

It doesn't matter, folks.

Belonging to a school that has a hospital with a specific residency... well, it COULD help match at that one program. But thats about it. It doesn't guarantee anything. Likewise, being at a lesser known school won't hurt you if you're a good student that does well on boards and rotations.

It sounds cliche, but your career is what you make of it. Study hard, ace boards (I repeat, ACE BOARDS), be a superstar during rotations and you can do whatever you want.

 

[DangQ3]

anything to do with making a decision PRIOR to STARTING and COMPLETING your first two years of medical school is "gunning" in my book or at least too over-eager, especially considering how competitive ortho is today.

How does that make someone a gunner? You yourself don't even know what you're talking about yet being you only heard it through other people be it an attending or whatever. Please don't go acting you know more than others. That, my friend, is a gunner.

 

[st. pius v]

me myself? hey, at least i'm IN med. school and know what it's like to be a med. student and the people that i associate with are all IN the circle of medicine and knows the REALITY of medicine. look at the comments coming from those who ARE in med. school (like Terpskins99). i'm just conveying my experiences as a medical student and giving you insight on what's INSIDE. you, my dear dangq3 a.k.a gunner are looking IN from the OUTSIDE. you havent a clue what med. school is about, yet you are talking about choosing a school based on ortho? that's immature at best and very amateurish. set your priorities right, son!
past your first yr. and then get back with me....

How does that make someone a gunner? You yourself don't even know what you're talking about yet being you only heard it through other people be it an attending or whatever. Please don't go acting you know more than others. That, my friend, is a gunner.

 

[Terpskins99]

Yep, DO only. Got accepted to KCUMB, just interviewed at Western. I know I can't go wrong with either of these schools should i be lucky enough to get accepted into Western also. The only reason why I'm thinking about this issue now is because KCUMB has the $1000 deposit coming up. Just wondering if I get accepted into Western, should I drop KCUMB.

I've seen previous western match lists and they've been very impressive.

But just an indication of KCUMB... the class of 2007 had 7 ortho, 3 rads, 2 ent, 1 derm and 1 neurosurg match.

 

[DangQ3]

Okay you're absolutely right. I am immature in making these decisions since this is my first time applying to medical school and my first experience with making life changing choices. Hence, I asked the questions and getting helpful responses. What's your excuse for accusing someone you've never associated with to be a gunner?

me myself? hey, at least i'm IN med. school and know what it's like to be a med. student and the people that i associate with are all IN the circle of medicine and knows the REALITY of medicine. look at the comments coming from those who ARE in med. school (like Terpskins99). i'm just conveying my experiences as a medical student and giving you insight on what's INSIDE. you, my dear dangq3 a.k.a gunner are looking IN from the OUTSIDE. you havent a clue what med. school is about, yet you are talking about choosing a school based on ortho? that's immature at best and very amateurish. set your priorities right, son!
past your first yr. and then get back with me....

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

I've seen previous western match lists and they've been very impressive.

But just an indication of KCUMB... the class of 2007 had 7 ortho, 3 rads, 2 ent, 1 derm and 1 neurosurg match.

Wells for 2006 DMU had 9 ortho, 4 rad, 1 rad onc, 2 derm, 2 optho, 3 ent, 1 neurosurg, 1 urosurg, and 28 EM.

http://www.dmu.edu/com/residencies/MatchSpecialty2006.cfm

 

[yoosername]

My opinion regarding DO residencies (all residencies, not just ortho) is that they very highly value face time. In my experience, being a 3rd/4th year at the hospital where they have your coveted residency spot dramatically increases your chance of landing there - possibly more than aceing boards or maintaining high grades (though you'll want to do both those things, too). These progams want people they can work with. And don't think you can just do an out-rotation there to get yourself known. The hospital where I trained has an ortho program, and there were always like 3 or 4 students on the service. I asked one of the ortho guys how they assess potential residents with so many people on the service, and he said they don't - it's way too crowded. On the other hand, a classmate of mine who was at the hospital for 3rd/4th year took every opportunity to do stuff with the ortho guys, and he's been all but guaranteed a spot. Many of the current ortho residents did the same thing.

A quick search of the opportunities website shows that most ortho spots are in Ohio and Michigan. I'd recommend you go to a place that has students train there - either those state schools or places like DMU, KCUMB, etc that send students there.

By the way, DangQ3, if you're going to do ortho, you'd better be a gunner.

 

[cuddlepuppy]

You know, I used to take slight offense when people called me a gunner. Why was I a gunner? Because I set my sights on a goal early on and researched what I'd have to do to attain my goals? If that's made me a gunner than I'll admit it now. When I was in med school, the people that made a point of calling me a gunner were usually the ones who were making a big deal about grades, class rank, and possible future residency choices.

Honestly, I think you have the right attitude to set goals so early on. I hope you can follow them without becoming the real reason why people don't like gunners in the first place (not helping others in your class, not sharing your knowledge, fighting about an extra point for your grade, always watching behind your back and trying to be the top student applying for a certain residency).

With all that said, I went to a medical school that didn't have an associated ortho program...did that hurt me? I wouldn't say that. You're right to say that DO programs do take "face time" more seriously. But think about it, shining brightly for 4 weeks versus two years...what's easier? I know of many people who were at core hospitals with ortho who didn't do well on their other 3rd/4th year rotations (psych, ob, peds, etc) and word traveled through the GME and residents.

I wouldn't choose a school based on if they have an associated ortho program. Instead, choose the school that you think will help you to prepare the best for boards and to get a great education...after that, everything else with fall into place. Once you have a killer application for ortho, a month long elective where you work your butt off will get you a spot...no doubt.

Also, who knows if you plans will change throughout med school. I started school dead set on wanting to do FP and switched to ortho. Just pick the right school for you, the future is what you make of it.

Good luck.

CP

 

[Vizsla]

Wells for 2006 DMU had 9 ortho, 4 rad, 1 rad onc, 2 derm, 2 optho, 3 ent, 1 neurosurg, 1 urosurg, and 28 EM.

http://www.dmu.edu/com/residencies/MatchSpecialty2006.cfm

what does it mean when it says students matched into cardiology or gastro as their residency?? i thought these were fellowships after doing IM

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

what does it mean when it says students matched into cardiology or gastro as their residency?? i thought these were fellowships after doing IM

you got me, My best guess is some knd of research program before residency.

 

[st. pius v]

nicely worded
i was just a little heavy on mr. dang because i get so tired of pre-meds trying to "gun" for a goal they are not even sure what lies in the path. that's the most insane thing i heard all week about a pre-med choosing a med. school because he wants to do ortho.
sure, a little ambition and settings goals early is good but this is way too pre-mature. if any pre-meds out there who is reading this, focus on what's in front of you. if you got accepted, congrats- choose a school that you feel will best prepare you for your training and the environment that you think will be optimal for your preparation. dont jump the gun too early- focus on your first yr., and then second, and then....
i've seen too many casualties in my class and upperclassmen- i'm sure they have ambitions to what they want to do.... but not passing their first yr. or second yr. is a major, i mean, MAJOR block towards getting any competitive residencies.

You know, I used to take slight offense when people called me a gunner. Why was I a gunner? Because I set my sights on a goal early on and researched what I'd have to do to attain my goals? If that's made me a gunner than I'll admit it now. When I was in med school, the people that made a point of calling me a gunner were usually the ones who were making a big deal about grades, class rank, and possible future residency choices.

Honestly, I think you have the right attitude to set goals so early on. I hope you can follow them without becoming the real reason why people don't like gunners in the first place (not helping others in your class, not sharing your knowledge, fighting about an extra point for your grade, always watching behind your back and trying to be the top student applying for a certain residency).

With all that said, I went to a medical school that didn't have an associated ortho program...did that hurt me? I wouldn't say that. You're right to say that DO programs do take "face time" more seriously. But think about it, shining brightly for 4 weeks versus two years...what's easier? I know of many people who were at core hospitals with ortho who didn't do well on their other 3rd/4th year rotations (psych, ob, peds, etc) and word traveled through the GME and residents.

I wouldn't choose a school based on if they have an associated ortho program. Instead, choose the school that you think will help you to prepare the best for boards and to get a great education...after that, everything else with fall into place. Once you have a killer application for ortho, a month long elective where you work your butt off will get you a spot...no doubt.

Also, who knows if you plans will change throughout med school. I started school dead set on wanting to do FP and switched to ortho. Just pick the right school for you, the future is what you make of it.

Good luck.

CP

 

[somewhiteguy41]

FYI the Riverside ortho program "associated" with western currently has 2 residents from Western; both of which were gunners from my understanding.

 

[st. pius v]

maybe they are minorities and not somewhiteguy....

FYI the Riverside ortho program "associated" with western currently has 2 residents from Western; both of which were gunners from my understanding.

 

[Terpskins99]

Wells for 2006 DMU had 9 ortho, 4 rad, 1 rad onc, 2 derm, 2 optho, 3 ent, 1 neurosurg, 1 urosurg, and 28 EM.

EM? Is that supposed to be a good thing?

 

[serenity head]

I think Chicago_COM offers a lot of options for all areas of Medicine. They have a great relationship with many of the allopathic hospitals in the city as well as a few in Michigan. They also allow electives as a third year and offer surgery subspecialty training in 3rd year as well. My class of 2007 had a pretty impressive match list.

 

[box29]

I think Chicago_COM offers a lot of options for all areas of Medicine. They have a great relationship with many of the allopathic hospitals in the city as well as a few in Michigan. They also allow electives as a third year and offer surgery subspecialty training in 3rd year as well. My class of 2007 had a pretty impressive match list.

Yeah, they had 10 rads, 8 ortho, 5 gen surg, 8 anesthesiology, 1 ENT-facial plastics, 3 neurosurgery, 3 ophthalmology, 2 urology, 13 EM (one is IM/EM)

 

[OnMyWayThere]

Yeah, they had 10 rads, 8 ortho, 5 gen surg, 8 anesthesiology, 1 ENT-facial plastics, 3 neurosurgery, 3 ophthalmology, 2 urology, 13 EM (one is IM/EM)

WOW that's really impressive! That is not even counting the ones doing the PGY-1 rotational internship and then going into residency?

 

[box29]

WOW that's really impressive! That is not even counting the ones doing the PGY-1 rotational internship and then going into residency?

It's including the PGY-1...

 

[Lamborghini1315]

It doesn't matter, folks.

Belonging to a school that has a hospital with a specific residency... well, it COULD help match at that one program. But thats about it. It doesn't guarantee anything. Likewise, being at a lesser known school won't hurt you if you're a good student that does well on boards and rotations.

It sounds cliche, but your career is what you make of it. Study hard, ace boards (I repeat, ACE BOARDS), be a superstar during rotations and you can do whatever you want.

some posts in here are hard to agree with but your's is right on target...well put my friend

 

[group_theory]

PCOM had

12 going into Anesthesiology, 16 into EM, 6 into EM/IM or EM/FP combine programs, 1 into acgme IM/Derm combine program, 4 into Neurosurgery, 2 optho, 8 ortho, 7 ENT, 3 radiology, 12 gen surgery, 2 urology