Best Schools for Specializing

[EmanUT]

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Does anyone know what the best schools for specializing are?

 

[howui3]

Does anyone know what the best schools for specializing are?

depends on what specialty you are talking about.... but UCLA and Colombia, for example, have good matching rates.

 

[ElDienteLoco]

The schools where you can get the highest board scores and class rank...

It really does depend on what specialty you want...unless you're one of the "I just plan to specialize because it makes more money than general dentistry types"...which you hopefully aren't. Some schools will give you more experience in certain fields and some schools will help you to get involved in research so you can get into specialty schools. It all depends on what you want.

 

[superchris147]

Does anyone know what the best schools for specializing are?

take the ndbe part 1 and then ask this question

 

[fightingspirit]

Does anyone know what the best schools for specializing are?

yes, the best school for specializing for you is the school in which you can kill NBDE1 and rank in the top 5% of your class.

 

[VClovesteeth05]

Harvard has a high specialty rate, (around 100%--give or take a few students), UConn has a great rate, as does Michigan, UPenn, Buffalo, Stony Brook, etc. I think the key is just being at a place where you can do well in school and on the boards. Also something to keep in mind is places that don't rank and have pass fail (like UConn and Harvard and maybe UCSF), because then everyone's pretty equal in terms of how they did in dental school and the only thing is the boards. I hope this helps.

 

[americanpierg]

The schools where you can get the highest board scores and class rank...

It really does depend on what specialty you want...unless you're one of the "I just plan to specialize because it makes more money than general dentistry types"...which you hopefully aren't. Some schools will give you more experience in certain fields and some schools will help you to get involved in research so you can get into specialty schools. It all depends on what you want.

hahahahahaha of course thats the whole point of specializing...no one wants to become an ortho becuase they love the look of little children's faces when they straighten their teeth....yea right

 

[mr_gestapito]

hahahahahaha of course thats the whole point of specializing...no one wants to become an ortho becuase they love the look of little children's faces when they straighten their teeth....yea right

I really hope americanpierg is just demonstrating the depth of his sense of humor with this post, otherwise he really has a lot to learn. Anyone who specializes for the money is an even bigger idiot than the guy who decides to be a dentist for the money.

The above post had it right, wait until after your NDBE I and your first couple years of dental school before deciding if you want to specialize. You need exposure to the various specialties that not even shadowing can provide.

 

[kokobean]

where can you find these numbers?

 

[Rezdawg]

I really hope americanpierg is just demonstrating the depth of his sense of humor with this post, otherwise he really has a lot to learn. Anyone who specializes for the money is an even bigger idiot than the guy who decides to be a dentist for the money.

Lets be honest here, he doesnt have that much to learn...I'd say a fair amount of people specialize because of the additional money. If Endo had an average pay equal to GP, you'd see much less people going into it...its the way it works. Sure, some people love giving root canals, but there are many that enjoy the financial aspects of specializing.

 

[mr_gestapito]

Lets be honest here, he doesnt have that much to learn...I'd say a fair amount of people specialize because of the additional money. If Endo had an average pay equal to GP, you'd see much less people going into it...its the way it works. Sure, some people love giving root canals, but there are many that enjoy the financial aspects of specializing.

Doesn't have that much to learn?? Then you and him both can go into specialties for the money and along the way you will learn that going into a specialty means more schooling, more debt, limiting the variety of work you will do, kissing up to general dentists your entire career for referrals, and all to receive the cases that the general dentists didn't want. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from specializing, if you enjoy any aspect of dentistry enough then by all means specialize, but doing it for the money is dumb.

 

[DrGeek]

Doesn't have that much to learn?? Then you and him both can go into specialties for the money and along the way you will learn that going into a specialty means more schooling, more debt, limiting the variety of work you will do, kissing up to general dentists your entire career for referrals, and all to receive the cases that the general dentists didn't want. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from specializing, if you enjoy any aspect of dentistry enough then by all means specialize, but doing it for the money is dumb.

All specialties are bad for the soul.

 

[superchris147]

Doesn't have that much to learn?? Then you and him both can go into specialties for the money and along the way you will learn that going into a specialty means more schooling, more debt, limiting the variety of work you will do, kissing up to general dentists your entire career for referrals, and all to receive the cases that the general dentists didn't want. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from specializing, if you enjoy any aspect of dentistry enough then by all means specialize, but doing it for the money is dumb.

Dude, you are crazy. If you have to kiss up to GP's to get referrals then you obviously arn't very good with your hands. It has more to do with location/# of patients than kissing up to GP's.

Not to mention you say more debt. The average specialist will make 70k more/year than the average GP. Even if that's 4 years of residency and you're assuming that you could have been making 170k/year for 4 years you could make up that income lost in like 9.5 years and then you'll be making more.

Unless you absolutely hate what you are doing, doing it for the money is not dumb and more training is always good

 

[mr_gestapito]

Dude, you are crazy. If you have to kiss up to GP's to get referrals then you obviously arn't very good with your hands. It has more to do with location/# of patients than kissing up to GP's.

Not to mention you say more debt. The average specialist will make 70k more/year than the average GP. Even if that's 4 years of residency and you're assuming that you could have been making 170k/year for 4 years you could make up that income lost in like 9.5 years and then you'll be making more.

Unless you absolutely hate what you are doing, doing it for the money is not dumb and more training is always good

Where exactly do you think specialists get their patients from?? Last time you had a tooth ache did you think, "hmm, this probably needs a root canal, I should probably call and endodontist," it doesn't happen that way, especially when an endodontist is usually double the price. People go to their general dentist first and since general dentists were exposed to everything in dental school then whatever they feel comfortable treating they take care of.
And if you're doing it for the money and not because you have a sincere interest in what you're doing you will find yourself miserable. Even 70K extra a year does not compensate for not liking what you are doing.

 

[superchris147]

Where exactly do you think specialists get their patients from?? Last time you had a tooth ache did you think, "hmm, this probably needs a root canal, I should probably call and endodontist," it doesn't happen that way, especially when an endodontist is usually double the price. People go to their general dentist first and since general dentists were exposed to everything in dental school then whatever they feel comfortable treating they take care of.
And if you're doing it for the money and not because you have a sincere interest in what you're doing you will find yourself miserable. Even 70K extra a year does not compensate for not liking what you are doing.

I know that a specialist gets referrals from GP's i'm not an idiot. My point is that specialists don't have to kiss @$$ to get patients. Period. Maybe some do but none of the ones that I have talked to complained about that.

So using your example of a toothache, you get a toothache then you go to your GP, and he says "you need endo" and then he thinks to himself "this endo might take me an hour and a half, when i could be doing a crown and a filling" BAM REFERRAL to endodontist. He's not thinking to himself "well, Jim the endo guy didn't compliment me on my golf swing the last time we played, i'm doing this endo myself to spite him".

My point is this: don't make rediculous claims that specialists have to beg for patients/kiss up to GPs for patients because it is simply untrue

 

[Rezdawg]

Doesn't have that much to learn?? Then you and him both can go into specialties for the money and along the way you will learn that going into a specialty means more schooling, more debt, limiting the variety of work you will do, kissing up to general dentists your entire career for referrals, and all to receive the cases that the general dentists didn't want. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from specializing, if you enjoy any aspect of dentistry enough then by all means specialize, but doing it for the money is dumb.

Umm, okay. Im not really leaning towards specializing, but to think that, financially speaking, specializing doesnt help you out (despite additional loans, years of training, etc...), then you are wrong...about 90% of the time. In the long run, specializing will net you more money. And if money is a concern and you are interested in specializing, then doing so is not dumb...because there will be plenty more money to be had.

 

[mr_gestapito]

I know that a specialist gets referrals from GP's i'm not an idiot. My point is that specialists don't have to kiss @$$ to get patients. Period. Maybe some do but none of the ones that I have talked to complained about that.

So using your example of a toothache, you get a toothache then you go to your GP, and he says "you need endo" and then he thinks to himself "this endo might take me an hour and a half, when i could be doing a crown and a filling" BAM REFERRAL to endodontist. He's not thinking to himself "well, Jim the endo guy didn't compliment me on my golf swing the last time we played, i'm doing this endo myself to spite him".

My point is this: don't make rediculous claims that specialists have to beg for patients/kiss up to GPs for patients because it is simply untrue

If you really think that I am making ridiculous claims then all I can say is that someday you will realize how things work. Of course a specialist is not goign to tell you that he kisses up to get work, there is a pride issue at work here, he calls it marketing himself, but constantly taking GD's out to lunch, on golf outings, renting out movie theaters for all of your referring GD's and their employees amounts to kissing up. If all you think it takes is being good with your hands then you are in for a rude awakening whether you remain in GP or go on to specialize.
And your scenario? I never said a GP wouldn't refer out to, "spite," a specialist. What I'm saying is that a GP who takes CE seriously would be capable of doing the endo himself, making himself $700, and still be capable of multi-tasking and completing the crown prep too. And what if the dentist doesn't have another patient to work on at that time?? Your scenario was flawed, sorry.
My point all along has been if money is your MAIN motivation you might want to think twice.

 

[superchris147]

If you really think that I am making ridiculous claims then all I can say is that someday you will realize how things work. Of course a specialist is not goign to tell you that he kisses up to get work, there is a pride issue at work here, he calls it marketing himself, but constantly taking GD's out to lunch, on golf outings, renting out movie theaters for all of your referring GD's and their employees amounts to kissing up. If all you think it takes is being good with your hands then you are in for a rude awakening whether you remain in GP or go on to specialize.

I don't know where you come from but I have never heard of this happening. If anyone else can back you up that specialists are taking GD's out to lunch constantly/renting out movie theatres/etc to get referrals then I will "realize how things work" and never speak on the issue again. And yes i still think that you are rediculous.

 

[mr_gestapito]

Umm, okay. Im not really leaning towards specializing, but to think that, financially speaking, specializing doesnt help you out (despite additional loans, years of training, etc...), then you are wrong...about 90% of the time. In the long run, specializing will net you more money. And if money is a concern and you are interested in specializing, then doing so is not dumb...because there will be plenty more money to be had.

If it wasn't for Saturday Night Live I wouldn't still be up doing this, what can I say I'm married with two kids it's what I do on Saturday nights.
Anyway, Rezdawg I agree with you here. If you read my previous posts I was only pointing out the flawed thinking of the poster who stated that everyone who specializes does so for the money. I never said specializing was dumb to do if it interests you.
My point, make sure you understand what you are getting into and that you can handle everything that goes along with it, that goes for GP's, specialists, or any other profession. Life is more enjoyable if you like what you are doing everyday, regardless of your income.
Now the post can get back on topic before it gets locked.

 

[mr_gestapito]

I don't know where you come from but I have never heard of this happening. If anyone else can back you up that specialists are taking GD's out to lunch constantly/renting out movie theatres/etc to get referrals then I will "realize how things work" and never speak on the issue again. And yes i still think that you are rediculous.

Now only because you requested proof, and I'll admit this may be an Arizona and Utah thing, my friend from school just left my house and his dad has been in GP in Utah for over twenty years. He said his father is constantly being taken out to lunch etc. by specialists that would like him to refer work to them. My little sister worked for a very successful endodontist in Arizona who once a year would rent out an entire movie theater for all of his referring GP's, all of the GP's employees and all of their families, to say thank you for the referrals, and keep them coming. My cousin who has been in GP for thirty plus years has said he rarely pays for lunch unless he wants to due to the fact that specialists are always willing to foot the bill. The same has been said by my brother-in-laws father (20+ years GP) and so on and so on. It happens, sorry if you don't want to believe it.

 

[HermeytheElf]

I don't know where you come from but I have never heard of this happening. If anyone else can back you up that specialists are taking GD's out to lunch constantly/renting out movie theatres/etc to get referrals then I will "realize how things work" and never speak on the issue again. And yes i still think that you are rediculous.

Talk to any general dentist or specialist and they will tell you that half the job of being a specialist is schmoozing with the general dentists to keep their referral base alive. It works out well for the general dentists kids because when we want to shadow and get LORs, the specialists will all jump at a chance to write you a letter since they know they're earning huge points with your dad(or mom). If you want to specialize, you are gonna have to get used to the idea of sucking up to general dentists. If you don't, you'll never be able to keep your patient base at a reasonable level.

 

[HermeytheElf]

I know that a specialist gets referrals from GP's i'm not an idiot. My point is that specialists don't have to kiss @$$ to get patients. Period. Maybe some do but none of the ones that I have talked to complained about that.

So using your example of a toothache, you get a toothache then you go to your GP, and he says "you need endo" and then he thinks to himself "this endo might take me an hour and a half, when i could be doing a crown and a filling" BAM REFERRAL to endodontist. He's not thinking to himself "well, Jim the endo guy didn't compliment me on my golf swing the last time we played, i'm doing this endo myself to spite him".

My point is this: don't make rediculous claims that specialists have to beg for patients/kiss up to GPs for patients because it is simply untrue

The choice for the general dentist is not if he should refer such a case out to an endodontist, rather which endodontist he is going to refer to. That is where the sucking up plays a role. Who's going to get the referral, the endodontist who's never so much as said one word to you or the guy who's been taking you out to lunch once a month for the past 10 years?

 

[superchris147]

Now only because you requested proof, and I'll admit this may be an Arizona and Utah thing, my friend from school just left my house and his dad has been in GP in Utah for over twenty years. He said his father is constantly being taken out to lunch etc. by specialists that would like him to refer work to them. My little sister worked for a very successful endodontist in Arizona who once a year would rent out an entire movie theater for all of his referring GP's, all of the GP's employees and all of their families, to say thank you for the referrals, and keep them coming. My cousin who has been in GP for thirty plus years has said he rarely pays for lunch unless he wants to due to the fact that specialists are always willing to foot the bill. The same has been said by my brother-in-laws father (20+ years GP) and so on and so on. It happens, sorry if you don't want to believe it.

Well I guess I concede, i just have to admit that I have never heard of that kind of stuff happening. All the specialists that I have talked to have never had a problem with staying busy or keeping up their patient base so maybe it doesn't apply to them. I don't know I guess i'm ignorant on this issue

 

[superchris147]

The choice for the general dentist is not if he should refer such a case out to an endodontist, rather which endodontist he is going to refer to. That is where the sucking up plays a role. Who's going to get the referral, the endodontist who's never so much as said one word to you or the guy who's been taking you out to lunch once a month for the past 10 years?

The GD's that I've talked to have emphasized that they refer to who they think does the best work. So does that mean I can look forward to some BJ's from Dr. Endo's wife? 👍