best SMP programs

[plsfoldthx]

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Hey,

I was just wondering what are the best and more difficult smp programs to get into?

 

[drizzt3117]

Hey,

I was just wondering what are the best and more difficult smp programs to get into?

Really? Not like there's been any posts on this or anything...

Linkage: 1.Tulane ACP, 2. Cincinnati 3. EVMS 4. RFU
Non-Linkage: 1. Tufts 2. BU 3. GT 4. Loyola

 

[deleted248403]

You can try the search function as well to find the other million times its been brought up

 

[plsfoldthx]

You can try the search function as well to find the other million times its been brought up

um ive tried the search function which is obviously why im making this thread

 

[deleted248403]

Well as drizzt mentioned its been beaten to death on this forum...

 

[DrMidlife]

I don't think it's been discussed to death - there's only been one thread on it that I recall. Searching for "rank" finds this: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=698041.

Tufts above GTown already, drizzt? Why?

 

[drizzt3117]

I don't think it's been discussed to death - there's only been one thread on it that I recall. Searching for "rank" finds this: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=698041.

Tufts above GTown already, drizzt? Why?

I'm not a fan of the environment at GT, or the success relative to other programs which IMO is way overstated (my guess from anecdotal evidence is that far less than 50% and perhaps less than 33% of students get in after the first year and if 80% got in after 2 years, much less 90% as they claim, I'd be shocked) and I think it's overpriced.

 

[Haplo]

This is a completely subjective topic. Perhaps the OP could ask this slightly better by stating what they are looking for in an SMP (give us a metric).

 

[jslo85]

I believe I saw the OP saying in another thread that he was going to Tufts.

Whereas I'm on the fence as to what the "top program" is, it is a purely subjective topic imo.

There are alot of factors that go into a selection of a program over another such as tuition, location, curriculum, class size, linkage to their own medical school, acceptance %s to other medical schools, etc. Each individual applicant has a different emphasis on each of those factors as well making say one applicant's primary concern with tuition a lesser concern for someone else and so on.

That said, Georgetown SMP is the oldest and probably the most "established" imo but that other programs have factors that may make it equally or more attractive to certain individuals based on what factors they personally value.

I personally do not feel that from all that I've read, Georgetown's environment is conducive to the overall success of their entire class in the amount of rigor and "cutthroat' atmosphere that they seem to have, yet I think most students that end up attending the Gtown program have a good idea (somewhat) of what they're getting themselves into.

That said, linkages for me are most important and as such I actually rank it as

1. UCinn
2. Gtown/Tufts
3. BU/EVMS (linkage vs. wide recognition)
4. RFU/VCU

Note: This is purely my own opinion as a disclaimer

For osteopathic SMPs it's basically strength of linkage and which medical school you actually want to attend for whatever reason.

 

[Looking Glass]

Hey,

I was just wondering what are the best and more difficult smp programs to get into?

Can't go wrong with Cincy 👍

Last time I checked, half of this year's class has already gotten into Cincinnati for medical school for next year.

 

[mic2377]

I would rank them as
1. U-Cinn/G-town
2. EVMS
3. Tulane/BU

Oh, while there isn't actually linkage at U-Cinn, they definitely skim the better applicants from the class. Everyone is evaluated on an individual basis and goes through the same interview process as all other applicants to UC.

Personally, G-town is just too expensive. EVMS is up there due to their high acceptance rate.

 

[drizzt3117]

I would rank them as
1. U-Cinn/G-town
2. EVMS
3. Tulane/BU

Oh, while there isn't actually linkage at U-Cinn, they definitely skim the better applicants from the class. Everyone is evaluated on an individual basis and goes through the same interview process as all other applicants to UC.

Personally, G-town is just too expensive. EVMS is up there due to their high acceptance rate.

Tulane is the cheapest program and has the highest rate of acceptance of any SMP. I don't see how this wouldn't be everyone's #1 if they were eligible to apply to it, if the purpose was simply med school admission into a MD school.

 

[DrMidlife]

I'm not a fan of the environment at GT, or the success relative to other programs which IMO is way overstated (my guess from anecdotal evidence is that far less than 50% and perhaps less than 33% of students get in after the first year and if 80% got in after 2 years, much less 90% as they claim, I'd be shocked) and I think it's overpriced.

I think the same is true of Boston. I don't see results numbers from Tufts that put it in #1, and it's my understanding that Tufts is going to have the same huge class size as GT. Think they can keep it organized? I'd be skeptical. All 3 (GT, BU, Tufts) seem to be getting Drexelized.

To make up a rule, I think that the non-linkage programs are fine for a GPA that's less than one standard deviation below average. By contrast, a 3.0/30 student isn't going to get a same-year acceptance out of those programs, as they would in TulaneACP/Cinn/EVMS.

 

[drizzt3117]

I think the same is true of Boston. I don't see results numbers from Tufts that put it in #1, and it's my understanding that Tufts is going to have the same huge class size as GT. Think they can keep it organized? I'd be skeptical. All 3 (GT, BU, Tufts) seem to be getting Drexelized.

To make up a rule, I think that the non-linkage programs are fine for a GPA that's less than one standard deviation below average. By contrast, a 3.0/30 student isn't going to get a same-year acceptance out of those programs, as they would in TulaneACP/Cinn/EVMS.

I don't think BU has quite the same environment as GT. GT's med school is known for an overly competitive environment, while BU and Tufts are significantly more laid back in my experience.

 

[TyrKinase]

All 3 (GT, BU, Tufts) seem to be getting Drexelized.

** Golf clap **

Tulane is the cheapest program and has the highest rate of acceptance of any SMP. I don't see how this wouldn't be everyone's #1 if they were eligible to apply to it, if the purpose was simply med school admission into a MD school.

A minor nitpick: Tulane's Anatomy Certification Program (ACP) isn't technically a linkage because surpassing the academic benchmarks (i.e. beating the T1 average) doesn't guarantee admittance to the School of Medicine. Folks with strange personalities and good grades have failed to gain acceptance (it's rare) but with that being said, I'd still argue that ACP is one of the, if not the best program out there for getting into an allopathic medical school, assuming the applicant is eligible to apply.

Also, Tulane is a pretty phenomenal place to attend medical school. The faculty is engaging, the students are interesting and New Orleans can't be beat*.


*Unless you hate having fun, listening to good music, eating phenomenal food and/or having a week off for Mardi Gras.

 

[yadave]

Can't go wrong with Cincy 👍

Last time I checked, half of this year's class has already gotten into Cincinnati for medical school for next year.

a friend of mine is included in this group and she considered herself lower on the scale compared to the others who got accepted. definitely cant go wrong with cinci.

 

[klmnop]

I think the same is true of Boston. I don't see results numbers from Tufts that put it in #1, and it's my understanding that Tufts is going to have the same huge class size as GT. Think they can keep it organized? I'd be skeptical. All 3 (GT, BU, Tufts) seem to be getting Drexelized.

To make up a rule, I think that the non-linkage programs are fine for a GPA that's less than one standard deviation below average. By contrast, a 3.0/30 student isn't going to get a same-year acceptance out of those programs, as they would in TulaneACP/Cinn/EVMS.

The numbers aren't there yet for Tufta true. At the open house they had an unofficial percentage of 80% matriculated med students for the first class, which isn't amazing, but its by no means terrible when you consider there are going to be some slackers in a class of 100 and some kids who change their minds. They did say they will officially cap the class at 100 students and will not accept any more than this. The director made it sound like this was a permanent goal, but obviously we will have to wait and see.

I think the GT numbers should be looked at more closely for what they are. While the purpose of the program is to get into med school within one year, based on the statistics I think it is clear that most medical schools want to see smp grades and thus this is sometimes a stretch for students. I do believe, however, that GT is the most successful for getting students into med school the year-of, even if that number is very low. Thier year-after results of like 80% seem to be more on par with Tufts and BU. And if you consider they have 180 students, thats 144 students matriulating into med school every two years which is still a positive. My issue with GT is the false expectations that seem to be spread by the administration, coupled with the anecdotal lack of adequate support and incomparable competitiveness.

For same year acceptances I would go Cinci + Tulane... BU, GT, and Tufts if you want better chances of getting into a different school than the host one, the year after.

As far as being drexelized, i don't see any of those three adding more students, because as soon as they do their true percentages will drop, the effectiveness of the program will drop, and then the number of applicants will drop. Its a money game, but ultimately neither the demand by students nor the capability of mass success is there (especially since the classes are taught by med profs, so it would be hard to see the smp classes signifiantly surpassing the med school class sizes).

 

[drizzt3117]

There's also people who ended up having to do do, Carib, and intl schools after a smp. My cousin is at a do school now after doing the Georgetown smp. She had a 3.55/31 and got a 3.6 in the program, and finally got in somewhere on her 3rd cycle (applied md only on her first cycle before the smp, second one during it, finally added them late in the 3rd and got in immediately. She could have easily done do without the smp, meaning it was an utter waste of time and money. She also said that a good chunk of her classmates are at do schools no matter what gt claims. Again, i'd take everything the programs say with a big grain of salt. The only stat I'd trust is how many people matrixulate into the home program.

 

[GorgeousBorges]

Here's how I'd rank them. I'd separate them into tiers based on their ability to support same-year applications.

1. Temple ACMS/Tulane ACP (basically guaranteed admission as long as you meet a certain academic benchmark)

2. University of Cincinnati, EVMS, Toledo, RFU (strong chance of matriculation into the host school).

3. Georgetown, BU, Tufts (questionable support of same-year application, but great results if you do well).

4. Everything else.

 

[deleted248403]

Bumping a 3 yr old thread?

 

[skippy]

Bumping an old thread is better than making a new one, IMO.

 

[common man]

why no mention of drexel ims? in terms of how well known the program or name recognition, i think drexel is only behind georgetown and BU. i wonder what are the oldest smps after georgetown.

Bumping an old thread is better than making a new one, IMO.

+1

 

[GorgeousBorges]

why no mention of drexel ims? in terms of how well known the program or name recognition, i think drexel is only behind georgetown and BU. i wonder what are the oldest smps after georgetown.



+1

You can't measure name-recognition. You can measure results. In spite of its guaranteed interview, Drexel interviews far less of its IMS students than most SMPs. Everyone at EVMS gets an interview (or nearly everyone, please be merciful on me DrMidlife). Nearly everyone who applies same-year to Cincinnati gets an interview. More than half of the RFU class gets an ACCEPTANCE to RFU, not just an interview. Half of the class at Georgetown gets an interview. So Drexel's guaranteed interview sounds a lot better than it is, and there are a lot of programs that don't guarantee anything that give you a lot more.

Also, Drexel doesn't publish its results. For programs that don't publish their results (and even for those that do), you have to go by what people have said about them. Reviews of the Drexel IMS on SDN are occasionally positive but mostly negative. For all of Drexel's 'reputation' there seem to be a large number of people on SDN who say they did well in the program and haven't been very successful even in the year after.

I don't think that the age of a program is nearly as important as you're making it.

 

[DrMidlife]

"best" is as useless a word as "postbac" in this forum.

"Best" depends on what you're trying to do. Are you trying to get into a UC in California or a SUNY in NY? Are you trying to get into the host MD school? Are you trying to get into a DO school? Are you going to prioritize getting in somewhere/anywhere over doing the work to raise your undergrad GPA and/or MCAT score? Are you trying for med/dent/pod/vet? Can you move cross country?

"Postbac" also depends on what you're trying to do. Have you taken the prereqs already? Do you need GPA redemption? Do you need to be in a degree-seeking program (to get registration priority, loan deferrals, financial aid, etc)? Have you completed undergrad yet?

Generally people who come here looking for rankings are expecting to be told what to do. For people who want to go to med/dent/vet school, that's not a good characteristic.

Best of luck to you.

 

[GorgeousBorges]

DrMidlife, I don't think it's as vague as you're making it sound. This question isn't about what the 'best postbacc' is, it's asking about what the best SMP is. In SDN, when people talk about SMPs, they mean a 1-2 year program that could help a person with a low GPA (generally 2.9<sGPA, cGPA<3.5) but a higher MCAT (30+) get into a US MD school (ANY US MD school). URM/disadvantaged status programs are excluded. I believe that's reasonably specific, and I'm ranking them in the order of helpfulness as I perceive it. Because it's so hard to find exact admission statistics for anywhere, I've separated them into general tiers. Thus you have the top tier, where a great performance in the program leads to a near-guarantee of admission to med school, then the next four, where that chance is very good, then Boston, GU and Tufts, which give you a good chance the next year (and I'm not even that sure about Tufts, but nobody has really bashed it and several people have praised it, so it's on there), then everything else, where things are kind of sketchy.

 

[DrMidlife]

In SDN, when people talk about SMPs, they mean a 1-2 year program that could help a person with a low GPA (generally 2.9<sGPA, cGPA<3.5) but a higher MCAT (30+) get into a US MD school (ANY US MD school).

That's true less than half of the time (that people know what an SMP is when they get to this forum). You're organized, and you educated yourself, and you probably read the stickies before you posted questions. You're an exception.

The only point I'm trying to make is that it's not terribly helpful to try to rank SMPs. Isn't Tulane ACP the best, since 97% go straight into Tulane MD? Oh, wait, no, it requires a MD/DO waitlist, and you can't get financial aid there. OK, so then isn't Georgetown the best, since it's the best known across the country? Oh, wait, no, only half of its grads avoid a gap year. Isn't Cincinnati the best, since it's 100% public? Oh, wait, no, they are running around 50% same-year-as-SMP acceptances since they added anatomy to the curriculum and since they got diluted with Californians. I could go on all day.

Adding a paragraph to this thread with a few program names and why they should be considered highly is fine, but if you want to provide a service, go through all 15-or-so programs that can be legitimately called SMPs and make a list of what the pros/cons are. I did this in '08, but the info changes every year.

Best of luck to you.

 

[GorgeousBorges]

That's true less than half of the time (that people know what an SMP is when they get to this forum). You're organized, and you educated yourself, and you probably read the stickies before you posted questions. You're an exception.

The only point I'm trying to make is that it's not terribly helpful to try to rank SMPs. Isn't Tulane ACP the best, since 97% go straight into Tulane MD? Oh, wait, no, it requires a MD/DO waitlist, and you can't get financial aid there. OK, so then isn't Georgetown the best, since it's the best known across the country? Oh, wait, no, only half of its grads avoid a gap year. Isn't Cincinnati the best, since it's 100% public? Oh, wait, no, they are running around 50% same-year-as-SMP acceptances since they added anatomy to the curriculum and since they got diluted with Californians. I could go on all day.

Adding a paragraph to this thread with a few program names and why they should be considered highly is fine, but if you want to provide a service, go through all 15-or-so programs that can be legitimately called SMPs and make a list of what the pros/cons are. I did this in '08, but the info changes every year.

Best of luck to you.

You're right that people do need to educate themselves, people have different needs, and everyone needs something a little bit different. I think it may be time for a new sticky.

I'm not sure if you're right about the University of Cincinnati SMP, unless there's something that I'm missing. University of Cincinnati SMP did add anatomy to the curriculum in fall 2011, but according to their own admissions statistics (which, like all SMP statistics, have to be questioned) the same-year admit rate was 69%. That's lower than the 2010 rate of 82% (and what the hell happened between 2009 and 2010?) but that could easily just be statistical noise. Granted, not everybody applied same-year, and that includes dental and DO school admissions as well (I've never heard of a Cinci SMP alum going to the Caribbean), but if anything Cincinnati's program has become more successful over time, even as it has added gross anatomy and become more Californian.

http://www.med.uc.edu/physiology/MS-success.htm

 

[common man]

You can't measure name-recognition. You can measure results. In spite of its guaranteed interview, Drexel interviews far less of its IMS students than most SMPs. Everyone at EVMS gets an interview (or nearly everyone, please be merciful on me DrMidlife). Nearly everyone who applies same-year to Cincinnati gets an interview. More than half of the RFU class gets an ACCEPTANCE to RFU, not just an interview. Half of the class at Georgetown gets an interview. So Drexel's guaranteed interview sounds a lot better than it is, and there are a lot of programs that don't guarantee anything that give you a lot more.

Also, Drexel doesn't publish its results. For programs that don't publish their results (and even for those that do), you have to go by what people have said about them. Reviews of the Drexel IMS on SDN are occasionally positive but mostly negative. For all of Drexel's 'reputation' there seem to be a large number of people on SDN who say they did well in the program and haven't been very successful even in the year after.

I don't think that the age of a program is nearly as important as you're making it.

i completely agree with your post. i really just threw out there as a food for thought. age & name recognition don't matter as much as transparent results. when i weigh in everything, i have no interest in the georgetown smp, despite that it is them most well known and oldest.

 

[uphillBattle]

So what I've gathered from this thread is that:

Cincinnati, Tulane, RFU, EVMS are good programs if you're looking to get into the host school. Better chances.

Drexel is also good if you want to get into the host school but its a 2 yr program.

GTown, BU, Tufts are well known but difficult and not a great chance of getting into host.

 

[gridguy]

So what I've gathered from this thread is that:

Cincinnati, Tulane, RFU, EVMS are good programs if you're looking to get into the host school. Better chances.

Drexel is also good if you want to get into the host school but its a 2 yr program.

GTown, BU, Tufts are well known but difficult and not a great chance of getting into host.

I think the cachet surrounding Georgetown's program (assuming you can do well) provides you the most leverage to get in elsewhere. While Georgetown only takes about 15% from the SMP class, a solid GPA there sets you up for success elsewhere.

 

[uphillBattle]

I think the cachet surrounding Georgetown's program (assuming you can do well) provides you the most leverage to get in elsewhere. While Georgetown only takes about 15% from the SMP class, a solid GPA there sets you up for success elsewhere.

What about the other programs I mentioned? An SMP from another school isn't looked upon as favorably? Are there any statistics regarding acceptance rates into other medical schools from an SMP from the list I posted?

 

[roswell66]

*Bump above - What about newer programs such as NYMC AMP? They have boasted a ~90% maturation rate by year two. Is attending an SMP with a higher level of prestige more important that the # of credit hours that you gain through medical courses? GT's SMP has you take 19/33 credits with M1 students wile the AMP at NYMC consists of 28/32 credits in medical courses.

 

[DrMidlife]

*Bump above - What about newer programs such as NYMC AMP? They have boasted a ~90% maturation rate by year two. Is attending an SMP with a higher level of prestige more important that the # of credit hours that you gain through medical courses? GT's SMP has you take 19/33 credits with M1 students wile the AMP at NYMC consists of 28/32 credits in medical courses.

That's 10x more SMP math than any med school admissions committee will ever do. "boast" and "90%" and "maturation rate" mean absolutely nothing to a med school adcom. If NYMC helps you get into med school, it will be because the rest of your app is solid and your SMP performance is solid and you interview well. Same with Gtown.

Not all med schools know what SMPs are. At a school that knows what an SMP is, not all adcoms will know what an SMP is. For adcoms who know what an SMP is, not all adcoms will have heard of all SMPs. If your buddy gets into UCI or Stonybrook from Gtown, that doesn't mean Gtown will get you into UCI or Stonybrook.

Med school admissions are complicated and a low GPA redemption story complicates things further. There are no magic beans. Any good SMP is as much magic as you're going to find. And then you still have to figure out how to get A's in really hard classes. No magic.

Best of luck to you.