Best way to describe DO to a Non-DO

[idyllic84]

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I was wondering how would you guys go about explaining folks out there who are not familiar with a DO degree - What your education/program is? One of my colleagues today was asking my plans for fall, and I mentioned DO school. Her follow up questions were like, Oh is that like a PA program? is it like PT? (when I tried telling her about OMM). She wasn't being disrespectful in anyway just trying to understand the program, and couldn't find a better way to say it other than, "its just like MD, you just study a bit more 😉"

 

[DrMidlife]

I shadowed an EM DO overnight and heard her say about 25 times "it's the same as an MD. About 15% of US physicians are DOs." I like this. People who want to take the time to learn more can ask, people who don't just get what they need.

 

[scdocusc]

I think the AOA is encouraging medical students to approach this question by not saying it is the same as an MD. I think the reasoning behind not saying this is because DO's are distinct in a different philosophy in medicine than allopathic. I would just say to a person who is curious that osteopathic medicine is based on continuity of body systems, preventative medicine, structure/function relationships (omm related), and a biopsychosocial approach to solving medical problems. If all else fails, just walk away in disgust.

 

[DrMidlife]

I think the AOA is encouraging medical students to approach this question by not saying it is the same as an MD. I think the reasoning behind not saying this is because DO's are distinct in a different philosophy in medicine than allopathic. I would just say to a person who is curious that osteopathic medicine is based on continuity of body systems, preventative medicine, structure/function relationships (omm related), and a biopsychosocial approach to solving medical problems. If all else fails, just walk away in disgust.

This distinction is COMPLETELY LOST on anybody who is not practicing, or seeking a practitioner of, OMT. I'm not saying the distinction isn't valid; I'm saying that to bring up philosophy in answering a simple, innocent question opens a can of worms.

You can't walk away from a patient in disgust because they fail to appreciate the finer points of yawn.

 

[Bond8204]

This distinction is COMPLETELY LOST on anybody who is not practicing, or seeking a practitioner of, OMT. I'm not saying the distinction isn't valid; I'm saying that to bring up philosophy in answering a simple, innocent question opens a can of worms.

You can't walk away from a patient in disgust because they fail to appreciate the finer points of yawn.

Agreed. Most people aren't looking to know the philosophical and curricular differences if they ask. They just want to know why the initials on your coat are different. If you immediately start talking about holistic medicine and "manipulation" I think you run the risk of confusing your friends/patient.

If they follow it up with a "oh...then why are there different degrees?" then I think it would be appropriate to start talking about approaching person as a whole, OMM, preventative medicine, etc. But until then "it's the same as an MD. About 15% of US physicians are DOs" is an appropriate response.

For the record, I saw a guy who was a DO over x-mas for a cough. I told him I was applying to medical school and asked him where he went. He said "UIC" which...unless I don't know something about the history of CCOM...was a blatant lie. I let it slide as I knew he probably meant CCOM but didn't want to get into what that stood for and what "osteopathic" meant. I would not condone behavior like that though.

 

[DocInProgress]

i would just say:

"it's the same as an MD except a DO learns something extra called OMM"

 

[JaggerPlate]

There are various different ways you can explain it to people the best way is the 'Same as an MD 15% ...' example or just saying 'US medical schools can either grant MD or DO degrees upon completion of med school, I went to a medical school that grants the DO degree upon completion.'

If you really want to you can get into the differences, but this would be wasted on 99% of the world. You can also always explain OMM, or refer the patient to Dr TexasTriathlete for a full explanation on the whole ninja voo doo thing.

 

[sexyman]

I think the AOA is encouraging medical students to approach this question by not saying it is the same as an MD. I think the reasoning behind not saying this is because DO's are distinct in a different philosophy in medicine than allopathic. I would just say to a person who is curious that osteopathic medicine is based on continuity of body systems, preventative medicine, structure/function relationships (omm related), and a biopsychosocial approach to solving medical problems. If all else fails, just walk away in disgust.

wow... The person would walk away in disgust before you were even able to finish your rant.

The AOA encouraging people to not say "like MDs" is ridiculous for many reasons as a side note.

And the AOA encouraging not to say "they are like MDs" is

 

[CommanderRiker]

Osteopathy is a holistic methodology to medicine that is similar to chiropractics. Empirical methods are used, though not as in-depth as allopathic medicine.

 

[jpatzi]

Osteopathy is a holistic methodology to medicine that is similar to chiropractics. Empirical methods are used, though
not as in-depth as allopathic medicine.

I don't know if this person is a DO student or not, but as a first year DO student, I can honestly say that the main difference, as already mentioned, is that DO's have on extra technique, OMM.

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

Close this thread before Texas Tri chimes in with:

doc Oc doing advance IT spread.

 

[Boner]

Close this thread before Texas Tri chimes in with:

doc Oc doing advance IT spread.

More than 10 mins have passed without a response from Texas Tri - the blackberry network must be down or something 🙄

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

More than 10 mins have passed without a response from Texas Tri - the blackberry network must be down or something 🙄

10 min!, I hope hes ok

 

[hermit]

I shadowed an EM DO overnight and heard her say about 25 times "it's the same as an MD. About 15% of US physicians are DOs."

Blasphemy! The party line in this forum is that 1 in 100 patients will notice that their DO doc is somehow "different."

 

[ocwaveoc]

I shadowed an EM DO overnight and heard her say about 25 times "it's the same as an MD. About 15% of US physicians are DOs." I like this. People who want to take the time to learn more can ask, people who don't just get what they need.

Wow 25 times in a day? That's a lot!
So, do DOs get asked multiple times a day what the initials stand for and what they mean?

I sometimes wondered why DO's coats say "Dr. John Smith" rather than John Smith D.O." I went to see a physician a couple of days ago who happened to be a grad of LECOM. His coat said "Dr. XYZ". Is it because they just don't want to deal with the same questions day after day and just practice what is important...medicine?
If so, I don't blame 'em.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Osteopathy is a holistic methodology to medicine that is similar to chiropractics. Empirical methods are used, though not as in-depth as allopathic medicine.

I am SOOOOOOOO glad this guy's account is at LEAST finally on hold. Apparently he's a student at PCOM but all he ever does is bash DOs via his annoying Star Trek theme.

 

[MossPoh]

I'm like a doctor in that I'm a doctor and I do everything doctors do, such as doctoring and other doctor stuff.

 

[MossPoh]

I am SOOOOOOOO glad this guy's account is at LEAST finally on hold. Apparently he's a student at PCOM but all he ever does is bash DOs via his annoying Star Trek theme.

Not like anyone can take what he says seriously. I don't think I have ever taken a star trek fan seriously.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Not like anyone can take what he says seriously. I don't think I have ever taken a star trek fan seriously.

Hahahah ... good point

 

[DrMidlife]

Blasphemy! The party line in this forum is that 1 in 100 patients will notice that their DO doc is somehow "different."

Wow 25 times in a day? That's a lot!
So, do DOs get asked multiple times a day what the initials stand for and what they mean?

A 1:100 ratio is probably correct across specialties.

If you work in a hospital or managed facility, you aren't likely to have control over what goes on your ID badge.

ER doctors are strangers. A stranger starts stitching up your kid's split eyebrow at 3 am, you ask questions, particularly if you chose the private, non-trauma ER instead of the level 1 trauma ER where the D&Ds go (and where the fun is, really, but that's a different story).

By contrast, I shadowed a DO orthopod for 3 days and never once heard anybody ask him what a DO is, even though it's right there on his door, his biz card, Rx pad, etc. So that's zero asks over ~60 patients. He said he gets asked about once a week.

I live in a part of the country that has about 4% DO penetration, btw. People who know what NPs and PAs are don't know what a DO is here.

 

[MossPoh]

Seriously, when a person is in misery or needs help, you could probably throw a deaf, blind, dumb, mentally handicapped person with no hands in there, and as long as they have a white coat, the patient will be happy and not ask questions. I walked in to several rooms wearing scrubs, no ID or anything, and they thought I was a frickin doctor...of course, I reduced a fracture in the other room, so that probably kind of mislead them. If scrubs is all it takes, do you think the majority of people are going to be THAT attentive to two little letters that may or may not be after the name?

 

[JaggerPlate]

Seriously, when a person is in misery or needs help, you could probably throw a deaf, blind, dumb, mentally handicapped person with no hands in there, and as long as they have a white coat, the patient will be happy and not ask questions. I walked in to several rooms wearing scrubs, no ID or anything, and they thought I was a frickin doctor...of course, I reduced a fracture in the other room, so that probably kind of mislead them. If scrubs is all it takes, do you think the majority of people are going to be THAT attentive to two little letters that may or may not be after the name?

HAHAHA ... too true. One time when I was volunteering in an ER a few years ago I transported a patient with an obvious deviated septum to x-ray while wearing scrubs and him and his girlfriend were drilling me over and over with questions even though I kept saying I was just a volunteer. Even after I said that they still asked my opinion about if his nose was broken (and of course I did NOT give medical advice whatsoever).

 

[scpod]

....I kept saying I was just a volunteer.....

Dude, when the triage waiting room is full of people who've been there for 10 or 12 hours, I've seen the janitor come through on his way to clean up some vomit, pushing a mop bucket, and people start asking him when they are going to be seen and what he thinks is wrong with them. Sick people think everyone is a "doctor."

 

[HerrTex]

I don't know if this has happened to any one else but it kind of annoys me when I have to explain to a fellow pre-med what a DO is. I have had to do it a couple of times and two of weeks ago I had to explain it to a girl I was volunteering with who was applying next year. In my head I was like come on are you serious, what would happen if she interviews with a DO and he asks her if she knows the difference?

 

[Flushot]

What's the latest statistic about how many pre-meds are interested in D.O. schools right off the bat? Is there one?

I'd like to see that happen in an interview at an allo school. I could imagine it ending up on SDN as one of the most difficult questions you were asked.

And you guys got to wear scrubs/labcoats while volunteering? Lucky! 😱 Most of the time I wore some silly vest or business casual. Granted, now I can wear a labcoat, but it is much less frequent.

 

[Pansit]

I usually say, it's just like an MD but with extra training in MANUAL MEDICINE. People seem to understand what that means more that when you say OMM. Manual medicine is just a more hands on approach to musculoskeletal problems.

 

[tlvuong4]

I don't know if this has happened to any one else but it kind of annoys me when I have to explain to a fellow pre-med what a DO is. I have had to do it a couple of times and two of weeks ago I had to explain it to a girl I was volunteering with who was applying next year. In my head I was like come on are you serious, what would happen if she interviews with a DO and he asks her if she knows the difference?

well if she is interviewing at an allo school I doubt that they would ask her a question about DO's.

 

[Shaniqua14]

The doc I shadow says this.... although he just says he says it... I've never seen a single patient ask him about it.

"I'm not just a medical doctor (MD), I'm an osteopathic medical doctor (DO). Same thing."

Most patients just need to hear that -- if they are in for an allergic rhinitis they could care less about the history of OMM... they just want their Zyrtec or Singulair (sp?) 🙂

Actually... a reason why patients don't ask him, is likely because in all his patient rooms (he's a pediatrician) he has 2 things framed on the wall-- "What is an osteopathic medical doctor" and "The Osteopathic Oath." Patients &/or their parents can read them.

Finally... to mention Texas Tri -- the "How to explain DO?" reminds me of a post of his from waaaay long ago. Just say "Oh, it stands for Derm Only."

It would make me smile to think of ALL osteopathic medical doctors using their OMM knowledge to specialize in the uber-competitive field of warts and zits 😉

 

[MossPoh]

What's the latest statistic about how many pre-meds are interested in D.O. schools right off the bat? Is there one?

I'd like to see that happen in an interview at an allo school. I could imagine it ending up on SDN as one of the most difficult questions you were asked.

And you guys got to wear scrubs/labcoats while volunteering? Lucky! 😱 Most of the time I wore some silly vest or business casual. Granted, now I can wear a labcoat, but it is much less frequent.

I had a fairly unique position when shadowing. My dad is/was a doctor at a fairly small hospital. Everyone kind of knows everyone deal. I was treated a little differently than the average person shadowing. It was good and bad, they also expected me to know a little more sometimes. But yes, I got to wear scrubs and some docs liked me to wear a lab coat simply because it seems to make patients more comfortable. There was a girl from one osteopathic school there, can't remember which one, following one of the guys around and he'd sit there drilling us both with questions...so I've already been pimped to some degree. 😛 The girl was smart, but she lacked some common sense it seemed.

I got to do some stuff that many wouldn't get to do as premeds. Reduced a fracture, used doppler to check for pulse, ultrasound, take some histories, hold retractors, sign lots and lots and lots of charts, fix a dislocated shoulder, numb someone up and insert a NG tube. If it was a slow day in the ER one of the guys would give in depth explanations as to WHY the things were happening and quiz me on various physiological things.

Most people just kind of watch, I was treated like a bit more of a med student, but that stems from pretty much growing up in the medical world. My mom was a rads tech, dad radiologist, sister and mom both had cancer, blah blah blah. I spent A LOT of time sitting around with my dad watching him read films or just sitting in the lounge eating the doctors' muffins. This was also why I was very hesitant to want medical school. It is a bit of a double edged sword. If I do something it is not going to be because my dad wanted me to do it or any of that crap. I also know how much work is involved. I gave a lot of other things a legit shot before coming back around....just realized this is the ONLY thing I stand a shot at being happy with.

Anyway, I always knew what osteopathic medicine was, but that wasn't always a positive thing. My dad is part of the "old guard" and used to view DO schools as inferior. When he went to school in the 60s they pretty much were....they are how we look at the mid to low level Caribbean now. It took a number of properly trained DOs to change his mind. Now he is perfectly cool with it.

 

[Nice Pipes]

Short Answer: D.O. = physician who has learned OMM, of which a majority rarely practice (as per D.O. survey responses).

Longer Answer: M.D.s take the USMLE. D.O.s take the COMLEX and/or USMLE. Those who take the COMLEX are evaluated similar to the USMLE with the following differences in the COMLEX (according to the COMLEX description): greater focus on extremity anatomy, microbiology, neurology, OMM, and pharmacology; lesser focus on: biochemistry, biostatistics, genetics, and molecular biology.

After passing the COMLEX and/or USMLE, a D.O. can apply to allopathic and osteopathic residencies. The D.O. then completes their allopathic or osteopathic residency. They have the same practice rights.

Those are the differences. The AOA tries hard to distinguish differences. It's hard to for me to really show a difference aside from those.

 

[Natatiap]

I didnt read the whole thread so I dont know if someone wrote this or not but I just describe the four Tenet's of Osteopathic Medicine to them and then add in the whole person approach to medicine. If you want to be really impressive give an example of each. I dont do much explaining though, its not a question I get asked a lot. My family and friends are just happy I'm in medical school.


1. The body is a unit; the person is a unit of body, mind and spirit.

2. The bod is capable of self-regulation, self-healing and health maintenance.

3. Structure and function are reciprocally interrelated.

4. Rational treatment is based upon an understanding of the basic principles of body unity, self-regulation, and the interrelationship of structure and function.

 

[FutureDoc18]

I shadowed an EM DO overnight and heard her say about 25 times "it's the same as an MD. About 15% of US physicians are DOs." I like this. People who want to take the time to learn more can ask, people who don't just get what they need.

Then, I would follow up with the question " If a DO is the same as an MD, what's the point of being a DO"? That statement doesn't answer the person's question, so it would be best to come up with another way of explaining.

 

[Bond8204]

Then, I would follow up with the question " If a DO is the same as an MD, what's the point of being a DO"? That statement doesn't answer the person's question, so it would be best to come up with another way of explaining.

Wrong. As has been said on this thread several times already, most people don't really need an answer after being told this. Going into greater detail can alienate/confuse your patients/friends etc. If they ask why there's two degrees after you give a basic answer then it would be appropriate to go into greater detail (though again, briefly). I think you would find it exhausting to go into an in depth explanation about differences in philosophy and curriculum every time somebody comments on the initials following your name.

Dude, when the triage waiting room is full of people who've been there for 10 or 12 hours, I've seen the janitor come through on his way to clean up some vomit, pushing a mop bucket, and people start asking him when they are going to be seen and what he thinks is wrong with them. Sick people think everyone is a "doctor."

[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=1OhoGexBn6M[/YOUTUBE]

Couldn't find the clip where he says "Look, I may just be a Janitor, but you need surgery."

 

[RySerr21]

HAHAHA ... too true. One time when I was volunteering in an ER a few years ago I transported a patient with an obvious deviated septum to x-ray while wearing scrubs and him and his girlfriend were drilling me over and over with questions even though I kept saying I was just a volunteer. Even after I said that they still asked my opinion about if his nose was broken (and of course I did NOT give medical advice whatsoever).

ha. thats exactly why the hosptial i volunteered at forbid any volunteer to where scrubs. we had to wear these ugly red shirts and tan pants.

 

[RockfordWF]

I was wondering how would you guys go about explaining folks out there who are not familiar with a DO degree - What your education/program is? One of my colleagues today was asking my plans for fall, and I mentioned DO school. Her follow up questions were like, Oh is that like a PA program? is it like PT? (when I tried telling her about OMM). She wasn't being disrespectful in anyway just trying to understand the program, and couldn't find a better way to say it other than, "its just like MD, you just study a bit more 😉"

The best way to explain it:

BA in Education
BS in Education

-either are required to become a licensed teacher
-the core curriculum is the same
-the BA requires more arts (OMM) than the BS, but both are equivalent degrees

-in the end, you are a licensed teacher---noone asks if you got a BA or BS

 

[JaggerPlate]

The best way to explain it:

BA in Education
BS in Education

-either are required to become a licensed teacher
-the core curriculum is the same
-the BA requires more arts (OMM) than the BS, but both are equivalent degrees

-in the end, you are a licensed teacher---noone asks if you got a BA or BS

I loved the BS vs BA example until I dropped it one day in the Osteo forum and was nailed ... I'd still use it though👍

 

[RockfordWF]

I loved the BS vs BA example until I dropped it one day in the Osteo forum and was nailed ... I'd still use it though👍

Why were you nailed? What was their argument?

 

[TexasTriathlete]

DO's are seven feet tall, and if they were here, they'd consume the English with fireballs from their eyes, and bolts of lightning from their arse.

 

[ATrain]

DO's are seven feet tall, and if they were here, they'd consume the English with fireballs from their eyes, and bolts of lightning from their arse.

...perhaps by extension the members of the AOA canno' agree on the color a' ****e?

 

[gasapple]

I'll crush you like a watum.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Why were you nailed? What was their argument?

It was all just SDN e-penis flexing. I used a BS in econ vs a BA in econ example (I had an econ prof who had a BS and my school offered a BA and she talked about it one day) and although I was SIMPLY trying to make a point people started going off about a chem BA vs BS (which I never even mentioned) and how you have to take many more difficult classes for a BS and how a BA was a watered down version blah blah blah. The analogy is solid, people we just trying to argue because we are on SDN!!

 

[RockfordWF]

It was all just SDN e-penis flexing. I used a BS in econ vs a BA in econ example (I had an econ prof who had a BS and my school offered a BA and she talked about it one day) and although I was SIMPLY trying to make a point people started going off about a chem BA vs BS (which I never even mentioned) and how you have to take many more difficult classes for a BS and how a BA was a watered down version blah blah blah. The analogy is solid, people we just trying to argue because we are on SDN!!

The funny thing is---both get you a chemistry degree, so who cares?

 

[gasapple]

It was all just SDN e-penis flexing.

 

[BobBarker]

Just tell them it means "doctor of". If you are an orthopedic surgeon it means "doctor of orthopedic surgery", if you are a fam med doc, it means "doctor of family medicine". That's what I told my 12 year old brother. I'm not joking.

 

[sexyman]

I had a waitress ask me today (she asked me if I went to the college on my sweatshirt and then what I am doing now). I think she was more confused after I botched the whole DO explanation lol.

Weird thing is....when I said "I am going to Medical school in August." She asked "Youre are going to be an MD?" So I figured she must know what a DO was...apparently not.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

So you used the "I'm going to be a doctor" line on the waitress, and you're posting here now...

Did you at least get her digits?

 

[prionsRbad]

It was all just SDN e-penis flexing. I used a BS in econ vs a BA in econ example (I had an econ prof who had a BS and my school offered a BA and she talked about it one day) and although I was SIMPLY trying to make a point people started going off about a chem BA vs BS (which I never even mentioned) and how you have to take many more difficult classes for a BS and how a BA was a watered down version blah blah blah. The analogy is solid, people we just trying to argue because we are on SDN!!

I remember reading that thread . . . I think it was in the Osteo board, which can be pretty fierce sometimes!

I like the analogy and I use it all the time too. 👍

 

[JaggerPlate]

I had a waitress ask me today (she asked me if I went to the college on my sweatshirt and then what I am doing now). I think she was more confused after I botched the whole DO explanation lol.

Weird thing is....when I said "I am going to Medical school in August." She asked "Youre are going to be an MD?" So I figured she must know what a DO was...apparently not.

a. That's funny that the waitress went ahead and asked the MD question and wasn't just satisfied with 'medical school.'

b. The explanation probably confused her too much to get the digits dropped ... though Tex does make a good point, you should explain yourself.

c. Every time I see your avatar I want to watch American Psycho ... and I have work to do !!!!

 

[sexyman]

So you used the "I'm going to be a doctor" line on the waitress, and you're posting here now...

Did you at least get her digits?

ha she was about 60 years old. So no I did not go for the digits.

 

[Jamers]

I was wondering how would you guys go about explaining folks out there who are not familiar with a DO degree - What your education/program is? One of my colleagues today was asking my plans for fall, and I mentioned DO school. Her follow up questions were like, Oh is that like a PA program? is it like PT? (when I tried telling her about OMM). She wasn't being disrespectful in anyway just trying to understand the program, and couldn't find a better way to say it other than, "its just like MD, you just study a bit more 😉"

I'm Dr. Jamers, I will be your physician today.

End of story.