BIDMC/Northwestern Step 1 Scores

[Macguy86]

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[Zetterberg07]

I haven't applied yet but the impression that I get from reading these boards is that the name of your med school, whether or not you are AOA and whether or not you honored medicine will make a huge difference in your competitiveness. I would guess that 230 gives you a decent shot if you have most of the above, if not you probably need higher.

 

[obiwan]

I haven't applied yet but the impression that I get from reading these boards is that the name of your med school, whether or not you are AOA and whether or not you honored medicine will make a huge difference in your competitiveness. I would guess that 230 gives you a decent shot if you have most of the above, if not you probably need higher.

Medicine for whatever reason is very particular about reputation and regionality of your medical school particularly if you don't to places like UCSF or WashU and definitely AOA status and clinical honors are huge factors for these places.... but yeah a low step will definitely hurt you if you want to go to the ivory towers

if you really want to stay in boston for residency and fellowship, then BU and Tufts aren't too shabby to consider for medicine especially if BWH and MGH don't work out but otherwise, there are many many programs that will give you equally good training and have the national reputation to end up back in boston for cards that will not be as competitive as a place like BIDMC just because its not in boston... BIDMC while a harvard program is no where near as strong as its 2 counterparts and there are many programs that I would think directors would consider with more esteem

 

[Phineus]

medicine for whatever reason is very particular about reputation and regionality of your medical school particularly if you don't to places like ucsf or washu and definitely aoa status and clinical honors are huge factors for these places.... But yeah a low step will definitely hurt you if you want to go to the ivory towers

if you really want to stay in boston for residency and fellowship, then bu and tufts aren't too shabby to consider for medicine especially if bwh and mgh don't work out but otherwise, there are many many programs that will give you equally good training and have the national reputation to end up back in boston for cards that will not be as competitive as a place like bidmc just because its not in boston... Bidmc while a harvard program is no where near as strong as its 2 counterparts and there are many programs that i would think directors would consider with more esteem

utsw!

 

[Adelaide Nick]

http://www.gme.northwestern.edu/programdirectors/pdfs/Start 09 GME Annual Report 08-09.pdf

All things Northwestern McGaw for Residency Programs...including average Step 1 scores too for residents in their programs. For IM, average step 1 is 231 and step 2 is 246.

 

[rxexercise]

As for their preliminary medicine spots, they must take into account your medical school name and eventual career choice. I had a 250+ step I, 260+ step II and was jr year aoa with a good app. I didn't even get an interview. I go to an average medical school and I'm going into PM&R. Not sure if that had anything to do with it.

 

[obiwan]

As for their preliminary medicine spots, they must take into account your medical school name and eventual career choice. I had a 250+ step I, 260+ step II and was jr year aoa with a good app. I didn't even get an interview. I go to an average medical school and I'm going into PM&R. Not sure if that had anything to do with it.

applied to northwestern categorical with step 1/2 scores in the 250ish range, senior AOA, honors in medicine clerkship and subI from a lower tierish school and didn't get an interview... I was pretty shocked at that

 

[dragonfly99]

Sometimes it is who you know, not what you know. Perhaps Northwestern is that type of place. Or perhaps they have very specific things they are looking for (other than high step scores). The place may be getting more and more competitive with the problems that U of Chicago has been having.

 

[Speculatrix]

Sometimes it is who you know, not what you know. Perhaps Northwestern is that type of place. Or perhaps they have very specific things they are looking for (other than high step scores). The place may be getting more and more competitive with the problems that U of Chicago has been having.

I think this is unlikely. Northwestern has a significantly larger class, and the University of Chicago interviews few people (they openly say so in their interview invitation, if I remember correctly, to make their interview days smaller and more intimate). Northwestern seems like the much more cush of the two, and it might be a great experience treating a lot of Oprah-types at that fancy hospital... NMH is really nice and one of the tallest (!) structures I saw on the interview trail. If anything, I perceived an inverse correlation between experience + desire to treat an indigent patient population with invitations/matches at NW. I could be incorrect. The fellowship match didn't seem extraordinary though. This isn't the first time I've heard that NW rejected ultra-high scorers - they are more likely concerned with prestige, viz AOA/med school rep/research/etc. Besides, on a residency website you can't list your intern class board scores, but you can list their medical school, advanced degrees, other achievements.

Yes, I think it is really important who you know, how connected you are, and what you will offer to the residency program, especially in terms of research.

To the original poster, if you are in a top 10-20 school with <240, I think you will still be interviewed at BI with relatively little difficulty. You will still be placed in a group amongst your peers, so if you are the 15th highest board scorer to apply to BI from your school, how can you possibly expect to be interviewed unless you're a star otherwise? Not to scare you, but I think board scores are increasing every year. My feeling is that this is due to better preparation and wider availability of electronic practice materials. It may take a few years for residencies to recognize the diminished utility of board scores in light of this (and place more emphasis on the rest of the CV), OR for board scores to come back down (by an electronic re-centering). Good luck on Step 1.

If you want an interview and don't do as well on step 1, strongly consider doing an away rotation and making a good impression on ER (the PD) for a guaranteed interview. The 3 Harvard programs do wait for the Dean's letter to come out, and it is ~7-10d after that they start to invite en masse. My impression is that they sit around and collect applications, sort them, and then very quickly put a final stamp s/p Dean's letter. You may be very disappointed at a rejection if you don't guarantee your interview with an audition rotation or heavy insider assistance. Even BI, which was notorious in previous years for sending out invites through till January, seemed to finish all its invite business within a month this year.

Apply early and you will be rewarded with a great program that will get you a top cardiology spot. Great places, like Cornell, send rolling invites before MSPE, and their fellowship matches were still spectacular.

 

[Macguy86]

thanks! im from a top 30 school with a good rep. They actually did list their board scores on their website for the incoming class... 235.
i did not realize it was this competitive for top places in Internal Medicine!
For gods sake derm avg score is 240. Well ill shoot for the highest score I can.
Hmm seems like you are competing against your class, guess its time to find a way to stand out.

With NW I actually like the fact that their residency is "cush" or that they focus on making sure residents have a life outside of work. honestly, i am getting sick of studying and dedicating everything to medicine. it never gets easier, i would rather enjoy my time in residency and maybe not be the 'best' physician by going to Harvard. everyone has different priorities, im realizing this as I watch all my friends go out and live their lives. especially with the way medicine in going, declining salaries, malpractice issues, government 'take over', increase in demand=more work...i honestly just do not want to live to work. but everyone has different priorities, its important to get good training and be a good physician. its easy to get caught up in going to the 'best' place to train at

 

[Pkboi24]

thanks! im from a top 30 school with a good rep. They actually did list their board scores on their website for the incoming class... 235.
i did not realize it was this competitive for top places in Internal Medicine!
For gods sake derm avg score is 240. Well ill shoot for the highest score I can.
Hmm seems like you are competing against your class, guess its time to find a way to stand out.

With NW I actually like the fact that their residency is "cush" or that they focus on making sure residents have a life outside of work. honestly, i am getting sick of studying and dedicating everything to medicine. it never gets easier, i would rather enjoy my time in residency and maybe not be the 'best' physician by going to Harvard. everyone has different priorities, im realizing this as I watch all my friends go out and live their lives. especially with the way medicine in going, declining salaries, malpractice issues, government 'take over', increase in demand=more work...i honestly just do not want to live to work. but everyone has different priorities, its important to get good training and be a good physician. its easy to get caught up in going to the 'best' place to train at

It's important o keep in mind the size of the applicant pool for particular residencies. Internal medicine has thousands applying so it's step 1 avg will be close to the general avg of everyone who took the test. Derm has a much smaller applicant pool and therefore, even though the avg is only 240, it's likely that the Standard Deviation is much smaller.

 

[ResidentMD]

I think this is unlikely. Northwestern has a significantly larger class, and the University of Chicago interviews few people (they openly say so in their interview invitation, if I remember correctly, to make their interview days smaller and more intimate). Northwestern seems like the much more cush of the two, and it might be a great experience treating a lot of Oprah-types at that fancy hospital... NMH is really nice and one of the tallest (!) structures I saw on the interview trail. If anything, I perceived an inverse correlation between experience + desire to treat an indigent patient population with invitations/matches at NW. I could be incorrect. The fellowship match didn't seem extraordinary though. This isn't the first time I've heard that NW rejected ultra-high scorers - they are more likely concerned with prestige, viz AOA/med school rep/research/etc. Besides, on a residency website you can't list your intern class board scores, but you can list their medical school, advanced degrees, other achievements.

Yes, I think it is really important who you know, how connected you are, and what you will offer to the residency program, especially in terms of research.

To the original poster, if you are in a top 10-20 school with <240, I think you will still be interviewed at BI with relatively little difficulty. You will still be placed in a group amongst your peers, so if you are the 15th highest board scorer to apply to BI from your school, how can you possibly expect to be interviewed unless you're a star otherwise? Not to scare you, but I think board scores are increasing every year. My feeling is that this is due to better preparation and wider availability of electronic practice materials. It may take a few years for residencies to recognize the diminished utility of board scores in light of this (and place more emphasis on the rest of the CV), OR for board scores to come back down (by an electronic re-centering). Good luck on Step 1.

If you want an interview and don't do as well on step 1, strongly consider doing an away rotation and making a good impression on ER (the PD) for a guaranteed interview. The 3 Harvard programs do wait for the Dean's letter to come out, and it is ~7-10d after that they start to invite en masse. My impression is that they sit around and collect applications, sort them, and then very quickly put a final stamp s/p Dean's letter. You may be very disappointed at a rejection if you don't guarantee your interview with an audition rotation or heavy insider assistance. Even BI, which was notorious in previous years for sending out invites through till January, seemed to finish all its invite business within a month this year.

Apply early and you will be rewarded with a great program that will get you a top cardiology spot. Great places, like Cornell, send rolling invites before MSPE, and their fellowship matches were still spectacular.

I really, really liked this post. Kind of reminds you what SDN is truly for 👍

 

[SuperFly123]

Sometimes it is who you know, not what you know. Perhaps Northwestern is that type of place. Or perhaps they have very specific things they are looking for (other than high step scores). The place may be getting more and more competitive with the problems that U of Chicago has been having.

I do indeed think NU is becoming more competitive - likely not at the expense of UChicago - but mostly as their "cush" reputation is gaining in popularity as lifestyle is mattering more. NU's step 1 average for the incoming class is 235. UChicago's is ~240 Each programs probably attracts a very different crowd. UChicago is very academic, research focused, and less cush while NU seems to be less academic/research intense, has more private patients, and is known to be a cush program. The "problems" of UChicago aren't really relevant any more. I think there were some significant concerns about the restructuring/firing employees last year but the storm is over. They are building a new $700M hospital pavilion, had the strongest fiscal year in quite some time, and have expanded their community initiatives.

To the OP - I wouldn't set your heart on any particular program as your opinion could change significantly during the interview season. There are many programs that will provide you with a good work-life balance but a lot is up to the way your handle your time. You could go to NU and have a very intense experience (by your own doing) or you could go to Columbia (known to be intense...just using it as an example) and balance your time wisely and have a great work-life balance.

 

[Speculatrix]

I do indeed think NU is becoming more competitive - likely not at the expense of UChicago - but mostly as their "cush" reputation is gaining in popularity as lifestyle is mattering more. NU's step 1 average for the incoming class is 235. UChicago's is ~240 Each programs probably attracts a very different crowd. UChicago is very academic, research focused, and less cush while NU seems to be less academic/research intense, has more private patients, and is known to be a cush program. The "problems" of UChicago aren't really relevant any more. I think there were some significant concerns about the restructuring/firing employees last year but the storm is over. They are building a new $700M hospital pavilion, had the strongest fiscal year in quite some time, and have expanded their community initiatives.

To the OP - I wouldn't set your heart on any particular program as your opinion could change significantly during the interview season. There are many programs that will provide you with a good work-life balance but a lot is up to the way your handle your time. You could go to NU and have a very intense experience (by your own doing) or you could go to Columbia (known to be intense...just using it as an example) and balance your time wisely and have a great work-life balance.

Yes, I fully agree. I think NW is better if you wish to build a practice right away in Chicago, as you will have a cadre of elite patients at your disposal. Michigan Ave networking should be much easier at this program. However, if an academic career is important to you, UC is hands-down superior - in their powerpoint, I remember they showed how many IM program directors they produce (including NW's, which I thought was hilarious). Overall, as nice/friendly of an interview day as BWH. Only negative was the relative shortage of bread and butter, although I think they said they made up for it with their MacNeal (?) hospital rotations.