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briansle

Hi, I'm in a real bad spot here. I was wondering whether or not to drop my biochemistry class with a W. Currently I'm looking a getting a C. Overall my GPA is 3.47 my sci is around 3.3, I have no C's yet... and I've taken gen chem, gen bio, o-chemI, molecular bio. This semester the only two science classes I'm taking are o-chem II and biochem. Biochem this semester is tough because my school's bio department is making all these weird changes, many students who took it last year says it wasn't like this.
So would this C screw my chances, or would a W look even worse? What would you do?
 

3rdMolarRoller

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A "C" would not kill you.

A "W" will not look good at all. 100 times worse then a "C". Take the "C" and live with it bec its not bad. And since its in a hard class, the adcom should understand. If it was English comp...well thats another story!
 
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dr_benj

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Take the C....its not as bad as you think. I had 2 C's in organic chemistry and still got in multiple places with a GPA much lower than yours.
 

grettlin2

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If you feel frustrated, just drop it. Having less than 3 Ws does not mean anything. I have 2 Ws, and no one asked me about this in my 11 interviews. Don't worry.

I think the most important thing is to keep your GPA high. Biochem is not a requirement in many schools, except some. As long as you complete all pre-requisite, have good DAT score, and have high GPA, then you will get in.

It might happen that computers would move you into "another" category if you do not meet a certain GPA. At that time, you don't even have the chance to explain your GPA. In my opinion, high GPA is the most important principle.
 

3rdMolarRoller

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I advise against dropping bec a "W" might be a red flag. The Adcom will not know that you had a "C" when you dropped, they might think you had an "F" ( unless your school gives "WP" for withdrawl passing and "WF" withdrawl failing).

Biochem, required or not for admissions, is a class you will take in D-school. If you can't cut it at an undergrad level (them seeing a "W"), what would make them think that you could cut it at a docterate level???

your GPA will not suffer much at all with only one "C". Think about, you probably have 90+ credits, a 4 credit class will not put a big hurt on it.

Stay and take the class and finish with a C!!!

Trust me!
 

JRogoff

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I agree, take the C. In my biochem class i had a C average and ended up with a B. So you never know how the curve can treat you.
 
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briansle

Wow thanks for the replies guys
Grettlin and Brocnizer, you guys made such good points on both sides of the issue, that I'm still having trouble deciding whose advice to follow!!! Can you two reach a concensus for me?j/k

Grettlin I see that you go to USCSD, well I'm actually an undergrad at USC and the biology dept here is seriously confused. They've changed textbooks, added lab, and just did all sorts of things starting my semester, so I've had bad luck. My school advisors, don't know anything so they're really no help.

I really don't want to drop the class, because I've put in so much time and effort into it already, plus my pride would get squashed. But like Grettlin said, GPA is most important and I'm only a sophmore so a C would weigh heavily in to my GPA i suppose. I just dunno which way to turn. I mean it seems like everybody wants to be a dentist and the admissions seem to become more like medical school admissions every year. So i suppose I should try to maintain the highest GPA possible? I can always explain a W right?
 

preludexl

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Originally posted by briansle
Wow thanks for the replies guys
Grettlin and Brocnizer, you guys made such good points on both sides of the issue, that I'm still having trouble deciding whose advice to follow!!! Can you two reach a concensus for me?j/k

Grettlin I see that you go to USCSD, well I'm actually an undergrad at USC and the biology dept here is seriously confused. They've changed textbooks, added lab, and just did all sorts of things starting my semester, so I've had bad luck. My school advisors, don't know anything so they're really no help.

I really don't want to drop the class, because I've put in so much time and effort into it already, plus my pride would get squashed. But like Grettlin said, GPA is most important and I'm only a sophmore so a C would weigh heavily in to my GPA i suppose. I just dunno which way to turn. I mean it seems like everybody wants to be a dentist and the admissions seem to become more like medical school admissions every year. So i suppose I should try to maintain the highest GPA possible? I can always explain a W right?

Hehe, I'm always amazed at the long answers. Drop the damn class and dont look back. If you never had a C, a W wont signify an F. You can explain a W, and keep your GPA from falling. A C wont matter when you are at the end of 3rd or 4th year with lots of credits under your belt; but a 2.0 averaged to a 2nd year will bring your GPA down. Next time drop before the W comes into play. Protect your GPA at all costs.
 

scandalouslj

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I agree I think I had 4 W's and nobody cared. Penn the school I got into asked me to explain it as a standard Question on the secondary, but I dont think anyone even looked at it. Drop it take it again next year and get an A or B and no one will ask anything, esp is its your first one.
 

aphistis

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Originally posted by preludexl
Hehe, I'm always amazed at the long answers. Drop the damn class and dont look back. If you never had a C, a W wont signify an F. You can explain a W, and keep your GPA from falling. A C wont matter when you are at the end of 3rd or 4th year with lots of credits under your belt; but a 2.0 averaged to a 2nd year will bring your GPA down. Next time drop before the W comes into play. Protect your GPA at all costs.
Explain it how?

"You see, guys, I really wasn't doing all that well in the class despite my efforts, and I wanted to preserve my GPA at all cost. I'm sure you understand."

I won't advise either way, but be ready to answer for a W. Plenty of applicants put W's on their transcript to save their GPA, and your reason for withdrawing will become very transparent if you can't gin up a worthwhile justification for dropping the course. Maybe you'll still end up ahead, but maybe you won't.
 
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briansle

yea, I'm definitely going to drop this class for a W if I can't raise it to a B. I have to protect my GPA at all costs. I just calculated that my GPA would falter from a 3.47 to a 3.36 and my sci would drop from 3.3 to 3.18 if I take a C in Biochem. I'm only a sophmore so my GPA gets rocked. I know a W in Bio Chem is real bad but I think its the lesser of two evils.
 

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I'd go with the C. If you really are worried about it, re-take an upper level bchem course to show adcoms that you can handle the work.

Ws are for Wussies:laugh:
 
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briansle

Originally posted by Dentaldream
I'd go with the C. If you really are worried about it, re-take an upper level bchem course to show adcoms that you can handle the work.

Ws are for Wussies:laugh:

easy for you to say, you're already in dental school.
 

grettlin2

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It seems you are very interested in dentistry. I just tried to help you by telling you my own experience (same as other people answered your question) and to elimite your anxiety about this problem.
Any school will produce excellent students. The only way to solve your problem is:
1. Drop the course which you think it will hurt your GPA.
2. Ask friends before you decide to take any professor's course. Try to avoid W afterward.

The above two points might be too subjective. Just my opinions. Hope it helps you make any decision.:)
 

DrNo2000

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W?s don?t look very appealing to anyone (specially when you have TOO many of them). But, you can always make them look better by re-taking the course and doing good the second time around. I got W?s in two of my important biology classes. When I took them again, I worked a lot harder and managed to get an A in one and B+ in the other. This way at least, I was able to demonstrate that my weakness in those classes wasn?t b/c I was getting an F or simply b/c I can?t handle the load. My point is that a W can be explained and improved a lot easier than a C. If I hadn?t dropped those classes I probably would have ended up with two C?s on my transcript and a lot lower GPA.

Don?t forget, the first thing that any dental school looks at on your application is your GPA and DAT scores. Keep them as high as you can. Ive gone to 4 interviews and have been accepted to all 4 of them. None of the interviewers asked me anything about my W's.


As grettlin2 mentioned, try to search on the professors before you take their classes so you won?t have to deal with this again. If you do end up in a class like this in the future try to drop before the W deadline. Although I?m encouraging you to drop this class, I must tell you that TOO many W?s never look good. Try to keep them to the minimum.

I hope this helped. Good luck!
 
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briansle

Thanks DrNo2002, I will definitely take your advice, also problem was, this professor was considered easy since he just recycled his tests, but this year he got in trouble for doing that and decided to come up with extremely ambiguous tests.

I mean one question basically wanted us to draw an enzyme microenvironment using cysteine. The answer would be to draw the catalytic triad of chymotrypsin, but the stupid thing is there is no cysteine residue in chymotypsin, only ser, his, and asp, so basically we had to make up our own enzyme. I mean if he had just asked us to draw the catalytic triad, it would have been clear. He likes to play word games.

A 175pt test, with only 8 questions. All of them nothing like his lecture material. I mean this is the bs I have to put up with at USC. I should have gone to a UC.:(
 

preludexl

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Originally posted by aphistis
Explain it how?

"You see, guys, I really wasn't doing all that well in the class despite my efforts, and I wanted to preserve my GPA at all cost. I'm sure you understand."

I won't advise either way, but be ready to answer for a W. Plenty of applicants put W's on their transcript to save their GPA, and your reason for withdrawing will become very transparent if you can't gin up a worthwhile justification for dropping the course. Maybe you'll still end up ahead, but maybe you won't.

My main man, not everyone is perfect. A person with A's and B's and has 1 W for the first 2 years is a BLIP on the radar. If he continues to procure W's and C's, then it would mean something more, perhaps he can't handle it. Admissions officers aren't stupid, they can see trends. I stand by on protecting the GPA. He's already on iffy ground with an average around 3.4 this early in the game, a C here and there will bring it down to the 2s before you can say Snap-Crackle-Pop. Drop the course, lessen the weight on your studies, and concentrate on getting A's in the other classes. Regroup over the summer, and come back strong next year.

You havent played out the other scenario. Keeping biochem with a class grade of C right now may possibly lead to a final grade of a D. As an added bonus, the biochem class will take away study time from concentrating on the other classes and keeping A's or B's in those classes. That C in biochem might lead to another C in another class. What you have will be a domino effect. I suggest using this as a wake up call and preserve and protect what you have right now vs. waiting it out and possibly hurting your other classes.

I won't try to guess what Briansle's other classes are like or his aptitude in them, only he knows. But if he carefully weighs out what this one class might do to his other classes, then the choice between dropping/keeping his class will be crystal clear. Best of luck, and don't worry so much. Oh yeah, who told you UCs were easier????:wow: Besides maybe Riverside, there isn't an UC closeby that is easier than USC.

I think Drno and grettlin have sound insight as it stands. FYI, I never had a W, but in retrospect, I probably should have taken 1 or 2.
 

akathisia

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"Hehe, I'm always amazed at the long answers. Drop the damn class and dont look back. If you never had a C, a W wont signify an F. You can explain a W, and keep your GPA from falling. A C wont matter when you are at the end of 3rd or 4th year with lots of credits under your belt; but a 2.0 averaged to a 2nd year will bring your GPA down. Next time drop before the W comes into play. Protect your GPA at all costs."

He is absolutly right! Keep your GPA up at all costs! If you never get an interview you will never get into dental school. Better to have to explain in an interview than to never get an interview. Numbers matter!

P.s. I have 6 W's
 

grettlin2

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Well said, preludexl.

briansle, I think it is not the matter that "... I mean this is the bs I have to put up with at USC. I should have gone to a UC."
In any school, there are easy and difficult professors. Stick on it. If you are a bio/biochem major, some upper division courses would be harder than the biochem of Sophomore year. :D
 
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briansle

Alright, thanks everyone for their advice, but I'm ending this thread by saying I'm taking preludexl & akathisia's advice. The drop date is Apr. 9th and if I can't raise it to a B, then I'm taking the W. Makes more sense to keep the GPA above a 3.3.

Btw, UC's are easier than USC in science. Not that its any less competitive, but the way their program is structured for pre-meds is hell of alot better. The fact that they're on a quarter system, and most importantly, they get to take their labs separately from the actual class. I mean, I have to spend 6 hours a week in lab not to mention the time it takes to write lab reports and study for lab tests. It's like another class except without the credit. I can only imagine how much more I would get done if I could take all my labs during the summer.

Also, I've taken upper calc classes at UCI and my brother is a bioengineering major at UCSD, we've both noticed, UC's have a few crazy smart asians, but the majority are a bunch of lazy dumb asians who think they're hardcore gangstas in their cheap rice-rockets. Don't deny it. You know I'm right.
 

RaiderNation

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Originally posted by briansle
Also, I've taken upper calc classes at UCI and my brother is a bioengineering major at UCSD, we've both noticed, UC's have a few crazy smart asians, but the majority are a bunch of lazy dumb asians who think they're hardcore gangstas in their cheap rice-rockets. Don't deny it. You know I'm right.

I have to say...that was a freaking hilarious post. Living in CA myself...I'd have to say that statement is pretty accurate.
 

KrebsPsycho

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Briansle,

Grow up!!! What do your remarks on Asians have to do with your asking for help here? If they were dumb and lazy, it would make it easier for you to emerge from your class, right? Why crying? If you struggle with your undergrad biochem, blame yourself, don't blame the school. (Man, struggle with undergrad biochem already?). I think you should not apply to UCLA, UCSF, and especially USC dental school where 41% of students are "them". When I studied engineering at UCLA, about 80% of students in the department were Asians, but I had no problem with that. If they are dumb and lazy and still overrepresents Cal Tech, UC Berkeley, UCLA, UCI, and other UC schools, it is the Adcom's fault, right? You will be fine either with either a "C" or a "W". Concentrate on your study and don't behave like a kid (you will become a professional someday)
 
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