Bio difficulty?

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colt

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Do you think my schools science program is too difficult? After the intro biology course(biology 1 and 2 combined) we have a diversity class which is a weed out class(states it on the syllabus)......anyway, after our first test and lab test 65% of the class made below 70%....1/2 failed. I understand that a science major isn't going to be "easy" but the second class into the major 😕

How are the classes at your schools? How far along into the bio major do the masses start flunking?
 
colt said:
Do you think my schools science program is too difficult? After the intro biology course(biology 1 and 2 combined) we have a diversity class which is a weed out class(states it on the syllabus)......anyway, after our first test and lab test 65% of the class made below 70%....1/2 failed. I understand that a science major isn't going to be "easy" but the second class into the major 😕

How are the classes at your schools? How far along into the bio major do the masses start flunking?

That's normal. The intro pre-med/science courses are almost always weed out classes. What is the point of weeding people out after they have completed a good part of their major?
 
my major was microbiology, immunology, and molecular genetics. needless to say, thinking back, i shouldve majored in anthropology or english or art history or something.

in the end, it's the numbers that count. i always thought the degree of difficulty of a major would balance out weaker GPA, but no. i've seen ******s with 4.0 arts major gpa who get into med schools so yeah.

choose the easiest major your college has to offer and get a 4.0 you wont regret it.
 
I comletely agree with polarnut. I have a friend who majored in Anthropology. He has a 3.9+ GPA and now hes applying and interviewing at ivy med school. By taking an easy major, you can concentrate on doing well in the required science courses.
 
choose the easiest major your college has to offer and get a 4.0 you wont regret it
Toothdoc2b said:
I comletely agree with polarnut. I have a friend who majored in Anthropology. He has a 3.9+ GPA and now hes applying and interviewing at ivy med school. By taking an easy major, you can concentrate on doing well in the required science courses.
Good points. It seems like the students I see giving their all to school are the the science majors. The people that are in the science building, and in the lab hours on end trying to get that A or B. This may just be a fluke but most of the "cool" people are the ones flunking(including the hot girls) :laugh: ........ 🙁
 
polarnut said:
choose the easiest major your college has to offer and get a 4.0 you wont regret it.

I disagree...I mean if you really have a genuine interest in a non-science "easy" major, then by all means go for it. But if science is your thing, dont let worries about your GPA prevent you from choosing a science major. Yes it will be harder, but I believe the more hell you put yourself through now, the easier the transition to dental school will be.
 
are classes curved in your school? 90% of classes I have taken is curved, so very few people actually flunk out.
 
INFNITE said:
are classes curved in your school? 90% of classes I have taken is curved, so very few people actually flunk out.
No curve, it's a small school(~1100) with about 50 people in the class. The organismal diversity class has usually been about 20 people, so I think they are trying really hard to thin it out. I haven't had a class yet that was graded on a curve; although, I wish we did have curves. 🙁
 
JessicaSimpson said:
That's normal. The intro pre-med/science courses are almost always weed out classes. What is the point of weeding people out after they have completed a good part of their major?
It sounds like you're inferring that the major gets easier once you get through the weed out classes? If that's the case, why have weed out classes at all?
 
I would have been miserable taking some cazy major. What drew me to dentistry was science. I loved my major (integrative Biology). It gave me a strong heads up for DS. Yes it was hard... science is.

You just have to man up and study harder.
-C
 
nrlee said:
believe the more hell you put yourself through now, the easier the transition to dental school will be.

who cares about transition when your primary concern is getting into a dental school in the first place?
 
colt said:
It sounds like you're inferring that the major gets easier once you get through the weed out classes? If that's the case, why have weed out classes at all?

Usually the class averages are higher in upper level science courses, at least in my experience. I think it's a combination of factors - at that point, they aren't as interested in making you prove yourself (more assumption that you know the material well) and also most of people who get poor grades have been weeded out. If you just get over the hump of the intro classes, it probably won't be as bad later on.
 
polarnut said:
who cares about transition when your primary concern is getting into a dental school in the first place?

well if you're worried you cant get a decent GPA in undergrad sciences, what makes you think you can cut it in dental school? I think its better to take the challenging major and see what youre made of. I mean seriously, the people who dont do well (C's) probably deserve it. If you put in an honest effort, theres no reason you cant do reasonably well (B/B+). After that, youre GPA and getting into dental school will take care of itself. I'm with superC, if youre really into science, dont let the difficulty deter you from majoring in it. man up and hit the books
 
JessicaSimpson said:
That's normal. The intro pre-med/science courses are almost always weed out classes. What is the point of weeding people out after they have completed a good part of their major?

The assumption that these pre-health core-class professors implement an intentional "weeding out" period can be fallacious in certain regards. People generally need to rid their minds of this mentality because the weeds are what bring in the tuition and are often the research instruments that give the Bio/Chem/Physics programs a competitive recruiting face. It's all economic (ie - maintaining a strong number of majors) from the point of view of departments and schools so there are in fact no truly weedable (or 'uprootable') weeds from the eyes of the "weedeater professors." Rather the emphasis for them is on weeds that need to be trimmed down a spell 1) once the students network and feel like they belong and 2) can't turn back to another major without bringing fifth-year tuition to the university.

I have to agree with Polarnut because "level playing fields," however illusory, are forged in the first-year biology experience. Freshman students (at least in America) know nothing of organic chemistry except for what the first-year books teach them. I mean, c'mon, who wants to translate a foreign language given a lot of vocabulary and no knowledge of conjugations and declensions. (Diminishing returns?) That which is "hard" is not always "smart" - though 2nd semester Zoology is so canonical that it doesn't matter by the start of the Sophomore year. Heck, some students come into college from public high schools where the same biology teacher who is too cheap to do dissections simultaneously discourges them from taking AP Biology because that class is full and short a textbook or two. Can anyone think of any way to make these circumstances better for any student at any time? Would you give them a pillow to cry on if they gave it their all and couldn't hack better than a 3.0 overall because they were never really prepared in the first place? Didn't think so.

In all honesty the nature of the pre-health "weedtrimmer" beast is about saving face by touting comradery and equal opportunity among the freshman so they never rethink their selecting the "popular" major... it does NOT hinge on discrediting those weed-students who inevitably get trimmed to the B-C level more often than not though they may be serious students and outstanding standardized testtakers.

Sadly, there's no other way to rationalize success or failure in college other than "I majored in an area in which I had real interest and made the most of my college experience. I have no regrets about my choice."

There's a lot of clever quotes about pessimism (if you bother to do a websearch) that make it seem downright cool, prevalent, popular, natural, etc. Even the ancient playrights had a thing for "knowledge in suffering." This is nothing new to those who cling to seemingly grounded tradition, believe it or not.

Can you defy the convention of a mere attitude or outlook if you see another and possibly riskier (in the longterm) path? If it's your modus operandi to become a well-rounded dentist (period) then maybe polarnut has it right. Ask yourself - if you give into pessimism so early on in your late teens or early twenties then how can you ever manage a shred of (non-pecuniary) optimism running your own business and providing in-demand services in your late 20's?

You have the right to "nurture" your mind while you're young with academic resources you may never have the chance to utilize again. Of course the Biology and Chemistry advisors who flunk half of their classes may not want you to hear that because they're far more concerned with keeping the comitatus profitable.
 
nrlee said:
well if you're worried you cant get a decent GPA in undergrad sciences, what makes you think you can cut it in dental school? I think its better to take the challenging major and see what youre made of. I mean seriously, the people who dont do well (C's) probably deserve it. If you put in an honest effort, theres no reason you cant do reasonably well (B/B+). After that, youre GPA and getting into dental school will take care of itself. I'm with superC, if youre really into science, dont let the difficulty deter you from majoring in it. man up and hit the books

no i get what you're saying. however, as someone who took the "idealist" way to go about things, i'm giving my honest 2 cent advice to predents that you dont have to suffer as much as i did trying to "man up" and take all those hardcore science courses when you can get into d-school with less work by taking easier major. if you make it into dental school and you fail out because they arent conditioned for such courses, so be it. thats none of my concern. i'm talking about getting in
 
polarnut said:
if you make it into dental school and you fail out because they arent conditioned for such courses, so be it.

If you fail having been a humanities major then maybe you were meant for medicine:

an interesting MCAT statistic: that examinees who self-describe their major as Humanities consistently have higher mean scores on the Physical Sciences and Biological Sciences sections of the test then do those who indicate their major as Biological Sciences.

Source: http://www.unmc.edu/Community/ruralmeded/model/preprof/humanities_and_medicine.htm
 
polarnut said:
no i get what you're saying. however, as someone who took the "idealist" way to go about things, i'm giving my honest 2 cent advice to predents that you dont have to suffer as much as i did trying to "man up" and take all those hardcore science courses when you can get into d-school with less work by taking easier major. if you make it into dental school and you fail out because they arent conditioned for such courses, so be it. thats none of my concern. i'm talking about getting in

i know it's not fun and there are definitely some "weed-out" classes, but i can't say that it's really too terribly difficult. sometimes you just gotta dig down and find out what you've got left, if anything. i had an o-chem class of about 300 people at the start of the semester. by half-way thru there was 200. by the end of the class there were just as many people who failed as passed. is o-chem really that hard? no. why do they fail so many people? who knows. the only fact that matters is that one day an adcom will look at your transcript and say, "hey, this kid screwed up right there" and then you go to the bottom of the pile. it sucks, but everyone has to do it. there is no greener grass.
 
maksidaa said:
i know it's not fun and there are definitely some "weed-out" classes, but i can't say that it's really too terribly difficult. sometimes you just gotta dig down and find out what you've got left, if anything. i had an o-chem class of about 300 people at the start of the semester. by half-way thru there was 200. by the end of the class there were just as many people who failed as passed. is o-chem really that hard? no. why do they fail so many people? who knows. the only fact that matters is that one day an adcom will look at your transcript and say, "hey, this kid screwed up right there" and then you go to the bottom of the pile. it sucks, but everyone has to do it. there is no greener grass.

well those are pretty much lower division basic science courses required by d-schools. i'm talking about upper division classes for your major. as long as your grades in required science courses are healthy, you dont need to put yourself in greater pressure and stress by taking on additional hardcore science courses. hind sight is always 20/20 but i know my life wouldve been much easier if i had taken up psychology or something instead of immunology and molecular genetics!
 
Legacy said:
an interesting MCAT statistic: that examinees who self-describe their major as Humanities consistently have higher mean scores on the Physical Sciences and Biological Sciences sections of the test then do those who indicate their major as Biological Sciences.

I like this: I've always thought humanities people were smarter anyway. Let's face it, there is nothing hard about chem, bio, and physics. Just memorize crap and spit it out again on tests. Anyone can do that!
 
polarnut said:
no i get what you're saying. however, as someone who took the "idealist" way to go about things, i'm giving my honest 2 cent advice to predents that you dont have to suffer as much as i did trying to "man up" and take all those hardcore science courses when you can get into d-school with less work by taking easier major. if you make it into dental school and you fail out because they arent conditioned for such courses, so be it. thats none of my concern. i'm talking about getting in
I guess it comes down to how well you can do or how hard you want to work. If you're a person that can keep a 3.3+ GPA while majoring in bio than it's great and may help you in D-school. If you're the type that's only capable/willing to keep a 2.5-2.9 in bio, but you could easily have a 3.3+ in a non-science major---why stick with science if d-school is the ultimate goal?

If a philosophy major has a 3.4 and the science major has a 2.95---who has a better chance of getting in? I think the philosophy major gets in even though the bio major may be more intelligent.
 
polarnut said:
no i get what you're saying. however, as someone who took the "idealist" way to go about things, i'm giving my honest 2 cent advice to predents that you dont have to suffer as much as i did trying to "man up" and take all those hardcore science courses when you can get into d-school with less work by taking easier major. if you make it into dental school and you fail out because they arent conditioned for such courses, so be it. thats none of my concern. i'm talking about getting in


ok fair enough...its true...you really dont have to put yourself through it if you dont want to. My advice is just major in what you find interesting. If Bio is your thing, dont run and hide because youre worried about your GPA. If humanities or social sciences is your thing - do that...youll get plenty of science later. It just bugs me when people on here say they like science, but are intimidated by what they have heard about upper level sciences so they shy away from it simply because they dont think they can get their precious A.
 
Also, a lot of dental schools are now requiring more upper level science classes. As a science major, these courses are often required for the major anyway so it's like killing two birds with one stone. If you were say, a business major then you'd be taking upper level business classes with upper level biology classes. Or as a bio major you'd take the upper level science with some electives (read: GPA padding).
 
Yah! Got the grades back; I made an 85....I was worried :/ Only 7 people made B's or A's....class average 67--ouch.
 
colt said:
Yah! Got the grades back; I made an 85....I was worried :/ Only 7 people made B's or A's....class average 67--ouch.
Why are you complaining about classes that weed out students when you're at the top of the class? 😕
Please find something more worthwhile to be concerned about.
 
colt said:
Do you think my schools science program is too difficult? After the intro biology course(biology 1 and 2 combined) we have a diversity class which is a weed out class(states it on the syllabus)......anyway, after our first test and lab test 65% of the class made below 70%....1/2 failed. I understand that a science major isn't going to be "easy" but the second class into the major 😕

How are the classes at your schools? How far along into the bio major do the masses start flunking?

In my experience thus far, I would say Chemistry 1 Biology 1, and Organic Chemistry are the biggest weed out classes at my school (USF).

Again, I believe it comes down to the professor teaching the course: a difficult professor can make the easiest course hell for the smartest student.
 
tludy said:
Some of you need to stop focusing on this "difficulty of major" issue. Study what you want, if you are intelligent and motivated you will do well.

It's really rather insulting the way you discuss the arts majors, I studied primarily Economics and Philosophy in undergrad, and in many of my classes only a few students recieved A's. And I'll tell you what, my upper division philosophy classes had the smartest group of students I have ever studied with, and I have known many in the science/engineering majors.

Quit bieng bitter you choose engineering or science. A college degree is more than a means to an end. If you have a 2.95 in biology, it's your own fault, because somebody's getting A's, and if you were in fact passionate, it would be you. And if you are dispassionate, well, good luck.

I agree...

I have a friend who majored in engineering, and in any class pertaining to mathematics or physics, she does extremely well. However, when it comes to decoding Old English scriptures, or writing a thesis on Milton, it's just not her forte. Now myself? I majored in English, and I admit that I would not have a high GPA had I taken her route. As a freshman, I understood my strengths and weaknesses; and I majored accordingly.

More often than not, I see people posting about how their 3.0 GPA is in a so-called difficult major, and therefore, should be weighed more in the application process. This is complete nonesense, because what may be difficult for one person will not necessarily be difficult of another.

Great post tludy :clap: :clap: :clap: !
 
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