Bitcoin... currency of the future or fraud/scam/bubble?

[Surfer]

What are your thoughts on bitcoin? its a complicated currency, but I think its a fraud/bubble driven mostly by greed and a little bit by people's fears initiated by government intrusion into the international banking systems.

what do you all think?

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[pgg]

What are your thoughts on bitcoin? its a complicated currency, but I think its a fraud/bubble driven mostly by greed and a little bit by people's fears initiated by government intrusion into the international banking systems.

what do you all think?

I'm a nerd so I find the protocols and math/cryptography interesting. Although completely anonymous currency holds some appeal to the libertarian in me, I think idle observation is the closest I'll get to it.

While Bitcoin itself looks secure, the exchanges that permit purchase/sale in other currencies have had some security issues. Recent valuation looks bubbly from a distance.

I wouldn't put any money into it, either by converting $ to bitcoins or by mining. At this point only the people running custom dedicated hardware have a hope of coming out ahead by mining.


Time will tell, but it reminds me a lot of the Freenet project. Very interesting. Laudable goals. Never widely adopted for anything, and ultimately used for more shady purposes than not.

 

[pgg]

I think we have our answer. From $266 to $61 in two days.

My favorite quote from the CNN article: "Even assets that have no underlying value have people willing to trade in it."

 

[MoscowAbe]

I got on the train early with bitcoin , purchased a bunch when they were $3 a coin and sold at $266 a coin! Got lucky a second time with Litecoin bought some when they were 0.60 cents and sold when they hit $5. Now that BTC has been stable for a while their were alot of new altcoins being created with a new coin emerging everyday mainly for pump an dump schemes. Is it profitable? Hek yea, just don't be the last one holding the bag. Key is buy early and sell at peak. As with all other investments, never risk more money then you can afford to lose.

 

[Matty44]

Key is buy early and sell at peak.

OOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH!!!!

Dang it!

Wish I would've known that before.....I've been investing all wrong

 

[GoldnLead]

I got on the train early with bitcoin , purchased a bunch when they were $3 a coin and sold at $266 a coin! Got lucky a second time with Litecoin bought some when they were 0.60 cents and sold when they hit $5. Now that BTC has been stable for a while their were alot of new altcoins being created with a new coin emerging everyday mainly for pump an dump schemes. Is it profitable? Hek yea, just don't be the last one holding the bag. Key is buy early and sell at peak. As with all other investments, never risk more money then you can afford to lose.

NICE


I like the concept of bitcoin as a big middle finger to central banks and currency debasement. However, it's still something that resides out in the "ether" and as such, can always be suppressed by those that control access to the internet.

 

[pre med 2014]

I got on the train early with bitcoin , purchased a bunch when they were $3 a coin and sold at $266 a coin! Got lucky a second time with Litecoin bought some when they were 0.60 cents and sold when they hit $5. Now that BTC has been stable for a while their were alot of new altcoins being created with a new coin emerging everyday mainly for pump an dump schemes. Is it profitable? Hek yea, just don't be the last one holding the bag. Key is buy early and sell at peak. As with all other investments, never risk more money then you can afford to lose.

I'm going to start buying one a month for the next year. Eventually each bitcoin is going to be worth $10,000 and stabilize at around that value is my prediction.

At $180 per coin It is still optimal time to cash in on the next big surge, we are reaching the point where mining new bitcoins will become impossible. In a year or so we'll see a huge rise in value once no new bitcoins can mined because the cost of mining one new coin will be astronomical.

 

[Kahreek]

I think we have our answer. From $266 to $61 in two days.

My favorite quote from the CNN article: "Even assets that have no underlying value have people willing to trade in it."

lol american dollar has no underlying value. If i was a smalltime russian arms dealer, had a colossal amount of dirty money to transfer to say a country like philipines and lacked proper connections/more "standard" ways of moving dirty money, i would pretty much take the risk of bitcoin devaluation to make the operation.

 

[Ronin786]

lol american dollar has no underlying value. If i was a smalltime russian arms dealer, had a colossal amount of dirty money to transfer to say a country like philipines and lacked proper connections/more "standard" ways of moving dirty money, i would pretty much take the risk of bitcoin devaluation to make the operation.

Probably the reason that around $1.2 billion worth of bitcoins (I think that's around 90% of the entire circulation) were used in transactions on the recently closed black-market drug and arms trafficking site Silk Road.

Plus the FBI seized $3 million worth from users there and it just magically disappears with a click of a button. Crazy and volatile stuff.

 

[hankbb02]

That wouldn't be classified as an investment. Buying and selling assets with no intrinsic value is trading.

 

[somedumbDO]

U can't be serious.... Smh

 

[Consigliere]

Just don't spend them on Silk Road.

 

[Laito]

I'm going to start buying one a month for the next year. Eventually each bitcoin is going to be worth $10,000 and stabilize at around that value is my prediction.

At $180 per coin It is still optimal time to cash in on the next big surge, we are reaching the point where mining new bitcoins will become impossible. In a year or so we'll see a huge rise in value once no new bitcoins can mined because the cost of mining one new coin will be astronomical.

So how many bitcoin do you own now =)

 

[pre med 2014]

So how many bitcoin do you own now =)

none, but thanks for reminding me that I could have paid off my entire med school loan right now

 

[RedoxRxn]

wow. just wow

 

[dhb]

none, but thanks for reminding me that I could have paid off my entire med school loan right now

At least you were right

 

[Psai]

At least you were right

A couple of years off

 

[Laito]

none, but thanks for reminding me that I could have paid off my entire med school loan right now

My bad. I'm kicking my butt too (I'm sure lot of us are lol).

 

[AdmiralChz]

It’s like a bad, fake version of gold. At least gold looks great on jewelry.

I’ll never, ever invest in this stuff.

 

[facted]

1,000 People Own 40% of the Bitcoin Market

 

[surfguy84]

It’s like a bad, fake version of gold. At least gold looks great on jewelry.

I’ll never, ever invest in this stuff.

Long term, I'd agree. I just made a quick 20% on litecoin today. If you have an appetite for risk, now is the time to get in (particularly speaking to other cryptocurrencies)

 

[pre med 2014]

if only I was as good at predicting the importance of studying early for the usmle as I was at predicting bitcoin. I live in deep regret for the choices I've made over the last 4 years. Perhaps I should invest in some of this new litecoin

 

[pre med 2014]

Long term, I'd agree. I just made a quick 20% on litecoin today. If you have an appetite for risk, now is the time to get in (particularly speaking to other cryptocurrencies)

isn't long term the whole point of cryptocurrency? The value of the coins are unstable at first but once all possible coins are mined the point at which peak stability should occur similar to fiat currency? As the incentive to buy vs sell equals out since no new coin can be mined.

It's the same thing as if the US stopped printing money, the value of the dollar would go up and up and up. Once it gets harder or impossible to mine more bitcoin then in theory it should become as stable as fiat currency or even more stable as no new coin can be made.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

Eventually I think there will be some widely accepted, stable and easily transferable cryptocurrencies, but at this point there's no way to say which ones they will be. Lots of people in the nineties could see the value of internet search, so they bought stock in Webcrawler, Hotbot, Lycos and Altavista. Remember those? They all inflated wildly in a bubble as people poured money in, and long after the bubble popped Google emerged as the dominant search engine.

Since stability is an important factor in the long-term value of a currency, the cryptocurrency of the future will be less likely to see the kind of wild speculative swings in price we're seeing today with bitcoin. Just because the supply of bitcoin is limited doesn't mean they will always be valuable. The value of SawbonesCoin spiked from $1 when I invented it last night to $500 right now, but I'll sell you some for the bargain price of just $400 each. You know that's a great deal because tomorrow all the coins will be mined and the value of them will only go up from then on. I take cash or Paypal.

 

[facted]

The long-term value of bitcoin comes if it's ever used as actual currency on a large scale. With such ridiculous price variation you'd have to be crazy to either use it as such, or accept it as a merchant. In addition, there are serious issues with it long-term.

#1: currently, bitcoin can process 10 transactions per second, which is incredibly slow compared to other mass payment systems.

#2: much more worrying is that by 2019 it is predicted that bitcoin will utilize as much electricity as the entire US and by 2021, as much as the entire world. This is NOT because of increased use, but because computational requirements increase over time.

These are SERIOUS problems towards mass adoption, which are being addressed in other currencies, but we'll see what happens in bit coin. For now, this thing is nothing more than a bubble, however.

 

[deleted126335]

if only I was as good at predicting the importance of studying early for the usmle as I was at predicting bitcoin. I live in deep regret for the choices I've made over the last 4 years. Perhaps I should invest in some of this new litecoin

Obviously you should drop out of medical school and day trade and live on your investing and forecasting skills.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

Obviously you should drop out of medical school and day trade and live on your investing and forecasting skills.

It worked awfully well for Dr. Michael Burry, star of the book and movie The Big Short. Actually he quit immediately after residency to open his hedge fund, but during medical school he devoted so much energy to studying finance that he once fell asleep during an operation and was thrown out of the OR by the surgeon.

 

[deleted126335]

Yes he did. But he is a real outlier. Based on my observations, the reputation of physicians (including anesthesiologists) being terrible investors is richly deserved. Although I do think that is changing.

 

[facted]

Yes he did. But he is a real outlier. Based on my observations, the reputation of physicians (including anesthesiologists) being terrible investors is richly deserved. Although I do think that is changing.

If I did the opposite of every stock tip my colleagues suggested, I think I'd do as well as Buffet.

 

[deleted126335]

If I did the opposite of every stock tip my colleagues suggested, I think I'd do as well as Buffet.

 

[AdmiralChz]

A co-resident of mine was real interested in day trading, for a time did it in the OR during long cases. He’s a smart guy, but one day there was a prolonged extubation with reintubation taking about an hour, when he looked back on his screen he had lost more than $3K. He never did it again (also almost got fired as he wasn’t very subtle).

 

[okayplayer]

Yes he did. But he is a real outlier. Based on my observations, the reputation of physicians (including anesthesiologists) being terrible investors is richly deserved. Although I do think that is changing.

Out of curiousity Dr. Doze, why do you think this is changing? The WCI/Bogleheads/passive index investing movement?

Seems like successful investing is largely time, savings rate, and avoiding self-sabotage (ie. whole life insurance policies, active funds with high fees/churning, daytrading). I am hopeful more of my generation of physician will be of the set it and forget it simple 3-fund portfolio mindset.

 

[deleted126335]

Out of curiousity Dr. Doze, why do you think this is changing? The WCI/Bogleheads/passive index investing movement?

Seems like successful investing is largely time, savings rate, and avoiding self-sabotage (ie. whole life insurance policies, active funds with high fees/churning, daytrading). I am hopeful more of my generation of physician will be of the set it and forget it simple 3-fund portfolio mindset.

Yes to the bold. Although the younger docs in my group seem to be embracing this, they seem to have just as hard a time with the savings rate. They all bought the big house and the nice cars- just like most of the older docs in my group when they got out.

 

[Perrotfish]

Out of curiousity Dr. Doze, why do you think this is changing? The WCI/Bogleheads/passive index investing movement? .

I feel like its actually getting worse. It seems like docs who have insanely high student debt loads take their dismal financial situation as an excuse to surrender any sense of personal responsibility for their finances. The logic being, I guess, that there's no reason to bother with slow and steady saving if you can't even imagine getting your net worth getting to zero. Why not just invest in growth stocks and lottery tickets? Or just skip the savings, buy the luxury SUV, and hope for a government bailout down the line?

There is data to back that up, BTW: students who start with higher debt loads tend to both earn and save less than their peers on mommy and daddy scholarships.

 

[pre med 2014]

Eventually I think there will be some widely accepted, stable and easily transferable cryptocurrencies, but at this point there's no way to say which ones they will be. Lots of people in the nineties could see the value of internet search, so they bought stock in Webcrawler, Hotbot, Lycos and Altavista. Remember those? They all inflated wildly in a bubble as people poured money in, and long after the bubble popped Google emerged as the dominant search engine.

Since stability is an important factor in the long-term value of a currency, the cryptocurrency of the future will be less likely to see the kind of wild speculative swings in price we're seeing today with bitcoin. Just because the supply of bitcoin is limited doesn't mean they will always be valuable. The value of SawbonesCoin spiked from $1 when I invented it last night to $500 right now, but I'll sell you some for the bargain price of just $400 each. You know that's a great deal because tomorrow all the coins will be mined and the value of them will only go up from then on. I take cash or Paypal.

Ya, so I predict the bitcoin bubble will pop and litecoin will emerge as the dominant coin cause it was created by Google. Everybody change your bitcoin to litecoin now. I was right the first time, better listen to me now if you wanna get rich

 

[ProRealDoc]

What are your thoughts on bitcoin? its a complicated currency, but I think its a fraud/bubble driven mostly by greed and a little bit by people's fears initiated by government intrusion into the international banking systems.

what do you all think?

I bought some Litecoin and IOTA just to play the game. IOTA is fairly cheap (bought at $3.71) and, according to reports, is or has been adopted by corporate giants like Samsung, Microsoft, Fujitsu, Volkswagen, etc and will presumably be the cryptocurrency of choice for the 'Internet Of Things" (IoT), hence the name IoTA. I had some cash to spare so I chose to gamble it away

 

[mostwanted]

I have been following the crypto market closely for past six months. I think long term Ethereum is probably the most practical option (given speed, smart contracts, fees, number of developers)

 

[txhorn]

I bought some Litecoin and IOTA just to play the game. IOTA is fairly cheap (bought at $3.71) and, according to reports, is or has been adopted by corporate giants like Samsung, Microsoft, Fujitsu, Volkswagen, etc and will presumably be the cryptocurrency of choice for the 'Internet Of Things" (IoT), hence the name IoTA. I had some cash to spare so I chose to gamble it away

You picked up litecoin at a great time.

 

[CECC110]

For someone just getting into the crypto game, should one be buying up litecoin/ether that will supposedly supplant btc with their technology, or trying to really hit on some of the alts like REQ/NEO/ADA?

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

For someone just getting into the crypto game, should one be buying up litecoin/ether that will supposedly supplant btc with their technology, or trying to really hit on some of the alts like REQ/NEO/ADA?

This is a bit like asking which dotcom is the least speculative in 1998. Solid companies like Cisco saw their shares skyrocket along with the garbage like pets.com, but even thought they had actual products and revenues their stock prices crashed in the end, just not quite as far down as the garbage went. Even if you do find a long-term cryptocurrency winner it's going to tank in the short term when the bubble bursts. The price of pretty much all the major cryptocurrencies spiked in unison with Bitcoin over the last couple of months, so there's no reason to believe they won't fall with it as well. If I had to pick a favorite I'd go with Monero for its anonymous transactions, but the price of it jumped along with everything else. I'm going to wait until the dust settles after the inevitable crash before buying any more cryptocurrency. The stuff is useful, but not at wildly inflated prices. One $17,000 bitcoin is no better for transferring wealth than 17,000 $1 bitcoins are.

 

[GA8314]

Live like a mid-level engineering manager making 125-150k/year. Bank the rest with some exceptions such as vacations and some hobbies.

As per Bitcoin, nobody ever said you can't speculate on this thing, and make some money if you are lucky. But, it's just that. Speculation. And that's very different than holding an index fund of hundreds of companies producing goods and services in the real economy. Which we all realize can also be risky, but currently there is no comparison.

 

[DNC127]

Anybody else going in on LiteCoin? Any speculation of its chances to increase similar to BitCoin?

 

[mostwanted]

I just invested a small amount in Bitcoin cloud mining (no equipment needed), if BTC prices hold or remain over 10k, will make 5k plus a month. Getting paid in BTC daily based on the amount of hash rate. If there is any interest I can do a detailed post in private forum.

 

[Tee Cell]

Anybody else going in on LiteCoin? Any speculation of its chances to increase similar to BitCoin?

I'm planning to. Although I'm expecting a price drop, but I plan on picking some up. It's value tends to mimic bitcoin since it's on most of the available exchanges in the US. As more people start to invest inevitably the price will increase. I had a chance of getting it when it was in the $70's. I'm obviously kicking myself now.

 

[GA8314]

Just realize that this has all of the makings of a massive bubble. Again, people could have ridden up the Dot.com bubble as well, made a nice profit, and sold. I know a home builder who made bank during the 2000's and then told me "I'm not buying anymore lots for a while" in about 2006.. Smart move.

But, the Bitcoin run up is now being compared to the Dutch Tulip mania. That can't be a good thing.

For the younger dudes, this also reminds many of us of the real estate bubble when you had "average Joe's" out flipping brand new homes because of the rapid increases in "value" over a short period of time. It was all the talk, as was Dot.com. This is an ominous sign IMO.

I'd advise extreme caution, and I most certainly would not be putting needed funds at great risk. Maybe a small portion to play, but that's it. Also, don't get wrapped up in the ideology of it all. Sticking it to the Fed etc. This should be play money at most and take profits if you don't get burned first.

 

[DNC127]

I'm planning to. Although I'm expecting a price drop, but I plan on picking some up. It's value tends to mimic bitcoin since it's on most of the available exchanges in the US. As more people start to invest inevitably the price will increase. I had a chance of getting it when it was in the $70's. I'm obviously kicking myself now.

I got a pretty solid amount yesterday, and have seen predictions it will get to 1k in 2018. Hoping to get a quick buck or two and bounce haha. I dont really trust the whole cryptocurrency thing to go all in or hold it for a while.

 

[Laito]

Anybody else going in on LiteCoin? Any speculation of its chances to increase similar to BitCoin?

I got some last week when it was around $100/LTC. It's been a great (fun) week =) I'm hoping for it to rise to 1/4 of bitcoin (~5k).

 

[anes121508]

I got some last week when it was around $100/LTC. It's been a great (fun) week =) I'm hoping for it to rise to 1/4 of bitcoin (~5k).

Anyone looking at blockchain stocks?

 

[pre med 2014]

The long-term value of bitcoin comes if it's ever used as actual currency on a large scale. With such ridiculous price variation you'd have to be crazy to either use it as such, or accept it as a merchant.

well you can purchase a property in Dubai using Bitcoin... granted the property values in Dubai fluctuate just about as much as cryptocurrency it's not surprising it's happening lol

Once it is mainstream enough that people can easily transfer funds between phones it will compete with apps like venmo etc...

 

[pgg]

well you can purchase a property in Dubai using Bitcoin... granted the property values in Dubai fluctuate just about as much as cryptocurrency it's not surprising it's happening lol

Once it is mainstream enough that people can easily transfer funds between phones it will compete with apps like venmo etc...

Bitcoin is being used as currency now less than it was a year ago. Actually spending bitcoin on stuff is harder now than it was weeks or months ago. It's being hoarded by speculators, not spent.