Bitcoin... currency of the future or fraud/scam/bubble?

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Pretty niche use. And cant you basically use any mainstream crypto for that?
no. because not all cryptos are decentralized. Like for instance XRP. Its centralized and controlled by a company- ripple. Again, thats the beauty of bitcoin. Its decentralized, meaning not controlled by anybody in particular, but rather the collective consensus of all nodes. its like this:
business-stand-off-or-stalemate-concept-with-three-businessman-standing-in-a-circle-pointing-g...jpg
 
no. because not all cryptos are decentralized. Like for instance XRP. Its centralized and controlled by a company- ripple. Again, thats the beauty of bitcoin. Its decentralized, meaning not controlled by anybody in particular, but rather the collective consensus of all nodes. its like this:
View attachment 406560

And thats why it will never be used as a real currency.

It will remain as a store of value. Its only fringe uses are buying black market stuff, or sending money quickly around the world. And when sending money, its immediately converted back into local currency before actually being used

It has no inherent value itself, or by owning it, a way to generate revenue (its not a business or real estate)

Its a big house of cards
 
And thats why it will never be used as a real currency.

It will remain as a store of value. Its only fringe uses are buying black market stuff, or sending money quickly around the world. And when sending money, its immediately converted back into local currency before actually being used

It has no inherent value itself, or by owning it, a way to generate revenue (its not a business or real estate)

Its a big house of cards

Lmao
 
And thats why it will never be used as a real currency.

It will remain as a store of value. Its only fringe uses are buying black market stuff, or sending money quickly around the world. And when sending money, its immediately converted back into local currency before actually being used

It has no inherent value itself, or by owning it, a way to generate revenue (its not a business or real estate)

Its a big house of cards
I have to disagree. If anything its decentralization strengthens its use case as a currency. The only thing holding it back is that transactions have a cost (albeit small) and that the network is still too slow for everyday transacting. But as I said there are new programming layers coming that speed it up to modern standards, so all of that could very well change.

It does have inherent value. Does google maps have inherent value over a physical rand mcnally map? of course. Just because its not a tangible asset does not make it value-less. I would argue that its more valuable than gold.
 
I have to disagree. If anything its decentralization strengthens its use case as a currency. The only thing holding it back is that transactions have a cost (albeit small) and that the network is still too slow for everyday transacting. But as I said there are new programming layers coming that speed it up to modern standards, so all of that could very well change.

It does have inherent value. Does google maps have inherent value over a physical rand mcnally map? of course. Just because its not a tangible asset does not make it value-less. I would argue that its more valuable than gold.
It doesnt meet the basic criteria of a currency, with many significant road blocks

1. Transaction cost (as you mentioned). Why would i use Bitcoin when a cc is safer, faster and cheaper?

2. Stable value. A currency cant significantly fluctuate in value if its to be used for transactions. How do you pay for goods and services, employees, when the value of that payment can fluctuate massively. How do you tax that? If i pay my employee $100 worth of Bitcoin, does he then report taxes because now its worth $120 when he uses it to pay rent. But then does his rent go down because bitcoin goes up? Etc etc
If bitcoin goes up 10%, does the grocery store have to reprice all their goods?

3. Ease and safety of use. Storage of bitcoin, accessibility, fraud, theft, all massive problems with bitcoin that limit its use

4. Literally zero real world acceptance at a transactional level. Stores dont accept it

5. No benefit for the average person to switch over. If you want to massively change the status quo ..then the new technology needs to be faster, cheaper, easier, and intuitive to use. Bitcoin is none of those things outside of a few niche uses (black market, money transfers) that ultimately require a local currency anyways.

Think about it this way. If you expect the average American to adopt it .you have to ask yourself what problem does it solve? In your day to day life, how would bitcoin make it easier?

Buying black market goods? Absolutely. Its great for buying things that cant be bought using credit cards. A vanishingly small percentage of transactions

Sending money internationally ( can save time and fees. But requires some sophistication from the sender and receiver). Most americans dont send money internationally

Speculative investment

That's about it for its CURRENT mainstream uses. Been the same for the last 10 years. When will that change and why?
 
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i know right. Businesses are adopting bitcoin daily. Bitcoin ATM's all over all the malls in my town. Bitcoin ATMs in costco now.

Kicking my legs up. I am tired of fighting and arguimg those that don't get it. Most friends and family still dont get it. If i retire in 2029 maybe ill have more energy to debate for fun but i frankly do not care to. All i know is im in the greatest asset to exist and its helping me buy time. Number go up and printing go brr.

Next stop figuring out how to slow/stop agiing. I think AI will help solve it. Then things really get cray.
 
As a matter of fact here is a listing of business that now accept bitcoin-

A lot of these are just middle man services.

"We'll take your bitcoin and give you a gift card to this place."

Having said that, I am somewhat surprised by how many of these are listed as "pay direct" with bitpay. Sounds like a some of these might have additional hangups though.

"Some merchants may use email billing in place of a checkout experience. In these cases, you will be emailed an invoice from which you will complete your transaction."

I don't think I've never had to do that with a credit card?

I am not surprised you can donate crypto to the Ayn Rand Institute. What has your experience been like purchasing things with bitpay?

Screenshot_20250714_115612_Chrome.jpg

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It doesnt meet the basic criteria of a currency, with many significant road blocks

1. Transaction cost (as you mentioned). Why would i use Bitcoin when a cc is safer, faster and cheaper?

2. Stable value. A currency cant significantly fluctuate in value if its to be used for transactions. How do you pay for goods and services, employees, when the value of that payment can fluctuate massively. How do you tax that? If i pay my employee $100 worth of Bitcoin, does he then report taxes because now its worth $120 when he uses it to pay rent. But then does his rent go down because bitcoin goes up? Etc etc
If bitcoin goes up 10%, does the grocery store have to reprice all their goods?

3. Ease and safety of use. Storage of bitcoin, accessibility, fraud, theft, all massive problems with bitcoin that limit its use

4. Literally zero real world acceptance at a transactional level. Stores dont accept it

5. No benefit for the average person to switch over. If you want to massively change the status quo ..then the new technology needs to be faster, cheaper, easier, and intuitive to use. Bitcoin is none of those things outside of a few niche uses (black market, money transfers) that ultimately require a local currency anyways.

Think about it this way. If you expect the average American to adopt it .you have to ask yourself what problem does it solve? In your day to day life, how would bitcoin make it easier?

Buying black market goods? Absolutely. Its great for buying things that cant be bought using credit cards. A vanishingly small percentage of transactions

Sending money internationally ( can save time and fees. But requires some sophistication from the sender and receiver). Most americans dont send money internationally

Speculative investment

That's about it for its CURRENT mainstream uses. Been the same for the last 10 years. When will that change and why?
Oh boy. Where do I start here.
1. Transaction cost- like I said, the next evolution of bitcoin will be soft forks that speed up the network and lower transaction costs, but fyi, credit cards are NOT cheaper. How do you think VISA makes its money, its a 2% upcharge on every cc transaction that is passed onto the consumer.

2.The value will stabilize over time. This is a fledgling asset class that continues to mature. but yes, right now its just tied to its exchange rate. simple.

3. Fiat has all the same problems and I would argue that bitcoin actually is more secure than fiat. Most cold storage wallets I know are ELA 6 or 7 certified. Thats NASA grade security.

4.Wrong. I just posted above, a list of 250 mainstream businesses that accept bitcoin. And if the business does not, you can walk up to any bitcoin atm and exchange for cash.

5.HUGE benefit for the average joe to switch, and that is one simple fact. Protection from currency debasement. The problem that it solves is that the government keeps debasing your cash, your savings, etc by printing funny money. Your dollars have lost ~25% of their value in 5 years. Bitcoin has gained hundreds of percent. why is this hard for you to compute?
 
It tracks that you think anything, let alone AI, could stop us from aging and that Bitcoin is infinite gains.
Not AI alone. Quantum Computing AI will be key in curing many sicknesses including cancer. Definitely slowing and possibly halting aging. For absolute sure if it doesnt decide we're useless to it and turn on us. You are talking about an entity that is more intelligent than the collective intelligence of human history. and its basically here. We're months away from the singularity and a few years away from super-intelligent AI's.
 
Not AI alone. Quantum Computing AI will be key in curing many sicknesses including cancer. Definitely slowing and possibly halting aging. For absolute sure if it doesnt decide we're useless to it and turn on us. You are talking about an entity that is more intelligent than the collective intelligence of human history. and its basically here. We're months away from the singularity and a few years away from super-intelligent AI's.

It will likely calculate the existence time line of earth with and without humans and their nukes/wars/emotions and eventually kiss us goodbye but it will be a hell of a run till that happens. AI wars of the future isn't that like star wars esque? Its all a simulation anyways.
 
It will likely calculate the existence time line of earth with and without humans and their nukes/wars/emotions and eventually kiss us goodbye but it will be a hell of a run till that happens. AI wars of the future isn't that like star wars esque? Its all a simulation anyways.
I mean now we're truly getting into speculation. Im regurgitating what most computer scientists and engineers have said about super-intelligent AI's. Bitcoin is not nearly as speculative as all that. I agree there is a degree of uncertainty with just about every and any investment out there. I would say bitcoins uncertainty is far less than that of the average S&P 500 stock.
 
Oh boy. Where do I start here.
1. Transaction cost- like I said, the next evolution of bitcoin will be soft forks that speed up the network and lower transaction costs, but fyi, credit cards are NOT cheaper. How do you think VISA makes its money, its a 2% upcharge on every cc transaction that is passed onto the consumer.

2.The value will stabilize over time. This is a fledgling asset class that continues to mature. but yes, right now its just tied to its exchange rate. simple.

3. Fiat has all the same problems and I would argue that bitcoin actually is more secure than fiat. Most cold storage wallets I know are ELA 6 or 7 certified. Thats NASA grade security.

4.Wrong. I just posted above, a list of 250 mainstream businesses that accept bitcoin. And if the business does not, you can walk up to any bitcoin atm and exchange for cash.

5.HUGE benefit for the average joe to switch, and that is one simple fact. Protection from currency debasement. The problem that it solves is that the government keeps debasing your cash, your savings, etc by printing funny money. Your dollars have lost ~25% of their value in 5 years. Bitcoin has gained hundreds of percent. why is this hard for you to compute?
1. Transaction cost. With bitcoin, its paid by the user. With cc, its paid by the vendor. Massive psychological difference in terms of utilization. I profit from using my cc. I lose money using bitcoin.

2. Value stabilize over time? I thought was going to increase in value 1000% in the next 7 years. Which is it???

3. More secure than fiat? I dont have to worry about losing my key, hackers, losing my wallet, etc with no ability to get my money back. The government, cc and banks will generally make me whole (or at least, thats the public perception).

4. They accept bitcoin and then guess what .they immediately just convert it into cash to be used. Can work to some degree in an online environment as they can recalculate exchange rates automatically. Won't work in stores. And how often are people getting cash and immediately converting it to Bitcoin? Vanishingly small. Again, do you think these companies pay their employees with bitcoin? Pay their vendors? Pay their bills? NOPE. So if Bitcoin was so great as a currency, then why would these companies have to go through the process of converting bitcoin into another currency just to be able to use it for day to day ops

5. Eh, thats just the doomsday prep philosophy. You cant seem to decide whether you want to use it as a store of value (inflation hedge, etc) or a currency. They are very different things, and require different characteristics. Thats why nobody pays bills using gold
 
1. Transaction cost. With bitcoin, its paid by the user. With cc, its paid by the vendor. Massive psychological difference in terms of utilization. I profit from using my cc. I lose money using bitcoin.

2. Value stabilize over time? I thought was going to increase in value 1000% in the next 7 years. Which is it???

3. More secure than fiat? I dont have to worry about losing my key, hackers, losing my wallet, etc with no ability to get my money back. The government, cc and banks will generally make me whole (or at least, thats the public perception).

4. They accept bitcoin and then guess what .they immediately just convert it into cash to be used. Can work to some degree in an online environment as they can recalculate exchange rates automatically. Won't work in stores. And how often are people getting cash and immediately converting it to Bitcoin? Vanishingly small. Again, do you think these companies pay their employees with bitcoin? Pay their vendors? Pay their bills? NOPE. So if Bitcoin was so great as a currency, then why would these companies have to go through the process of converting bitcoin into another currency just to be able to use it for day to day ops

5. Eh, thats just the doomsday prep philosophy. You cant seem to decide whether you want to use it as a store of value (inflation hedge, etc) or a currency. They are very different things, and require different characteristics. Thats why nobody pays bills using gold
1. mmk. I know many businesses which charge the 2% surcharge only on credit card transactions, and they flat out tell you this up front. With bitcoin it may be paid by the user but its a very small amount. Again as I mentioned this will likely improve soon. Is there an echo in here?

2. Yes, numbskull, stabilize over time. Im referring to short term perturbations. For the long run it will only appreciate.

3. I have had cash stolen, Ive had my cc# stolen. How many people are victims of bank fraud? My uncle recently was scammed out of $26k. And he has not and probably will not ever be made whole. The risks of losing your key okay, if you're an idiot. sure. hackers-no. how many hackes do you know who can crack NASA grade security. stop it. Losing your wallet matters zero as long as your seed phrase is secure. What if the sky falls chicken little?

4. who cares? the point is its being used to transact with. More and more adopting bitcoin payments, you're gonna **** yourself here soon when you see just how many businesses begin accepting bitcoin, because if they dont they will be left behind. Were you arguing against the internet this much back in 95?

5. No dude, its literally not. This is exactly why companies are switching their treasuries to bitcoin. Its because their investments are not keeping up with inflation as well as bitcoin does. What doomsday? this is happening before our very eyes. but your eyes clearly arent open lol.
 
1. mmk. I know many businesses which charge the 2% surcharge only on credit card transactions, and they flat out tell you this up front. With bitcoin it may be paid by the user but its a very small amount. Again as I mentioned this will likely improve soon. Is there an echo in here?

2. Yes, numbskull, stabilize over time. Im referring to short term perturbations. For the long run it will only appreciate.

3. I have had cash stolen, Ive had my cc# stolen. How many people are victims of bank fraud? My uncle recently was scammed out of $26k. And he has not and probably will not ever be made whole. The risks of losing your key okay, if you're an idiot. sure. hackers-no. how many hackes do you know who can crack NASA grade security. stop it. Losing your wallet matters zero as long as your seed phrase is secure. What if the sky falls chicken little?

4. who cares? the point is its being used to transact with. More and more adopting bitcoin payments, you're gonna **** yourself here soon when you see just how many businesses begin accepting bitcoin, because if they dont they will be left behind. Were you arguing against the internet this much back in 95?

5. No dude, its literally not. This is exactly why companies are switching their treasuries to bitcoin. Its because their investments are not keeping up with inflation as well as bitcoin does. What doomsday? this is happening before our very eyes. but your eyes clearly arent open lol.
1. Ah yes, they charge 2% and then the cc gives you 2% back in rewards. Heck, amazon gives 5% back. Plus fraud protection, and the myriad of cc benefits. What benefits would i get with bitcoin? None.
Also, i have to BUY the bitcoin, with currency, instead of just using the currency, or using a cc. All of which require far fewer steps.


2. Ah yes, that what all currencies are intended to do? Appreciate over time? Thats deflation. Causes lots of problems...and depresses consumption and spending.
Oook. But then whats your target appreciation once its stabilized? 2% per year? 5%? 10%? If its going to beat stocks, then it needs to go up at least 8-10% per year. If it changes in value 10% per year, thats incompatible with use as a currency...so then its a store of value.
Again, it cant be both and be effective

3. Scammed out of 26k? Bitcoin doesnt prevent your uncle from being catfished either
Wallet stolen? Lose a $100 did you. Far different than having your whole bitcoin wallet stolen (would be similar to your chase acct being stolen). How many millions have been stolen and consumers ****ed from banks?


Those folks made whole? Nope

4. Who care? How can it be a currency when it cant be used to perform the basic everyday tasks of a currency??? Your response is "who cares"?? Uhh..everyone who you expect to use it as a currency might want it to be able to handle the everyday transactions that currency handles

5. Again, you keep jumping back and forth. Is it a currency or a speculative investment? You argue that its a currency on the cusp of being mainstream...when it doesnt even accomplish some of the basic daily tasks of a currency, let alone do them BETTER than existing methods (which is required to displace the existing currency)

Speculative investment (with a few fringe currency uses) absolutely. So companies and investors can speculate all they want.
 
1. Ah yes, they charge 2% and then the cc gives you 2% back in rewards. Heck, amazon gives 5% back. Plus fraud protection, and the myriad of cc benefits. What benefits would i get with bitcoin? None.
Also, i have to BUY the bitcoin, with currency, instead of just using the currency, or using a cc. All of which require far fewer steps.


2. Ah yes, that what all currencies are intended to do? Appreciate over time? Thats deflation. Causes lots of problems...and depresses consumption and spending.
Oook. But then whats your target appreciation once its stabilized? 2% per year? 5%? 10%? If its going to beat stocks, then it needs to go up at least 8-10% per year. If it changes in value 10% per year, thats incompatible with use as a currency...so then its a store of value.
Again, it cant be both and be effective

3. Scammed out of 26k? Bitcoin doesnt prevent your uncle from being catfished either
Wallet stolen? Lose a $100 did you. Far different than having your whole bitcoin wallet stolen (would be similar to your chase acct being stolen). How many millions have been stolen and consumers ****ed from banks?


Those folks made whole? Nope

4. Who care? How can it be a currency when it cant be used to perform the basic everyday tasks of a currency??? Your response is "who cares"?? Uhh..everyone who you expect to use it as a currency might want it to be able to handle the everyday transactions that currency handles

5. Again, you keep jumping back and forth. Is it a currency or a speculative investment? You argue that its a currency on the cusp of being mainstream...when it doesnt even accomplish some of the basic daily tasks of a currency, let alone do them BETTER than existing methods (which is required to displace the existing currency)

Speculative investment (with a few fringe currency uses) absolutely. So companies and investors can speculate all they want.
1. You are reaping "rewards" on the backs of other poor souls who actually pay these evil schmucks interest on their credit card balances. You want my opinion? Credit cards are one of the worst things to happen to America financially. Its a broken system. What do you think credit cards just conjure money to pay you for just simply using their card? Of course not. For every one of your type that never have a running balance, there are 10 who are dumb enough to fall for the bait and then they cant pay it off. Do you know that the avg american carries something like $6k in credit card debt on a month to month basis?? Thats ****ed. Dont talk to me about your credit card benefits. I bet you use anecdotal evidence to make medical decisions too.

2. You clearly do not fully understand the macroeconomics of currencies. There are phases of adoption. we are still in the early phase. Bitcoin is appreciating for two reasons- 1) its becoming more scarce as adoption increases and 2) its rising against a falling dollar. A dollar thats sinking in value quicker than ever before in history. Bitcoins gains have begun to taper already, but it will still continue with at least 20% CAGR for the forseeable future. As its adoption matures its appreciation will stabilize as well but we're talking about decades before thats a reality. For the next 3 decades at least I see it growing steadily at a faster pace than the S&P 500.

3.Theft by hacking is exceptionally rare. And this is hedged by putting your money in multiple wallets, and by using EAL6 or 7 wallets. Making it exponentially more difficult to steal your money. Biggest reasons why people get hacked is because they do stupid things like store their seed phrases on vulnerable personal computers. Yea, if you're dumb and you're not gonna do your due diligence to secure your wallet then dont buy bitcoin.

4.Thats where you're wrong. It can be used for everyday purchasing in many areas of the country already. And the adoption is growing everyday. And this is a moot point anyway. even if it NEVER becomes a transacting currency its value will still be massive as a store of wealth.

5. It is a form of money, therefore its a form of currency, but also a store of wealth like gold. It is still in its early phase of adoption and therefore it is an investment of sorts, yes. anything in its infancy is at least some percentage speculative. but you are massively undervaluing it right now. its really shortsighted.
 
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1. You are reaping "rewards" on the backs of other poor souls who actually pay these evil schmucks interest on their credit card balances. You want my opinion? Credit cards are one of the worst things to happen to America financially. Its a broken system. What do you think credit cards just conjure money to pay you for just simply using their card? Of course not. For every one of your type that never have a running balance, there are 10 who are dumb enough to fall for the bait and then they cant pay it off. Do you know that the avg american carries something like $6k in credit card debt on a month to month basis?? Thats ****ed. Dont talk to me about you credit card benefits. I bet you use anecdotal evidence to make medical decisions too.

2. You clearly do not fully understand the macroeconomics of currencies. There are phases of adoption. we are still in the early phase. Bitcoin is appreciating for two reasons- 1) its becoming more scarce as adoption increases and 2) its rising against a falling dollar. A dollar thats sinking in value quicker than ever before in history. Bitcoins gains have begun to taper already, but it will still continue with at least 20% CAGR for the forseeable future. As its adoption matures its appreciate will stabilize as well but we're talking about decades before thats a reality. For the next 3 decades at least I see it growing steadily at a faster pace than the S&P 500.

3.Theft by hacking is exceptionally rare. And this is hedged by putting your money in multiple wallets. Making it exponentially more difficult to steal your money. Biggest reasons why people get hacked is because they do stupid things like store their seed phrases on vulnerable personal computers. Yea, if you're dumb and you're not gonna do your due diligence to secure your wallet then dont buy bitcoin.

4.Thats where you're wrong. It can be used for everyday purchasing in many areas of the country already. And the adoption is growing everyday. And this is a moot point anyway. even if it NEVER becomes a transacting currency its value will still be massive as a store of wealth.

5. It is a form of money, therefore its a form of currency, but also a store of wealth like gold. It is still in its early phase of adoption and therefore it is an investment of sorts, yes. anything in its infancy is at least some percentage speculative. but you are massively undervaluing it right now. its really shortsighted.
You are correct. Credit cards frequently lead to unsustainable debt for a typical user. But that goes to show that consumers will use credit cards DESPITE the fact that they end up racking up debt BECAUSE they are fast, regulated, convenient, easy and universally accepted and fill a need (a way to purchase without carry cash). Bitcoin isnt any of those things.

Could it be in 50 years, 100 years? Sure. I guess anything is possible. But highly unlikely. Governments would need to support it as a currency (and thus give up control of their currency, along with the ability to manipulate it, and why would they do that?). Unclear the economic risks of losing central control of a currency. Consumers would need a reason to pay for transactions that they dont directly pay for now, especially ones that require more steps than they already do.

You would also need someone to be interested in paying for infrastructure, processing, record keeping, new coins, etc and what's in it for them?

If Bitcoin were to become mainstream in 50 years..its likely because the government allowed it and the government would seek to regulate and control before that happens.
 
See that's the thing is if you store it any other way you can get robbed irreversibly. If some rando breaks into your house they can't steal your entire stock market portfolio in an irreversible transaction at gunpoint but if you believe in the magic use case of Bitcoin they can!

So if you have millions in crypto you have to secure it in a bank vault because you want self custody, but in a safe way where you put it in the bank's custody. All so you can do large transactions at a moments notice... As long as the bank is open and you have to physically go to it of course. Also if you die or get in to an accident it is all lost forever of course... Unless you put the keys to your wallet somewhere which of course means it can again be stolen irreversibly as above by anyone that finds them. It is just vastly superior to the crappy system we have now where people can reverse fraudulent transactions and recover funds from deceased relatives.

To be fair, you really only have to memorize 12-24 words to access your bitcoin. It’s not really locked away per se (also a poor choice as banks have been known to confiscate safety deposit boxes on “suspicion” alone).

Other criticisms are completely valid which is why self-custody is a double-edged sword and not for everybody.
 
To be fair, you really only have to memorize 12-24 words to access your bitcoin. It’s not really locked away per se (also a poor choice as banks have been known to confiscate safety deposit boxes on “suspicion” alone).

Other criticisms are completely valid which is why self-custody is a double-edged sword and not for everybody.
What happens if you get in to a car accident and can't remember them and your family needs that money to take care of you or your bills?

As a disclaimer I do self custody some cryptocurrency and actually do understand it but I am not a fanatic doomsday soothsayer like the people here.
 
What happens if you get in to a car accident and can't remember them and your family needs that money to take care of you or your bills?

As a disclaimer I do self custody some cryptocurrency and actually do understand it but I am not a fanatic doomsday soothsayer like the people here.

Risks and benefits to everything. I’m not a prepper either, but let’s not pretend traditional systems are foolproof/superior to proper self-custody (offline storage/multisig in addition to memorizing your seed phrases).
 
What happens if you get in to a car accident and can't remember them and your family needs that money to take care of you or your bills?

As a disclaimer I do self custody some cryptocurrency and actually do understand it but I am not a fanatic doomsday soothsayer like the people here.
Doomsday. So funny. Banks go under all the time. People get their assets seized all the time.
 
You are correct. Credit cards frequently lead to unsustainable debt for a typical user. But that goes to show that consumers will use credit cards DESPITE the fact that they end up racking up debt BECAUSE they are fast, regulated, convenient, easy and universally accepted and fill a need (a way to purchase without carry cash). Bitcoin isnt any of those things.

Could it be in 50 years, 100 years? Sure. I guess anything is possible. But highly unlikely. Governments would need to support it as a currency (and thus give up control of their currency, along with the ability to manipulate it, and why would they do that?). Unclear the economic risks of losing central control of a currency. Consumers would need a reason to pay for transactions that they dont directly pay for now, especially ones that require more steps than they already do.

You would also need someone to be interested in paying for infrastructure, processing, record keeping, new coins, etc and what's in it for them?

If Bitcoin were to become mainstream in 50 years..its likely because the government allowed it and the government would seek to regulate and control before that happens.
You must have been living under a rock these past 15 years. Bitcoin went from nothing to 2 trillion market cap and rapidly climbing. Its now legal tender in 2 countries. USA, China, UK, Ukraine, Bhutan, El salvador, Finland, and unofficially Russia and North Korea all have substantial bitcoin reserves. Blackrock, state street, vanguard etc amassing bitcoin and filing for bitcoin ETF’s. Organizational investments from multiple s&p companies as well as top companies in other countries. Zero signs of slowing. Are you mental?
 
You are correct. Credit cards frequently lead to unsustainable debt for a typical user. But that goes to show that consumers will use credit cards DESPITE the fact that they end up racking up debt BECAUSE they are fast, regulated, convenient, easy and universally accepted and fill a need (a way to purchase without carry cash). Bitcoin isnt any of those things.

Could it be in 50 years, 100 years? Sure. I guess anything is possible. But highly unlikely. Governments would need to support it as a currency (and thus give up control of their currency, along with the ability to manipulate it, and why would they do that?). Unclear the economic risks of losing central control of a currency. Consumers would need a reason to pay for transactions that they dont directly pay for now, especially ones that require more steps than they already do.

You would also need someone to be interested in paying for infrastructure, processing, record keeping, new coins, etc and what's in it for them?

If Bitcoin were to become mainstream in 50 years..its likely because the government allowed it and the government would seek to regulate and control before that happens.
You’re still not understanding the power of bitcoins decentralization. The government cant do anything about it. They cant put that genie back in the bottle. Will they persecute people who use bitcoin? Maybe but it would be unwise, because people would flee. The whole entire beauty of bitcoin is that its NON-SOVEREIGN. I dunno how else to explain this to you. The government does not get to control or uncontrol bitcoin. They can only control and inflate their own crap fiat. Bitcoin got to this point all on its own by the choice of the people. The people chose to opt into a system free of fiat slavery.
 
Has anybody in this thread ever accepted payment for their services in bitcoin? Is anybody planning to accept it as a form of payment soon? If not, why not? It is God’s money after all.

I consider it a speculative asset based on consensus of its value but I don’t consider it a currency.
 
Have they accepted gold? No. Still a $22 trillion market cap.


To that point, my best friend fled Vietnam as a child on a boat. They left carrying gold. His family was separated into 2 different boats. Unfortunately pirates knew that people fleeing on boats were carrying gold. The boat his mother was on was attacked by pirates and she was murdered.
 
It’s an asset, not a currency.
Its both. A guy paid for a pizza with 10,000 bitcoins once. Its just a currency in the “early adoption phase”. Look up the phases of adoption of currency. And soon here it will be in the “early widespread adoption” phase. The fact that there are bitcoin atm’s all over the malls in my town tells me its a currency. As a matter of fact, here, you can use this to see how many bitcoin atms are near you.

 
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To that point, my best friend fled Vietnam as a child on a boat. They left carrying gold. His family was separated into 2 different boats. Unfortunately pirates knew that people fleeing on boats were carrying gold. The boat his mother was on was attacked by pirates and she was murdered.
What a wonderful illustration demonstrating bitcoins superiority to gold.
 
Risks and benefits to everything. I’m not a prepper either, but let’s not pretend traditional systems are foolproof/superior to proper self-custody (offline storage/multisig in addition to memorizing your seed phrases).
In what way? Like the bank could get robbed and you'd lose all your money or are you talking about something else?
 
You must have been living under a rock these past 15 years. Bitcoin went from nothing to 2 trillion market cap and rapidly climbing. Its now legal tender in 2 countries. USA, China, UK, Ukraine, Bhutan, El salvador, Finland, and unofficially Russia and North Korea all have substantial bitcoin reserves. Blackrock, state street, vanguard etc amassing bitcoin and filing for bitcoin ETF’s. Organizational investments from multiple s&p companies as well as top companies in other countries. Zero signs of slowing. Are you mental?

lol
 
And any cash or securities is a claim. You don’t own it, because it’s in the institution’s possession.

Bitcoin is final settlement when self custodian. The banks can have their holidays, BTC is 24/7

I foolishly paid for online services with BTC in the past. For now I’m not selling as the world is adopting it in real time. If I’m pressed for cash, I’ll risk it by taking a loan against it.
 
You must have been living under a rock these past 15 years. Bitcoin went from nothing to 2 trillion market cap and rapidly climbing. Its now legal tender in 2 countries. USA, China, UK, Ukraine, Bhutan, El salvador, Finland, and unofficially Russia and North Korea all have substantial bitcoin reserves. Blackrock, state street, vanguard etc amassing bitcoin and filing for bitcoin ETF’s. Organizational investments from multiple s&p companies as well as top companies in other countries. Zero signs of slowing. Are you mental?
Nvidia went up by alot too. Doesnt mean its a currency.

In fact, that increase in value alone would preclude it as a useful currency. You dont seem to understand that. A currency has to have a stable value

Its considered property in the US for taxes, NOT a currency
 
Its both. A guy paid for a pizza with 10,000 bitcoins once. Its just a currency in the “early adoption phase”. Look up the phases of adoption of currency. And soon here it will be in the “early widespread adoption” phase. The fact that there are bitcoin atm’s all over the malls in my town tells me its a currency. As a matter of fact, here, you can use this to see how many bitcoin atms are near you.

You can trade a pokemon card for pizza too. Doesnt mean its a currency.

In prison, they use top ramen and cigarettes as payment for goods. Are they currencies too?
 
And any cash or securities is a claim. You don’t own it, because it’s in the institution’s possession.

Bitcoin is final settlement when self custodian. The banks can have their holidays, BTC is 24/7

I foolishly paid for online services with BTC in the past. For now I’m not selling as the world is adopting it in real time. If I’m pressed for cash, I’ll risk it by taking a loan against it.
Thats right. For me its also reserve capitol for the long term.
 
You can trade a pokemon card for pizza too. Doesnt mean its a currency.

In prison, they use top ramen and cigarettes as payment for goods. Are they currencies too?
Can you exchange pokemon cards for cash at an atm? Or vise versa? No. Pokemon cards are not durable, divisible, fungible, therefore they dont have the properties of currency, ya dodo. The definition of a currency is a standardized quanta whose purpose is to act as a medium of exchange. Bitcoin ticks all those boxes, even more boxes than fiat.

And on what planet is currency not property? And im not referring to tax classifications.
 
You’re still not understanding the power of bitcoins decentralization. The government cant do anything about it. They cant put that genie back in the bottle. Will they persecute people who use bitcoin? Maybe but it would be unwise, because people would flee. The whole entire beauty of bitcoin is that its NON-SOVEREIGN. I dunno how else to explain this to you. The government does not get to control or uncontrol bitcoin. They can only control and inflate their own crap fiat. Bitcoin got to this point all on its own by the choice of the people. The people chose to opt into a system free of fiat slavery.

Lets say people did flee the us and took their btc to thailand. How easy is it to get local currency from the btc?
 
Can you exchange pokemon cards for cash at an atm? Or vise versa? No. Pokemon cards are not durable, divisible, fungible, therefore they dont have the properties of currency, ya dodo. The definition of a currency is a standardized quanta whose purpose is to act as a medium of exchange. Bitcoin ticks all those boxes, even more boxes than fiat.

And on what planet is currency not property? And im not referring to tax classifications.
Where can you exchange pokemon cards for cash? They are called stores. And you can go to those stores, and they will give you back cash in exchange

Lol. US tax laws are pretty critical. And they treat bitcoin as property, not currency.

Bitcoin isnt a standardized quanta (it valued has skyrocketed!). So it doesnt even meet your own definition lol.
 
Lets say people did flee the us and took their btc to thailand. How easy is it to get local currency from the btc?
Thailand is one the most bitcoin friendly countries out there. They also have bitcoin atms everywhere. But you dont even need atms. You just need an exchange app on your phone linked to a bank account. In fact there is a guy gamed didi, hes famous because he sold his house and cars and all his other property to buy bitcoin. Guess where he moved to. Thailand. Lived there for a few years until recently moving to spain due to security concerns.
 
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Where can you exchange pokemon cards for cash? They are called stores. And you can go to those stores, and they will give you back cash in exchange

Lol. US tax laws are pretty critical. And they treat bitcoin as property, not currency.

Bitcoin isnt a standardized quanta (it valued has skyrocketed!). So it doesnt even meet your own definition lol.
You dont understand currency. Ive read entire books on currency. What you’re saying is completely stupid. Comparing bitcoin to pokemon cards. You could compare meme coins to collectibles. You might have called bitcoin a collectible or a novelty in phase 1 of its adoption, before it was actually worth much and wasn't being posted on exchanges along with all other credible currencies. The same way people used seashells as currency before gold. We’re long past that.

Honestly, whether it is or isnt a “currency” is a stupid thing to dwell on, because whether its a currency or not its most definitely proven to be an excellent store of wealth. Bitcoin falls into the same category as gold. Its a commodity. But gold can also be a currency can it not? It was used as a currency for millenia before fiat currencies. I suppose you would deny gold is a currency as well? The point is currency is decided upon between two parties as a medium of exchange in order to allow for the sealing of a deal. Gold can in fact serve that purpose, as can bitcoin.

Buddy I dont know how to un-**** your thinking on this. So do whatever you want. Sit in your chair and do nothing and I’ll sit in mine and ridicule you over the next few years while I get richer on bitcoin.
 
Thailand is one the most bitcoin friendly countries out there. They also have bitcoin atms everywhere. But you dont even need atms. You just an exchange app on your phone linked to a bank account. In fact there is a guy gamed didi, hes famous because he sold his house and cars and all his other property to buy bitcoin. Guess where he moved to. Thailand. Lived there for a few years until recently moving to spain due to security concerns.

Props on continuing to give info to all those that seek or fight the inevitable ( where do you get the energy to keep fighting the haterz!?)

Btc is going to 400k in 2029 fairly easily. Its going to get close to 200k this cycle. Its just ridiciulous this damn thing is so fricking amazing.

I just feel bad because everyone deserves to retire or cut back esp those who have had a long road in medicine. We r not here bragging but literally on the PA giant speaker telling everyone please BUY and HOLD and get off 0 because you can reap a ton of the upside.

Direct has been on here since at least 10k about 5 years ago and its done a 12x. When bitcoin gets to 1m he needs to be upgraded and honored to the hall of fame on SDN with a bitcoin medalion on his avatar.
 
You dont understand currency. Ive read entire books on currency. What you’re saying is completely stupid. Comparing bitcoin to pokemon cards. You could compare meme coins to collectibles. You might have called bitcoin a collectible or a novelty in phase 1 of its adoption, before it was actually worth much and wasn't being posted on exchanges along with all other credible currencies. The same way people used seashells as currency before gold. We’re long past that.

Honestly, whether it is or isnt a “currency” is a stupid thing to dwell on, because whether its a currency or not its most definitely proven to be an excellent store of wealth. Bitcoin falls into the same category as gold. Its a commodity. But gold can also be a currency can it not? It was used as a currency for millenia before fiat currencies. I suppose you would deny gold is a currency as well? The point is currency is decided upon between two parties as a medium of exchange in order to allow for the sealing of a deal. Gold can in fact serve that purpose, as can bitcoin.

Buddy I dont know how to un-**** your thinking on this. So do whatever you want. Sit in your chair and do nothing and I’ll sit in mine and ridicule you over the next few years while I get richer on bitcoin.
Oil is a commodity. Sheep is a commodity. Gold WAS a currency, now its a commodity... outside of 3rd world countries. Know anyone that buys groceries or pays employees in gold? Dont think so

"Currency is a medium of exchange to allow for sealing of a deal"... Ok. So if i give my friend a 6 pack of model to help me move ..is the beer currency? No. That's bartering. Not a transaction using currency

So clearly thats not the definition

As you said yourself, or did you forget, it needs to be a standardized quanta (among many other things as well, including wide acceptance, stable, exist in sufficient quantities and denominations to enable daily transactions, widely accepted as a final mode of payment for good or services). Bitcoin is none of those things and fiat currency is all of them.

If i go to 100 stores and offer to pay with bitcoin, ill get turned away from 99-100 of them. If i ask those stores if they pay their vendors in bitcoin? None. Pay employees in bitcoin? None

If its a commodity, then its NOT a currency
 
Props on continuing to give info to all those that seek or fight the inevitable ( where do you get the energy to keep fighting the haterz!?)

Btc is going to 400k in 2029 fairly easily. Its going to get close to 200k this cycle. Its just ridiciulous this damn thing is so fricking amazing.

I just feel bad because everyone deserves to retire or cut back esp those who have had a long road in medicine. We r not here bragging but literally on the PA giant speaker telling everyone please BUY and HOLD and get off 0 because you can reap a ton of the upside.

Direct has been on here since at least 10k about 5 years ago and its done a 12x. When bitcoin gets to 1m he needs to be upgraded and honored to the hall of fame on SDN with a bitcoin medalion on his avatar.
Its just shocking how people come on here and **** on btc like they understand their a$$ from their elbow. I legitimately wonder if some of them are really that stupid or if they are just bad actors, and want to sabotage people.

All Im trying to do is spread the word of bitcoin because in my mind and heart, its the closest thing to God’s money. Im glad that somebody came and smacked me around and opened my eyes up to it, and Im just trying to pay it forward.
 
Its just shocking how people come on here and **** on btc like they understand their a$$ from their elbow. I legitimately wonder if some of them are really that stupid or if they are just bad actors, and want to sabotage people.

All Im trying to do is spread the word of bitcoin because in my mind and heart, its the closest thing to God’s money. Im glad that somebody came and smacked me around and opened my eyes up to it, and Im just trying to pay it forward.
I think you lose all credibility when you aay Gods money.

Most people on here assumed that was a joke?
 
Oil is a commodity. Sheep is a commodity. Gold WAS a currency, now its a commodity... outside of 3rd world countries. Know anyone that buys groceries or pays employees in gold? Dont think so

"Currency is a medium of exchange to allow for sealing of a deal"... Ok. So if i give my friend a 6 pack of model to help me move ..is the beer currency? No. That's bartering. Not a transaction using currency

So clearly thats not the definition

As you said yourself, or did you forget, it needs to be a standardized quanta (among many other things as well, including wide acceptance, stable, exist in sufficient quantities and denominations to enable daily transactions, widely accepted as a final mode of payment for good or services). Bitcoin is none of those things and fiat currency is all of them.

If i go to 100 stores and offer to pay with bitcoin, ill get turned away from 99-100 of them. If i ask those stores if they pay their vendors in bitcoin? None. Pay employees in bitcoin? None

If its a commodity, then its NOT a currency
Good God. Ive never seen somebody use such ignorant arguments while clearly demonstrating they have no depth of knowledge on the subject. I mean, you are making a fool of yourself. You clearly dont understand how an exchange on goods or services works using currency, or what properties make up a currency. Just stop.

Bitcoin can be used as a currency because its scarce, valuable, durable, divisible, fungible and portable. Does beer tick those boxes? No. Currency is whatever the two parties agree upon as a MEDIUM of exchange that HAS THOSE PROPERTIES and is an adopted standard. As in a medium like gold coins, or cash, or BITCOIN. Sheesh.
 
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