Bitcoin... currency of the future or fraud/scam/bubble?

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sevo00 said:
The biggest meme is the US dollar. What is the dollar backed by?
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nimbus said:
Wider institutional adoption will likely drive BTC toward more centralized control and regulation. Which kind of defeats the point.
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Generally yes.

Bitcoin remains a great solution... unfortunately nobody has figured out what the problem is yet
 
aneftp said:
Because idiots (well I won’t go that far) but knuckleheads with ideology like you tend to have more mental health disorders. It’s true. Do the research. Facts bro.
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When did we start talking about mental health disorders?

Will that be covered by the ACA?

Can i pay my co-pay with Bitcoin?
 
UscGhost said:
When did we start talking about mental health disorders?

Will that be covered by the ACA?

Can i pay my co-pay with Bitcoin?
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Again. This all started with Num tacos discussion with Tesla coil and bitcoin and num tacos wanting insight if Tesla coil thought about bitcoin day and night
 
We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes said:
The thing is why should I read about Bitcoin? We are in a massive ai explosion and I have a large amount of money in accelerated ai holdings. The rest is in gold taking a breather after a rapid 75% run-up. There's just no need to read about something I've looked into and am not convinced of. I guess I'll just have to just suffer with massive ai gains. Wo is me haha.

In all seriousness, good luck. It's just not for me and too much uncertainty for my liking.
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Im in AI too. You still dont get it. Thats fine. Do whatever you want lol.
 
UscGhost said:
Well, it could go up, down or crash.

The problem is, it has no inherent value. So its value isnt based on anything concrete. Its usefulness (as the free mans, currency still works whether its worth $1, 100$ or 1 million per coin). And 99% of people dont use it as a currency anyways.

People are just investing because they see it increasing in value. Once it starts to dip, then people will pull out and it will plummet.

But hey, keep making money 💰
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No inherent value. 😂 man. You clearly dont know how money works. A money that cannot be inflated or corrupted and has all the qualities of a good form of money- no inherent value?. For the 800th time. It does not need any backing. Its the thing thats going to be DOING the backing. Like gold.
 
We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes said:
If you don't know what the dollar is backed by you might want to go learn.
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Clearly you don’t know either that’s why you didn’t answer the question. It’s backed by trust in the US government, yeah the government is def trust worthy
And l like how you totally ignored by point about gold since you have no rebuttal for it
 
TeslaCoil said:
Im in AI too. You still dont get it. Thats fine. Do whatever you want lol.
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Some AI stocks are not equal

I got burned on upstart upst down 95% when i sold it last fall for $24/share. Got it at $360/share 120k worth of shares

Upstart uses AI for lending and make approvals faster…except interest rates starting going up shortly after it peaked at $400/share from $40 ipo price.

AMD is also so far behind the AI change. I think amd lost their ways trying to compete other cpu side with intel and Nvidia strictly did the graphics thing
 
We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes said:
The thing is why should I read about Bitcoin? We are in a massive ai explosion and I have a large amount of money in accelerated ai holdings. The rest is in gold taking a breather after a rapid 75% run-up. There's just no need to read about something I've looked into and am not convinced of. I guess I'll just have to just suffer with massive ai gains. Wo is me haha.

In all seriousness, good luck. It's just not for me and too much uncertainty for my liking.
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Most younger people prefer digital gold to physical gold. It’s just easier. You mention AI, but going forward most likely fintech will be on the blockchain. You might be missing out on that run up.
 
TeslaCoil said:
No inherent value. 😂 man. You clearly dont know how money works. A money that cannot be inflated or corrupted and has all the qualities of a good form of money- no inherent value?. For the 800th time. It does not need any backing. Its the thing thats going to be DOING the backing. Like gold.
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It will never replace government currency..why would any first world government give up control of its currency?

Being able to control your own currency is a valuable economic tool.

Besides, the rich and powerful will simply own a large portion of bitcoin, which they basically already do, and then they will have outsized control over its value.

Its speculative hedge against inflation. Just like pokemon cards, or wine, etc
 
UscGhost said:
It will never replace government currency..why would any first world government give up control of its currency?

Being able to control your own currency is a valuable economic tool.

Besides, the rich and powerful will simply own a large portion of bitcoin, which they basically already do, and then they will have outsized control over its value.

Its speculative hedge against inflation. Just like pokemon cards, or wine, etc
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I will once again refer you to the actual definition and properties of money. Bitcoin meets those and some. In fact it is the best form of money ever invented. Pokemon cards and wine dont have those properties. Once again for the 800th time, are pokemon cards divisible? Fungible? Durable? Do they require proof or work like gold and bitcoin? Are they stored on a decentralized public blockchain ledger thats immutable, secure and standardized?

The more you liken bitcoin to collectibles the more you discredit yourself to anybody with decent economics knowledge. Its just ridiculous. Just sayin.

Also, if the government has any sense in their brains they will return to some kind of backed standard. If I were you I would do some more self educating on macroeconomics and the history of the dollar. Very eye opening. One of the absolute worst things to ever happen to US is coming off the gold standard to pay for something as stupid as the vietnam war. Its been all downhill from there.
 
TeslaCoil said:
I will once again refer you to the actual definition and properties of money. Bitcoin meets those and some. In fact it is the best form of money ever invented. Pokemon cards and wine dont have those properties. Once again for the 800th time, are pokemon cards divisible? Fungible? Durable? Do they require proof or work like gold and bitcoin? Are they stored on a decentralized public blockchain ledger thats immutable, secure and standardized?

The more you liken bitcoin to collectibles the more you discredit yourself to anybody with decent economics knowledge. Its just ridiculous. Just sayin.

Also, if the government has any sense in their brains they will return to some kind of backed standard. If I were you I would do some more self educating on macroeconomics and the history of the dollar. Very eye opening. One of the absolute worst things to ever happen to US is coming off the gol standard to pay for something as stupid as the vietnam war. Its been all downhill from there.
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Its the best form of currency that virtually nobody uses as a currency. Its volatility, limited supply and lack of widespread use precludes its use as a currency

Furthermore, its much too difficult to use for everyday transactions, the system isnt even remotely close to being able to handle that, there is no incentive or reason to create systems that do handle that
 
UscGhost said:
Its the best form of currency that virtually nobody uses as a currency. Its volatility, limited supply and lack of widespread use precludes its use as a currency

Furthermore, its much too difficult to use for everyday transactions, the system isnt even remotely close to being able to handle that, there is no incentive or reason to create systems that do handle that
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God dude. Its in the early phase of adoption! These are all macroeconomics principals of monetary adoption. READ ABOUT IT. 😂

It has already begun to stabilize and will be stabilizing for another 10-20-30 years until widespread adoption. Thats the point at which you’ll be kicking yourself in the a$$.

How many times do I have to say, there are improvements in the works that make it easier to transact with. Good lord.
 
TeslaCoil said:
God dude. Its in the early phase of adoption! These are all macroeconomics principals of monetary adoption. READ ABOUT IT. 😂

It has already begun to stabilize and will be stabilizing for another 10-20-30 years until widespread adoption. Thats the point at which you’ll be kicking yourself in the a$$.

How many times do I have to say, there are improvements in the works that make it easier to transact with. Good lord.
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Sounds nice. Except there it doesnt really pan out that way.

Lets make some base assumptions here.

1. Why does the fed target inflation at 2%? Why not deflation at 2%. One of the many reasons, is that deflation is terrible for an economy.
--so a currency that increases in value is deflationary
--a hedge against that (real estate, stocks, gold, bitcoin) will not function as a regular currency because of that

2. Why would a government adopt bitcoin as a currency and give up monetary policy control? It wouldn't. Government isn't in the business of giving up control to the people. Not to mention the entire banking/lending systems

3. So business, taxes, exchange will still primarily occur with the government supported currency. Otherwise...if i am a business, i cant pay people in crypto. If i did, and i pay 1 bitcoin a week, what happens if bitcoin value goes up 10%..do i now pay them less? Do they claim taxes on the gain? Do i need to hold Bitcoin reserves in order to pay employees? What happens if my reserves decrease in value? A huge host of problems

4. So your argument is that well th value will stabilize. Ok, stabilize at what rate of growth? +/- 3% maybe? Well we will ignore the fact that 3% growth is deflationary, and terrible for an economy. Do you think anyone is interested in buying and holding Bitcoin for +/- 3% when i can get 10% stocks? No. 99% of people hold bitcoin because its going up fast ..they ain't holding it for 3%

So either people will use it as a currency because its stable in value or they will keep it as an investment because it goes up 10% per year...but those are opposing scenarios that cant co exist

5. Is your argument that its technically a currency because people can use it as a medium of exchange. Ok...but 99% of people dont. And there is very little reason for them to do so unless they are trying to get around sanctions, black market or highly unique scenarios . And there are 10000 cryptocurrencies that could all do the same thing.

6. You argued that gold is a currency too. Yes, technically. But virtually nobody uses it as a daily currency. 99% of it is as an investment, store of value. But you are arguing that Bitcoin will compete with and even replace the dollar as a daily currency..

7. Would you expect every business, bank, vendor, employee to check daily bitcoin values prior to making a transaction? No

So in the end, it will remain a store of value as long as it continues to increase in value 5-10% per year. If it stabilizes, then no need to use it as a store of value (alternatives with better returns at that point). But if ot stabilizes, then nobody will need to buy it. It will increase in value as long as people think it will increase in value..until they dont.

Don't get me wrong. I think its a fun idea, i have some crypto and i have even used it on occasion. But there are vast mountains it would need to climb before it becomes a mainstream currency...and there isnt a clear advantage to it becoming one. It has far more advantages remaining as a hedge and store of value than as a currency.
 
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UscGhost said:
Sounds nice. Except there it doesnt really pan out that way.

Lets make some base assumptions here.

1. Why does the fed target inflation at 2%? Why not deflation at 2%. One of the many reasons, is that deflation is terrible for an economy.
--so a currency that increases in value is deflationary
--a hedge against that (real estate, stocks, gold, bitcoin) will not function as a regular currency because of that

2. Why would a government adopt bitcoin as a currency and give up monetary policy control? It wouldn't. Government isn't in the business of giving up control to the people. Not to mention the entire banking/lending systems

3. So business, taxes, exchange will still primarily occur with the government supported currency. Otherwise...if i am a business, i cant pay people in crypto. If i did, and i pay 1 bitcoin a week, what happens if bitcoin value goes up 10%..do i now pay them less? Do they claim taxes on the gain? Do i need to hold Bitcoin reserves in order to pay employees? What happens if my reserves decrease in value? A huge host of problems

4. So your argument is that well th value will stabilize. Ok, stabilize at what rate of growth? +/- 3% maybe? Well we will ignore the fact that 3% growth is deflationary, and terrible for an economy. Do you think anyone is interested in buying and holding Bitcoin for +/- 3% when i can get 10% stocks? No. 99% of people hold bitcoin because its going up fast ..they ain't holding it for 3%

So either people will use it as a currency because its stable in value or they will keep it as an investment because it goes up 10% per year...but those are opposing scenarios that cant co exist

5. Is your argument that its technically a currency because people can use it as a medium of exchange. Ok...but 99% of people dont. And there is very little reason for them to do so unless they are trying to get around sanctions, black market or highly unique scenarios . And there are 10000 cryptocurrencies that could all do the same thing.

6. You argued that gold is a currency too. Yes, technically. But virtually nobody uses it as a daily currency. 99% of it is as an investment, store of value. But you are arguing that Bitcoin will compete with and even replace the dollar as a daily currency..

7. Would you expect every business, bank, vendor, employee to check daily bitcoin values prior to making a transaction? No

So in the end, it will remain a store of value as long as it continues to increase in value 5-10% per year. If it stabilizes, then no need to use it as a store of value (alternatives with better returns at that point). But if ot stabilizes, then nobody will need to buy it. It will increase in value as long as people think it will increase in value..until they dont.

Don't get me wrong. I think its a fun idea, i have some crypto and i have even used it on occasion. But there are vast mountains it would need to climb before it becomes a mainstream currency...and there isnt a clear advantage to it becoming one. It has far more advantages remaining as a hedge and store of value than as a currency.
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Like the president of the usa coming out with their own meme coin lol i cannot believe how far things have come in crypto where everyone in the white house is a btc fanboy. Dimon, Fink, and even schwaub onboard. Now only vanguard is left not allowing clients to buy etf's directly yet even they own the largest mstr position??

Next 5 years are going to be crazy. Almost 120k with sky high interest rates and no official QE yet. if we get 200k this cycle and then closer to 400k in 2029 who knows what's next for the space but price going up will continue and that will opens doors into things that wouldn't seem possible otherwise.
 
finalpsychyear said:
Like the president of the usa coming out with their own meme coin lol i cannot believe how far things have come in crypto where everyone in the white house is a btc fanboy. Dimon, Fink, and even schwaub onboard. Now only vanguard is left not allowing clients to buy etf's directly yet even they own the largest mstr position??

Next 5 years are going to be crazy. Almost 120k with sky high interest rates and no official QE yet. if we get 200k this cycle and then closer to 400k in 2029 who knows what's next for the space but price going up will continue and that will opens doors into things that wouldn't seem possible otherwise.
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Well. We will see what happens with supply and demand

Will the old whales start cashing out?

Will the existing owners and governments feel diversified enough to reduce purchases as it gets more expensive

Will purchases decrease as ROI decreases

Will more buyers come in as it becomes easier to purchase?

What happens when price increase slows down, will capital flow to other investments seeking greater returns

Bitcoin is very young and new in the grand scheme of investments
 
UscGhost said:
Well. We will see what happens with supply and demand

Will the old whales start cashing out?

Will the existing owners and governments feel diversified enough to reduce purchases as it gets more expensive

Will purchases decrease as ROI decreases

Will more buyers come in as it becomes easier to purchase?

What happens when price increase slows down, will capital flow to other investments seeking greater returns

Bitcoin is very young and new in the grand scheme of investments
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The only reason for old whales to ever cash out is if they believe crypto is over. They can simply borrow against their positions and keep their BTC for eternity.
 
nimbus said:
The only reason for old whales to ever cash out is if they believe crypto is over. They can simply borrow against their positions and keep their BTC for eternity.
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You could borrow against it...very high risk though.
 
nimbus said:
Not if you’re a whale. Why would you sell and take a capital gains hit? Borrowing=no tax consequences.
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Yes and apparently they dont even make min payment they just roll the exisiting loan to the next one provided collateral exisits.
 
UscGhost said:
Sounds nice. Except there it doesnt really pan out that way.

Lets make some base assumptions here.

1. Why does the fed target inflation at 2%? Why not deflation at 2%. One of the many reasons, is that deflation is terrible for an economy.
--so a currency that increases in value is deflationary
--a hedge against that (real estate, stocks, gold, bitcoin) will not function as a regular currency because of that

2. Why would a government adopt bitcoin as a currency and give up monetary policy control? It wouldn't. Government isn't in the business of giving up control to the people. Not to mention the entire banking/lending systems

3. So business, taxes, exchange will still primarily occur with the government supported currency. Otherwise...if i am a business, i cant pay people in crypto. If i did, and i pay 1 bitcoin a week, what happens if bitcoin value goes up 10%..do i now pay them less? Do they claim taxes on the gain? Do i need to hold Bitcoin reserves in order to pay employees? What happens if my reserves decrease in value? A huge host of problems

4. So your argument is that well th value will stabilize. Ok, stabilize at what rate of growth? +/- 3% maybe? Well we will ignore the fact that 3% growth is deflationary, and terrible for an economy. Do you think anyone is interested in buying and holding Bitcoin for +/- 3% when i can get 10% stocks? No. 99% of people hold bitcoin because its going up fast ..they ain't holding it for 3%

So either people will use it as a currency because its stable in value or they will keep it as an investment because it goes up 10% per year...but those are opposing scenarios that cant co exist

5. Is your argument that its technically a currency because people can use it as a medium of exchange. Ok...but 99% of people dont. And there is very little reason for them to do so unless they are trying to get around sanctions, black market or highly unique scenarios . And there are 10000 cryptocurrencies that could all do the same thing.

6. You argued that gold is a currency too. Yes, technically. But virtually nobody uses it as a daily currency. 99% of it is as an investment, store of value. But you are arguing that Bitcoin will compete with and even replace the dollar as a daily currency..

7. Would you expect every business, bank, vendor, employee to check daily bitcoin values prior to making a transaction? No

So in the end, it will remain a store of value as long as it continues to increase in value 5-10% per year. If it stabilizes, then no need to use it as a store of value (alternatives with better returns at that point). But if ot stabilizes, then nobody will need to buy it. It will increase in value as long as people think it will increase in value..until they dont.

Don't get me wrong. I think its a fun idea, i have some crypto and i have even used it on occasion. But there are vast mountains it would need to climb before it becomes a mainstream currency...and there isnt a clear advantage to it becoming one. It has far more advantages remaining as a hedge and store of value than as a currency.
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1) You are referring to Keynesian economic theories which are not completely accurate. There are several schools of thought out there including the austrian school of economics which has shown that a deflationary economy is not as bad as the fiat phonies would have you believe. Its true that uncontrolled deflation is bad for economic growth, but for one we arent referring to the dollar. We are referring to a new class of asset, which is finite and scarce, and serves several notable functions and therefore money flows into it as a form of preservation. It will continue to rise in value possibly indefinitely. But at some point the flow of capital into bitcoin will come to equilibrium with other asset classes. That wont be for quite a while. Therefore, if one does not buy bitcoin now, one is an idiot in my book.

2) The government may not not necessarily “adopt” bitcoin as a currency but eventually once a bitcoin reaches multimillions a government may want to use bitcoin as a reserve asset much like gold was at one point. If the government would pull its head out of its @$$, thats exactly what they would do. Nimbus up there prefers that we just hold a gun to the worlds head, im sure that’ll work great. Well while her kids or grandkids are fighting world war 3, I’ll have left this sinking $hitshow with my keyphrase memorized. There is a reason why all governments are amassing bitcoin. Its because they realize its the only sensible thing they can do. If they dont they will be left behind.

3) the fact is ALL currencies rise and fall. It just so happens that you’re used to using a well established currency but even that has seen a large change in value even in the last 5 years. You prefer being slowly boiled to death by inflation. I prefer to buy into an uninflatable money which clearly will continue to rise in value against all inflationary currencies. But, technically you can pay your employees in whatever currency they would accept. I for instance, have been taking fiat dollars and converting them to bitcoin at whatever current rate. How is that much different from being paid in bitcoin at the present rate?

4) yes. It will stabilize of course as it comes to equilibrium of capital flow. Its CAGR has been slowly dropping over the past 15 years and it will continue to. But for at least the next 20-30 years you can expect AT LEAST a 15-20% appreciation per year.

5) My argument is who cares! It IS a form of money, capital asset, currency, whatever you want to call it. Whether you like it or not. Those are the properties it possesses. Fact is people DO transact with it. And it IS a medium of exchange. Of course not at the same level as dollars, its only 15 years old and hasnt reached that level yet.

6) I never argued that it will replace the dollar. But it may compete in certain aspects. Eventually I think if the US has any sense it will create a sovereign wealth fund like other intelligent countries in order to back its currency. Bitcoin included. Otherwise face being outpaced by foreign megapowers.

7) You do realize people exchange currencies everyday? Like pound to dollar, dollar to yen, yen to bitcoin, bitcoin to dollar, and yes they use the CURRENT RATE OF EXCHANGE. Have you never left the country?

You are exhausting. Bitcoin will go to $150k minimum by years end, then pull back to 110k in 26-27, then blast to 250-500k by 2029. That is a BASE case. It could easily go parabolic as exchange reserves get bought up. Up to you if you’re gonna just sit here and try to force every reason not to buy it.
 
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Splenda88 said:
I was told that how the rich got away with paying very low taxes.... borrow against their assets.
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The oldest trick business and rich do. All scams. But they make the laws and it’s all legal until they get caught.

Even our field anesthesia. See the scams kkr funny money purchased Envison with fake assets/IOU/interest only bonds for 9 billion.

Back in 2007 the Sam zell supposedly put 312 million in “equity” towards his 9 billion dollar purchase of Chicago tribune plus a bunch of other investors like KKR

All of these dudes and companies just have fake money. Turns out Sam zell really only put up around 50 million (still a lot of money) of the 312 million “equity” in the deal. Of a 9 billion dollar deal.

Zell and his partners ended up paying a 200 million fine in 2019. Chump change for these guys.
 
aneftp said:
The oldest trick business and rich do. All scams. But they make the laws and it’s all legal until they get caught.

Even our field anesthesia. See the scams kkr funny money purchased Envison with fake assets/IOU/interest only bonds for 9 billion.

Back in 2007 the Sam zell supposedly put 312 million in “equity” towards his 9 billion dollar purchase of Chicago tribune plus a bunch of other investors like KKR

All of these dudes and companies just have fake money. Turns out Sam zell really only put up around 50 million (still a lot of money) of the 312 million “equity” in the deal. Of a 9 billion dollar deal.

Zell and his partners ended up paying a 200 million fine in 2019. Chump change for these guys.
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The system is rigged. People are starting to wake up to that.
 
Splenda88 said:
The system is rigged. People are starting to wake up to that.
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Thats exactly why bitcoin is successful. Bitcoin built upon several forms of digital money that came previously- hashcash, ecash, bit gold, b-money. All of those failed for reasons which were all refined and distilled to finally culminate in the creation of bitcoin.
 
ak_ps said:
has anyone here transferred their crypto assets from conventional accounts/apps such as coinbase to their own individual wallets?

any tips or advice?
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I use a Trezor wallet.

There are others out there.

You can easily transfer from coinbase to your wallet.

I will buy Bitcoin or ethereum on coinbase and then transfer within a day or so to my wallet.

Very easy and you have full control of your crypto.
 
anonperson said:
I use a Trezor wallet.

There are others out there.

You can easily transfer from coinbase to your wallet.

I will buy Bitcoin or ethereum on coinbase and then transfer within a day or so to my wallet.

Very easy and you have full control of your crypto.
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Why do you have to transfer it to a wallet? Coinbase is not safe?
 
nimbus said:
Not if you’re a whale. Why would you sell and take a capital gains hit? Borrowing=no tax consequences.
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High risk investment
TeslaCoil said:
1) You are referring to Keynesian economic theories which are not completely accurate. There are several schools of thought out there including the austrian school of economics which has shown that a deflationary economy is not as bad as the fiat phonies would have you believe. Its true that uncontrolled deflation is bad for economic growth, but for one we arent referring to the dollar. We are referring to a new class of asset, which is finite and scarce, and serves several notable functions and therefore money flows into it as a form of preservation. It will continue to rise in value possibly indefinitely. But at some point the flow of capital into bitcoin will come to equilibrium with other asset classes. That wont be for quite a while. Therefore, if one does not buy bitcoin now, one is an idiot in my book.

2) The government may not not necessarily “adopt” bitcoin as a currency but eventually once a bitcoin reaches multimillions a government may want to use bitcoin as a reserve asset much like gold was at one point. If the government would pull its head out of its @$$, thats exactly what they would do. Nimbus up there prefers that we just hold a gun to the worlds head, im sure that’ll work great. Well while her kids or grandkids are fighting world war 3, I’ll have left this sinking $hitshow with my keyphrase memorized. There is a reason why all governments are amassing bitcoin. Its because they realize its the only sensible thing they can do. If they dont they will be left behind.

3) the fact is ALL currencies rise and fall. It just so happens that you’re used to using a well established currency but even that has seen a large change in value even in the last 5 years. You prefer being slowly boiled to death by inflation. I prefer to buy into an uninflatable money which clearly will continue to rise in value against all inflationary currencies. But, technically you can pay your employees in whatever currency they would accept. I for instance, have been taking fiat dollars and converting them to bitcoin at whatever current rate. How is that much different from being paid in bitcoin at the present rate?

4) yes. It will stabilize of course as it comes to equilibrium of capital flow. Its CAGR has been slowly dropping over the past 15 years and it will continue to. But for at least the next 20-30 years you can expect AT LEAST a 15-20% appreciation per year.

5) My argument is who cares! It IS a form of money, capital asset, currency, whatever you want to call it. Whether you like it or not. Those are the properties it possesses. Fact is people DO transact with it. And it IS a medium of exchange. Of course not at the same level as dollars, its only 15 years old and hasnt reached that level yet.

6) I never argued that it will replace the dollar. But it may compete in certain aspects. Eventually I think if the US has any sense it will create a sovereign wealth fund like other intelligent countries in order to back its currency. Bitcoin included. Otherwise face being outpaced by foreign megapowers.

7) You do realize people exchange currencies everyday? Like pound to dollar, dollar to yen, yen to bitcoin, bitcoin to dollar, and yes they use the CURRENT RATE OF EXCHANGE. Have you never left the country?

You are exhausting. Bitcoin will go to $150k minimum by years end, then pull back to 110k in 26-27, then blast to 250-500k by 2029. That is a BASE case. It could easily go parabolic as exchange reserves get bought up. Up to you if you’re gonna just sit here and try to force every reason not to buy it.
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1. I wouldnt expect economic policy to be entirely re-written just because of bitcoin.

2. Unlikely governments will utilize it as a significant reserve asset as its too volatile and it could be at risk of influence from those who own large amount of it

3. Bitcoin cant realistically be used to make payments to employees for the multitude of reasons i listed. A amall amount of inflation is generally preferable

4. If it appreciates 15-20% per year, then its unusable as an everyday currency..as that requires value stability. So it will remain a speculative investment. Once it stabilizes in value, then it will no longer be a worthwhile investment (people arent interested in 3% returns)

5. People also CAN transact with pokemon cards and use it as a medium of exchange, but neither are used that way by the vast vast majority

6. Sovereign wealth fund is a great idea. Funded by what?

7. Do people exchange currency to buy groceries, pay rent, bills...not in any meaningful amount

Again, it's either an investment or a currency. It would fail if it tried to be both.

Right now 99.9% treat it as an investment
 
UscGhost said:
High risk investment

1. I wouldnt expect economic policy to be entirely re-written just because of bitcoin.

2. Unlikely governments will utilize it as a significant reserve asset as its too volatile and it could be at risk of influence from those who own large amount of it

3. Bitcoin cant realistically be used to make payments to employees for the multitude of reasons i listed. A amall amount of inflation is generally preferable

4. If it appreciates 15-20% per year, then its unusable as an everyday currency..as that requires value stability. So it will remain a speculative investment. Once it stabilizes in value, then it will no longer be a worthwhile investment (people arent interested in 3% returns)

5. People also CAN transact with pokemon cards and use it as a medium of exchange, but neither are used that way by the vast vast majority

6. Sovereign wealth fund is a great idea. Funded by what?

7. Do people exchange currency to buy groceries, pay rent, bills...not in any meaningful amount

Again, it's either an investment or a currency. It would fail if it tried to be both.

Right now 99.9% treat it as an investment
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1. You’re gonna be super surprised When you finally realize its already happening.

2. What are you talking about? Two countries already made it their native currency. And countries 100% are already amassing it as a reserve asset including the US.

3.bitcoin most definitely can and has been used to pay anyone for almosg anything. But okay keep living in your lala land.

4. No it does not require value stability. People exchange currency at whatever the current rate is on the daily. Bitcoin is no different.

5. Again w the pokemon cards. Is there such a thing as a pokemon ETF? Ya dummy. Pokemon exchange rate? Can your charizard be divided into 1/1,000,000th of a charizard? Can you use your charizard to get money into a warzone like ukraine? Keep talking you’re doing my work for me.

6. Funded in tax neutral ways. Ask norway, china, abu dahbi. They are rich af because of their sovereign wealth funds.

7. Moot point. Nobody cares. Its a form of money. It holds value and you can use it as a medium of exchange.

Its like talking to a wall.
 
TeslaCoil said:
Coinbase is a hot wallet. Meaning susceptible to attacks. Always transfer to cold wallet. Watch some youtube vids on the best cold wallets and how to secure your crypto properly.
Click to expand...
Wow. I almost pulled the trigger on 2 bitcoin purchase when it was at 17k (believe it was in 2022) using coinable. I thought these platforms are secured just like Fidelity, Vanguard etc...
 
Splenda88 said:
Wow. I almost pulled the trigger on 2 bitcoin purchase when it was at 17k (believe it was in 2022) using coinable. I thought these platforms are secured just like Fidelity, Vanguard etc...
Click to expand...
Yea definitely not… coinbase is pretty damned secure by now since they’ve improved several notable things. If you become a coinbase one member trades are free and you get $10k insurance. In general though, orders more secure to transfer to a cold wallet asap.
 
TeslaCoil said:
Coinbase is a hot wallet. Meaning susceptible to attacks. Always transfer to cold wallet. Watch some youtube vids on the best cold wallets and how to secure your crypto properly.
Click to expand...
Like all good useful currencies.

I'll get paid in dollars, deposit it...convert to Bitcoin, transfer to a cold wallet, then if i want to buy a taco, ill transfer back to a hot wallet, convert back to dollars, then withdraw the dollars and buy my taco

Wave of the future
 
Well the Saudi’s are slowly buying bitcoin. That’s the one country to keep an eye on. Sorta. They are buying into mstr. It’s just a drop in the bucket for the Saudi bank though.
 
UscGhost said:
Like all good useful currencies.

I'll get paid in dollars, deposit it...convert to Bitcoin, transfer to a cold wallet, then if i want to buy a taco, ill transfer back to a hot wallet, convert back to dollars, then withdraw the dollars and buy my taco

Wave of the future
Click to expand...
No, all you need is a wallet address. And there are intermediary services now that are partnered with hundreds of big name businesses to accept crypto. Its 100% the wave of the future. Open your eyes.
 
TeslaCoil said:
No, all you need is a wallet address. And there are intermediary services now that are partnered with hundreds of big name businesses to accept crypto. Its 100% the wave of the future. Open your eyes.
Click to expand...

Isn’t the point of Bitcoin to bypass “intermediary services”? And what are the “hundreds of big name businesses”?
 
TeslaCoil said:
No, all you need is a wallet address. And there are intermediary services now that are partnered with hundreds of big name businesses to accept crypto. Its 100% the wave of the future. Open your eyes.
Click to expand...
Ah yes.

So i get paid in dollars, i convert to bitcoin, then i move it to cold storage (for safety), then i have to connect my cold wallet to a pc, then i can send it to bitpay...oh..they cant purchase local goods

Ok, well i can have bitpay send it to Apple, who then converts to dollars. So at least i can buy stuff there.

Or i can just use cash/credit

But hey, ill be sure to explain that to my wife when she makes a Costco run and asks for my credit card

But hey its legal tender in El Salvador right? Oh, nobody uses it there either?

Hmm
 
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