Blacking out name on application

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I wonder why asians are highly represented. What is it about us?
 
texahn said:
I wonder why asians are highly represented. What is it about us?
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We're the second fastest growing minority population in the United States. Then again, Latinos are the first...

Or... maybe cuz our girls are HOTTT.

I'll go now.
 
koko_eats said:
You send in a photo with secondary applications, they receive your MCAT-day photo, and you show up at an interview with your real face.
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I didn't learn this until after my MCAT day. I looked like crap on my MCAT day.
 
The question I asked wasn't a loaded question. I mean is it really our parents that push us into medicine while parents of other races don't?
 
shemarty said:
I didn't learn this until after my MCAT day. I looked like crap on my MCAT day.
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So that's how they stop someone from taking an MCAT, doing EC's, getting the grades, and paying someone else to interview for them. My friend brought that up to me not too long ago. MCAT picture has to correspond to your interview day appearance!

Suddenly I'm reminded of Face-Off starring Nicholas Cage and John Travolta.
 
texahn said:
The question I asked wasn't a loaded question. I mean is it really our parents that push us into medicine while parents of other races don't?
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Sure, it's possible. I'm sure there's literature on this topic, actually. Med school admissions gets lots of publications.
 
Bacchus said:
I had no idea that our photo was used. Is it a big deal, no, its not. But, is this disclosed somewhere?
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Yeah I can't remember where I saw this bit of info before... someone mentioned it on SDN and I can only assume it was a reputable source... at least I hope it was. I think it was either in the old adcom subforum or one of the advisors mentioned it here.
 
koko_eats said:
Yeah I can't remember where I saw this bit of info before... someone mentioned it on SDN and I can only assume it was a reputable source... at least I hope it was. I think it was either in the old adcom subforum or one of the advisors mentioned it here.
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Yea, I also read it on SDN so I have no idea if it's true. They must take that photo for *some* reason, though...
 
koko_eats said:
We're the second fastest growing minority population in the United States. Then again, Latinos are the first...

Or... maybe cuz our girls are HOTTT.

I'll go now.
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Oh yeah! Personally, I'm a Chinese guy with a lil yellow fever.


SiR99 said:
If you feel like you were at a disadvantage in undergrad then put it in your application.

Everyone needs a chance dont they? When you give a URM a chance for a better life, they will pass it onto their children.
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The only problem with the URM status is that not all URM's are disadvantaged.



For the record, I agree with most of what you say OP
 
Shawnpremed said:
^^I also agree, but this also has to do with the fact that some people are more comfortable seeing doctors that can identify with them culturally, or can just speak their native language, so that is a reason for the 'ethnicity' factor.
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Yeah, that's also true. The admissions process probably won't change atm. It'd be interesting to see how many people who supposedly get in for their URM status go onto specialize though. A PCP would probably need to identify more with teh patient than a radiologist would.
 
Shawnpremed said:
^^I also agree, but this also has to do with the fact that some people are more comfortable seeing doctors that can identify with them culturally, or can just speak their native language, so that is a reason for the 'ethnicity' factor.
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Oddly enough, research has shown that Latinos and Chinese Americans don't care about the race of their physicians, but that cultural sensitivity and ability to speak in Spanish/Mandarin/Cantonese matters more to the patient.

But I think that might have more to do with the loaded nature of a survey question that asks if you care about a doctor's race 🙂
 
I wrote about an very cultural experience in my personal statement and made it clear about my ethnicity (over represented), as well as having a very ethnical last name. but I chose to not disclose in my primary application to protest the current system.

the way I see it, affirmative action should be based on socioeconomic status ONLY.

who is more likely to go back and serve the inner city?

an african american guy grew up in the suburb surrounded by rich Caucasians and NEVER sit foot in the inner city.

or an poor Asian guy who grew up in the inner city?

Unfortunately, in the current political climate, the black guy will most likely gets more advantage.
 
Handy388 said:
I wrote about an very cultural experience in my personal statement and made it clear about my ethnicity (over represented), as well as having a very ethnical last name. but I chose to not disclose in my primary application to protest the current system.

the way I see it, affirmative action should be based on socioeconomic status ONLY.

who is more likely to go back and serve the inner city?

an african american guy grew up in the suburb surrounded by rich Caucasians and NEVER sit foot in the inner city.

or an poor Asian guy who grew up in the inner city?

Unfortunately, in the current political climate, the black guy will most likely gets more advantage.
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I'm pretty sure that the Asian guy is the one who can write an explanation in the disadvantaged/underserved text box and thus he'll be the one to get the advantage at some schools.

FWIW, there is no URM checkbox.
 
well, URM is defined by a very narrow criteria based only on race and I am pretty sure you can't argue out of that one. JUST race gives advantage in admissions.

I think there outta be more physicians serving underserved populations, and I admit it's not very likely for someone like me, who grew up in a middle class suburb, to want to go serve the inner city, where I've never lived in my life

I do have a problem with upper middle class black students getting a boost in admissions over upper middle class white students JUST because of race, because we all know darn well that one isn't going to be more likely to go serve the underserved population than the other.

people are mostly defined by where they are from, where they grew up and socioeconomic status, race as a criteria for admission is fauculty because it places race in a vacuum, without considering anything else.
 
Handy388 said:
well, URM is defined by a very narrow criteria based only on race and I am pretty sure you can't argue out of that one. JUST race gives advantage in admissions.

I think there outta be more physicians serving underserved populations, and I admit it's not very likely for someone like me, who grew up in a middle class suburb, to want to go serve the inner city, where I've never lived in my life

I do have a problem with upper middle class black students getting a boost in admissions over upper middle class white students JUST because of race, because we all know darn well that one isn't going to be more likely to go serve the underserved population than the other.

people are mostly defined by where they are from, where they grew up and socioeconomic status, race as a criteria for admission is fauculty because it places race in a vacuum, without considering anything else.
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I agree with what you wrote. The issue with these discussions, however, is that you have to prove that someone qualified did not get in only because a URM student took his spot, which means that it has to be proved that the unfortunate applicant was next in line. You have to further prove that the URM applicant would not have gotten in had it not been for his race.

A similar argument can be made regarding gender balancing. Someone could argue that if equally matched male and female applicants are compared against each other, the female has a higher chance of being chosen in order to increase class diversity or to increase female doctors or, even more specifically, to increase the number Mandarin speaking female physicians in the workforce. Few would criticize that schema, however. I wonder why.
 
Shawnpremed said:
Here's my problem with affirmative action, and not to get all American History X, but b/w 2 applicants equal in all variables (both hard working, accomplished) EXCEPT that one comes from a wealthy family, while the other from a poor one. If you reward the lower socioecon. status applicant, then you're punishing the wealthier background applicant, and thus providing no incentive for parents to work hard for income. I don't think this is fair, although there are many reasons to do this.
When I was at a JC, I had a relatively later course registration date than someone else on lots of financial aid, thus I couldn't take major requirements til later. So maybe my parents shouldn't work so hard to earn money?
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I personally think the person who become just as accomplished as his wealthier counterpart have to go through MUCH more diffculty to get there.
 
Handy388 said:
I personally think the person who become just as accomplished as his wealthier counterpart have to go through MUCH more diffculty to get there.
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Agreed. I wouldn't mind giving my med school slot to that guy.

Kinda.
 
koko_eats said:
I agree with what you wrote. The issue with these discussions, however, is that you have to prove that someone qualified did not get in only because a URM student took his spot, which means that it has to be proved that the unfortunate applicant was next in line. You have to further prove that the URM applicant would not have gotten in had it not been for his race.

A similar argument can be made regarding gender balancing. Someone could argue that if equally matched male and female applicants are compared against each other, the female has a higher chance of being chosen in order to increase class diversity or to increase female doctors or, even more specifically, to increase the number Mandarin speaking female physicians in the workforce. Few would criticize that schema, however. I wonder why.
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I am pretty sure there have been internal leaks where certain minorities gained bouns points in admissions while others have points deducted from them, all because of skin color alone. That would make it quite easy to prove who displaced whom.

Of course, the certain displaced minorities tend to mind their own business, is very competitive toward each other, and are divided on the issue of race.
 
Handy388 said:
I am pretty sure there have been internal leaks where certain minorities gained bouns points in admissions while others have points deducted from them, all because of skin color alone. That would make it quite easy to prove who displaced whom.

Of course, the certain displaced minorities tend to mind their own business, is very competitive toward each other, and are divided on the issue of race.
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I'm sure it happens. I don't think it robs the vast premed population of too many [better deserved] seats, however.

This isn't undergrad where they need to test everyone for English competency. I would argue that your peers in med school are capable of holding their own even if someone thinks they don't deserve their seat.
 
Shawnpremed said:
I understand your point, but this doesn't provide incentive for parents to work hard and earn money for their kids, which really isn't a concern for adcoms, but in the long run is troubling.
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I think the wealthy family will do just fine in the long run and will consider their investment worthwhile.

Even if it doesn't earn you brownie points in the eyes of adcoms, money still makes the rest of the world go 'round.

Just for an applicant: app fees are easier to pay, interview flight cost matters less, easier to buy suits & accessories, a very relaxing hotel room, taxi to/from the airport, nice dinner in the town the night before, ability to bring SO on the trip with you, etc.
 
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Shawnpremed said:
I understand your point, but this doesn't provide incentive for parents to work hard and earn money for their kids, which really isn't a concern for adcoms, but in the long run is troubling.
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how is that troubling?
 
Try German med school and work applications. They require pictures...
 
I always just check "other" for ethnicity. I'm a Jew – to people who don't like white people, I'm white. To people who don't like non-whites, I'm non-white. I just can't win. And I have had to field the question "So tell me how you people control the media so well" from new acquaintances. 😱
 
This is a good topic. I have a strong interest in encouraging more disadvantaged students to become involved in medicine.

If you have time, read this paper:. Annals of Family Medicine 6(3): 198-205. .

African Americans make up 13% of the US population, but just 4% of the physician population. As you probably already know, patients feel more comfortable with physicians they can relate to. Race is one of the biggest influencing factors.

I would not fault those who think we should base admissions procedures on socioeconomic status more so than the color of an applicants skin, but having more URMs in the physician population is not a bad thing, regardless of their background. The poor African American may be more attractive than the affluent African American, but he/she should still be more attractive than the white affluent applicant.

This is all coming from a poor white kid too. Hooray for diversity in medicine!
 
UVAbme2009 said:
This is a good topic. I have a strong interest in encouraging more disadvantaged students to become involved in medicine.

If you have time, read this paper:. Annals of Family Medicine 6(3): 198-205. .

African Americans make up 13% of the US population, but just 4% of the physician population. As you probably already know, patients feel more comfortable with physicians they can relate to. Race is one of the biggest influencing factors.

I would not fault those who think we should base admissions procedures on socioeconomic status more so than the color of an applicants skin, but having more URMs in the physician population is not a bad thing, regardless of their background. The poor African American may be more attractive than the affluent African American, but he/she should still be more attractive than the white affluent applicant.

This is all coming from a poor white kid too. Hooray for diversity in medicine!
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my point is that rich black kid who have never sit foot in the ghetto most likely choose to practice where they grew up (affluent suburb populated mostly by whites). in this case they are not more relatable to their patient base than anyone else.

sure, people love to see doctors that resembles themselves, but the first requirement is that those doctors choose to practice in the inner cities, which is more likely if those doctors are poor whites from inner cities than rich black from the suburb.

like Obama's campaign platform said, he hope to move us into a post-racial world. one of the best thing to do that is to elminate affirmative action based on race.

WE NEED MORE URM PHYSICIANS. but rich URM should not get a leg up. I wonder if a study can be done to investigate the likelyhood of medical school acceptance based on race for someone with the same qualification. I bet it goes something like this.

MOST likely to be accepted: Rich URM > Rich white/asian > poor white/asian > poor URM.

Simply because poor URM maybe a lot less informed about the process, have disruptive environment, and simply cannot afford many things.
 
koko_eats said:
So disclose it. Seriously, people. You send in a photo with secondary applications, they receive your MCAT-day photo, and you show up at an interview with your real face.

Do you honestly think that not including your first name/last name/ethnicity will make an ounce of difference at the schools you're afraid will give your spot to someone less deserving?
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oh god they receive our mcat picture?? lol
 
Shawnpremed said:
Which brings me back to my question, will they see this as a red flag IF you're clearly (by appearance/last name) from a certain ethnic group, but choose to keep this undisclosed? Are they gonna think you're hiding something?
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If they want to know more, they can ask. I just don't check "caucasian" because that doesn't accurately describe my entire ethnic identity. I'm happy to talk about the complexities of Jewishness as an ethnicity, religion, and/or culture and how my identity intersects with each of those things.

You can't tell much about what kind of "other" someone is from last name. My last name is vaguely Jewish, but for all they know I could be a Black Russian with a half-Puerto Rican/half-Japanese mother.
 
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