Blacks really are URM

[bellacnella]

Just the response I was expecting to eventually receive by somebody too dense to see past his own hypocrisy. The truth, DrPavoreal, is that its entirely normal for people to be uncomfortable if they're immersed in a culture that they're not familiar with. And on that note, I hope you realize that your argument would apply to Miss Alyssa AND yourself! You, yourself, claim that URM's step outside their comfort zone on a "daily basis", so by your own standards I hope you never have to treat any white people

And, what is a non-threatening negro? Is that code-speak for "I'm an angry person who thinks the world is racist and out to get me?" Is that code-speak for "any black person who speaks the predominant form of english and presents him/herself in a fashion that's consistent with the dominant culture is an 'uncle tom'"? I'm infinitely offended every time I hear a successful minority being put down by "his people" because he has adopted the predominant *gasp* white/european *gasp* culture. Not only is it offensive to the person being attacked (like the "non-threatening negro Thomas Sowell"), its very offensive to those of us who are part of the dominant culture b/c that is evidence that you reject us and our culture and have some resentment toward it and us when the huge majority of the people in the dominant culture want nothing more than the best for URM's, which is strongly supported by the fact that the dominant culture has supported endless programs at the private and governmental institution level to assist URMs--assistance that is NOT available to non-URM's of similar socioeconomic status!

You're absolutely ridiculous.

I hang out with a pretty diverse crowd, I'm marrying outside of my own race, and I spend quite a bit of time volunteering in an ER where the majority of people are not part of the culture I'm most comfortable with. I treat every individual as an individual, and everybody gets the respect they deserve, and I reciprocate the kindness and respect I get from others. I don't need to qualify myself as a non-racist b/c you're hypersensitive. I can't help but remember being in school and seeing someone get pelted with a school book b/c the kid said Arnold Schwarzenegger's name and some hypersensitive A-hole didn't bother to ask questions about what he "thought" he heard and just chucked a book. Hypersensitivity like that is sure to make your beliefs a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And, no, actually I really don't find the latin accent "exotic" or sexy in any way, really. Nobody is in "style", unless your an avid MTV-aholic, then its URM's who are in style.

One last point, "URM's" dont step outside their comfort zone on a daily basis. I know plenttttttyyyyyyyy of URMs who feel absolutely 100% comfortable in the dominant culture because that's the culture their families have adopted, and they've never felt this insecurity you exhibit. My fiancee, however, is Vietnamese, and just as happenstance about half of our closest friends are URM's, whom, ironically, have expressed that the only discrimination they remember encountering as they grew up was from people of their own race/color because they were "uncle toms, twinkies, and coconuts" *sigh*.

Take your insecurities elsewhere. I'm so absolutely sick of being accused of some sort of racism for saying something that's even the slightest bit "politically incorrect". What I said was totally harmless, but your sensitive and negative attitude is, IMHO, at a minimum, self destructive.

I am not going to bother dissecting this post...let's all simply agree that the whole thing is dumb

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[puchi]

Wow yall are going at it in here. So much has been said, I gotta say that I agree with those that disagree with tncekm.

 

[da me ka don]

Just to rep....Nigerian born/raised Nigerian female...
lol.
The American born immigrants are mid-way between us, and African Americans(non-immigrant), because u seem to be able to bridge the gap better, and understand both aspects of the spectrum.

However, what I am interested in is meeting people who have intellect and are humble regardless of where they are from or what they look like in the school I am going in the fall, who accept me for who I am. Nothing could be better than that.

 

[shmrshines]

Just to rep....Nigerian born/raised Nigerian female...
lol.
The American born immigrants are mid-way between us, and African Americans(non-immigrant), because u seem to be able to bridge the gap better, and understand both aspects of the spectrum.

However, what I am interested in is meeting people who have intellect and are humble regardless of where they are from or what they look like in the school I am going in the fall, who accept me for who I am. Nothing could be better than that.

I agree. I don't care what you look like as long as you feel the same. I love learning about different cultures. Why is it so hard to accept difference? American born black, btw. Although, I feel like I landed here from mars or something.

 

[Phillykid162]

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[Hydra23]

I can definitely attest to what you're talking about. I am from 'the islands' and came here after my parents paved the way for my sisters and I after years of hard, sometimes demeaning work. We did not live in abject poverty back 'home' but the opportunites here ar unarguably unlimited. When I came here I was already 17 and about to start college. That was 6 years ago. And to this day ( based on what I"ve seen) I can't understand the 'balck' culture in America. There really is a disparity in my upbringing compared to what I see here eg. kids using superlatives on the bus and train even when elderly people are there, is just foreign to me.

What I'm trying to say is that even as a person of African decent it can be hard to identify with others from ur race. Culture plays such a big role!! So what seems 'black' to one person, such as the ebonics everyone is talking about, might not be to another.We just have to have an open mind and not stereotype.

 

[Hydra23]

MsJLewis;6705760]Hm, I've sat through many of these discussions. I went to an ivy and was born an American citizen while the rest of my family was naturalized immigrants from the Caribbean. I wouldn't necessarily say that its the "wealthiest of the wealthiest" that often immigrate here. In my experiences (in my own family, extended family, and the local Caribbean community) it seemed to me to be the ones that "wanted" it the most that immigrated to America.


That was in reply to this quote btw.

 

[4paw]

After being the only person of African decent in classes of 500+ students, I was done. If you haven't lived through it, it may be hard to fully understand. I'm glad we have black, African, and Caribbean associations on campus for support.

I did note the number of "black" people in the class according to the MSAR, and also the location. My top 3 choices were the HBCUs. My other top choices were schools in large cities. I was not trying to go to a school where I would be the only person of my race or ethnicity... living in a town where I am the ethnic diversity.

I did study abroad back home in Barbados and it was a wonderful experience. I can't explain what it's like NOT to have to think about my race. I wasn't a "black student". I was just Alyssa.

Lys

Miss Alyssa, didn't you go to Mac in Hamilton? I went to York. I have an ex-girfriend from the Hammer. i know for my own reasons why leaving Toronto and the City seems hard. york and toronto has the diversity i'm comfortable in - although toronto downtown is currently going a little too chichy. I'm a little worried for my queer self ending up in cleveland potentially this year if i can 1) find the money and 2) don't get off a cdn waitlist. did you ever hear of Reverend Hicks in Barbadoes? connected to the presbyterian church. i think there's a high-school named after him.

 

[4paw]

And those who are not URM with a similar SES (one could say) have had historical advantages.

or their own version of disadvantages/advantages. for instance, enough irish people were sent to the caribbean and southern states as 'indentured servants' i.e. to be indentured for seven years, no pay, to get freedom. but at a time when seven years was longer than most people lived in the caribbean/southern states especially coming from northern europe. enough of those irish people were then afterwards sent to australia on prison ships, etc. enough catholic people in the u.s. were held back at a time when the social order was still protestant. jfk being the first 'catholic' to become president, and that being a big thing. enough irish people encountering 'no blacks, no irish, no dogs' on shop windows. enough irish became cops, and also conveniently became 'white' rather than an 'inferior race' as we were known at home under english colonial rule, with head measurements and depictions of how our anatomy was more similar to apes. enough of those irish became white, became cops and became racist over time in america. enough of the irish who were given freedom after seven years, some who spoke only gaelic and not english, are now the working class of the appalachias, for generations, and i'd say that although white, these cultural locations are still discriminated against for who they are as a people, not just socio-economic location. and you'll see the same tensions with fitting in/being repelled by medical school culture. one big lesson in what i'm telling you from my own history, is how easy it is to go from oppressed to oppressor. there is a lesson there. for everyone.

differences, yes, but possibilities for bridging.

 

[BH2010]

Yes, sir. (I'm not a man. )

I won't participate further in this discussion other than to say that one cannot compare Africans to African Americans due to the selection bias inherent in those populations. When one compares Blacks from the Carribean or Africa, one is often talking about the wealthiest of the wealthiest (who can afford to immigrate here) -- not the millions of poverty-stricken people who make up the majority (same with India, China, etc.). If one was to take a cross-section of people from the same socio-economic stratus, most of these "differences" disappear.

Maybe I need to change my screen name so I won't be referred to as a boy anymore.

See, that's where you're wrong my friend. you might find the same trends btw chinese and Indians but not among africans. most africans that immigrate to america are usually refugees from war-torn countries. they usually apply for immigration and when granted, have their expenses paid for by immigration agencies, IOM, IRC, INS, UNHCR, etc...You won't find many africans that paid to come to school here, and there are not very many of them with study-abroad scholarships either....I'm not supporting the arguments that africans are better than african americans,,,,and i don't think that's true either but its a common misconception that african immigrants are successful here in america because they're the "cream" of their society.

 

[scarletgirl777]

See, that's where you're wrong my friend. you might find the same trends btw chinese and Indians but not among africans. most africans that immigrate to america are usually refugees from war-torn countries. they usually apply for immigration and when granted, have their expenses paid for by immigration agencies, IOM, IRC, INS, UNHCR, etc...You won't find many africans that paid to come to school here, and there are not very many of them with study-abroad scholarships either....I'm not supporting the arguments that africans are better than african americans,,,,and i don't think that's true either but its a common misconception that african immigrants are successful here in america because they're the "cream" of their society.

Most of the people I know who are children of African immigrants have parents with advanced degrees, or who came to this country on scholarship etc. I know that there are Somalian refugees and other African refugees here, but most of the Africans/second-generationers I see leading successful lives here were not refugees/children of refugees...they might have been poor, but then they had high intellect or ambition that allowed them to go to school at home or abroad on scholarship, and then their education allowed them to get jobs here.

 

[chocomorsel]

See, that's where you're wrong my friend. you might find the same trends btw chinese and Indians but not among africans. most africans that immigrate to america are usually refugees from war-torn countries. they usually apply for immigration and when granted, have their expenses paid for by immigration agencies, IOM, IRC, INS, UNHCR, etc...You won't find many africans that paid to come to school here, and there are not very many of them with study-abroad scholarships either....I'm not supporting the arguments that africans are better than african americans,,,,and i don't think that's true either but its a common misconception that african immigrants are successful here in america because they're the "cream" of their society.

I think I have to disagree. I bet if you took a poll of the Africans who live here, most of the ARE NOT REFUGEES from war torn countries. It is not that easy to land in the US from a war torn country. Lots of obstacles. As and African (Kenyan) living in America, all the Africans I know come her on their own, mostly as university students. They apply for student visas and come here and most end up staying after finishing school.

I know plenty of Kenyans and quite a few Nigerians/west Africans and if they didn't come here to go to school, then their dads/moms acquired a job here and they relocated with them. I know one Somalian girl that possibly came here as a refugee, but not really sure and my cousin's husband tried to get refugee status to no avail. It's not an easy route as you likely seem to think.

I am under the impression and (pretty sure I'm right) that MOST Africans come here under student visas and then figure out ways to stay after they finish school. Not the "wealthiest of the wealthy" or "refugee"s as you may think. In fact the "wealthiest of the wealthy" really don't have much reason to relocate to the States as they have all they need and then some in their native countries and get to go to university or live off their family money.

Getting into university in many African countries is difficult and many can't afford it as the government is not as helpful with grants and loans as they are here. And once you finish even with a PHD, it can still be quite difficult to get a job. So most africans come here for the educational and job opportunities. And the reason many of them do well is because they see both sides of the coin, and understand the importance of education, as it has likely been denied to them back home.
Enough of my soap box, and back to the subject.

P.S In my medical school class there were 15 of us blacks and 9 were African, 1 was south American and the others were African American. Don't know what that tells anyone, but I know as Africans in general we tend to a appreciate more and take advantage of the opportunities this country can award us.

 

[scarterinscrubs]

A lot of African Americans have lost the the understanding of how education is very improtant. That plays a major role in why many of us don't further our education. I could go on and on, but just look at the history of this country. Its history will answer many questions on why we are URM.

 

[flaahless]

A lot of African Americans have lost the the understanding of how education is very improtant. That plays a major role in why many of us don't further our education. I could go on and on, but just look at the history of this country. Its history will answer many questions on why we are URM.

Ehh, I disagree. Instead of losing the understanding of the importance of education, I'd say a lot of African Americans never understood it's importance to begin with. For instance, if you went to a public school in LA County, then you didn't have a lot of faith in education, and education didn't have a lot of faith in you. How can you convince someone to grind through a decade of HS and college when they are broke now? Books are great and all but people have to eat.

 

[scarterinscrubs]

Ehh, I disagree. Instead of losing the understanding of the importance of education, I'd say a lot of African Americans never understood it's importance to begin with. For instance, if you went to a public school in LA County, then you didn't have a lot of faith in education, and education didn't have a lot of faith in you. How can you convince someone to grind through a decade of HS and college when they are broke now? Books are great and all but people have to eat.

LOL. Thats absolutely true everywhere, but there are also people who are not broke now that have no faith in education and could care less about it.