Blind student earns M.D.

[Tallguy]

I think they have this same post in pre-allo, but it seems more fitting under Allo... Amazing story...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/04/02/seeing.no.limits.ap/index.html

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[Winged Scapula]

What a fantastic story. If he didn't seem like such a great guy, I'd admit to being a little jealous about his accomplishments.

 

[Crake]

wow, that just makes me feel so lazy.

 

[14022]

The most amazing part of the story is that he is going into Radiology.

 

[ItsGavinC]

A PGY-3 in the Everyone forum has a buddy who worked with this guy, and supposedly the school walked him through every step of his education.

I'm calling blatant BS on this story. Especially the lovely part about the guy being able to survive anatomy and identify structures.

To the guest who suggested the most amazing part is that he's going into radiology, I suggest that is the most far-fetched part.

 

[Frijolero]

A PGY-3 in the Everyone forum has a buddy who worked with this guy, and supposedly the school walked him through every step of his education.

I'm calling blatant BS on this story. Especially the lovely part about the guy being able to survive anatomy and identify structures.

To the guest who suggested the most amazing part is that he's going into radiology, I suggest that is the most far-fetched part.

He's not going into radiology. The story, at least, said psych or IM. I think the weirdest part of the whole story is his fiance's name. Blue-leaf Hannah? I mean come on....what were her parents smoking?

-Frijolero

 

[Newquagmire]

I think the weirdest part of the whole story is his fiance's name. Blue-leaf Hannah? I mean come on....what were her parents smoking?

-Frijolero

frijolero is a really common name too. really.

the dude is also a Ph.D. is he mstp?

 

[Mike59]

How the heck does he read EKGs??!!!

 

[Tallguy]

A PGY-3 in the Everyone forum has a buddy who worked with this guy, and supposedly the school walked him through every step of his education.

I'm calling blatant BS on this story. Especially the lovely part about the guy being able to survive anatomy and identify structures.

To the guest who suggested the most amazing part is that he's going into radiology, I suggest that is the most far-fetched part.

Hey... evidently this student has completed all the requirements of his degree at a well-respected medical school. So, i don't think it is appropriate for you to bash him considering you were not in his classes, judging by your previous posts(many that are dentistry related).

 

[typeB-md]

Hey... evidently this student has completed all the requirements of his degree at a well-respected medical school. So, i don't think it is appropriate for you to bash him considering you were not in his classes, judging by your previous posts(many that are dentistry related).

oh come on.

this dude is blind. they basically wasted an admissions spot so that they could receive teh PR from this nonsense. I think it's great that he has "ambitions" but really, medicine is not a place for a blind person.

i don't know about you, but i'd rather let an EMT intubate me rather than a blind dude.

 

[JohnB79]

I second that. I mean how can this man read a patients charts and such? Does he have a nurse or an aid follow him around writing down his orders and reading from a chart every-time he comes into a room? What about histo... how does he identify slides and such, how did he do dissections during anatomy lab?

I don't want to bash the guy but I think he is a huge liability when it comes to med malpractice insurance and what not because if he screws up just once the patient will be all over that hospital like white on rice claiming the hospital is negligent by allowing someone who does not have all their senses to interact with patients and make life and death decisions.

 

[calcrew14]

“The anesthesia machine was set to emit musical tones to confirm the tube was in the trachea and carbon dioxide was present.”

According to the above quote from the article, I believe that any intelligent blind person can be taught and trained to do it (the intubation.) Anyone of us can too, blindly. Because I can’t think of anything that can enter a completely normal wind pipe without serious coughing or even choking, the patient in the article must be either drugged or unresponsive. In such condition, anything can be inserted anywhere, right?

It is obvious that we are dealing with a serious technical deficiency for medical school application. How could it be overwhelmed by such uniqueness. If he is great in research or preclinical medicine, PhD route should have been a better option for both him and the medical school. To make a clinician out of him without eyes contact or appropriate touching is just the same as to make a computer version of physician. What a way to go!!!!

 

[thackl]

April Fools??? There are a number of things a blind person can learn to do. Clinician doesn't seem like one of them.

 

[DrOctopus]

Because I can’t think of anything that can enter a completely normal wind pipe without serious coughing or even choking, the patient in the article must be either drugged or unresponsive.

That's the only way intubations are done--on unresponsive or medically paralyzed patients...

 

[tupac_don]

oh come on.

this dude is blind. they basically wasted an admissions spot so that they could receive teh PR from this nonsense. I think it's great that he has "ambitions" but really, medicine is not a place for a blind person.

i don't know about you, but i'd rather let an EMT intubate me rather than a blind dude.

I agree, with above poster. I mean it is truly amazing, what this guy did, just amazing, I think most people even with all senses can't handle medical school, let alone with such a huge deficit as site. His accomplishement is tremendous. Unfortunately, as a blind person he is simply not suited for clinical medicine. I mean he might be as amazing as possible at diagnosing rashes and "feeling" veins, but lets be realistic here. As a blind man he is a liability rather than an asset. Seriosly, charts and getting the right info can be chaotic enough with having all ur senses, but to be blind I simply can't see it. I can't see, how he would survive in the ICU as an IM doc. YOu are telling me that when the pt is crashing, you would have someone, telling him what they see and he would give orders based on that, come on. That is a little far fetched. Possible yes, but he would never have a true grasp of what is going on. A big part of medical schooling, is to see things in the hospital and to recognize them again when they resurface. The ironic thing is that he actually might be successful, but this would be secondary to others helping him and going out of their way b/c he is blind. Everyone would triple check his pts and help out as much as possible that they would compensate as much as possible for his lack of blindness. I can't see him not being with someone in the room to help him with visual cues. Very nice young intellingent man, but simply not for medicine. Another poster also mentioned, one wrong move and it's a HUGE lawsuit. Imagine also the pts, "I am tx by a blind guy". What he is doing, impossible-NO, highly unlikely, impractical, inefficent--very much so. Well thats jsut my thought of the day.

 

[Lindyhopper]

People are focusing on possible limitations in clinical settings. Even within medicine their is division of labor. He's clearly a brillant guy. I suspect he will find a niche & this future PhD-MD will make tremendous contributions.

 

[kenshinoro2004]

If this guy has been able to do all the things that he has... I don't see why he can't be a doctor... Seeing is not as important as hearing, which most doctors fail to do in the first place. Would I want him in the ER? No... but Psych? that seems like a great fit. Quit hating on the guy, specially cuz he's probably smarter than you ever will be.

 

[leorl]

The blind can do a lot more than you think. I've met a couple really amazing blind people in my life, who lead more accomplished and fulfilling lives than most of us sighted people ever will.

 

[bigfrank]

I just don't see what all the big fuss is about.

 

[MSHell]

... but to be blind I simply can't see it. I can't see, how he would survive in the ICU as an IM doc...

I especially like the part in the article when it was mentionned twice that he observed surgery. How????

 

[JohnB79]

I'm impressed by what he has accomplished but as someone PM'd me Here is a snippet of what was sent.

he got exceptions that were "unfair" to other students (i.e. visual slides in histo and ophtho, radiology films and such on exams were described to him, whereas the rest of us got no hints...but then again, how else could he take the exam?). The med school printed all it's materials for him in braille or on CDs, which his special laptop then reads aloud to him. He has a scanner that converts written material onto his computer which then reads it aloud. He got 'preferenced' to clinic on surgical rotations such as surgery and OB, only "watching" a couple surgeries on each rotation---with a personal aide who described things to him---typically, students cannot 'opt out' of the OR for clinic on these rotations.

Now given that he was made all these allouances I would think that is bordering on preferential treatment because of his disability. I know allot of people here cry fowl when preferental treatment is give to minorities for getting accpectance into med school but what about this? Special treatment while in med school. I've held jobs where if we would have give special treatment to individuals who couldn't hack it people would die and here is a graduating med student who has to make life and death decisions but can't do it without someone holding his hand and spoon feeding him.

Now I bet there are people who are in a better position to judge weather or not he would be a good doctor but I don't think that he should be in direct patient care with out someone watching over him and if that is the case he can't operate independently and then I don't think I would want him on my team because other team members would have to go out of their way to check on his work and that is a huge burden.


If the OP has a problem with me displaying the PM I will remove it.

 

[bigfrank]

he got exceptions that were "unfair" to other students (i.e. visual slides in histo and ophtho, radiology films and such on exams were described to him, whereas the rest of us got no hints...but then again, how else could he take the exam?). The med school printed all it's materials for him in braille or on CDs, which his special laptop then reads aloud to him. He has a scanner that converts written material onto his computer which then reads it aloud. He got 'preferenced' to clinic on surgical rotations such as surgery and OB, only "watching" a couple surgeries on each rotation---with a personal aide who described things to him---typically, students cannot 'opt out' of the OR for clinic on these rotations.

now it is immortalized here forever, aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh (my evil laugh).

Eye still don't see what the big deal is.

 

[JohnB79]

Well I didn't give the individual who PM'd me name out... so atleast thats still safe.

 

[dsblaha]

A big part of histology is picking up on key words. If someone told me the slide was a lymph node biopsy with a few cells the look like "owl eyes" or "starry sky", imagine how easy that would be.

 

[PACtoDOC]

My Lord, some of you are incredibly arrogant and callous. This guy is not going to be a danger to anyone, and he undoubtedly knows his limitations greater than anyone. I mean be serious, how many of you made it through surgery rotation with merely an arm in the field, your back turned toward the field, and staring at the clock on the wall because you coulden't see around the 5 other people who were operating as you were retracting? How many of you know someone who never even delivered a baby on OBGYN? Here is the bottom line. A medical school has a great deal of leaway when it creates a curriculum. The only thing that matters in the end is that the student is capable of passing the USMLE. My guess is that he took the exam (with special provisions of someone describing the images) and had someone reading the questions for him. Screw it, if he can pass those exams, then he will be fine. I could seriously see him doing psychiatry, maybe PMR, and even some sub-specialty medicine if he could find a med program to help him through some. He could do endocrine easily, rheumo, and manipulation if he were a DO. This guys is worlds ahead of your arrogant condescending attitudes and he will undoubtedly succeed. You guys just need something to complain about.

 

[dsblaha]

My Lord, some of you are incredibly arrogant and callous. This guy is not going to be a danger to anyone, and he undoubtedly knows his limitations greater than anyone. I mean be serious, how many of you made it through surgery rotation with merely an arm in the field, your back turned toward the field, and staring at the clock on the wall because you coulden't see around the 5 other people who were operating as you were retracting? How many of you know someone who never even delivered a baby on OBGYN? Here is the bottom line. A medical school has a great deal of leaway when it creates a curriculum. The only thing that matters in the end is that the student is capable of passing the USMLE. My guess is that he took the exam (with special provisions of someone describing the images) and had someone reading the questions for him. Screw it, if he can pass those exams, then he will be fine. I could seriously see him doing psychiatry, maybe PMR, and even some sub-specialty medicine if he could find a med program to help him through some. He could do endocrine easily, rheumo, and manipulation if he were a DO. This guys is worlds ahead of your arrogant condescending attitudes and he will undoubtedly succeed. You guys just need something to complain about.

I don't think anybody questions his intelligence or drive or is impressed by the obstacles he had to overcome. However, there is more to being a physician than passing USMLE. I know I would never recommend my family see a blind physician. The only possible thing I could see him doing is psych. I know next to nothing about the field of psychiatry but I imagine he would be missing out on all sorts of non-verbal signals that I think would be pretty important. We're taught to observe the patients: how they sit, walk, facial expressions etc.

 

[Neuronix]

I've met a blind MD before. He's down in VA and does white coat ceremony speeches. He's a psychiatrist. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. You just have to pick a specialty (uhh... psychiatry?) that doesn't require you to do procedures or see a whole lot (hmm... psychiatry!).

 

[SuitsYou]

I especially like the part in the article when it was mentionned twice that he observed surgery. How????

He probably saw more than I did the other week 'watching' a mastoid exploration for colesteatoma when the video screen wasnt working

 

[typeB-md]

The blind can do a lot more than you think. I've met a couple really amazing blind people in my life, who lead more accomplished and fulfilling lives than most of us sighted people ever will.

and then they ride off into the sunset with thier golden steed?

listen, i'm all for people doing their best, but at some point it becomes a bit absurd. Even psychiatry involves a great deal of observation, and yes you can sense tone and such, but what about appearance.. is he going to touch their face and stuff?

Also, how did he get through histology practicals and anatomy practicals?

 

[typeB-md]

My Lord, some of you are incredibly arrogant and callous. This guy is not going to be a danger to anyone, and he undoubtedly knows his limitations greater than anyone. I mean be serious, how many of you made it through surgery rotation with merely an arm in the field, your back turned toward the field, and staring at the clock on the wall because you coulden't see around the 5 other people who were operating as you were retracting? How many of you know someone who never even delivered a baby on OBGYN? Here is the bottom line. A medical school has a great deal of leaway when it creates a curriculum. The only thing that matters in the end is that the student is capable of passing the USMLE. My guess is that he took the exam (with special provisions of someone describing the images) and had someone reading the questions for him. Screw it, if he can pass those exams, then he will be fine. I could seriously see him doing psychiatry, maybe PMR, and even some sub-specialty medicine if he could find a med program to help him through some. He could do endocrine easily, rheumo, and manipulation if he were a DO. This guys is worlds ahead of your arrogant condescending attitudes and he will undoubtedly succeed. You guys just need something to complain about.

Yes, we need something to complain about... b/c there is not enough in the world as it is.

The read sad part about this whole thing is that the school has just exploited this guy's disability for their PR work. "Oh, it was glorious the way we helped John through school... all of those extra helpers we provided along the way... i think this will do him good because when he gets into the real world, he will not be able to practice on his own and will not extra assistance, but after all, he did pass the USMLE and is now on his way to saving the third world"

your post is done in ignorance.

 

[Stripes]

So, when I first read the article I was pretty amazed, and then I realized that I have met him through the lab I work at ( I am at UW-Madison for Undergrad) and he is an amazing person. His fiancee, Blue-Leaf, I worked with her in my lab for research and she is one of the smartest and nicest people I know. And just to let everyone know, she is of Indian decent, which is why her name is Blue-Leaf and has significant meaning in her culture and family. Everyone may have their own opinion on whether or not a blind person can do clinicals or not, but I do know that he tries hard and he's very smart. I do give him a thumbs up for having the courage to even try to become a MD as I am sure he has gotten a lot of crap for being blind through his MD training.

 

[tigress]

And just to let everyone know, she is of Indian decent, which is why her name is Blue-Leaf and has significant meaning in her culture and family.

from the original article:
"(her exotic first name comes from a character in "Centennial," a James Michener novel)"

 

[JohnB79]

from the original article:
"(her exotic first name comes from a character in "Centennial," a James Michener novel)"

SO much for significant meaning in the past culture huh

 

[Caesars0331]

from the original article:
"(her exotic first name comes from a character in "Centennial," a James Michener novel)"

Dooh!! LOL

 

[Giving My .02]

I think all the press is not to exploit, but to show someone was able to accomplish a lot and encourage others. There are a lot of people who have disabilities and are still in medical school or are now physicians. I met a pediatric endocrine physician who was a wonderful lady and had a really bad speech problem (stutter). When everyone told her no (30+ years ago), she was able to do it, and is thus an example to others. Why do we have to look down on someone else's good fortune. He must be a hard worker, nonetheless. He will go into a field where he can use his talents. Lets be positive.

 

[typeB-md]

I think all the press is not to exploit, but to show someone was able to accomplish a lot and encourage others. There are a lot of people who have disabilities and are still in medical school or are now physicians. I met a pediatric endocrine physician who was a wonderful lady and had a really bad speech problem (stutter). When everyone told her no (30+ years ago), she was able to do it, and is thus an example to others. Why do we have to look down on someone else's good fortune. He must be a hard worker, nonetheless. He will go into a field where he can use his talents. Lets be positive.

now, maybe it's just me, but i believe that a speech problem is slightly less cumbersome than blindness. i don't know though, i'm going out on a limb there.

 

[LAZYGUY]

excellent post....now as for other people on this thread, I am embarrassed for you. To get your jollies out of bashing our colleague who has persevered through such a handicap is veraciously unimaginable. Where is our collegiality? In fact, I think the previous closed minded attitudes are of greater danger not only to our future patients, but to our profession.

I think all the press is not to exploit, but to show someone was able to accomplish a lot and encourage others. There are a lot of people who have disabilities and are still in medical school or are now physicians. I met a pediatric endocrine physician who was a wonderful lady and had a really bad speech problem (stutter). When everyone told her no (30+ years ago), she was able to do it, and is thus an example to others. Why do we have to look down on someone else's good fortune. He must be a hard worker, nonetheless. He will go into a field where he can use his talents. Lets be positive.

 

[synapse lapse]

excellent post....now as for other people on this thread, I am embarrassed for you. To get your jollies out of bashing our colleague who has persevered through such a handicap is veraciously unimaginable. Where is our collegiality? In fact, I think the previous closed minded attitudes are of greater danger not only to our future patients, but to our profession.

I'm sorry, I don't see how it is closed minded to state that a blind person can't perform many of the neccesary functions of a physician. People are stating facts on here, they're facts that you may not like, but facts none-the-less. Seeing is a major part of every area of medicine (even psych and IM), and while he may be able to make up for this deficit in some ways and be perfectly good doctor in many respects, he can never completely make up for his lack of sight, nor will he be able to perform at the same level. I don't see how this is bashing him either. We never made any attack against him, as a matter of fact, most praised his ability to persevere as well as his intelligence. They may have criticized the school or the institution of medicine, but I don't think that those comments constitute a personal attack on the young Dr. Besides, let's be frank, none of us would see a blind physician when giving the option of a sighted one, and that is a fact (with the notable exception of pysch for someone with low image self-esteem issues, or otehr such cases).

 

[bigfrank]

I think everyone is looking at this thread all wrong. Can't you see this courageous medical student for what he is?

 

[JAMMAN]

I'm sorry, I don't see how it is closed minded to state that a blind person can't perform many of the neccesary functions of a physician. People are stating facts on here, they're facts that you may not like, but facts none-the-less. Seeing is a major part of every area of medicine (even psych and IM), and while he may be able to make up for this deficit in some ways and be perfectly good doctor in many respects, he can never completely make up for his lack of sight, nor will he be able to perform at the same level. I don't see how this is bashing him either. We never made any attack against him, as a matter of fact, most praised his ability to persevere as well as his intelligence. They may have criticized the school or the institution of medicine, but I don't think that those comments constitute a personal attack on the young Dr. Besides, let's be frank, none of us would see a blind physician when giving the option of a sighted one, and that is a fact (with the notable exception of pysch for someone with low image self-esteem issues, or otehr such cases).

An excellent point!

 

[Athene]

I think everyone is looking at this thread all wrong. Can't you see this courageous medical student for what he is?

So True...

 

[Wrigleyville]

Sweet mother of God, Tim has spent his entire life ignoring people who say some things are impossible for him to do because he is blind, doing them anyway, and doing them better than everyone else. You'd think people would learn not to underestimate him by now, especially internet messageboard trolls who have never met him or seen him in action.

 

[LAZYGUY]

You are not even in medical school yet you assume to think that you know more about medicine than I do, funny. I think the fact that you can judge someone before you even meet them speaks volumes about you.

The "facts" you mention, are also merely people's opinions...nothing more.

You and I never really could agree on one thing during that summer program either huh...Alex, even though we share the same last name and all (you know who this is now huh? Keep me anonymous.). Congrats on getting in. But you are still wrong.

I'm sorry, I don't see how it is closed minded to state that a blind person can't perform many of the neccesary functions of a physician. People are stating facts on here, they're facts that you may not like, but facts none-the-less. Seeing is a major part of every area of medicine (even psych and IM), and while he may be able to make up for this deficit in some ways and be perfectly good doctor in many respects, he can never completely make up for his lack of sight, nor will he be able to perform at the same level. I don't see how this is bashing him either. We never made any attack against him, as a matter of fact, most praised his ability to persevere as well as his intelligence. They may have criticized the school or the institution of medicine, but I don't think that those comments constitute a personal attack on the young Dr. Besides, let's be frank, none of us would see a blind physician when giving the option of a sighted one, and that is a fact (with the notable exception of pysch for someone with low image self-esteem issues, or otehr such cases).

 

[zeloc]

I'm curious as to how much his other senses compensate for his lack of sight. It may be that he can do a better job than most of us on certain tasks, which could prove beneficial. Since there are so few people like him that are physicians, it isn't apparent what his abilities are.

 

[MacGyver]

there's no way in hell this guy could do anything other than psych and MAYBE pm&r

Being blind is too much of a disability to be a doctor that is called upon in urgent situations.

besides, he had extra help getting thru med school. If I had a personal aide telling me that the histo slide had patchy circular formations with granular debris with columnar epithelium that would be a damn easy class to pass.

 

[normalforce]

there's no way in hell this guy could do anything other than psych and MAYBE pm&r

Being blind is too much of a disability to be a doctor that is called upon in urgent situations.

besides, he had extra help getting thru med school. If I had a personal aide telling me that the histo slide had patchy circular formations with granular debris with columnar epithelium that would be a damn easy class to pass.

Trust me. You CAN NOT do PM&R if you are blind.

 

[bigfrank]

It's like some people can't see the forest but for the trees.

 

[synapse lapse]

You are not even in medical school yet you assume to think that you know more about medicine than I do, funny. I think the fact that you can judge someone before you even meet them speaks volumes about you.

The "facts" you mention, are also merely people's opinions...nothing more.

You and I never really could agree on one thing during that summer program either huh...Alex, even though we share the same last name and all (you know who this is now huh? Keep me anonymous.). Congrats on getting in. But you are still wrong.

Haha what's up, i thought that might be you but you changed your username. I won't even comment on further on this, but yeah, we could never agree

 

[B-Bone]

I was Tim's research assistant/reader for a summer and worked extensively with him for several years through UW's disability resource center. While I agree that people have to accept certain limitations based on their personal abilities, I believe that there is certainly a place for people with disabilities in medicine. Just because one lacks exquisite manual dexterity and probably shouldn't be a surgeon, should they not be accepted to medical school? What about short people who need a few steps to reach the operating table? Or deaf people who can't hear heart murmurs? Where are you people drawing the line? The reality of the modern world is that accommodations can be made help overcome disabilities. Tim is one of the smartest people I have ever met, and is capable of practicing medicine.

 

[calcrew14]

1) I am wondering if there is any blind physician in active medical practice now and what is the specialty that each one is in?
2) Does a blind doctor pay higher malpractice insurance premium?
3) Can I expect that this accomplishment will lead me to a medical school (or at least an allotment) for competent blinds and other handicaps sometimes in the future? If not, then why?

IMHO, any party who starts a controversy should be held responsible for justification of the action in as many aspects as possible. Without some clarification, I will always wonder how serious the medical school is for such an admission (or project?) Is this showing the establishment of a good trend, a blip of an abortive one or just another experiment in its early stage?

In any scenario, we all know that our dude is great and admirable. Definitely, it is not him who should have been placed on trial.