board pass ratio for neurology exams

[soulsearchin]

does anyone know what the board pass percentage is for neurology ie the first time pass percentage after the residency..i mean we all look for so many other things while choosing a residency but i think the difficulty of the speciality exam is also an important factor..thnaks for any info

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[llogg]

UTSW's program director claims 100% first time pass rate over the past five or so years. I don't know what the overall pass rate is.

 

[neurologist]

does anyone know what the board pass percentage is for neurology ie the first time pass percentage after the residency..i mean we all look for so many other things while choosing a residency but i think the difficulty of the speciality exam is also an important factor..thnaks for any info

Supposedly, the first time pass rate for the written section is about 75%, and of those who pass part I, about 75% pass part II on the first try; so that's like about a 2/3 overall pass rate on the first try. As for those who don't pass on the first go round, sorry, but it is a well known fact that if you don't pass the first time, your chances of passing on subsequent tries are much reduced. I don't know how things will work out with the elimination of the oral boards.

 

[Faebinder]

Supposedly, the first time pass rate for the written section is about 75%, and of those who pass part I, about 75% pass part II on the first try; so that's like about a 2/3 overall pass rate on the first try. As for those who don't pass on the first go round, sorry, but it is a well known fact that if you don't pass the first time, your chances of passing on subsequent tries are much reduced. I don't know how things will work out with the elimination of the oral boards.

Really? So you could be practicing for 10 years as a neurologist BE but hopeless to take the boards to become BC because something/someone wont let you pass cause you failed before? Am I getting this right and how stupid is that?

 

[Nerdoscience]

Really? So you could be practicing for 10 years as a neurologist BE but hopeless to take the boards to become BC because something/someone wont let you pass cause you failed before? Am I getting this right and how stupid is that?

I literally don't understand what you are saying, but I have a guess. There is nothing that prevents someone who failed the boards from retrying. Nobody suggested that. It's just that not being good enough to pass them the first time is a big risk factor for still not being able to pass them on subsequent attempts.

 

[GopherBrain]

It's just like the old saying, "If at first you don't succeed, you probably aren't that sharp and are doomed to a life of repeated failure."

 

[Faebinder]

Thought you ment to say that if you fail it once, then they are going to take it into account and fail you again because of this...

As for those who don't pass on the first go round, sorry, but it is a well known fact that if you don't pass the first time, your chances of passing on subsequent tries are much reduced.

Wasnt sure that was ment to be their chances vs others or their chances vs themselves trying the first time.

 

[neurologist]

Thought you ment to say that if you fail it once, then they are going to take it into account and fail you again because of this...


Wasnt sure that was ment to be their chances vs others or their chances vs themselves trying the first time.

To put it in somewhat less Darwinian terms than Gopher Brain: people who fail the first time around have a much reduced chance of scoring a passing grade on subsequent attempts. That's what I meant, not that there is some AAN conspiracy to prevent people from ultimately passing.

 

[soulsearchin]

so basically around 66 percent of the people who compleet the residency and do all the training pass the boards and the rest ie33 percent are not certified to practice neurology.what do they do?

 

[Faebinder]

so basically around 66 percent of the people who compleet the residency and do all the training pass the boards and the rest ie33 percent are not certified to practice neurology.what do they do?

You can still practice as a Board Eligible neurologist.... of course a lot of groups might impose penalties on you till you become board certified.... likewise insurance companies might demand something from you that they don't demand from BC (board certified). That's my understanding from previous threads discussing BC vs BE.

 

[soulsearchin]

okay,now a lot of programs claim their board pass ratio is 100 percent.now if what they say is true it means that there are programs out there whose board pass ratio would be very low,ie20 or 30 percent,which would lead to abalance an overall board passratio of 66 pc.isnt that an alarm bell for anyone applying in neurology?and whats th e best way to find out abut such programs from the start and apply wisely in this sense too...i mean of couorse the big names are a sure guarentee to a high pass ratio but what about the programs which do not have so big names nthere u have to identify which are really good as far as passing boards is concerned?

 

[neurologist]

okay,now a lot of programs claim their board pass ratio is 100 percent.now if what they say is true it means that there are programs out there whose board pass ratio would be very low,ie20 or 30 percent,which would lead to abalance an overall board passratio of 66 pc.isnt that an alarm bell for anyone applying in neurology?and whats th e best way to find out abut such programs from the start and apply wisely in this sense too...i mean of couorse the big names are a sure guarentee to a high pass ratio but what about the programs which do not have so big names nthere u have to identify which are really good as far as passing boards is concerned?

1. To my knowledge, there is no published data on pass rates for individual programs. I'm sure the ABPN has it, but they ain't sharing it with the general public.

2. In the absence of such data, you pretty much are left with rumor and innuendo. I doubt any program director will come out and offer that 80% of their residents fail the boards; I guess you can ask during the interview process, and I would say anyone who dodges or hedges probably has something to hide.

3. Don't be so sure about "top" programs "guaranteeing" a high pass rate. Even top people can blow the boards (especially the orals, if they get flustered). Also, there are many small programs with great board pass rates. And program quality can fluctuate over time: a program that has a 50% pass rate over the last 2 or 3 years may have had 100% pass rate for a couple of years before that, and vice-versa. This is especially true of the smaller programs, due to sample size.

4. For what it's worth, my guess regarding the repeat fails is that many of them are FMG's who have difficulty with English, which obviously is going to put them at a big disadvantage, especially with regard to orals.

5. Of course, all this goes down the drain with oral boards after next year. I am going to guess that under the new system, the overall pass rate will go up.

Bottom line: if you are currently anywhere below the level of PGY4, don't waste any time worrying about the boards as they exist now, because you will have an entirely different experience (does the term "guinea pig" mean anything to you? )

 

[neurodoc]

Supposedly, the first time pass rate for the written section is about 75%, and of those who pass part I, about 75% pass part II on the first try; so that's like about a 2/3 overall pass rate on the first try. As for those who don't pass on the first go round, sorry, but it is a well known fact that if you don't pass the first time, your chances of passing on subsequent tries are much reduced. I don't know how things will work out with the elimination of the oral boards.

0.75 x 0.75 = 0.5625, or closer to 1/2 than to 2/3.

Failing the written exam on the first try can be remedied by studying from texts and Board Review books. The oral exam is another matter. Book study will help there, too, but the orals have a more subjective aspect to them. English fluency is important, and IMG's whose first language is not English may be at a disadvantage. Even if you're fluent in English, there is the "fluster" factor. You need to be able to think on your feet and present yourself in such a way that you impress the examiners. And the examiners can flunk you for unexplainable reasons and since there is no videotaping of the exam, you will have little recourse to challenge a failing grade on the orals. (I think videotaping would be a good idea).

I actually like the idea of oral exams, and I'm sorry to hear that the ABPN is phasing them out. As I wrote elsewhere, I think one motivation to do away with orals is to give the ABPN cover for "grandfathering" lifetime certificates and requiring newer diplomates to recertify.

Re: "Board Eligible" This term is no longer recognized and is increasingly meaningless where it really counts, i.e., for hospital credentialing, insurance billing, professional society recognition, and even legal recognition (as in court recognition as an "expert" witness.

Nick