Board Scores

[BarryPod]

Does anyone know if there is a website to review the board scores from the different schools?

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[krabmas]

Does anyone know if there is a website to review the board scores from the different schools?

as far as I know there is not.

THe Deans get the lists of percentages and some other breakdowns of which schools had the best pass rates fro which subjects.

This info is usually shared with the student council then distributed to other students.

That might be a good idea for AACPM to add that to there lists of charts and graphs.

 

[BarryPod]

as far as I know there is not.

THe Deans get the lists of percentages and some other breakdowns of which schools had the best pass rates fro which subjects.

This info is usually shared with the student council then distributed to other students.

That might be a good idea for AACPM to add that to there lists of charts and graphs.

ya, that's what I was thining. It is a much better stat to tell what kind of program the school has than what is on most of their websites that says they have 100% residency placement which means absolutely nothing.

 

[krabmas]

ya, that's what I was thining. It is a much better stat to tell what kind of program the school has than what is on most of their websites that says they have 100% residency placement which means absolutely nothing.

I just sent an email to AACPM asking if it would be possible to add this stat to their list.

I'll keep you updated.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I just sent an email to AACPM asking if it would be possible to add this stat to their list.

I'll keep you updated.

From what I understand the council of deans will not release the information to the public. Some deans have pushed for the release, but the majority of schools do not want it released for obvious reasons. We are not even allowed to know what the pass rate was at other schools. DMU has had 100% first sitting pass rate 3 of the last 4 years (I think that 1 person has not passed in the last 4 years). The school average is above 90%.

Other students may now the pass rate at their schools, but again. The council of deans is why this info is not public knowledge.

 

[gustydoc]

At the annual APMSA House of Delegates meeting during the APMA National Conference each year there is a council of presidents meeting with the student body president of each school in attendance. Before the meeting we each submit a Presidents report listing such things as the incoming class statistics, residency placement info and board scores. I have noticed that some of the schools choose not to list their board score information or the academic statistics of their incoming students every year. I know from first hand experience that working with the deans and the administrations at our respective schools can be frustrating, but we owe it to ourselves and the students we represent to make sure this information is made public and decisions being made are those that are in the best interest of podiatric medical students. Unfortunately board scores are not required to be released publicly and the deans of our schools can choose whether or not to make these results public. I am proud of the fact that Des Moines University has never hidden the results of our student’s entrance statistics or board scores and I hope that the students at other schools will encourage their faculty to do the same.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

One other things that I like is DMU gives the class profile every year, so those numbers go up and down with each incoming class. At many other schools, I wonder if their "class profiles" are current and accurate.

 

[whiskers]

In my opinion, this secretiveness demonstrates the cowardice of the schools and their administration. If all of these programs are so well instructed, and the schools really care more about the student's education than personal "empire building" then let's all see just how smart their students really are!

Let's just see which schools are doing the right thing for their students by ensuring that they are well prepared and well educated.

These very expensive programs should really be more open and share with the rest of the world the quality of the education they offer. We'd all love to be entertained by these numbers.

I can only wonder why a school would shroud their little scores in such mystery.

What a big joke.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

In my opinion, this secretiveness demonstrates the cowardice of the schools and their administration. If all of these programs are so well instructed, and the schools really care more about the student's education than personal "empire building" then let's all see just how smart their students really are!

Let's just see which schools are doing the right thing for their students by ensuring that they are well prepared and well educated.

These very expensive programs should really be more open and share with the rest of the world the quality of the education they offer. We'd all love to be entertained by these numbers.

I can only wonder why a school would shroud their little scores in such mystery.

What a big joke.

So true. Hey what is your new avitar? Is it a picture from ET?

 

[whiskers]

So true. Hey what is your new avitar? Is it a picture from ET?

I think it's a picture from The Moon-Boot College of Podiatry Science. Those are probably volunteer students, transported there on a telopathic scholarship, attempting to make contact with the few podiatry schools on earth in order to tell them that they are the best school but when questioned about their claim, they wouldn't upload their scores for public scrutiny.

Interstellar? Intergalactic? It may be a long wait.

BTW, the avatar is subject to change without notice. The banana avatars are actually quite appealing too and may very well be just as profound.

 

[gustydoc]

In my opinion, this secretiveness demonstrates the cowardice of the schools and their administration. If all of these programs are so well instructed, and the schools really care more about the student's education than personal "empire building" then let's all see just how smart their students really are!

Let's just see which schools are doing the right thing for their students by ensuring that they are well prepared and well educated.

These very expensive programs should really be more open and share with the rest of the world the quality of the education they offer. We'd all love to be entertained by these numbers.

I can only wonder why a school would shroud their little scores in such mystery.

What a big joke.

I actually agree with wiskers here. I found it really troubling when a school with a board pass rate of around 50% actually asked the rest of use to join them in writing letters to the NBPME complaining about test difficulty. Perhaps it is time for the schools with the consistently low scores to take a hard look at how they are teaching their students during the first two years of their podiatric medical education. I would love to see the schools whose students are having trouble look to other schools as a model for how to better prepare the students, rather than immediately scream that the tests are unfair. I understand there are a lot of egos involved and it may difficult to admit shortcomings, but it is needed for the betterment of the profession.

 

[krabmas]

I actually agree with wiskers here. I found it really troubling when a school with a board pass rate of around 50% actually asked the rest of use to join them in writing letters to the NBPME complaining about test difficulty. Perhaps it is time for the schools with the consistently low scores to take a hard look at how they are teaching their students during the first two years of their podiatric medical education. I would love to see the schools whose students are having trouble look to other schools as a model for how to better prepare the students, rather than immediately scream that the tests are unfair. I understand there are a lot of egos involved and it may difficult to admit shortcomings, but it is needed for the betterment of the profession.

I agree with all of you that the board scores should be made public.

I think the last president's report from NYCPM did not include them not from secrecy but from laziness by the pres. If the report is put together late then getting info from the deans takes a long time and does not make it into the report.

 

[mrfeet]

I actually agree with wiskers here. I found it really troubling when a school with a board pass rate of around 50% actually asked the rest of use to join them in writing letters to the NBPME complaining about test difficulty. Perhaps it is time for the schools with the consistently low scores to take a hard look at how they are teaching their students during the first two years of their podiatric medical education. I would love to see the schools whose students are having trouble look to other schools as a model for how to better prepare the students, rather than immediately scream that the tests are unfair. I understand there are a lot of egos involved and it may difficult to admit shortcomings, but it is needed for the betterment of the profession.

I agree whole-heartedly. I truly believe this (and I could be wrong), but all of the podiatry schools in the United States NEED TO BE AFFILIATED WITH MEDICAL SCHOOLS AND/OR UNIVERSITIES. I believe that we have reached the point in our profession that independent schools are becoming a thing of the past.

America has become education crazy. Just five years ago, a physical therapist could practice with a four-year degree, now it requires a minimum of a master's and some places require a doctorate. Bottom line, podiatry schools need to be affiliated, not just for prestige or name, but in order that there is greater accountability in these programs. Also, so that 50% board passage rates will not stand. I assure you, any medical school or major university would not be pleased with such lackluster standards in one of their programs!

 

[krabmas]

I agree whole-heartedly. I truly believe this (and I could be wrong), but all of the podiatry schools in the United States NEED TO BE AFFILIATED WITH MEDICAL SCHOOLS AND/OR UNIVERSITIES. I believe that we have reached the point in our profession that independent schools are becoming a thing of the past.

America has become education crazy. Just five years ago, a physical therapist could practice with a four-year degree, now it requires a minimum of a master's and some places require a doctorate. Bottom line, podiatry schools need to be affiliated, not just for prestige or name, but in order that there is greater accountability in these programs. Also, so that 50% board passage rates will not stand. I assure you, any medical school or major university would not be pleased with such lackluster standards in one of their programs!

I agree and we are trying to convince our admin of the same. it is an uphill battle to tell someone to merge the school so they can lose their job.

But we will keep trying.

 

[whiskers]

I agree whole-heartedly. I truly believe this (and I could be wrong), but all of the podiatry schools in the United States NEED TO BE AFFILIATED WITH MEDICAL SCHOOLS AND/OR UNIVERSITIES. I believe that we have reached the point in our profession that independent schools are becoming a thing of the past.

America has become education crazy. Just five years ago, a physical therapist could practice with a four-year degree, now it requires a minimum of a master's and some places require a doctorate. Bottom line, podiatry schools need to be affiliated, not just for prestige or name, but in order that there is greater accountability in these programs. Also, so that 50% board passage rates will not stand. I assure you, any medical school or major university would not be pleased with such lackluster standards in one of their programs!

And which administrations are going to do something for the betterment of the profession at the risk of their own power and $ ?

In my opinion, this profession needs more leaders who are less concerned with their own personal advancement and more concerned with the advancement of the profession.

Even at the junior level, how many times have we all heard many of the students running for office talking about how this will look on their CV for residencies. Then they end up kissing the admins donkey and using their position to petition their own advancement, circulate their own name and air their personal gripes?

This profession needs less histrionic and narcissistic behavior and more team players willing to do what is right even if that means they won’t be the star of the podiatry ball.

 

[ProdPod]

And which administrations are going to do something for the betterment of the profession at the risk of their own power and $ ?

In my opinion, this profession needs more leaders who are less concerned with their own personal advancement and more concerned with the advancement of the profession.

Even at the junior level, how many times have we all heard many of the students running for office talking about how this will look on their CV for residencies. Then they end up kissing the admins donkey and using their position to petition their own advancement, circulate their own name and air their personal gripes?

This profession needs less histrionic and narcissistic behavior and more team players willing to do what is right even if that means they won’t be the star of the podiatry ball.

You guys might hate him but he is dead right!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

And which administrations are going to do something for the betterment of the profession at the risk of their own power and $ ?

In my opinion, this profession needs more leaders who are less concerned with their own personal advancement and more concerned with the advancement of the profession.

Even at the junior level, how many times have we all heard many of the students running for office talking about how this will look on their CV for residencies. Then they end up kissing the admins donkey and using their position to petition their own advancement, circulate their own name and air their personal gripes?

This profession needs less histrionic and narcissistic behavior and more team players willing to do what is right even if that means they won’t be the star of the podiatry ball.

I'm on the same boat as Captain Whiskers.

 

[freddydpt]

I agree whole-heartedly. I truly believe this (and I could be wrong), but all of the podiatry schools in the United States NEED TO BE AFFILIATED WITH MEDICAL SCHOOLS AND/OR UNIVERSITIES. I believe that we have reached the point in our profession that independent schools are becoming a thing of the past.

America has become education crazy. Just five years ago, a physical therapist could practice with a four-year degree, now it requires a minimum of a master's and some places require a doctorate. Bottom line, podiatry schools need to be affiliated, not just for prestige or name, but in order that there is greater accountability in these programs. Also, so that 50% board passage rates will not stand. I assure you, any medical school or major university would not be pleased with such lackluster standards in one of their programs!

from a PT... nobody requires a doctorate to practice PT

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

from a PT... nobody requires a doctorate to practice PT

I might be wrong but I would guess that there are plenty of jobs that require a DPT not a MPT.

 

[gustydoc]

And which administrations are going to do something for the betterment of the profession at the risk of their own power and $ ?

In my opinion, this profession needs more leaders who are less concerned with their own personal advancement and more concerned with the advancement of the profession.

Even at the junior level, how many times have we all heard many of the students running for office talking about how this will look on their CV for residencies. Then they end up kissing the admins donkey and using their position to petition their own advancement, circulate their own name and air their personal gripes?

This profession needs less histrionic and narcissistic behavior and more team players willing to do what is right even if that means they won’t be the star of the podiatry ball.

Obviously from my previous posts on this thread I could not agree with you more that there is a serious conflict of interests when it comes to what is best for the profession and what is best for the individuals with all the power. I also agree that there are students in our schools who clearly have only their best interests in mind and have no problem being a puppet for the administration of their school. With that being said, I also think it is important to realize that there are also those among us who take a stand against administrative decisions that we believe are not in the best interest of the students we represent. I received the "you seem like a smart kid, be a team player" speech and it didn't affect me because I knew my loyalties were with the students who gave me the opportunity to represent them. In my limited interaction with student body presidents of other podiatric medical schools I have noticed that there seem to be at least a few others who share a loyalty to what is best for the future of podiatric medicine and not just what is best for the leaders at their schools.

Whiskers, I must admit that I often agree with many of your cynical observations of the problems with podiatric education and the profession. That being said, the fact is that if you don't take it upon yourself to try to enact at least some of the change you are so adamant about everything else is just talk. The anonymity that SDN gives its members is a blessing and a curse, but if you are serious about change why not start to do something about it besides complain... constantly?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Obviously from my previous posts on this thread I could not agree with you more that there is a serious conflict of interests when it comes to what is best for the profession and what is best for the individuals with all the power.

I must point out that what is best for an individual does not necessarily mean that it is bad for the profession. Sometimes when people do things for themselves, it (maybe inadvertently) helps everyone. I don't think that it is necessarily horrible for people to be self promoters; it becomes horrible if they do it at the expense of other or the profession.

 

[freddydpt]

I might be wrong but I would guess that there are plenty of jobs that require a DPT not a MPT.

Sorry, I totally don't mean to keep this going, because I was just visiting on this thread, but I promise that there is not one PT job on this planet that requires a DPT over an MPT. DPT is an entry level degree. In fact, PT's with bachelor's degrees are more sought out in a few cases because they are known to have more experience. (this becomes less and less each year)

 

[capo]

Sorry, I totally don't mean to keep this going, because I was just visiting on this thread, but I promise that there is not one PT job on this planet that requires a DPT over an MPT. DPT is an entry level degree. In fact, PT's with bachelor's degrees are more sought out in a few cases because they are known to have more experience. (this becomes less and less each year)

Fred, I think in some places a DPT would be needed to obtain a Director of PT job though. The DPT seems to open adminstrative doors by virtue of it's "advanced" time being babysat, i.e. more time in grad school getting this illustrious DPT vs. a simpler MPT.

 

[jonwill]

Does anyone know if there is a website to review the board scores from the different schools?

To answer the OP, DMU and Scholl have the highest pass rates of the schools. This has been a pretty consistent outcome.

 

[ProdPod]

To answer the OP, DMU and Scholl have the highest pass rates of the schools. This has been a pretty consistent outcome.

How can you claim this without all the stats?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

How can you claim this without all the stats?

DMU has 100% pass rate 3 out of the last 4 years. The average score is over 90%. According to the USMLE 1st Step, ~85% pass NBPME the first sitting. If you take out 40 CPMS students, that leaves about a 75% pass rate for the rest of the schools.

 

[ProdPod]

If you take out 40 CPMS students, that leaves about a 75% pass rate for the rest of the schools.

Harsh!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Harsh!

But true. We had this discussion at presentation by our dean. As stated before, he really wants the board scores made public.

 

[jonwill]

How can you claim this without all the stats?

Because I've seen the stats.

 

[krabmas]

NYCPM had an 88% pass rate on part I 2005 (class of 2007).

unfortunately this is not the rate every year. this was a high rate for us.

it is left to the student to make sure that they pass. we have board reviews but not many go.

whether or not you pass the boards sort of goes along with the climate of the place of learn if you want and skid by if you want. I think that attitude S_cks.