Ive been noticing fellows who take their board exams after fellowship. How common is this? Do fellowship directors mind if you haven't taken the boards by the time youve started fellowship?
Boards after fellowship?
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It doesn't seem to be a problem at all. I have a former colleague who is taking her AP boards at the end of her second fellowship. Several of our current fellows did not sit for their boards before fellowship. I'm not sitting for my AP boards until October of my fellowship. I haven't heard of it being a problem at all, actually.
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One thing to consider here...
It is REALLY REALLY tough to get a job before you pass your boards. If you are not already board certified when you are job hunting it is going to be VERY difficult to find something. So if you are putting off boards until after fellowship (or 2 fellowships) do not expect to have an easy time finding a job. I didn't know this was common until recently but it might explain some of the job search angst out there.
Take your boards early (ASAP) and then do your fellowship. I wouldn't think that anyone is going to hire someone who might wind up failing the boards after they start work. It is not worth the risk, especially when there are plenty of people out there who take boards as a 4th year resident and then job hunt during fellowship as a board certified pathologist.
If you are not AP/CP board certified it will be VERY hard to compete with those who are (not even counting those with work experience already), particularly for the limited positions out there.
It is REALLY REALLY tough to get a job before you pass your boards. If you are not already board certified when you are job hunting it is going to be VERY difficult to find something. So if you are putting off boards until after fellowship (or 2 fellowships) do not expect to have an easy time finding a job. I didn't know this was common until recently but it might explain some of the job search angst out there.
Take your boards early (ASAP) and then do your fellowship. I wouldn't think that anyone is going to hire someone who might wind up failing the boards after they start work. It is not worth the risk, especially when there are plenty of people out there who take boards as a 4th year resident and then job hunt during fellowship as a board certified pathologist.
If you are not AP/CP board certified it will be VERY hard to compete with those who are (not even counting those with work experience already), particularly for the limited positions out there.
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deleted314957
i disagree. when i was involved in hiring/interviewing people for our pp group, the failure to take and pass boards at the first opportunity was a red flag. you always wondered why didn't they take their boards, what were ther afraid of, are the weak, do they perceive themselves as weak, etc.
take and pass them as soon as possible.
when i was a resident we all took them in may of our last year (this was in the 70's) of ap/cp.
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How do you know if applicants for a job position has taken the boards multiple times or just once? I thought this info was only given to the particular person and his or her program?
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And most of our residents do. But plenty don't, and they don't seem to be having any trouble getting jobs. Our GI fellows the past two years have not taken their AP boards until May of their GI fellowship, and both got jobs lined up before passing the boards. 1 of our 2 current cyto fellows is not taking the boards until this May and already has a job lined up. 1 of the current surgpath fellows is taking the boards this May, also has a job lined up. So we're both going off of anecdotal evidence, for sure, but this doesn't seem to be affecting the people I know. For myself, I was scheduled to do a surgpath year and was going to take my boards in May of that year. But something else opened up after the boards application deadline passed, so now I'm taking them this October instead. I could have taken them this May, I just personally wanted to use the surgpath year where I would not be as hard-pressed for time as I am right now. Granted, that backfired, so now I'll be hard-pressed for time July-Oct, but that's life. But I'll have another set of boards to take the following year, so I've got to get it done now!
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Take them ASAP. I didnt take my boards and I got two interviews. They didn't even call me back until I emailed them that I passed my boards. Two of the other residents passed their boards and got many interviews all over the country (6+). The incoming surgical pathology fellows that passed their boards already had jobs.
I feel like when you send in a CV for a job, there are two piles. BC, or not BC. Make sure yours gets into the BC pile ASAP.
Fellowship is busy! Your FD will be understanding if you have to take boards, but they would rather have you doing fellowship related activities. Rip the bandaid off!
I feel like when you send in a CV for a job, there are two piles. BC, or not BC. Make sure yours gets into the BC pile ASAP.
Fellowship is busy! Your FD will be understanding if you have to take boards, but they would rather have you doing fellowship related activities. Rip the bandaid off!
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You will never have more time to study than in the 4th year of residency. You won't have time during fellowship, at least not any respectable fellowship. Unless you have a good reason then it is a red flag for most practices (and good reasons are really rare).
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In today's job market I think you should give yourself every advantage, and that means having boards done as soon as you can. Even if you have a really good reason for not having them done, I think it is just too easy nowadays for the employers to choose one of the other many candidates who do not have this issue. No one wants to take the time to figure out why they're not done when they can just pick someone else. Good luck.
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Yeah, I'd aim to take the boards as soon as practical, which the end of 4th year is while fellowship generally ain't (more busy for the most part). Agree that with other things being equal, and with the level of competition that may be out there pitting you up against potentially stacks of other applicants rather than none or a couple, it's just one more thing in your favor/not against you. You really, really shouldn't have to do an AP fellowship in order to pass the AP boards (and unless you're doing a general surg path fellowship it will only help you in a limited way anyway), and I doubt very many people asking this question are planning a CP fellowship. I.e., it's not going to get easier by waiting.
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Valid points, all. And in general I would recommend taking it earlier rather than later. But if you don't take it immediately, it's not the end of the world, either.
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Good luck taking CP boards after fellowship. They probably doing that b/c they flunked, not wanting to fess up. Hey someone has to make up that 1/4th that fails.
BY THE WAY....if you delay in taking the boards you may get to explain to an attorney (deposition) why there was a delay in taking the boards. They will try to discredit you and this doesn't look to hot to the jury who made it to 6th grade.
BY THE WAY....if you delay in taking the boards you may get to explain to an attorney (deposition) why there was a delay in taking the boards. They will try to discredit you and this doesn't look to hot to the jury who made it to 6th grade.
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Another vote for "Take them ASAP/doesn't get any easier than end of 4th year/etc." Fellowships are BUSY and one is so bogged down learning a particular area of expertise, there's not really any time/energy to study for regular AP/CP boards. I don't think SP fellowship is going to help make taking AP boards any easier like some people seem to think. SP fellows that I've seen are slammed just getting the work done.
Another way delaying boards can bite you: I have heard that for at least some (maybe all?) fellowships that have their own boards, say like Forensics, you cannot sit for boards until you have passed AP. I know of at least one person who had been working a few years as a non-AP boarded forensic pathologist who eventually had to be let go because s/he failed AP multiple times and thus was not going to be able to take forensics boards.
Another way delaying boards can bite you: I have heard that for at least some (maybe all?) fellowships that have their own boards, say like Forensics, you cannot sit for boards until you have passed AP. I know of at least one person who had been working a few years as a non-AP boarded forensic pathologist who eventually had to be let go because s/he failed AP multiple times and thus was not going to be able to take forensics boards.
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And another problem with delaying boards until after fellowship: even if you do find a job, if you have the misfortune of failing, you are now unemployable. Whereas if you sit for boards as a resident you can retake as a fellow.
Directly from the ABPath:
Requirements for All Subspecialty Certification
a. Candidate must have a primary certification from the ABP, RCPSC (pediatric pathology
only), or current primary and/or subspecialty certification with another ABMS Board.
b. Candidates for combined AP/NP certification must have passed the primary examination
before they will be allowed to sit for the subspecialty examination.
there definitely is a push to get all new FP hires to be boarded. many job descriptions i have seen are at a MINIMUM already AP certified. obviously if they are going to hire someone just out of fellowship they won't yet be FP boarded, but it will be written into their contact that they have to obtain certification in 2-3 yrs. Of course there are still some offices that are troubled/have low pay/are in undesirable locations (or a combo of all three) who seem to be willing to take anyone who has completed a fellowship. i'd say most bigger offices are heading away from this.
as far as SP fellowship helping for the boards, i say BS based on A) i somehow managed to pass those suckers and i'm no SP-star and B) the SP fellows i know seem WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to busy to study let alone manage to sleep and eat.
Do yourself a favor and take them ASAP. it's painful to take them anyway, so why make it more awful than it has to be?
Requirements for All Subspecialty Certification
a. Candidate must have a primary certification from the ABP, RCPSC (pediatric pathology
only), or current primary and/or subspecialty certification with another ABMS Board.
b. Candidates for combined AP/NP certification must have passed the primary examination
before they will be allowed to sit for the subspecialty examination.
there definitely is a push to get all new FP hires to be boarded. many job descriptions i have seen are at a MINIMUM already AP certified. obviously if they are going to hire someone just out of fellowship they won't yet be FP boarded, but it will be written into their contact that they have to obtain certification in 2-3 yrs. Of course there are still some offices that are troubled/have low pay/are in undesirable locations (or a combo of all three) who seem to be willing to take anyone who has completed a fellowship. i'd say most bigger offices are heading away from this.
as far as SP fellowship helping for the boards, i say BS based on A) i somehow managed to pass those suckers and i'm no SP-star and B) the SP fellows i know seem WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to busy to study let alone manage to sleep and eat.
Do yourself a favor and take them ASAP. it's painful to take them anyway, so why make it more awful than it has to be?
