Bodybuilding and Med School?

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DoctorDork

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Hey Fellow Med Students,
I'm getting to the end of my second year and have my boards coming up so I know at this immediate time is not the best to start bodybuilding. However has anyone ever started bodybuilding while in med school? Its a life time goal of mine to get into the sport and i feel like I'm only going to get older and its going to be more and more difficult if I don't start soon. Any tips on how you managed to do it? Also I would really like some tips on training. I go to the gym as much as I can (4-6 days/wk depending on the week) but I've never been able to really bulk up beyond what I think is my genetic potential. I'm also a runner but I try to only run 1 day/week so I don't get too skinny.

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Hey Fellow Med Students,
I'm getting to the end of my second year and have my boards coming up so I know at this immediate time is not the best to start bodybuilding. However has anyone ever started bodybuilding while in med school? Its a life time goal of mine to get into the sport and i feel like I'm only going to get older and its going to be more and more difficult if I don't start soon. Any tips on how you managed to do it? Also I would really like some tips on training. I go to the gym as much as I can (4-6 days/wk depending on the week) but I've never been able to really bulk up beyond what I think is my genetic potential. I'm also a runner but I try to only run 1 day/week so I don't get too skinny.

You should check out the "working out in med school thread" further down the opening page. You'll get some ideas.
 
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Hey Fellow Med Students,
I'm getting to the end of my second year and have my boards coming up so I know at this immediate time is not the best to start bodybuilding. However has anyone ever started bodybuilding while in med school? Its a life time goal of mine to get into the sport and i feel like I'm only going to get older and its going to be more and more difficult if I don't start soon. Any tips on how you managed to do it? Also I would really like some tips on training. I go to the gym as much as I can (4-6 days/wk depending on the week) but I've never been able to really bulk up beyond what I think is my genetic potential. I'm also a runner but I try to only run 1 day/week so I don't get too skinny.

I'm not really a bodybuilder but I do try to work out 3-4x a week and eat a balanced healthy diet. I never plan to compete but do enjoy working out and being in good shape. In fact I just reached a personal goal of mine, benching over 300lbs last week. I'm nearing the end of my second year too and fear that I will have to tone it down a little with board studying, and then I can do it a bit more 3rd and 4th year, but after that I suppose I will have to tone it down even more because residency will be brutal (especially if I get into surgery).

How "bulked up" are you? I have no idea how much progress you've made and how knowledgeable you are about working out, but it is almost safe to assume you have not reached your genetic potential. Not eating enough is always the limiting factor..
 
Hey bro, I used to be a competitive BBer back in my early undergrad days; however, a nasty shoulder injury sidelined me for quite a while. While I returned to the gym, I never did return to the stage...anyway, that's enough about me. In regards to your question, becoming a competitive BBer and being in medical school (and ultimately residency) would be extremely difficult, and I'd really doubt you'd have enough time to dedicate to both endeavors w/o robbing one or the other. Now, while you may not become the next Mr. Olympia, that doesn't mean that you can't train and build a good physique.

As far as tips are concerned, I'd really have to know your body type to give you specific advice. However, the most important (and most neglected by beginning weightlifters) nugget of information that I can give to you is that diet is HALF of the equation. You stated that you're looking to bulk up, so I'd pretty much shove every lean source of protein (along with a foods rich in complex carbs and healthy fats) down your throat. Again, it's hard to estimate since I don't know your physical stats, but I'd say you should be putting down anywhere from 3000-4000 calories/day on a bulk cycle.

In regards to your training, you're going to want to keep your rep range relatively low (4-8) and use the heaviest weight you can find that will accommodate that rep range. Additionally, you're going to want to focus on compound movements (i.e. bench, deadlifts, squats) to put that mass on ASAP.

In general, those are my suggestions; obviously there's more minutia involved in the general aforementioned formula…so if you're still curious, you can always shoot me a PM. Also, I'd check out this website www.animalpak.com and browse around. The site's forum, which is an online board for some pretty hardcore BBers and PLers, is an excellent place to ask questions and get some quality feedback. Anyway, best wishes as you begin your journey in the iron game.
 
Thanks for the quick responses you guys! Its kinda what I already figured, med school means probably not a good time for starting my journey into bodybuilding. As for stats, I'm 6'0'' 171lbs. I've been lifting religiously for the past 8 years. I"m definitley not a "novice" in the weight room. I do protein, i've done creatine, played around with various workout routines. I would say most of my friends would label me as being very musclar or toned. However the opinion of the avg person who doesn't workout in comparison to mine, are two different beasts. I'm well aware of the whole "low rep high intensity" philosphopy, and the need to make diet a priority (which is probably what I struggle with the most. so if you've got tips on how to eat I really would love to hear them), I just think I've kinda reached a point where I really need someone who's already a bodybuilder and accomplished that goal to really take me under their wing to help me to get to that level.
 
Dedikated2liftin and I posted some good advice in the already linked to thread on time management in nutrition and workout sessions.

I'm still training towards my debut in strongman/powerliftiing but have been prevented from a May/June meet by a wrist surgery.

Being a competitive strength athlete or bodybuilder isn't really about time as much as it is intelligence and dedication. I spend about 8-12 hrs a week in the gym, but a lot of that is rehab (11 years of parsonage-turner syndrome and consequent various spinal issues). You really don't need more than 90 minutes a session 4-5x a week. I've managed that on 80hr/week rotations despite all of my NMSK issues so i don't see why anyone couldn't. It sucked a little, but ultimately not that much. Even when your shcedule is that sucky, I'm sure you can find 6 hours a week that you waste.

But you have to understand optimum nutrition and programming. You have to have the discipline to get your protein, take your supplements, and stay focused in the gym.

Like dedikated said, you probably arne't going to be mr. olympia, but an amateur show or two a year isn't out of the question, especially during 4th year and again in later years of residency.

www.t-nation.com is my website of choice for lifting information, although animalpak is pretty good too. Do yourself a favor and grab Fred Delavier's Strength Training Anatomy. Supplement with books and ebooks from cosgrove, waterbury, thibideau and others. Success is about knowledge as anything. If you don't understand optimum nutrition and optimum programming you aren't gonna achieve your goals no matter how much effort you put in. And stay away from the temptation to believe that more = better.
 
Hey Fellow Med Students,
I'm getting to the end of my second year and have my boards coming up so I know at this immediate time is not the best to start bodybuilding. ...

You definitely should work out when you have time, but honestly in 3rd year you won't have the consistent workout schedule necessary to bulk up. During those rotations where you are working 13 hour days and doing q4 overnights (inpatient medicine, surgery, obgyn, etc) and need to study for a shelf on top of that, you are lucky to work out an hour a week, let alone the 4-6 times you are doing now. You'll have more time during things like psych, but that's a shorter rotation than the others. So basically you should do what you can in 3rd year not to lose all the muscle you have, but I wouldn't expect the time necessary for any improvement. No time, no sleep, and bad/hurried diet doesn't translate into muscle mass. People either tend to drop a lot of weight and look gaunt due to lack of time to sit and eat, or they put on some fat because they only have time for the quick carbs.

Parts of 4th year (especially after interviews if you get the Steps and sub-Is out of the way early) you should have more serious time. But then for most residencies, your schedule reverts to the worst of 3rd year as an intern.
 
Law2Doc,
You're basically saying all the things that I've already thought of. However like I said before this has been of dream of mine since high school and I don't want to start on this journey (which does take years) after residency and I'm ~35yrs old. So while I know surgery, ob/gyn and med rotations are going to kick my ass, I still that think that during peds, family, and psych I'd at least like to start learning how to get myself on the right path.
 
see below
 
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This is not true for everyone- I was able to consistently work out during my third year of medical school. During surgery, I worked >14 hours a day and still managed to hit the gym 4-5x/wk. If you are dedicated to working out, you will get to the gym NO MATTER WHAT.

What you shouldn't do:
After your day is done, stop off at McDonald's and pick up a big mac (5 minutes)
Wait while your food is being made (3 minutes)
Grap napkins, ketchup and a straw (1 minute)
Find a seat, sit down, eat (15 minutes)
Allow the food to sit there (10 minutes)
Get up, go home, change (15 minutes)
Drive to the gym (10 minutes)

Total time to get to gym: ~1 hour

What I did:
After surgery, drive straight to gym (5 minutes)
Change into gym clothes while in car (20 seconds)
Eat snack while walking to gym (0 seconds)

Total time to get to gym: ~5 minutes


Also, while in the gym, make use of your time: read between sets, read while doing cardio. If you have to study, go to the library right after the gym.


You definitely should work out when you have time, but honestly in 3rd year you won't have the consistent workout schedule necessary to bulk up. During those rotations where you are working 13 hour days and doing q4 overnights (inpatient medicine, surgery, obgyn, etc) and need to study for a shelf on top of that, you are lucky to work out an hour a week, let alone the 4-6 times you are doing now. You'll have more time during things like psych, but that's a shorter rotation than the others. So basically you should do what you can in 3rd year not to lose all the muscle you have, but I wouldn't expect the time necessary for any improvement. No time, no sleep, and bad/hurried diet doesn't translate into muscle mass. People either tend to drop a lot of weight and look gaunt due to lack of time to sit and eat, or they put on some fat because they only have time for the quick carbs.

Parts of 4th year (especially after interviews if you get the Steps and sub-Is out of the way early) you should have more serious time. But then for most residencies, your schedule reverts to the worst of 3rd year as an intern.
 
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What you shouldn't do:
After your day is done, stop off at McDonald's and pick up a big mac (5 minutes)
Wait while your food is being made (3 minutes)
Grap napkins, ketchup and a straw (1 minute)
Find a seat, sit down, eat (15 minutes)
Allow the food to sit there (10 minutes)
Get up, go home, change (15 minutes)
Drive to the gym (10 minutes)

Total time to get to gym: ~1 hour

For some reason, when I first read your post I missed the "shouldn't" and I thought that's what you were advocating and I thought to myself, "huh that really is kind of non-conventional" :D
-Roy
 
Definitely not a Body Builder, but trying to get into better shape. Has anyone here played around with supplements other than Creatine and Protien? Particularly the Nitrogen supplements I keep seeing at GNC? In y'all's experience do they actually do anything?
 
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I'd like to hear input on the topic of supplements also.

My current regime is pretty basic. 2-3 shakes of a protein blend and a pre-workout drink. Right now I'm cycling through BSN's Syntha-6 and NO Xplode.
 
I'd like to hear input on the topic of supplements also.

My current regime is pretty basic. 2-3 shakes of a protein blend and a pre-workout drink. Right now I'm cycling through BSN's Syntha-6 and NO Xplode.



I'm not one of those supplement nazis, but a lot of things are either overpriced, ineffective, or (more often) both.

The typical "Rx" for a bodybuilder, at least starting out, is a decent whey protein, a multivitamin, and maybe some creatine (and not this sugar-injected powder mix stuff, just get some plain old creatine monohydrate or CEE, don't waste your money with the additives).

Specifically for the NO products, they essentially give you more of a "pump" via vasodilation. If you want a similar-yet-cheaper effect, supplement with L-Arginine (about 3g ~1 hour prior to a workout). But again, this is essentially for aesthetics . . . I'm pretty sure it doesn't deliver on any of those claims to "deliver more O2/nutrients to your muscles!!!!!!!!" Basic biochemistry should confirm that for you.

Anyway, I'm not gonna get into things further since A) I'm very busy at the moment and B) I can go on and on and on about this kind of thing, but I will leave you with one last piece of advice: never buy stuff from GNC. You can easily get stuff for much cheaper online (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ is a good place to start).
 
Cheap supplements:

whey protein, I prefer natural stuff. $38.99 for 5 lbs
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_on051.htm

creatine, no need to go fancy and pay for marketing hype, $15.70 for 4 lbs
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_cb038.htm
After 2 weeks, you don't need 5 grams. 2.5 grams of creatine will suffice


Post-workout meals are important, you want a lot of simple carbs to prevent further muscle breakdown. Breakfast is also important, something with protein + some carbs.
 
I guess my ignorance helped me fall for the marketing hype. Although I have gained about 8 to 10 pounds in the last few months, so something must be working for me.

I'm all for saving money, though. Are these other supps you guys mentioned just as effective? Should I stick to a pure whey protein as opposed to those fancy blends?

And I also still don't get this whole creatine thing. I mean I understand how it works, but when should it be taken and how often?
 
Cheap supplements:

whey protein, I prefer natural stuff. $38.99 for 5 lbs
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_on051.htm

creatine, no need to go fancy and pay for marketing hype, $15.70 for 4 lbs
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_cb038.htm
After 2 weeks, you don't need 5 grams. 2.5 grams of creatine will suffice


Post-workout meals are important, you want a lot of simple carbs to prevent further muscle breakdown. Breakfast is also important, something with protein + some carbs.


You're still overpaying. The "4lb" of creatine is mostly extra stuff. For 43g or so of powder, only 5.25g is creatine. That's like 227g for $15. You can get a 500g container for $14.99: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/dym/creatine.html . If you really think you need something sweet to take it with (or to spike insulin, or blah blah blah) just buy some cheap-o fruit drink mix (or pure dextrose if you're into that).

As for whey, I use Dymatize Elite at http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/dym/elite.html - it's $35.99 for 5lb (used to be $26 before the whole china/whey/cow thing). You can get 10lbs for $67.99 too.

As for creatine dosing, conventional wisdom is stick with a 5g/day dose of monohydrate (or 2.5g/day CEE) but NO NEED TO LOAD at 20g/day for 10 days for monohydrate like most labels tell you to do.
 
And no, I don't have any stock in BB.com or in Dymatize. I just don't like to get ripped off, and like to spread some (hopefully) helpful tips.
 
I have a fairly complex regimen, but its necessitated by MSK issues and spending as much time in the gym as I do (which is too much for almost anyone).

Staple:
Protein:
Stay the hell away from soy. Egg is fine but expensive. Whey and Casein are the meat and potatoes of weight training. Whey is a fast-absorbed protein. Perfect for times when cortisol is high (morning) and when your anabolic drive is highest (post-workout). Casein is a slow digesting protein that results in relatively stable blood levels so it's good to keep your body from thinking its starving.

You can get by with just whey protein. one shake in the morning. one post-workout. One at night.

A more optimal but still manageable routine is:
1. whey/casein blend in the morning(I prefer 100% whole gains by biorhythm nutrition. But the whey/casein blend by optimum nutrition is good too.
2.whey post-workout (I just use a straight bulk whey. Whatever's cheap and has LOW SODIUM).
3. Casein at night (I use Optimum nutrition's 100% casein from GNC).

Supplements:
Creatine:
The first thing you need to understand about creatine is that it is not a supplement. It's a nutrient. It's most plentiful in lean red meat and fish. If you eat a lot of fish or high quality grass fed beef, it's most likely not going to do much of anything.

5g is plenty for anyone. No need to load. If you find that you are pissing more than you did before, YOU ARE TAKING TOO MUCH.

There are also myths about creatine's stability inwater. It's all crap. Creatine monohydrate works just fine. No need to get fancy.

ZMA:
This is not a must on everyone's list but it is on mine. Most adults in america are zinc/magnesium deficient. This goes double for anyone who trains hard. Unfortunately, due to the poor quality of produce in this country (mass production means less nutritional quality) it can be quite hard to get enough zinc and magnesium in your diet from fresh produce. ZMA supplements have been shown to decrease cortisol, improve sleep quality, and even increase testosterone response to weightlifting. All good things. Take before bed time.

THis is the only 'vitamin' type pill I take.

Omega three fatty acids:
An absolute must for everyone, whether they work out or not. I get 3.5 grams a day and am thinking about upping it to 6. Again, food quality is theprimary culprit here. Everything from our produce to our meats suffers from nasty n-6/n-3 ratios due to modern agricultural methods. Make sure your pills don't include n-6 fatty acids (unless it's GLA) since you get too much from your diet already and the whole point of supplementation is to improve that n-6/n-3 ratio in your diet. I prefer to take mine at bedtime but only for speculative reasons.

Things that may be of some benefit:
BCAAs. You may see them touted for all sorts of things. Really what they're good for is intra-workout nutrition. A must if your workouts are longer than about 45 minutes. And intense. They keep your body from going catabolic due to the stress-starvation state. I don't put anyone I train on these unless they're running or otherwise engaged in long-duration exercise (have a friend training for a half marathon. He guzzles them while he runs).

Preworkout/NO2 supplements: For some they work, for some they don't. I am skeptical of the whole no2 effect beyond aesthetics. Look for relatively low caffeine. I have exercise induced asthma (mild) and found this is excellent for forestalling that (no doubt mostly due to the caffeine). I've also found some improvement in focus and my rest periods have dropped (which is nnot due to the caffeine since before i used pre-workout supplements I'd drink a cup of coffee). That said, again, this is something I don't recommend to any but super-hardcore people.

Basically

A barebones regimen would be whey protein, creatine, ZMA, and n-3FA
A more advanced would be whey/casein, whey, casein, creatine, ZMA, and n-3FA.
And only bother with the other stuff if you really need it.

As for test-boosters, I won't touch em. No one has any clue on long term effects. Being better in bed and gaining an extra 3-5 lbs of muscle in your 20s may be nice, but not at the expense of andropause 10-20 years earlier. Conjectural risk, granted, but strong enough for me to feel its' not worth it.

Even my regimen costs less than 100 a month. I know it sounds like a lot, but just as I said about finding 6 hours a week you waste, you can find 100 a month you waste. I've sacrificed too much blood, sweat, and tears on the barbell to even look twice at that expense.
 
Two final things. the most underappreciated 'supplement' is sleep. You don't put on muscle in the gym. You do it in stages 3 and 4.

And for the love of god keep a journal. Go wiliam james on your own self. You are unique and ultimately only you can figure out what works for you and what doesn't. I have juggled my training routines and supplement regimens so often it's not even funny over the years. I know what works and I know what doesn't. I need less protein than most, more creatine than most, and find I only need about 1/4 of what it says on the label for my preworkout supplement. I also train a lot differently than the powerlifting gurus say I should, but because I've experimented and controlled as best as I can, I know that it works. God knows how much time I wasted following cookie cutter routines prior to that.
 
Thanks, man, that was exactly what I was looking for!

What's the deal with soy? Why should I stay away from it?
 
Soy protein itself is not only hard to digest and kinda crappy, but also full of phytoestrogens. This is actually an evolved herbivore defense mechanism. Male animals that eat too much soy get sterile. Female animals end up with an estrogen excess that results in less than optimum conditions for getting and staying pregnant. The result is that animals that eat soy, don't reproduce...

I figure if sheep have learned not to eat the stuff, we should too.

Soy is NOT a staple in the countries that originally grew it (asia) but rather a condiment, but mostly a nitrogen fixer in crop rotation.

Contrary to vegan assertions, the human gut isn't actually built to deal that well with extracting nutrients from vegetables. We are much closer in gut length and structure to a dog (well wild canid) than to most other primates or herbivores. Wild canids are true omnivores with up to 40% of their diet coming from plants. However, they mainly use easily digestible sources of plant nutrition. Soy doesn't qualify here either.

Soy HERE was pushed on us by the ag industry since they figured if they could sell the produce from a nitrogen fixer they could have their cake and eat it too. Americans have a rate of soy consumption that is orders of magnitude higher than that of the people that originally domesticated the stuff! I think that should tell us something as well.

Some reading on soy with primary lit cites:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...erformance_nutrition/soy_is_still_bad_protein
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...er/bad_protein_a_testosterone_consumer_report

Just to start you off. Plenty more to be found in google. You'd have to be dead not to noticec the feminization/infertility/urogenital malformation trend in men, precocious puberty in girls, and the increase in incidence of gynecologic/breast cancers. Some of it no doubt attributable to bisphenol A, pthalates, and especially to soy, which by some estimates can make up to 40% of our diets even in those who don't go out of their way to eat soy protein or drink soy milk.

I think it's pretty telling that even the most historically militanty and stringently vegetarian society (hindus) were lacto-ovo-vegetarians, mostly becase they recognized that animal-source proteins are pretty crucial.
 
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I guess my ignorance helped me fall for the marketing hype. Although I have gained about 8 to 10 pounds in the last few months, so something must be working for me.
...

A lot of it's mental. Many of the walls you hit while working out are in your brain. So if you think you should be able to lift more, do more reps, you probably can. And thus if you believe the marketing hype, it might work for you, regardless of whether there is any science behind it.

Most of the supplements that are hyped have no real research behind their claims. Whey protein and creatine (and even caffeine) have been studied somewhat (although with inconsistent and debated results), but most of the other supplements lack the contolled study you'd want to see before swearing by them. These things have unfortunately not been widely looked at since the attacks on steroids and andro in the public arena, and because the FDA doesn't restrict claims on supplements, a lot of things out there can make crazy and unsubstantiated claims.
 
Law2Doc,
You're basically saying all the things that I've already thought of. However like I said before this has been of dream of mine since high school and I don't want to start on this journey (which does take years) after residency and I'm ~35yrs old. So while I know surgery, ob/gyn and med rotations are going to kick my ass, I still that think that during peds, family, and psych I'd at least like to start learning how to get myself on the right path.

Do what you can, but I think what basupran describes is unrealistic for the schedules a lot of us had in 3rd year, and reading between sets is fine for the brief pimp prepping, but inadequate for preparing presentations, serious studying for the shelf etc. You have to prioritize, and if you have to sacrifice a few days a week of lifting to do well in your rotation, that's what you've gotta do. Some people will have more time to spare than others, but the norm during the rougher rotations at US allo schools is going to be closer to what I describe than what basupran is describing. As I said, things like psych, (as well as family, peds, outpatient medicine) ought to give you a few more hours a week to work out, depending on how comfortable you are with the shelf material. But yeah, do what you can. I suspect you will be doing enough to stay pat, but not enough to really bulk during this year, but everyone's experience and body is a bit different.
 
It depends on your goals. "Bodybuilding" in the sense of physique and symmetry is much less about gym time and more about rigorous diet and nutrition. I was a D1 athlete in the ACC and I couldn't even keep up with my lifting program in medical school let alone stay with a bodybuilding diet.

If competition isn't your goal, then sure you can get ripped pretty easily: again, it's just diet. However, I feel that a proper diet is extremely difficult to maintain in school simply because you're going to have an erratic schedule.

If you've never lifted before, don't jump into a bodybuilding routine. Either find someone in your class that can teach you the basic compound lifts or find a gym with people that actually train. You can try reading a book like Starting Strength, but it'll slow your progress down learning the lifts without a teacher. Your 6x/week lifting program is too much unless you're on steroids.

Sites like animalpak and t-nation are basically fronts for companies peddling products of varying utility so take their messages with a grain of salt. That's not to say that their articles are complete bunk, but they'll usually make a good point and then say "product X from BIOTEST or ANIMALPAK is AWESOME and what you really need to get huge!"

You don't need any supplements to start aside from a decent protein. Really, all you do is eat good foods, lift properly, and you'll see immediate growth.
 
It depends on your goals. "Bodybuilding" in the sense of physique and symmetry is much less about gym time and more about rigorous diet and nutrition. I was a D1 athlete in the ACC and I couldn't even keep up with my lifting program in medical school let alone stay with a bodybuilding diet.

If competition isn't your goal, then sure you can get ripped pretty easily: again, it's just diet. However, I feel that a proper diet is extremely difficult to maintain in school simply because you're going to have an erratic schedule.

If you've never lifted before, don't jump into a bodybuilding routine. Either find someone in your class that can teach you the basic compound lifts or find a gym with people that actually train. You can try reading a book like Starting Strength, but it'll slow your progress down learning the lifts without a teacher. Your 6x/week lifting program is too much unless you're on steroids.

Sites like animalpak and t-nation are basically fronts for companies peddling products of varying utility so take their messages with a grain of salt. That's not to say that their articles are complete bunk, but they'll usually make a good point and then say "product X from BIOTEST or ANIMALPAK is AWESOME and what you really need to get huge!"

You don't need any supplements to start aside from a decent protein. Really, all you do is eat good foods, lift properly, and you'll see immediate growth.


I can't speak much for t-nation, but the majority of the articles and forum posts on the animalpak website are pretty neutral when it comes to pushing a product at the expense of giving good advice. Don't get me wrong, they're obviously a supplement company, so there is the occassional attempt to push their products; however, it's no where near as bad as some of the other companies (MuscleTech comes to mind). Anyway, to the OP, I probably should've made the point when I posted the link (in regards to the fact that they are a supplement company); however, I believe that they do a decent job at keeping the whole marketing aspect minimized throughout the website.
 
It depends on your goals. "Bodybuilding" in the sense of physique and symmetry is much less about gym time and more about rigorous diet and nutrition. I was a D1 athlete in the ACC and I couldn't even keep up with my lifting program in medical school let alone stay with a bodybuilding diet.

If competition isn't your goal, then sure you can get ripped pretty easily: again, it's just diet. However, I feel that a proper diet is extremely difficult to maintain in school simply because you're going to have an erratic schedule.

If you've never lifted before, don't jump into a bodybuilding routine. Either find someone in your class that can teach you the basic compound lifts or find a gym with people that actually train. You can try reading a book like Starting Strength, but it'll slow your progress down learning the lifts without a teacher. Your 6x/week lifting program is too much unless you're on steroids.

Sites like animalpak and t-nation are basically fronts for companies peddling products of varying utility so take their messages with a grain of salt. That's not to say that their articles are complete bunk, but they'll usually make a good point and then say "product X from BIOTEST or ANIMALPAK is AWESOME and what you really need to get huge!"

You don't need any supplements to start aside from a decent protein. Really, all you do is eat good foods, lift properly, and you'll see immediate growth.



I'll second everything here, and add that "eating properly" is often not always intuitive to beginners. Without going overboard (I say that because diet can really consume you if you're ultra-anal about it, and that's really not what a beginner needs), take a look at something like this one: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/stella9.htm . It's a decent starting point if you're thinking about progressing towards more "healthy" eating and aren't sure where to start.


Are you starting a diet but still scratching your head at the grocery store when trying to choose healthy foods? Print this grocery list for use on your next trip to the grocery store.

Healthy Grocery Shopping List.

By: Stella Juarez

Are you starting a diet but still scratching your head at the grocery store when trying to choose healthy foods? Print this grocery list for use on your next trip to the grocery store.

Proteins - Learn More

* Boneless, Skinless Chicken Breast
* Tuna (water packed)
* Fish (salmon, seabass, halibut)
* Shrimp
* Extra Lean Ground Beef or Ground Round (92-96%) - Learn More
* Protein Powder - Learn More
* Egg Whites or Eggs - Learn More
* Ribeye Steaks or Roast
* Top Round Steaks or Roast (aka Stew Meat, London Broil, Stir Fry)
* Top Sirloin (aka Sirloin Top Butt)
* Beef Tenderloin (aka Filet, Filet Mignon)
* Top Loin (NY Strip Steak)
* Flank Steak (Sir Fry, Fajita)
* Eye of Round (Cube Meat, Stew Meat, Bottom Round , 96% LeandGround Round)
* Ground turkey, Turkey Breast Slices or cutlets (fresh meat, not deli cuts)

Complex Carbs - Learn More

* Oatmeal (Old Fashioned or Quick Oats)
* Sweet Potatoes (Yams)
* Beans (pinto, black, kidney)
* Oat Bran Cereal
* Brown Rice
* Farina (Cream of Wheat)
* Multigrain Hot Cereal
* Pasta
* Rice (white, jasmine, basmati, Arborio, wild)
* Potatoes (red, baking, new)

Fibrous Carbs - Learn More

* Green Leafy Lettuce (Green Leaf, Red, Leaf, Romaine)
* Broccoli
* Asparagus
* String Beans
* Spinach
* Bell Peppers
* Brussels Sprouts
* Cauliflower
* Celery

Other Produce & Fruits - Learn More

* Cucumber
* Green or Red Pepper
* Onions
* Garlic
* Tomatoes
* Zucchini
* Fruit (if acceptable on diet): bananas, apples, grapefruit, peaches, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries
* Lemons or Limes

Healthy Fats - Learn More

* Natural Style Peanut Butter
* Olive Oil or Safflower Oil
* Nuts (peanuts, almonds
* Flaxseed Oil - Learn More

Dairy & Eggs

* Low-fat cottage cheese
* Eggs
* Low or Non-Fat Milk

Beverages

* Bottled Water
* Diet Soda
* Crystal Light

Condiments & Misc.

* Fat Free Mayonnaise
* Reduced Sodium Soy Sauce
* Reduced Sodium Teriyaki Sauce
* Balsamic Vinegar
* Salsa
* Chili powder
* Mrs. Dash
* Steak Sauce
* Sugar Free Maple Syrup
* Chili Paste
* Mustard
* Extracts (vanilla, almond, etc
* Low Sodium beef or chicken broth
* Plain or reduced sodium tomatoes sauce, puree, paste)
 
by no means am i a bodybuilder, but I am a lifting enthusiast and I work out about 4-5 days/week. I am kind of surprised how many people here advocate creatine, even for beginners. I always assumed that I was getting enough creatine by eating red meat, is this not the case?
-Roy
 
Do what you can, but I think what basupran describes is unrealistic for the schedules a lot of us had in 3rd year, and reading between sets is fine for the brief pimp prepping, but inadequate for preparing presentations, serious studying for the shelf etc. You have to prioritize, and if you have to sacrifice a few days a week of lifting to do well in your rotation, that's what you've gotta do. Some people will have more time to spare than others, but the norm during the rougher rotations at US allo schools is going to be closer to what I describe than what basupran is describing. As I said, things like psych, (as well as family, peds, outpatient medicine) ought to give you a few more hours a week to work out, depending on how comfortable you are with the shelf material. But yeah, do what you can. I suspect you will be doing enough to stay pat, but not enough to really bulk during this year, but everyone's experience and body is a bit different.

"Some people will have more time to spare than others, but the norm during the rougher rotations at US allo schools is going to be closer to what I describe than what basupran is describing."

Umm, I go to a US allopathic school.

If you are dedicated to school and lifting, you can make it to the gym 4-5x/wk and get honors during cores. I was able to work out hard during surgery, neurosurgery, peds, and internal med without sacrificing my grades. In fact, I would say that the gym was what enabled me to do well in medical school. Try it-instead of going straight for the books after a long days work, go to the gym and vent. You will have an easier time focusing when you get back.
 
I prefer natural stuff so I purchase ON Natural Whey (none of the acesulfame stuff you find in Dymatize, though I like the %isolate that is in dymatize)....

As far as the creatine goes, I shoot for the post-workout sugar load + insulin spike. I used to do the dextrose + creatine mix but didn't like the messiness...the EAS Phosphagen was only 15 bucks and lasted me over 2 months so I went with it.

You're still overpaying. The "4lb" of creatine is mostly extra stuff. For 43g or so of powder, only 5.25g is creatine. That's like 227g for $15. You can get a 500g container for $14.99: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/dym/creatine.html . If you really think you need something sweet to take it with (or to spike insulin, or blah blah blah) just buy some cheap-o fruit drink mix (or pure dextrose if you're into that).

As for whey, I use Dymatize Elite at http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/dym/elite.html - it's $35.99 for 5lb (used to be $26 before the whole china/whey/cow thing). You can get 10lbs for $67.99 too.

As for creatine dosing, conventional wisdom is stick with a 5g/day dose of monohydrate (or 2.5g/day CEE) but NO NEED TO LOAD at 20g/day for 10 days for monohydrate like most labels tell you to do.
 
by no means am i a bodybuilder, but I am a lifting enthusiast and I work out about 4-5 days/week. I am kind of surprised how many people here advocate creatine, even for beginners. I always assumed that I was getting enough creatine by eating red meat, is this not the case?
-Roy

You don't get enough to get the fast recoveries that supplementing creatine can give you, especially if you are doing an intense workout regimen (4-6 days of heavy lifting a week).
 
I prefer natural stuff so I purchase ON Natural Whey (none of the acesulfame stuff you find in Dymatize, though I like the %isolate that is in dymatize)....

As far as the creatine goes, I shoot for the post-workout sugar load + insulin spike. I used to do the dextrose + creatine mix but didn't like the messiness...the EAS Phosphagen was only 15 bucks and lasted me over 2 months so I went with it.



Good deal, just throwing that out there. I'm stuck in my ways so until Dymatize ruins their product or something I'll probably stick with it. And I used to be a creatine+dextrose kinda guy post-workout, but now I don't really do that, I just toss back a teaspoon of creatine, then have my shake.
 
You don't get enough to get the fast recoveries that supplementing creatine can give you, especially if you are doing an intense workout regimen (4-6 days of heavy lifting a week).

So the primary purpose of creatine after workout is for shorter recoveries?
Sorry if this question seems ******ed, but I have a few years of experience with lifting but I know very little about lifting nutrition and supplementation and I am trying to learn more. Unfortunately, it seems like the type of thing heavily permeated by advertising bull**** and other vested interests (some were previous posters were talking about websites that front for supplement businesses). However, the posters in this thread seem to be very knowledgeable and objective, very much to their credit!
-Roy
 
So the primary purpose of creatine after workout is for shorter recoveries?
Sorry if this question seems ******ed, but I have a few years of experience with lifting but I know very little about lifting nutrition and supplementation and I am trying to learn more. Unfortunately, it seems like the type of thing heavily permeated by advertising bull**** and other vested interests (some were previous posters were talking about websites that front for supplement businesses). However, the posters in this thread seem to be very knowledgeable and objective, very much to their credit!
-Roy

No problem, supplements can be very confusing and misleading. And I agree, many products on the market are not necessary, however creatine is something that is very useful and effective (despite all of the uneducated hype about how bad it is.)

Creatine is a phosphate that helps out with muscle recovery. As my science teacher put it (if I remember correctly, he told me last year, he was an avid bodybuilder and football coach) it creates like a protective barrier, if you will, around the muscle cells. This makes it so that when you use your muscles when you aren't working out, it prevents the micro tears and things from happening, so your muscles continue to grow and recover.

A lot of times it is used as a pre-workout supplement because of the increased pumps which lead to better blood flow to the muscles, however I always took it as an immediate post-workout supp.

Then, there are the supplements that are purely cosmetic. Waximaise, for example, is something you add to your protein drink. Older bodybuilders will rave about it because it "makes you bigger", however, the only thing it actually does is take water from the skin and lets it into your blood vessels, increasing blood volume. This increases vascularity and makes you look more cut, but it in fact is only cosmetic and doesn't get you any bigger. These are the things you have to watch out for when looking for supplements (and talking to the 50 year old steroid nut who runs the place ;) )

I myself only take Met-Rx Whey protein. It's great stuff, and it tastes really good. It also has no anabolics in it. I use to take Cell-Tech creatine and then I switched to Met-Rx Creatine, but that was when I was playing football while lifting. Since I don't really need it anymore, I don't waste my time with it.
 
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So the primary purpose of creatine after workout is for shorter recoveries?
Sorry if this question seems ******ed, but I have a few years of experience with lifting but I know very little about lifting nutrition and supplementation and I am trying to learn more. Unfortunately, it seems like the type of thing heavily permeated by advertising bull**** and other vested interests (some were previous posters were talking about websites that front for supplement businesses). However, the posters in this thread seem to be very knowledgeable and objective, very much to their credit!
-Roy

Every person responds to supplements differently. For me, it seems to give me an extra rep or two and I also feel more explosive during my lifts. My lifts aren't necessary stronger but they feel cleaner and more controlled which explains why I can do the extra rep or two.
 
Creatine is a phosphate that helps out with muscle recovery. As my science teacher put it (if I remember correctly, he told me last year, he was an avid bodybuilder and football coach) it creates like a protective barrier, if you will, around the muscle cells. This makes it so that when you use your muscles when you aren't working out, it prevents the micro tears and things from happening, so your muscles continue to grow and recover.

Heh my understanding of creatine (from biochemistry) was that its a phosphorus source for ADP (higher phosphorylation potential) so that it supplementary recharges your ATP thus giving you better short-term endurance (like Basupran said, a few more reps). I often here that there are quite a number of negative side effects with creatine, is that a legitimate concern?
-Roy
 
Heh my understanding of creatine (from biochemistry) was that its a phosphorus source for ADP (higher phosphorylation potential) so that it supplementary recharges your ATP thus giving you better short-term endurance (like Basupran said, a few more reps). I often here that there are quite a number of negative side effects with creatine, is that a legitimate concern?
-Roy

Hahah, I'm sure that's correct as well, but it's also a cell volumizer (at least from what I learned).

No, there have been no scientifically-proven ill effects from the CORRECT use of creatine. People say that it damages your kidneys, but that may be due to improper "loading" phases (which you should never do), or not drinking enough water (which it makes clear on the label).
 
Hahah, I'm sure that's correct as well, but it's also a cell volumizer (at least from what I learned).
That's pretty much the theory I learned. You improve the number of reps you can do because it ups the rate your metabolism works at, and then you recover faster because water follows the creatine in (high osmolarity) which for some reason I don't quite get improves recovery times. So you do high intensity exercise better and recover from all exercise faster.
 
Heh my understanding of creatine (from biochemistry) was that its a phosphorus source for ADP (higher phosphorylation potential) so that it supplementary recharges your ATP thus giving you better short-term endurance (like Basupran said, a few more reps). I often here that there are quite a number of negative side effects with creatine, is that a legitimate concern?
-Roy




Just passing through here while studying, but two common side effects are slight weight gain at the initial onset (~5lbs of WATER weight) and increased incidence of muscle cramps (for example, when running).
 
Just passing through here while studying, but two common side effects are slight weight gain at the initial onset (~5lbs of WATER weight) and increased incidence of muscle cramps (for example, when running).

Hmm, I did notice some water weight when I was on creatine, but I used it during track season as well and never experienced any out of ordinary muscle cramps (at least that I remember).
 
Hmm, I did notice some water weight when I was on creatine, but I used it during track season as well and never experienced any out of ordinary muscle cramps (at least that I remember).


That's good to hear. It's usually associated with sprinting and can present as cramps or strains/pulls. But it's not something everyone's going to inevitably experience, obviously.
 
Do what you can, but I think what basupran describes is unrealistic for the schedules a lot of us had in 3rd year, and reading between sets is fine for the brief pimp prepping, but inadequate for preparing presentations, serious studying for the shelf etc. You have to prioritize, and if you have to sacrifice a few days a week of lifting to do well in your rotation, that's what you've gotta do. Some people will have more time to spare than others, but the norm during the rougher rotations at US allo schools is going to be closer to what I describe than what basupran is describing. As I said, things like psych, (as well as family, peds, outpatient medicine) ought to give you a few more hours a week to work out, depending on how comfortable you are with the shelf material. But yeah, do what you can. I suspect you will be doing enough to stay pat, but not enough to really bulk during this year, but everyone's experience and body is a bit different.

You can find 5 hours a week that you waste even during the worst parts of third year. It is doable. I usually found more. And still managed not to neglect my parents, my gf, or my dog. Or miss an episode of scrubs, burn notice, or psych. Yes it requires dedication, but you can do it.

Edit: if you have kids, maybe not so much.
 
You don't get enough to get the fast recoveries that supplementing creatine can give you, especially if you are doing an intense workout regimen (4-6 days of heavy lifting a week).

Depends on how much red meat you're getting and the quality of it. If you're eating grass fed free range beef and eating a lb a day you're more than likely going to be fine (also that is not a huge amount for someone who's seriously weight training).

I don't eat beef, so I supplement.
 
So the primary purpose of creatine after workout is for shorter recoveries?
Sorry if this question seems ******ed, but I have a few years of experience with lifting but I know very little about lifting nutrition and supplementation and I am trying to learn more. Unfortunately, it seems like the type of thing heavily permeated by advertising bull**** and other vested interests (some were previous posters were talking about websites that front for supplement businesses). However, the posters in this thread seem to be very knowledgeable and objective, very much to their credit!
-Roy

Lol it gets incredibly confusing since we don't get much nutrition basic sciences teaching.

But you take creatine post workout beause that's when your absorption is going to be highest. Some people take it with sugar to increase the insulin spike (which increases muscle absorption of proteins, creatine, and pretty much everything...that's the point of insulin...not just glucose). I don't see the point since I'm going to drink it with a post workout shake that has sugar in it anyway.

NEVER take it pre-workout because its hygroscopic. It'll act as an osmotic diuretic and actually pull fluid from your muscles and connective tissue into your bloodstream. Dehydrated muscle is not a good thing. As its absorbed by the muscle, it'll actually help to hold water in your muscle (giving you that instant 5-10lb boost in muscle volume that a lot of people love). The excess, though, will lead to volume depletion and dehydration of the tissues. This is why it's important not to overconsume creatine. Just like a lot of nutrients, there can be too much of a good thing.

Creatine actually reduces your INTRA-WORKOUT recovery. More lifting done means more growht stimulus.

Some of the side effects people have talked about are the result of consuming TOO MUCH creatine (in which case hte excess amount will stay in your bloodstream and continue to act as an osmotic diuretic drying out your tissues). Or taking it at the wrong time (i.e. pre-workout). Taken in the right dosage (or provided by red meat and or fish--a lot of it), all of the creatine ends up in your muscle and nowhere else. That means more water in your muscles (which makes you look pretty--personally don't give a crap about that), and the already alluded to source of phosphate for turning ADP into ATP, meaning more anaerobic capacity (which BBers and strength athletes and sprinters love).

Again, the simplest way to figure out your creatine dosage and water intake is estimating your urinary frequency/volume. If it's increased, you took too much. It's increased because the excess creatine is acting as an osmotic diuretic. Start with a teaspoon in the morning and a teaspoon after your workout and go downwards. Never upwards.
 
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What Whey do you guys use? I use Muscle Milk on my bulk, because it has a ton of calories, but i'm not a fan of it's saturated fat content. I also use MetRX whey, which is pure protein and little of anything else. I have used On's protein also, which is similar to MetRX, pure quality protein.

BTW, masterofmonkeys is spot on about creatine. And yeah, that stuff does make you look real pretty by swelling up your muscles with water.
 
You can find 5 hours a week that you waste even during the worst parts of third year. It is doable. I usually found more. And still managed not to neglect my parents, my gf, or my dog. Or miss an episode of scrubs, burn notice, or psych. Yes it requires dedication, but you can do it.
...

Um, not so much. If you go to a place which takes advantage of the fact that med students don't have an 80 hour/week limitation during some rotations, and you have any sort of commute, and still have to spend a little time preparing presentations or studying for the shelf, you can kiss a lot of what you describe goodbye. Most people will lose the TV and workout first before the gf and dog. It has nothing to do with dedication. It has to do with the number of hours in the day and the fact that between logging crazy hours in the wards, studying/preparing, and sleeping 5 hours per day, you have very few left over, if any. You can absolutely have weeks where you are going flat out with no time to work out. Zero. Nada. Not an issue of "making time" -- there is simply no way to do so without violating the laws of physics. For many of us, there were weeks during 3rd year where on the non-call days, we were getting in at 5 am and not getting home until 10-11 at night, and still had some studying/presentation work to do. Guess what? No TV, no gf/dog, no workout those weeks. Nothing to do with dedication.

By contrast, in other months, you will have time to work out a ton. But you won't have the consistency in 3rd year because each rotation is going to be different.

I think you and a prior poster are taking your own, comfortable schedule and extrapolating it to other places. But in fact whether it is "doable" depends. It very well may not be "doable" during some weeks in some rotations at some schools. And I suspect there are even worse schedules than what I described. In which case you do what you can, but it may not be much, or even anything. That's all I'm saying.
 
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So just to get it straight, I should look for a good whey protein and creatine supp in addition to maintaining a healthy diet?

The protein should be morning, post-workout, and before sleeping.

The creatine should be morning and post-workout.

Also, to confirm amount, I've heard that one should consume 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. Is this a good rule to go on?

And from what I've read here, 1 teaspoon of creatine will do?

This is a great thread, guys! Thanks for all the input.
 
But you take creatine post workout beause that's when your absorption is going to be highest. Some people take it with sugar to increase the insulin spike (which increases muscle absorption of proteins, creatine, and pretty much everything...that's the point of insulin...not just glucose). I don't see the point since I'm going to drink it with a post workout shake that has sugar in it anyway.




Well, table sugar (sucrose) won't really spike your insulin levels (until it's broken down and the glucose can be utilized, but that's more of a slow glucose drip). Neither will fructose, found in most fruits, at least not to any appreciable amount compared to glucose (dextrose). So if your goal is an insulin spike, I'm pretty sure the banana in your PWO shake (just tossing that in as an example) won't do a whole lot directly for that.
 
Um, not so much. If you go to a place which takes advantage of the fact that med students don't have an 80 hour/week limitation during some rotations, and you have any sort of commute, and still have to spend a little time preparing presentations or studying for the shelf, you can kiss a lot of what you describe goodbye. Most people will lose the TV and workout first before the gf and dog. It has nothing to do with dedication. It has to do with the number of hours in the day and the fact that between logging crazy hours in the wards, studying/preparing, and sleeping 5 hours per day, you have very few left over, if any. You can absolutely have weeks where you are going flat out with no time to work out. Zero. Nada. Not an issue of "making time" -- there is simply no way to do so without violating the laws of physics. For many of us, there were weeks during 3rd year where on the non-call days, we were getting in at 5 am and not getting home until 10-11 at night, and still had some studying/presentation work to do. Guess what? No TV, no gf/dog, no workout those weeks. Nothing to do with dedication.

By contrast, in other months, you will have time to work out a ton. But you won't have the consistency in 3rd year because each rotation is going to be different.

I think you and a prior poster are taking your own, comfortable schedule and extrapolating it to other places. But in fact whether it is "doable" depends. It very well may not be "doable" during some weeks in some rotations at some schools. And I suspect there are even worse schedules than what I described. In which case you do what you can, but it may not be much, or even anything. That's all I'm saying.

You can always work out a little bit at home. Nothing too hardcore, but push ups, and train with dumbells before you go to sleep.
 
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