Bond University

[IveGotQuestions]

Hey everyone,
I tried looking up information on this university, but wasn't able to find very much. If there are any current attendees or past graduates of Bond University's Medical school who could help me (or anyone who knows any information regarding the University) then that would be great.
What are the programs at Bond like? How competitive is it to get in? Is the workload tough? Does the fact that it doesn't have a WHO listing on the World Directory of Medical Schools matter too much when wanting to come to Canada to do a residency? How recognized is this university and the standards of education?
Thanks in advance.

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[IveGotQuestions]

Does anyone know the advantages/disadvantages of Bond University?

 

[Hayden2102]

Advantage: every medical school in Australia is the same in the sense that they are all equally recognised internationally and have extensive quality control measures implemented and governed by the AMC. 4.5-year undergraduate degree. Australia's only private university (this actually means it's less competitive); the campus is like a resort.

Disadvantage: probably none for you. For Australian citizens it is a disadvantage because as it is a private university, all positions in the courses are full fee paying, not commonwealth supported. But since you are an international student it doesn't matter because you are paying full fee anyway.

I find it difficult to believe it's not on WHO's list.

And you've checked out the Bond website haven't you?

 

[redshifteffect]

Advantage: every medical school in Australia is the same in the sense that they are all equally recognised internationally and have extensive quality control measures implemented and governed by the AMC. 4.5-year undergraduate degree. Australia's only private university (this actually means it's less competitive); the campus is like a resort.

Disadvantage: probably none for you. For Australian citizens it is a disadvantage because as it is a private university, all positions in the courses are full fee paying, not commonwealth supported. But since you are an international student it doesn't matter because you are paying full fee anyway.

I find it difficult to believe it's not on WHO's list.

And you've checked out the Bond website haven't you?

Here's a disadvantage, high tuition cost (even for an International spot) + high cost of living.

 

[IveGotQuestions]

Yea I've checked out their website. They even openly mention that they are still trying to get WHO status. The program and the length sounds appealing. They have about 1 teacher for every 11 students. But would you have a lot of free time to prepare for the USMLE's since there are 3 semesters? I guess you wouldn't be able to do electives in the states or Canada during the summers...

 

[willcandude]

wow 4.5 years only for high-school leavers... how do they manage to teach everything in 4.5 years? doesn't it take at least 5 years in countries offering medicine to high-school leavers, like the UK? blows my mind :S

 

[Hayden2102]

wow 4.5 years only for high-school leavers... how do they manage to teach everything in 4.5 years? doesn't it take at least 5 years in countries offering medicine to high-school leavers, like the UK? blows my mind :S

Well, it's four years for graduate positions, and they teach the same stuff... so they manage to fit it all into four years there... same with all US courses.

 

[jon stewart]

is bond recognized in the US as a legit med school?

 

[willcandude]

Well, it's four years for graduate positions, and they teach the same stuff... so they manage to fit it all into four years there... same with all US courses.

ooo my bad. i got confused. i thought its a 4.5 year medicine degree open to high-school leavers.... haha my bad sorry

 

[Hayden2102]

ooo my bad. i got confused. i thought its a 4.5 year medicine degree open to high-school leavers.... haha my bad sorry

No dude, you're right, it is open to high-school leavers, but both high school leavers and graduate students need to learn the same stuff to be a doctor, so what's so weird about an undergrad 4.5 year med course?

 

[Hayden2102]

is bond recognized in the US as a legit med school?

All Australian schools are recognised the same, so whatever every other Australian school is recognised as, Bond is the same.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

ooo my bad. i got confused. i thought its a 4.5 year medicine degree open to high-school leavers.... haha my bad sorry

McMaster University Medical school in Canada is only 3 years.

Basically they don't get as many holidays.. same concept.

They've taken a 5-6 year med program and crunched it to 4 1/2 without holidays.

 

[IveGotQuestions]

The reason why it's only 4.5 years is because there are 3 semesters per year. Basically you don't get the summer off. The first semester starts in May, so I guess high school students can't really apply until a year after graduation because we still have school in May!! It sounded like such an awesome school and program until I realized that point.
Dr Millisevert: Is that 3 years at McMaster plus 4 years of BSc? Can you apply to McMaster with 3 years of BSc? Finally, do you have a grill? (You don't have to answer the last one, I'm just trying to be funny and if it didn't make anyone laugh, then I guess I'm not funny. )

 

[willcandude]

The reason why it's only 4.5 years is because there are 3 semesters per year. Basically you don't get the summer off. The first semester starts in May, so I guess high school students can't really apply until a year after graduation because we still have school in May!! It sounded like such an awesome school and program until I realized that point.
Dr Millisevert: Is that 3 years at McMaster plus 4 years of BSc? Can you apply to McMaster with 3 years of BSc? Finally, do you have a grill? (You don't have to answer the last one, I'm just trying to be funny and if it didn't make anyone laugh, then I guess I'm not funny. )

o hmm 4.5 years without holidays. the uq 4-year program i'll be going to only has a dec and half of jan long holiday... so i guess Bond students don't have that... so they get 6 months extra to learn stuff... so plus 4.5 years, so it's still 5 years! i see now.

at McMaster, u can get into the program with only 3 years of bachelor. so minimally, 3+3 years of school. note that calgary also is a 3 years program.

i'vegotquestions, maybe you should do 3 years and apply before thinknig of overseas, since it'd be hard to go back into competitive specialities in canada afterwards. u never know, maybe u'll be one of those students that get into med with only 3 years.

 

[IveGotQuestions]

Yea, I really would like to stay in Canada with my family and all. But right now I'm just trying to check out what's available out there, you know what I mean? I just don't want to find out about a program later on and then regret the choice that I made. I hope I can finish Med School in 6 years in Canada. That would be awesome. I hope to go into Cardiology so I guess staying in Canada would help.

 

[IveGotQuestions]

By the way, I'm doing IB, so if I want to take the three years of BSc option, I can skip first year of BSc at UofCalgary or McGill with credits from IB and then apply to med schools in my third year at university (which would be the actual fourth year of BSc). Or I could apply to Med School with 90 credits by taking the first year and applying in the third year of BSc. Which option is better? With the first option I'll be prepared better for the MCATs but with the second option my GPA would be higher because I would have already studied everything in the first year of BSc. Which is more important: MCAT scores or GPAs?

 

[Hayden2102]

o hmm 4.5 years without holidays. the uq 4-year program i'll be going to only has a dec and half of jan long holiday... so i guess Bond students don't have that... so they get 6 months extra to learn stuff... so plus 4.5 years, so it's still 5 years! i see now.

at McMaster, u can get into the program with only 3 years of bachelor. so minimally, 3+3 years of school. note that calgary also is a 3 years program.

i'vegotquestions, maybe you should do 3 years and apply before thinknig of overseas, since it'd be hard to go back into competitive specialities in canada afterwards. u never know, maybe u'll be one of those students that get into med with only 3 years.

Yeah but that doesn't make much sense because it doesn't matter what bachelor you have for graduate medical programs. You can go into it with an arts degree, and you'll come out of the med degree knowing the same amount of medicine so they teach you everything you need to know in the graduate programs, just like in the undergraduate programs.

 

[willcandude]

i still think a high-school-leaver medicine program should still be at least 1 year longer than a graduate-entry medicine program. i mean, you need to have the science foundation in biochemistry and basic life sciences in order to understand the mechanisms in the body..

for canada and us, i think this is especially true. sciences in gr12 (canada) is very very basic and simple. i know European secondary schools have 1 extra year, but for many years, European med school insists on a 5-year curriculum for high-school-leavers, so i believe there's a strong reason to that.

i'vegotquestions, do you happen to go on premed101. because i remember there's a gr11 canadian student asking about going into cardiology, and unfortunately, all the older posters started making fun of him

i don't think it's a good idea to skip 1st year. many, if not most, need 1st year of university to adjust to univ life.... i know many people who do well in high school suffer marks-wise in 1st year, then improve alot 2nd year onwards.

us values MCAT more than canada. but it varies by school in canada. i think you should do well in both lol

 

[IveGotQuestions]

No I don't go on premed101. I don't know the premises behind him being made fun of but, poor guy . I'm glad I haven't encountered that.... (yet.)
Another reason why lots of European schools allow a shorter program for high school leavers is because of IB. It's an international curriculum and so it should meet the standards of almost all schools. They all require higher level chemistry which basically covers grade 11 and 12 chemistry and year 1 (and some year 2) University Chemistry. Or at least that's what my teacher told me... Canadian schools aren't as generous as European schools and only offer credits for courses or in the case of McGill and U of Calgary first year.

 

[redshifteffect]

No I don't go on premed101. I don't know the premises behind him being made fun of but, poor guy . I'm glad I haven't encountered that.... (yet.)
Another reason why lots of European schools allow a shorter program for high school leavers is because of IB. It's an international curriculum and so it should meet the standards of almost all schools. They all require higher level chemistry which basically covers grade 11 and 12 chemistry and year 1 (and some year 2) University Chemistry. Or at least that's what my teacher told me... Canadian schools aren't as generous as European schools and only offer credits for courses or in the case of McGill and U of Calgary first year.

Academically speaking I think you will be able to adjust. It will be a challange at first but nothing unsurmountable. However I think your main issue might be adjusting to the drastic change of living far away from home and being independent.

That is the issue with most of the Canadians that I've encountered that I've met here. I think the fact that Canada is so far away, and the fact that many of us have no lived abroad before arriving here will make it difficult and challanging at first, combined with the fact that you will not likely have the maturity and experience that some of the other "post-grad" Canadaians will have. If however you think that you can deal with this issues, then you will likely be okay. From my experience the highschool students seem to be okay academically, as the highschool based Medschool here "eases" you into it, because they are used to dealing with former highschool students. However the majority of issues I see are Home sickness, and a strong urge to return to the familiarity of Canada.

 

[IveGotQuestions]

However the majority of issues I see are Home sickness, and a strong urge to return to the familiarity of Canada.

Yea, that's why I'm sort of hesitant to go away and study. I've never lived away from my family for more than 3 days. But I guess if I can find a country where I do have relatives, it should be better. The whole fact that I won't always get to participate in family functions and weddings is sort of sad, but then I guess it's all worth it once you're a doctor.

 

[Hayden2102]

i still think a high-school-leaver medicine program should still be at least 1 year longer than a graduate-entry medicine program. i mean, you need to have the science foundation in biochemistry and basic life sciences in order to understand the mechanisms in the body..

for canada and us, i think this is especially true. sciences in gr12 (canada) is very very basic and simple. i know European secondary schools have 1 extra year, but for many years, European med school insists on a 5-year curriculum for high-school-leavers, so i believe there's a strong reason to that.

i'vegotquestions, do you happen to go on premed101. because i remember there's a gr11 canadian student asking about going into cardiology, and unfortunately, all the older posters started making fun of him

i don't think it's a good idea to skip 1st year. many, if not most, need 1st year of university to adjust to univ life.... i know many people who do well in high school suffer marks-wise in 1st year, then improve alot 2nd year onwards.

us values MCAT more than canada. but it varies by school in canada. i think you should do well in both lol

I disagree. You can get into graduate programs with an arts degree with no background in science.

It might be different in Canada and the US, but in Australia all medical schools teach the same information in the end.

That's why all the undergraduate courses are getting shorter and shorter to meet the four-year graduate program length.

 

[willcandude]

Another reason why lots of European schools allow a shorter program for high school leavers is because of IB. It's an international curriculum and so it should meet the standards of almost all schools. They all require higher level chemistry which basically covers grade 11 and 12 chemistry and year 1 (and some year 2) University Chemistry. Or at least that's what my teacher told me... Canadian schools aren't as generous as European schools and only offer credits for courses or in the case of McGill and U of Calgary first year.

ah so which European countries offer 4-year medicine degree to high-school leavers? i only know that the UK offer 4-year programs, but they are graduate entry

interesting, IB reaching as far as year2 chemistry. wow that gives you an edge not only in year1 but year2 also then!

i personally think it'd be a negative thing if Canadian medical programs allow high-school leavers to enter medicine directly.

but i'vegotquestions, if you want to get thru med as fast as possible, then definitely go to Bond for 4.5 years, go back to Canada for residency. You would save at least the 3 years of undergrad. but remember though, there is a chance that you might not get in until ur 2nd or 3rd try...

Alternatively, apply to Brown University. They have a high-school-entry Medicine program as well. I think its either 6 or 7 years. Going to Ireland isn't too bad either, since they apparently have a high matching rate for Canadian residency.

I disagree. You can get into graduate programs with an arts degree with no background in science.

It might be different in Canada and the US, but in Australia all medical schools teach the same information in the end.

That's why all the undergraduate courses are getting shorter and shorter to meet the four-year graduate program length.

i guess i don't know the oz school system well enough. do people with arts degree have to take certain pre-reqs before they can apply for graduate-entry? i'd imagine that people from arts would need to prove that they can do well in the basic science requirements before school would admit them

i think that's an efficient education system in australia then! It is not economically sound for the government, to have students first finish an undergrad degree before going to med school. all those extra funding for undergrad spots! but then again, i think the quality of students who succeed in entering into graduate-entry med will be higher, because of the extra "weeding" process during undergrad

my 2 cents

 

[Hayden2102]

i guess i don't know the oz school system well enough. do people with arts degree have to take certain pre-reqs before they can apply for graduate-entry? i'd imagine that people from arts would need to prove that they can do well in the basic science requirements before school would admit them

i think that's an efficient education system in australia then! It is not economically sound for the government, to have students first finish an undergrad degree before going to med school. all those extra funding for undergrad spots! but then again, i think the quality of students who succeed in entering into graduate-entry med will be higher, because of the extra "weeding" process during undergrad

my 2 cents

The competency requirement is only that you did well enough on the GAMSAT to get in to medical school in the first place.

Whether graduate entry makes better doctors is up for debate too, I'm not sure of what sort of "weeding" you are referring to. One could argue that the better students already got into medicine in undergrad... just one perspective.

 

[willcandude]

The competency requirement is only that you did well enough on the GAMSAT to get in to medical school in the first place.

Whether graduate entry makes better doctors is up for debate too, I'm not sure of what sort of "weeding" you are referring to. One could argue that the better students already got into medicine in undergrad... just one perspective.

ah interesting. in north america, schools require students to complete required science courses to apply. so there're big differences.

well what i meant by weeding is that... in north America, many people do very well in highschool.. class marks are high, with lots of 90s... imho, i think the differences between a 95 and a 100 in highschool is not very big at all.... but in univ, marks spread out much much more. univ is the place where school can significantly tell 1 student apart from another.. and many freshman in univ can't keep the marks they have in highschool.. and it gets more competitive as you go to year2, year3, etc, so the people who can't keep up with their marks may find it harder to get into med school....so i'd say this is a "screen/weed"

and in America, they also look for people who are more well-rounded - volunteer work, extracurricular activities. so people who can handle the academic rigor better and have good time-management tend to have both good marks and well-rounded activities. so this is the another "screen/weed"

so maybe Australia's highschool education is much more demanding and difficult, so that's why schools can readily tell the ones with lots of potential apart. in this case, then you can get the better students.. but in Canada, this is not possible.

 

[redshifteffect]

ah so which European countries offer 4-year medicine degree to high-school leavers? i only know that the UK offer 4-year programs, but they are graduate entry

interesting, IB reaching as far as year2 chemistry. wow that gives you an edge not only in year1 but year2 also then!

i personally think it'd be a negative thing if Canadian medical programs allow high-school leavers to enter medicine directly.

but i'vegotquestions, if you want to get thru med as fast as possible, then definitely go to Bond for 4.5 years, go back to Canada for residency. You would save at least the 3 years of undergrad. but remember though, there is a chance that you might not get in until ur 2nd or 3rd try...

Alternatively, apply to Brown University. They have a high-school-entry Medicine program as well. I think its either 6 or 7 years. Going to Ireland isn't too bad either, since they apparently have a high matching rate for Canadian residency.




i guess i don't know the oz school system well enough. do people with arts degree have to take certain pre-reqs before they can apply for graduate-entry? i'd imagine that people from arts would need to prove that they can do well in the basic science requirements before school would admit them

i think that's an efficient education system in australia then! It is not economically sound for the government, to have students first finish an undergrad degree before going to med school. all those extra funding for undergrad spots! but then again, i think the quality of students who succeed in entering into graduate-entry med will be higher, because of the extra "weeding" process during undergrad

my 2 cents

Funny you mentioned both Brown and Ireland. I wrote my SAT Is and IIs and I got into Brown and Case Western in the US, as well as Trinity College in Ireland. Main reason I chose not to go to the US was cost. Living expenses and tuition are really expensive, and also you still have to maintain a B+ average to be able to get into the med school (or that was their policy 6 years ago).

Academically speaking you had to have at least a 1450 in the SAT Is at the time, and that was considered pretty competitive. I can't remember what they required for the SAT IIs.

If you want to do a difficult speciality like Radiology, Derm or something like that I think that the US is the way to go. Ireland is not much better than Australia; at the time I got a one year exemption form their 6 year course because I had completed an OAC...still wasn't worth it to me. If you didn't get back to Canada or the US no jobs were available in Ireland. However the advantage to Ireland is that it's very close and definitely affordable to fly home 2X a year, vs. maximum 1X year to Canada (unless you want to shell out the extra money).

 

[jon stewart]

and in America, they also look for people who are more well-rounded - volunteer work, extracurricular activities. so people who can handle the academic rigor better and have good time-management tend to have both good marks and well-rounded activities. so this is the another "screen/weed"

While i agree that this is genuine in its intent, it has become more of garbage among many "premeds". Many poeple don't do stuff that they want to or are interested in. They do it because the person behind them is doing it. Its sad that the purpose of making some well rounded these days has just made them more conforming to what others are doing.

having been in both countries, they criteria for judging good future physicians has its ups and downs in both countries.

 

[Fay Pollock]

Hey everyone,
I tried looking up information on this university, but wasn't able to find very much. If there are any current attendees or past graduates of Bond University's Medical school who could help me (or anyone who knows any information regarding the University) then that would be great.
What are the programs at Bond like? How competitive is it to get in? Is the workload tough? Does the fact that it doesn't have a WHO listing on the World Directory of Medical Schools matter too much when wanting to come to Canada to do a residency? How recognized is this university and the standards of education?
Thanks in advance.

I coordinate Bond University MBBS Admissions. The program is primarily for domestic applicants to provide much-needed Australian doctors. Admission is highly competitive and only international applicants with a cumulative Distinction average (>85%) would be considered for invitation to the structured interview. Of the hundreds of applications in 2007, 130 were interviewed and only 85 of those were approved for entry. Our tri-semester year enables medical students to complete the MBBS in 4.6 years (with other degrees, such as the Bachelor of Health Science, taking only 2 years to complete). FEE-HELP is available to Australian citizens to meet some of the cost of the program. Please refer to the Bond website for MBBS enquiries (including FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions) http://www.bond.edu.au/study/courses/hsm/ug/mbbs01.html

As a general principle, each country's relevant Medical Accreditation Board determines which qualifications it accepts for the purposes of registration as a doctor. You would need to consult the Medical Council of Canada for their requirements at http://www.mcc.ca/english/registration/index.html The Bond University Medical Program is eligible for listing with the WHO Directory of International Medical Schools – this means that our program has been accredited by our country's relevant accreditation body, the Australian Medical Council (AMC). The WHO Department of Human Resources for Health (HRH) has undertaken discussions and preliminary agreement with the University of Copenhagen, Denmark, concerning the establishment of a Global database of health professions educational institutions that will replace the current World Directory of Medical Schools. WHO has been planning to replace the World Directory of Medical School to include other academic health institutions (schools of dentistry, nursing, midwifery, pharmacy, public health, and rehabilitation specialist).
When this database is finalised, it is expected that the Bond University Medical Program will be included given it satisfies the requirements for listing

 

[IveGotQuestions]

Hi Fay Pollock,
Thank you for your help. The information you provided really helped me in terms of choosing which unversities to apply to. I wasn't too familiar with the Austrailian medical school system previously. Bond University sounds like an extraordinary university and I've heard that the campus is very beautiful. I hope to apply to Bond University this year.
By the way, do you know what the approxiamate International Baccalaureate score needed for admission to Bond University is?
Thanks.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

ah interesting. in north america, schools require students to complete required science courses to apply. so there're big differences.

Not really true.

McMaster Medical school in Canada (north american and LCME accredited) is only 3 years long and does NOT require any pre-reqs. It is extremely competative however because they have so many applicants.

Also, Melbourne University in Australia is starting to require some science pre-reqs for its 4 year grad med program.
Melbourne Med So, they have a variety of admissions structures in both countries.

 

[Ezekiel20]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I have doubts about 4.5yr undergrad programs.

I'm in a 4-year medical course myself, so I'm not talking about the length of the program. However, given that it is possible to finish high school while still 17, you can actually be as young as 21 when you're an intern.

Hardworking students can no doubt cope with the academic demands of medical school whether they're 17 or 21 years old, but in my opinion, it is pretty hard at 21 years of age to have the maturity that is required of a doctor. I'm 24 and in my 3rd year, but I still don't know how to react when patients unexpectedly cry on me.

But then again, Newcastle Uni has been offering 5-yr undergrad degrees for decades, and I've met doctors from there who were great, so it makes me think..

 

[Fay Pollock]

Hi Fay Pollock,
Thank you for your help. The information you provided really helped me in terms of choosing which universities to apply to. I wasn't too familiar with the Australian medical school system previously. Bond University sounds like an extraordinary university and I've heard that the campus is very beautiful. I hope to apply to Bond University this year.
By the way, do you know what the approximate International Baccalaureate score needed for admission to Bond University is?
Thanks.

The IB minimum total you will need to be competitive is 38. This will give you a ranking of 98+ and potential interview eligibility. (Interview eligibility 'cut-offs' cannot be determined until all applications have been received). The Bond Medical program requires a minimum pre-requisite of senior high school Chemistry, English and highest level mathematics.
Applications are open to international applicants on the Bond website from early October and close in mid February. Interviews are conducted on campus (only) in the last 2 weeks of February and offers are sent around 1st March. MBBS Cohorts commence in the May semester of each year.

 

[IveGotQuestions]

Thank you Fay Pollock. If I am completing high school in June 2008 and writing the IB exams in May 2008, when should I apply to Bond University since my exams begin in the same month as the first semester? Do I apply after graduation?

 

[Off2Oz]

It might be different in Canada and the US, but in Australia all medical schools teach the same information in the end.

Hey Hayden, I've seen you mention this a few times now.. What sources are you using to determine whether or not all Aussie schools teach the *same* thing in the end?

It's just that I think that sort of statement closes down discussion about pros/cons of Aussie med schools regarding their content. They don't seem to be equal to me.

From what I've seen, Aussie schools are more different from each other than schools in Canada/US are. For example, you've got Melbourne, Sydney, UQ, Flinders.. all of which are quite different in one way or another from a curriculum perspective.

I'm not trying to troll here or anything - I'm just a little taken aback when you suggest that the level of academic organization/content is the same regardless of where you are! It really doesn't seem to be so..

And yes, we all need to know everything in the end - it's just that at some schools, the information is more readily available and at others, well, you have to teach yourself.

 

[Hayden2102]

Hey Hayden, I've seen you mention this a few times now.. What sources are you using to determine whether or not all Aussie schools teach the *same* thing in the end?

It's just that I think that sort of statement closes down discussion about pros/cons of Aussie med schools regarding their content. They don't seem to be equal to me.

From what I've seen, Aussie schools are more different from each other than schools in Canada/US are. For example, you've got Melbourne, Sydney, UQ, Flinders.. all of which are quite different in one way or another from a curriculum perspective.

I'm not trying to troll here or anything - I'm just a little taken aback when you suggest that the level of academic organization/content is the same regardless of where you are! It really doesn't seem to be so..

And yes, we all need to know everything in the end - it's just that at some schools, the information is more readily available and at others, well, you have to teach yourself.

That's a legitimate question!

Australian schools are all equal in standard. It is very different to the US system.

This is because of the level of control that the AMC has over them.

We get AMC people come and inspect the school, its facilities, its curriculum, its teaching and its future direction, very frequently. The school must receive accreditation from the AMC in terms of its curriculum plan years in advance, and the AMC run through it with a fine tooth comb to ensure the cirriculum is to the correct standard. It also assesses the school's end-of-degree assessments and OSCEs to make sure students are being assessed on the same or similar standards when they are finishing their degree.

I can't provide a link unfortunately because I haven't done any internet research on it, I only know because of experience, I've seen the assessment process and seen how nervous the staff get while it happens!

I'll agree with you in the point that all schools are different, but only in the perspective of curriculum structure. Standard and levels of knowledge reach a common end point.

There are pros and cons to Aussie schools in terms of content only in the context of some of the extra focuses that some schools have. E.g. James Cook University likes to offer electives and additional material in tropical medicine; Wollongong University offers a rural focus, Newcastle University tends to be very GP-oritented, especially in the early years. Also, the structure of the schools' teaching format (CBL, PLB, didactic, self-directed, whatever) will provide personal pros and cons in terms of how easily you learn in different formats, but again, in order to pass, you have to get to that standard that the AMC dictates.

So Australian schools are all exceptional standard because if they drop below, the AMC snatches accreditation away from them.

Hope that helps or clarifies.

 

[Hayden2102]

Did a quick bit of research:

http://www.amc.org.au/forms/AccredGuidelines.pdf That is a pdf outlining the actual guidelines
This is an overview of the process: http://www.amc.org.au/accredhistory.asp

And actually I shouldn't say that the US system has wide differentiation in the quality of the med schools, because where I heard that from was just anecdotal, on SDN somewhere. The only thing I know for sure is the Australian system, so the part about the US's standard is just opinion based on stories I've heard...

 

[johnnyb255]

Hey Hayden, I've seen you mention this a few times now.. What sources are you using to determine whether or not all Aussie schools teach the *same* thing in the end?

From what I've seen (being in an undergrad course and my partner in a grad course) there is a contrast between the two streams in teaching intensity which is understandable, but I think that every Australian med school produces the same quality Intern in the end because of the AMC guidelines they have to conform with, as Hayden2102 mentioned.

As a sidenote, I wouldn't be surprised if the AMC brought out a standardised MCQ exam for all final years in the near future- they already supply 50% of the Monash final year 'clinical knowledge' exam.

 

[johnnyb255]

Hardworking students can no doubt cope with the academic demands of medical school whether they're 17 or 21 years old, but in my opinion, it is pretty hard at 21 years of age to have the maturity that is required of a doctor. I'm 24 and in my 3rd year, but I still don't know how to react when patients unexpectedly cry on me.

Hopefully your next rotations will have some undergrads floating around as well so you can compare/contrast, probably the only way for you to confirm your doubts.

My bet is on an equal professional maturity (which is essentially learning how to play and sound 'doctor'). Personal 'maturity' is another question altogether, but that probably depends on the person more than age when your differing 21 and 25. A doctors room can be filled with sex and poo jokes, but does that change ones' ability to break bad news?