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Sep 16, 2017
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Howdy,

New to SDN hoping for reassurance/advice. I am applying to Emeregency Medicine right now and have hit my first medical school obstical, namely being "bottom third" of my home institutes EM rotation (which was a blindside given my great feedback). I have already submitted this SLOE to all the programs I applied to, but that was before I was given my actual grade.

My other stats:
Step 1- 241
Step 2- 267
Third year- honored/high passed everything.
Other EM rotations- seemed to have gone well.
Oh, also on top of all this my SVI was a 16 :(

Do I need to be worried about this SLOE? Has anyone been in this position and lived happily ever after? Is there anything I can do now? Thanks in advance for your help!
 

kb1900

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they would write that in a letter of rec???
 
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Sep 16, 2017
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I mean, if it's already submitted, there is nothing you can do
Thanks for your input. I am not sure I'm looking for advice on changing the letter submission since that can't be changed.

1/3 of all EM students will be ranked as being bottom, so I'm hoping to talk with others who were similarly ranked and lived to talk about it lol.

Appreciate your help!
 
OP
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Sep 16, 2017
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they would write that in a letter of rec???
All EM letters of recommendation rank students into top, middle, and bottom third. So, a third of all students are in my same position, yet I can't find much talk on the topic unfortunitly.
 

Osteoth

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Ouch, tough luck man. What did they say led to that ranking?
 

jw3600

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All EM letters of recommendation rank students into top, middle, and bottom third. So, a third of all students are in my same position, yet I can't find much talk on the topic unfortunitly.
No it's top 10%, top third, middle third, bottom third. So programs literally do not give bottom thirds unless you bang the PD's wife. This program may have ****ed you.
 

LostinLift

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No it's top 10%, top third, middle third, bottom third. So programs literally do not give bottom thirds unless you bang the PD's wife. This program may have ****ed you.
Not if they accurately distribute grades. Rotation I'm at now actually only honors 10% and they get top 10% sloe, then 45% get high pass 45% pass and they get broken down into top/middle/bottom with equal numbers.
 

zero0

everything i hug dies
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Gotta love when some random subjective bull**** blindsides and compromises someone's entire career. Yay medicine!

Might have to kiss the top tier places goodbye but you're obviously still good on paper.
 

jw3600

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Not if they accurately distribute grades. Rotation I'm at now actually only honors 10% and they get top 10% sloe, then 45% get high pass 45% pass and they get broken down into top/middle/bottom with equal numbers.
Most places don't do that. They just pick one of the 4 categories and then as a gentleman's move they don't do bottom third. Some people say no SLOE is better than bottom third SLOE.
 
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Sep 16, 2017
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No it's top 10%, top third, middle third, bottom third. So programs literally do not give bottom thirds unless you bang the PD's wife. This program may have ****ed you.
I think it depends on the program, mine most certainly assigns a lot of bottom thirds. In fact, I have yet to meet someone who wasn't considered bottom third from my home institute. It is very much a shame ☹
 
OP
M
Sep 16, 2017
23
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Gotta love when some random subjective bull**** blindsides and compromises someone's entire career. Yay medicine!

Might have to kiss the top tier places goodbye but you're obviously still good on paper.
Thanks for the input! I did not have my heart set on top tier so that's not so bad. Do you have an experience similar to this or know someone who does? I'm just not sure how much to be concerned about this affecting me when I'm otherwise pretty solid.
 
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Sep 16, 2017
23
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Ouch, tough luck man. What did they say led to that ranking?
They gave us a percentage grade for "clinical" evaluations, but it was not clear how they came up with those percentages. They then broke the students up into three categories based on these percentages. So I'm not sure about what factors were involved, but one third of us got ranked low.
 

zero0

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Thanks for the input! I did not have my heart set on top tier so that's not so bad. Do you have an experience similar to this or know someone who does? I'm just not sure how much to be concerned about this affecting me when I'm otherwise pretty solid.
I can't think of anyone off the top of my head who went through the match with a bad SLOE. My interest in EM was short-lived so I probably won't be able to tell you much that you don't already know. EM is pretty anal about SLOEs. How much a bad one can hurt you is anyone's guess but it will hurt. Do you have another audition lined up? Maybe a good one could offset the damage.
 
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Sep 16, 2017
23
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I can't think of anyone off the top of my head who went through the match with a bad SLOE. My interest in EM was short-lived so I probably won't be able to tell you much that you don't already know. EM is pretty anal about SLOEs. How much a bad one can hurt you is anyone's guess but it will hurt. Do you have another audition lined up? Maybe a good one could offset the damage.
Yes, I did complete another rotation with great reviews. Also, this SLOE doesn't appear to have anything bad to say about me if they based it on my evaluations. Just that I was in the group of about 40 people they considered "bottom third" of their students.
 

jw3600

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There's been a bunch of research showing "grade creep" in the SLOEs.

When they first came around the distributions was relatively even and in line with actual percentages. Now it is pretty badly skewed
I became pretty disillusioned with SLOEs. It's pretty much as random and subjective as third year grades.
 
Sep 13, 2017
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Howdy,

New to SDN hoping for reassurance/advice. I am applying to Emeregency Medicine right now and have hit my first medical school obstical, namely being "bottom third" of my home institutes EM rotation (which was a blindside given my great feedback). I have already submitted this SLOE to all the programs I applied to, but that was before I was given my actual grade.

My other stats:
Step 1- 241
Step 2- 267
Third year- honored/high passed everything.
Other EM rotations- seemed to have gone well.
Oh, also on top of all this my SVI was a 16 :(

Do I need to be worried about this SLOE? Has anyone been in this position and lived happily ever after? Is there anything I can do now? Thanks in advance for your help!
Bruh, are you kidding?? Those are GREAT scores. You'll have no problem matching into EM. Don't even worry about it!
 

Stagg737

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Jul 2, 2013
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Some of the guys that are actually EM docs like @Tenk can probably answer these questions better than any med students or non-EM people could. May want to ask in the EM sub-forums.
 
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Tenk

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Jan 5, 2007
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Yeah that sucks but nothing you can do about it. I would be more suspicious if you didn't have a SLOE from your home program. Stats seem great. Any other red flags? We're still super early in the season so I would highly recommend increasing your net in terms of programs you are applying to. How many programs are you currently applying to and what state are you applying from. You can PM me if you don't want to put too much public info out here as there are PDs on this site and your scores are pretty memorable. All in all you just need to work extra hard in residency season, cast a big net and give it your best. Sorry that happened. Subjective crap is the worst and the bane of medical education imo.
 
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