Braces at Coast Dental $1700

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The fine print says that the minimum monthly payment of $71 for metal braces for a 24 month case valued at $2,959 is based on Care Credit qualification for a 60 month payment plan at 14.9% APR. Two things to note: the applicant must be credit-worthy for Care Credit to accept them, and I am sure that the patient will be thrilled to keep making payments up to year 5 after their braces were taken off 3 years ago. They may as well make payment plans at $25/month for over 10 years, that's where the profession is headed!
 
i can't even get a remodel in my kitchen for that price.... or a new drive way...
 
I need braces myself, and I would kill for something this cheap around me :/
 
I would bet that they tack on additional costs that are not initially shown in the ad. Something like $250 for "records fee", $350 for retainers, etc. The total cost of treatment is probably lower than a lot of places, but I do think it's a little bit of "bait and switch" tactics to advertise a fee like that. It's never all-inclusive.
 
jda02624 said:
I would bet that they tack on additional costs that are not initially shown in the ad. Something like $250 for "records fee", $350 for retainers, etc. The total cost of treatment is probably lower than a lot of places, but I do think it's a little bit of "bait and switch" tactics to advertise a fee like that. It's never all-inclusive.
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Or could just be the supply and demand situation right now for ortho.
 
Shunwei said:
Or could just be the supply and demand situation right now for ortho.
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Yeah, I looked at some of the Orthodontists on there are a couple of them are about 70. I wonder if they just got sick of managing a practice or if the market just dried up in their area.
 
Silent Cool said:
Yeah, I looked at some of the Orthodontists on there are a couple of them are about 70. I wonder if they just got sick of managing a practice or if the market just dried up in their area.
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Could be both. When you get that old as an orthodontist, your referring GPs either retire or die out and so will your practice. Fortunately, orthodontics is not that physically demanding so you could still point your fingers to RDAs at a chain.
 
ortho lurker said:
Could be both. When you get that old as an orthodontist, your referring GPs either retire or die out and so will your practice. Fortunately, orthodontics is not that physically demanding so you could still point your fingers to RDAs at a chain.
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Do orthodontists rely on referrals all that much? When I got braces, I just looked up websites of all the orthos in the area and also looked at their reviews on Yelp. I didn't even ask my dentist ::shrugs::
 
Silent Cool said:
Do orthodontists rely on referrals all that much? When I got braces, I just looked up websites of all the orthos in the area and also looked at their reviews on Yelp. I didn't even ask my dentist ::shrugs::
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Put it this way, an old geezer orthodontist probably wouldn't know what yelp is. But to answer your question, there will always be a need for private practice orthodontists to handle the tough cases because GPs and chains wouldn't want to touch them and GPs may rely on an orthodontist to do multi-disciplinary cases. However, you would have to separate yourself from other orthos based on reputation which is becoming increasingly difficult.
 
ortho lurker said:
Put it this way, an old geezer orthodontist probably wouldn't know what yelp is. But to answer your question, there will always be a need for private practice orthodontists to handle the tough cases because GPs and chains wouldn't want to touch them and GPs may rely on an orthodontist to do multi-disciplinary cases. However, you would have to separate yourself from other orthos based on reputation which is becoming increasingly difficult.
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OL,
If you had to guess, what would you say Coast is paying its full-time Orthos?
 
Silent Cool said:
OL,
If you had to guess, what would you say Coast is paying its full-time Orthos?
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Full-time and orthos don't exist in the same sentence anymore, but California orthodontic associates typically make between $1,000 - $1,500 per day and you would be lucky to get 10-14 days per month at the same chain in the same county. I don't know the salary ranges in other states.
 
Does that include any benefits, or is that just a straight check?
 
Silent Cool said:
Does that include any benefits, or is that just a straight check?
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Usually just a straight check. I think Western Dental is the only one that pays W-2 employee status which makes a big difference because they cover half of the fica taxes. I believe all the other chains are 1099 independent contractors which means you would pay 100% of the self-employment tax up to the first $113,700 gross income for the year 2013.
 
ortho lurker said:
Usually just a straight check. I think Western Dental is the only one that pays W-2 employee status which makes a big difference because they cover half of the fica taxes. I believe all the other chains are 1099 independent contractors which means you would pay 100% of the self-employment tax up to the first $113,700 gross income for the year 2013.
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Damn, so in that case you would have to cover health insurance, malpractice, retirement, disability--basically everything you would as a practice owner but without the benefits of owning a practice and the higher income to boot. In that situation, how much of the above costs are tax deductible?

OL, I take it that you are in CA currently. Is this (corporate model) where you see ortho and dentistry headed long-term? As student loans rise to inane levels, I see this model of dental care exploding in major metro areas. I have lived in several metro areas on both coasts and these chains are everywhere in those areas. What would be your personal limit for total debt at the end of ortho training? I know of students coming out with ~750K of loans currently.

Thanks again for your input
😎
 
Silent Cool said:
Damn, so in that case you would have to cover health insurance, malpractice, retirement, disability--basically everything you would as a practice owner but without the benefits of owning a practice and the higher income to boot. In that situation, how much of the above costs are tax deductible?

OL, I take it that you are in CA currently. Is this (corporate model) where you see ortho and dentistry headed long-term? As student loans rise to inane levels, I see this model of dental care exploding in major metro areas. I have lived in several metro areas on both coasts and these chains are everywhere in those areas. What would be your personal limit for total debt at the end of ortho training? I know of students coming out with ~750K of loans currently.

Thanks again for your input
😎
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You could just about do anything as a travelling independent contractor that you can do as a business owner, such as forming your own S-corp and paying yourself a salary and deducting automobile expenses, etc. There is no guarantee that being a business owner will make you more $, and there is the risk that you could lose $, something that an associate has no liability to worry about. I see the future of dentistry as combining with corporate medicine in these huge clinics thanks to Obamacare. I don't know what level of student debt is survivable, but it will only deter new grads from starting their own practices and will only feed the corporate model. I don't think medicine is sitting very well right now unless you specialize, just look up "Virginia Democrat calls for law to require all doctors to treat medicaid and medicare patients" from 1 day ago. 🙂 You know that if this becomes true then dentistry will be sure to follow.
 
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ortho lurker said:
You could just about do anything as a travelling independent contractor that you can do as a business owner, such as forming your own S-corp and paying yourself a salary and deducting automobile expenses, etc. There is no guarantee that being a business owner will make you more $, and there is the risk that you could lose $, something that an associate has no liability to worry about. I see the future of dentistry as combining with corporate medicine in these huge clinics thanks to Obamacare. I don't know what level of student debt is survivable, but it will only deter new grads from starting their own practices and will only feed the corporate model. I don't think medicine is sitting very well right now unless you specialize, just look up "Virginia Democrat calls for law to require all doctors to treat medicaid and medicare patients" from 1 day ago. 🙂 You know that if this becomes true then dentistry will be sure to follow.
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Maybe you need one of these:
http://www.brightnow.com/ortho/build-your-braces

"Build your braces!"
 
ortho lurker said:
I don't think medicine is sitting very well right now unless you specialize, just look up "Virginia Democrat calls for law to require all doctors to treat medicaid and medicare patients" from 1 day ago. 🙂 You know that if this becomes true then dentistry will be sure to follow.
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I just wonder how long this sort of stuff can continue. I never thought I would think this; but, I would prefer an all-out civil war - libertarian vs statist ideology- rather than the oppression that is to come if we continue in the direction we're headed towards.

It would not even have to result in complete annihilation... maybe just a division of the country such that places like CA in the Peoples Republic of America don't effect people in a place like Tx.

Once profit is removed as motivation only things like the the Gulag will keep the machine running...

stalin_gulag.jpg
 
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yappy said:
I would prefer an all-out civil war - libertarian vs statist ideology- rather than the oppression that is to come if we continue in the direction we're headed towards.

It would not even have to result in complete annihilation... maybe just a division of the country such that places like CA in the Peoples Republic of America don't effect people in a place like Tx.
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Never going to happen. People won't even vote for Libertarians, let alone fight for them. I think the best thing we can do is vote with our feet. I love CA, but I'm not going to pay their taxes to support their nanny-state or in NY either.
 
Tooth said:
Never going to happen. People won't even vote for Libertarians, let alone fight for them. I think the best thing we can do is vote with our feet. I love CA, but I'm not going to pay their taxes to support their nanny-state or in NY either.
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the best way to respond to this kind of situation, in my opinion, is to vote with your feet, which is what i did . you can't expect the politicians to do things for you or wait for things to change when you really have no control over it. fortunately there are still places in the country where excessive socialism or welfare is taking place. i like to help people and respect some degree of societal assistance but i do not tolerate governments that want to take a disproportionate amount of my hard-earned cash just to help the homeless and support their bankrupt financial system.
 
Shunwei said:
the best way to respond to this kind of situation, in my opinion, is to vote with your feet, which is what i did . you can't expect the politicians to do things for you or wait for things to change when you really have no control over it. fortunately there are still places in the country where excessive socialism or welfare is taking place. i like to help people and respect some degree of societal assistance but i do not tolerate governments that want to take a disproportionate amount of my hard-earned cash just to help the homeless and support their bankrupt financial system.
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Texas is going to turn blue very soon. Colorado, a once solidly red state became blue in a heartbeat. Also, Lots of libs moving from CA and NY into Texas. Booming minority population (which for some odd reason votes for Democrats- the party of the KKK, the party that was against efforts to repeal slavery, the party that endorsed racist Jim Crow laws) is another plus for libs. Republicans have got to stop with this dumb social conservatism. Terry McAullife a disgustingly and blatantly corrupt Dem was able to take conservative Virginia governorship because the Republicans had too hard social positions.

Sadly though, most americans (particularly of my generation) no longer really want/believe in American values. They want the top-down European nanny state, which has absolutely crumbled (read Greece). The only reason I think America will fare better than Europe is because America will always attract the best talent. This best talent, in addition to the increasingly slimming minority of people who already live and work in America, will be taxed heavily to please the mob. Amazing to me that so many people seriously think that Democrats care about the poor. Democrats are definetley the party of the '1%'.
 
lwen5 said:
Texas is going to turn blue very soon. Colorado, a once solidly red state became blue in a heartbeat. Also, Lots of libs moving from CA and NY into Texas. Booming minority population (which for some odd reason votes for Democrats- the party of the KKK, the party that was against efforts to repeal slavery, the party that endorsed racist Jim Crow laws) is another plus for libs. Republicans have got to stop with this dumb social conservatism. Terry McAullife a disgustingly and blatantly corrupt Dem was able to take conservative Virginia governorship because the Republicans had too hard social positions.

Sadly though, most americans (particularly of my generation) no longer really want/believe in American values. They want the top-down European nanny state, which has absolutely crumbled (read Greece). The only reason I think America will fare better than Europe is because America will always attract the best talent. This best talent, in addition to the increasingly slimming minority of people who already live and work in America, will be taxed heavily to please the mob. Amazing to me that so many people seriously think that Democrats care about the poor. Democrats are definetley the party of the '1%'.
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Perhaps the country will turn blue eventually as a whole, but I think there is still a window of time before that happens to make a decent living for now. CA is definitely in the extreme and I would not touch that place . . . . I work too hard for my money to turn over so much of it to support the homeless, illegal immigrants, or just plain lazy folks. The sad thing is that liberals will always be more popular to the mob because they advocate free stuff. But little do people understand that there really is no freebies in the long run, in the end something always gets traded for the handouts. In my book all politicans are not to be trusted.
 
Ok I dont know how we got on the topic of politics, but while we are here. My two cents.

Democrats get the minority and poor vote. They also get the government workers and union voters. They also get the women voters. Why???

Well they are for big government. So If I was employed by the government I would want it too work and get larger. So lets vote for the Dem. Screw the limited governement. Wow so many problems with big government, its sad. Look at Obamacare. Disaster. Post office, Medicare, SS. I can keep going but I will stop. Nuff said. Oh and by the way my plan was cancelled and I have to pay more for my new plan. Thanks.

The minority and poor get the free stuff, food stamps, Obama phones, housing, tax credits for babies, unemployment, etc... So why vote Republican if they are going to make it difficult to cheat the system or make someone responsible to get a job. I like sitting on my couch playing X-box collecting unemployment. I like selling my food stamps for drug money or cigs and etoh. I know some people need them but there is a lot of abuse and waste. And under Obama the amount of people receiving these goodies have skyrocketed.

You can eventually tax so much until all my money is taken. I am already over 50% so how much more do you want? How about you put more effort into eliminating waste and fraud and reducing spending. But there in lies the problem. You cant keep those groups of voters if you do so.
 
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so tuition is skyrocketing, fees are going lower, and there is still a thread with applicants hoping to get into ortho?????????
 
Tooth said:
It's about quality of life. There are other ways to make money. Once you have enough, you just want to do what you love.
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Yup, ortho is one of the very few jobs that allow you to have both a decent income and a very low stress lifestyle. A lot of the associate GPs, who work at the same chain with me, have often asked me why I always look relaxed and smile all a time even when waiting room is packed with the ortho patients. You can pretty much charge your patients any fee and are still happy with your job. Spending $1-200k and 2-3 extra years for ortho residency is totally worth it.
 
Tooth said:
If push comes to shove, we can always keep voting with our feet right out of the country.
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But where could you go where you would be more free than the US even if we "turned [more] blue". The US is the worlds last island of freedom - it's where we'll have to make our stand - running to Europe will not achieve anything or improve our quality of life.
 
yappy said:
But where could you go where you would be more free than the US even if we "turned [more] blue". The US is the worlds last island of freedom - it's where we'll have to make our stand - running to Europe will not achieve anything or improve our quality of life.
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Today it's still the best. I hope it stays the best. I think it will stay the best but I get pretty upset sometimes with the socialist movement and progressives here. I've eyed New Zealand and Australia in the past. They're relatively similar, western cultures. They've got their socialism problems too though. It would have to get pretty oppressive to justify moving out of the country. But you never know.
 
yappy said:
But where could you go where you would be more free than the US even if we "turned [more] blue". The US is the worlds last island of freedom - it's where we'll have to make our stand - running to Europe will not achieve anything or improve our quality of life.
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Absolutely. There is a lot of corruption in a lot of countries, even these rapidly developing ones which you often hear touted in the media. Religious extremism is also quickly enveloping Asia and even places in Europe. I would think Canada, New Zealand, and Australia are great places. Google "Heritage Foundation economic freedom index" to see which countries are good.
 
IRS.jpg
yappy said:
But where could you go where you would be more free than the US even if we "turned [more] blue". The US is the worlds last island of freedom - it's where we'll have to make our stand - running to Europe will not achieve anything or improve our quality of life.
Click to expand...
 
lwen5 said:
Absolutely. There is a lot of corruption in a lot of countries, even these rapidly developing ones which you often hear touted in the media. Religious extremism is also quickly enveloping Asia and even places in Europe. I would think Canada, New Zealand, and Australia are great places. Google "Heritage Foundation economic freedom index" to see which countries are good.
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lwen5 said:
Absolutely. There is a lot of corruption in a lot of countries, even these rapidly developing ones which you often hear touted in the media. Religious extremism is also quickly enveloping Asia and even places in Europe. I would think Canada, New Zealand, and Australia are great places. Google "Heritage Foundation economic freedom index" to see which countries are good.
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I have indeed been thinking of Australia and New Zealand. English-speaking, people are friendly, cost of living decent, beautiful scenery . . . . I may indeed retire there eventually. There is no doubt that the U.S. Is slowly but surely heading down the cesspool. Unfortunately there really isn't much any of us can really do about it.
 
Shunwei said:
I have indeed been thinking of Australia and New Zealand. English-speaking, people are friendly, cost of living decent, beautiful scenery . . . . I may indeed retire there eventually. There is no doubt that the U.S. Is slowly but surely heading down the cesspool. Unfortunately there really isn't much any of us can really do about it.
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Careful about Australia. The costs of living are actually much higher than in America, even for things like food.
 
Shunwei said:
I have indeed been thinking of Australia and New Zealand. English-speaking, people are friendly, cost of living decent, beautiful scenery . . . . I may indeed retire there eventually. There is no doubt that the U.S. Is slowly but surely heading down the cesspool. Unfortunately there really isn't much any of us can really do about it.
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You can support Rand Paul. He's our last hope....
 
Silent Cool said:
You can support Rand Paul. He's our last hope....
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Rand Paul is getting hit by plagiarism charges left and right. I think he is a goner for 2016. Maybe in 10 more years he can give it a second look though. I wish Rick Perry wasn't such a bible thumper. He has a pretty impressive economic record and could've made a serious contender.
 
You guys are dreaming, it will be Hillary in 2016 and there is nothing that we can do about it!!!
 
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