Bronx Lebanon Hospital vs Wyckoff Heights GPR

[oliviad]

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[kiddentist2013]

Bronx Leb is a Level 1 trauma heard very good things abt it , don't know much abt Wyckoff

 

[vicsin]

I don't know anything about Bronx Lebanon but I did interview at Wyckoff and I can tell you what I learned there.
-They do a lot of OS and molar endo according to current and past residents
-Lots of kids go there so good pedo experience and kids <21 are covered for endo so residents get to do a lot of those.
-lots of medically compromised patients and special needs- you even get to do dental work in the OR
-pretty weak in fixed experience but you will do a few crowns (its a medicaid population so similar to most hospitals)
-Residents didn't seem very happy because the hours are long. They see tons of patients and it can be really stressful. However, I heard they got rid of the night clinic so that may not be an issue anymore. It seems like a solid program that will prepare you. Its not a popular one because they didn't always have a good rep. Old director was a nightmare but the current director was super nice.
The area is not bad either...its 10 min from Williamsburg which is trendy and fun area but expensive to live in. The hospital is just a minute from the stop on L train so safety is not really an issue. Hope that helps. This is all based on just visiting and talking to residents so it would be better for you to get someone's opinion who actualy goes there.

 

[oliviad]

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[setdoc7]

I don't know anything about Bronx Lebanon but I did interview at Wyckoff and I can tell you what I learned there.
-They do a lot of OS and molar endo according to current and past residents
-Lots of kids go there so good pedo experience and kids <21 are covered for endo so residents get to do a lot of those.
-lots of medically compromised patients and special needs- you even get to do dental work in the OR
-pretty weak in fixed experience but you will do a few crowns (its a medicaid population so similar to most hospitals)
-Residents didn't seem very happy because the hours are long. They see tons of patients and it can be really stressful. However, I heard they got rid of the night clinic so that may not be an issue anymore. It seems like a solid program that will prepare you. Its not a popular one because they didn't always have a good rep. Old director was a nightmare but the current director was super nice.
The area is not bad either...its 10 min from Williamsburg which is trendy and fun area but expensive to live in. The hospital is just a minute from the stop on L train so safety is not really an issue. Hope that helps. This is all based on just visiting and talking to residents so it would be better for you to get someone's opinion who actualy goes there.

Wyckoff is in Brownsville, which is not a particularly safe area, although I will concede as a native New Yorker that anything can happen anywhere.
Bronx Leb is not Level 1, to my knowledge, although it is a 911 receiving center. The dental program there is long established, and the chairman is well known and respected in the dental community.

 

[vicsin]

Brownsville is south of Wyckoff hospital. That's where brookdale is. Wyckoff is on the border of bushwick and queens. It's not a great area at all but it's not that bad. Definitely not as bad as Brownsville

 

[setdoc7]

Brookdale is in East New York. You know, near the Pink Houses and Starrett City. I am a native Brooklynite.

 

[beanary23]

Bronx Leb is a Level 1 trauma heard very good things abt it , don't know much abt Wyckoff

reviewed Wyckoffs write up and Jamaica Hospital is very similar, however the hours are not as long. You should visit or facetime each one so you can see for yourself

 

[LatexGloves12]

Hi. Did my GPR at Wyckoff.
I'll give you the tl;dr version first: stay far, far away from this GPR. The attendings (people in charge) have created a terrible work environment and the residents are overworked and unhappy. Read on for more details. It's comprehensive, so apologies for all the text.

As far as what kind of experience you will gain in the dental clinic, that is the exact same experience you would get at any other GPR in New York which deals with Medicaid patients.
The insurance coverage is same, thus the procedures will be the same. (This means endo/crowns on molars very rarely. Most of what you'll be doing is pulpotomies/extractions, SRP and fillings, and removable.)
So this factor can be eliminated from the equation. That being said, other programs do have distinct advantages. For example, if there is an OS program at your hospital, like Lincoln in the Bronx, you will be restoring a ton of implants.
Note: endodontist only comes Wed mornings, and OS only comes Tuesday and Thursdays. Prosthodontist is there for Wednesday. No orthodontist, no periodontist.

How about the rotations? Those are standard across the board as well, as defined by CODA (http://www.ada.org/~/media/CODA/Files/2017_gpr.pdf?la=en)
However, at Wyckoff they have utilized these requirements as opportunities to make their residents their slaves for a month at a time. The anesthesia rotation consists of waking up every day for a month for 6:30am attendance for surgeries that never begin before 9am. Same for the special needs rotation, and if the surgery begins at 5pm, you have to scrub in and stay till 9pm, and then back for 6am the next day. Sometimes you don't even scrub in, you just circulate in the OR and mix IRM for 3 hours. Not to mention the mountain of paperwork which is assigned to a dental resident for that rotation, frequently keeping you in clinic until 9pm or later. This is administrative paperwork which could be accomplished by anyone who knows how to write English, yet is thrust upon a dental resident just because they can.

The peds rotation consists of going to an off-site clinic to look into the mouth of newborns and referring them to the dental clinic for comprehensive exams. Repeat for 30 patients a day, for a week at a time, twice or three times. (There is lots of peds experience in regular clinic. However, wyckoff was recently approved for Peds Residency program - with 2 residents - so I'm not sure what impact that will have on the peds experience.)
Residents are frequently pulled from rotation to help out in the devastatingly overwhelmed dental clinic (more on that in a bit).

The worst part about rotations is that after you've finished an entire day, and you're exhausted from being there at 6:15 am, you still have to come back to clinic and be dismissed from dental clinic. But they won't dismiss you, they will have you see patients bc the clinic is so backed up they need all the help they can get. This means you'll be at the hospital from 6:15am until 8pm.

Ok, so what about actual clinic. What's that like? First off, you are assigned about 15 patients per day. You need to prepare a "huddle" for these patients to present to your attending each morning. This means going into their poorly organized digital charts, spanning two different software programs and finding out their medical history and dental history. (This process will become more efficient as more and more patients only have entries in the one software.) This requires the resident to either prepare in advance, or typically everyone just comes in an hour early at 8am. If there's a lecture (two to five times a month), that means coming in at 7am.
How many of these patients do you actually end up seeing? Maybe one or two. The clinic gets so overrun, you'll just be assigned to the next open room and see whichever patient happens to be sitting in the chair. That means you'll have to spend the first 5 minutes of the appointment looking up their medical history and dental history and x-rays.
The clinic has a 50% no show rate, so a lot of double booking occurs (this is decreasing though, but is still happening enough to cause problems). This means the clinic often gets completely overwhelmed and way too many patients for the number of residents available. (They accept walk-in emergencies everyday, and usually only one resident covering that.) Officially the clinic ends at 5, but you're seeing patients until 7pm every day. Don't be surprised if you're sitting a patient down at 6:45pm to start a pulpotomy. Then you have to go and write your notes, since there isn't time during the day, so you don't get home until around 8pm or later. Yea, 12 hour days. Every day. Funny, bc the contract is only for 7 hours a day. Oh yea, that one hour lunch? You'll never get it. It's only a half hour, after all the morning patients have been seen (so working straight until 2pm sometimes), and your attending will give you attitude if you're a minute late.
There are not nearly enough dental assistants and attendings. The dental assistants are completely overworked and stressed out, as they are needed for every xray and to translate for all the spanish speaking patients (which is 75% of them). There is one attending covering 5 residents on some days, so patients get backed up. So when they sit down in your chair, they have been in the waiting room for several hours already and are completely irate.

What about the terrible working environment I mentioned? Well, as I just said, it's the attitude of the attendings. They constantly talk condescendingly to you, have no respect for your time and consider you their slave. I actually overheard two of them talking and referring to us as their "minions." While dental questions are encouraged, questions regarding administrative or quality improvement issues are frequently met with disdain or just ignored. You are not allowed to even carry your cellphone on you while in the clinic! (This might seem trivial, but it affects morale. A lot.) There is absolutely no trust between the residents and the attendings - it is very much the fifth year of dental school. This applies to having to get caries checks and preps checks, and also to constantly being tacitly accused of being lazy or slacking off, or trying to get away with something. If an attending sees you not with a pt, they will ask you what you're doing, which is their way of asking "why aren't you seeing a pt right now??"

What's on-call schedule like? So that depends on the number of residents are in the program for that year. But there's a resident on call every day for the whole year, so if you have about 15 residents, that means twice a month on-call. The most recent on-call schedule was created without consulting the residents first, and the dental program is extremely hesitant to accommodate any switches to the schedule. There is even an entire month which you are not allowed to take off, which is determined in advance. So you better hope you have nothing planned for that month! The dental department has a reputation throughout the hospital for overworking and disrespecting their residents.

Honestly, I feel like I'm not even doing justice to the problems of this program. Like I started off this crazy long post, most of the residents are extremely unhappy there. That's all you really need to know. (There may be one or two that are satisfied - hopefully they will post a response on this thread so you get both sides of the coin.) Make sure to speak to the residents if you apply there (although I highly recommend you don't even apply). My recommendation: Brooklyn Hospital

Advantage of the program: it has a little higher salary than most programs. It all goes to taxes anyway. But you're working way more hours than other programs.

 

[setdoc7]

Hi. Did my GPR at Wyckoff.
I'll give you the tl;dr version first: stay far, far away from this GPR. The attendings (people in charge) have created a terrible work environment and the residents are overworked and unhappy. Read on for more details. It's comprehensive, so apologies for all the text.

As far as what kind of experience you will gain in the dental clinic, that is the exact same experience you would get at any other GPR in New York which deals with Medicaid patients.
The insurance coverage is same, thus the procedures will be the same. (This means endo/crowns on molars very rarely. Most of what you'll be doing is pulpotomies/extractions, SRP and fillings, and removable.)
So this factor can be eliminated from the equation. That being said, other programs do have distinct advantages. For example, if there is an OS program at your hospital, like Lincoln in the Bronx, you will be restoring a ton of implants.
Note: endodontist only comes Wed mornings, and OS only comes Tuesday and Thursdays. Prosthodontist is there for Wednesday. No orthodontist, no periodontist.

How about the rotations? Those are standard across the board as well, as defined by CODA (http://www.ada.org/~/media/CODA/Files/2017_gpr.pdf?la=en)
However, at Wyckoff they have utilized these requirements as opportunities to make their residents their slaves for a month at a time. The anesthesia rotation consists of waking up every day for a month for 6:30am attendance for surgeries that never begin before 9am. Same for the special needs rotation, and if the surgery begins at 5pm, you have to scrub in and stay till 9pm, and then back for 6am the next day. Sometimes you don't even scrub in, you just circulate in the OR and mix IRM for 3 hours. Not to mention the mountain of paperwork which is assigned to a dental resident for that rotation, frequently keeping you in clinic until 9pm or later. This is administrative paperwork which could be accomplished by anyone who knows how to write English, yet is thrust upon a dental resident just because they can.

The peds rotation consists of going to an off-site clinic to look into the mouth of newborns and referring them to the dental clinic for comprehensive exams. Repeat for 30 patients a day, for a week at a time, twice or three times. (There is lots of peds experience in regular clinic. However, wyckoff was recently approved for Peds Residency program - with 2 residents - so I'm not sure what impact that will have on the peds experience.)
Residents are frequently pulled from rotation to help out in the devastatingly overwhelmed dental clinic (more on that in a bit).

The worst part about rotations is that after you've finished an entire day, and you're exhausted from being there at 6:15 am, you still have to come back to clinic and be dismissed from dental clinic. But they won't dismiss you, they will have you see patients bc the clinic is so backed up they need all the help they can get. This means you'll be at the hospital from 6:15am until 8pm.

Ok, so what about actual clinic. What's that like? First off, you are assigned about 15 patients per day. You need to prepare a "huddle" for these patients to present to your attending each morning. This means going into their poorly organized digital charts, spanning two different software programs and finding out their medical history and dental history. (This process will become more efficient as more and more patients only have entries in the one software.) This requires the resident to either prepare in advance, or typically everyone just comes in an hour early at 8am. If there's a lecture (two to five times a month), that means coming in at 7am.
How many of these patients do you actually end up seeing? Maybe one or two. The clinic gets so overrun, you'll just be assigned to the next open room and see whichever patient happens to be sitting in the chair. That means you'll have to spend the first 5 minutes of the appointment looking up their medical history and dental history and x-rays.
The clinic has a 50% no show rate, so a lot of double booking occurs (this is decreasing though, but is still happening enough to cause problems). This means the clinic often gets completely overwhelmed and way too many patients for the number of residents available. (They accept walk-in emergencies everyday, and usually only one resident covering that.) Officially the clinic ends at 5, but you're seeing patients until 7pm every day. Don't be surprised if you're sitting a patient down at 6:45pm to start a pulpotomy. Then you have to go and write your notes, since there isn't time during the day, so you don't get home until around 8pm or later. Yea, 12 hour days. Every day. Funny, bc the contract is only for 7 hours a day. Oh yea, that one hour lunch? You'll never get it. It's only a half hour, after all the morning patients have been seen (so working straight until 2pm sometimes), and your attending will give you attitude if you're a minute late.
There are not nearly enough dental assistants and attendings. The dental assistants are completely overworked and stressed out, as they are needed for every xray and to translate for all the spanish speaking patients (which is 75% of them). There is one attending covering 5 residents on some days, so patients get backed up. So when they sit down in your chair, they have been in the waiting room for several hours already and are completely irate.

What about the terrible working environment I mentioned? Well, as I just said, it's the attitude of the attendings. They constantly talk condescendingly to you, have no respect for your time and consider you their slave. I actually overheard two of them talking and referring to us as their "minions." While dental questions are encouraged, questions regarding administrative or quality improvement issues are frequently met with disdain or just ignored. You are not allowed to even carry your cellphone on you while in the clinic! (This might seem trivial, but it affects morale. A lot.) There is absolutely no trust between the residents and the attendings - it is very much the fifth year of dental school. This applies to having to get caries checks and preps checks, and also to constantly being tacitly accused of being lazy or slacking off, or trying to get away with something. If an attending sees you not with a pt, they will ask you what you're doing, which is their way of asking "why aren't you seeing a pt right now??"

What's on-call schedule like? So that depends on the number of residents are in the program for that year. But there's a resident on call every day for the whole year, so if you have about 15 residents, that means twice a month on-call. The most recent on-call schedule was created without consulting the residents first, and the dental program is extremely hesitant to accommodate any switches to the schedule. There is even an entire month which you are not allowed to take off, which is determined in advance. So you better hope you have nothing planned for that month! The dental department has a reputation throughout the hospital for overworking and disrespecting their residents.

Honestly, I feel like I'm not even doing justice to the problems of this program. Like I started off this crazy long post, most of the residents are extremely unhappy there. That's all you really need to know. (There may be one or two that are satisfied - hopefully they will post a response on this thread so you get both sides of the coin.) Make sure to speak to the residents if you apply there (although I highly recommend you don't even apply). My recommendation: Brooklyn Hospital

Advantage of the program: it has a little higher salary than most programs. It all goes to taxes anyway. But you're working way more hours than other programs.

WOW!!! This is pretty crazy. I am not sure why things have to be run this way.

 

[The OMFS]

What about the terrible working environment I mentioned? Well, as I just said, it's the attitude of the attendings. They constantly talk condescendingly to you, have no respect for your time and consider you their slave. I actually overheard two of them talking and referring to us as their "minions." While dental questions are encouraged, questions regarding administrative or quality improvement issues are frequently met with disdain or just ignored. You are not allowed to even carry your cellphone on you while in the clinic! (This might seem trivial, but it affects morale. A lot.) There is absolutely no trust between the residents and the attendings - it is very much the fifth year of dental school. This applies to having to get caries checks and preps checks, and also to constantly being tacitly accused of being lazy or slacking off, or trying to get away with something. If an attending sees you not with a pt, they will ask you what you're doing, which is their way of asking "why aren't you seeing a pt right now??"

Honestly, I feel like I'm not even doing justice to the problems of this program. Like I started off this crazy long post, most of the residents are extremely unhappy there. That's all you really need to know. (There may be one or two that are satisfied - hopefully they will post a response on this thread so you get both sides of the coin.) Make sure to speak to the residents if you apply there (although I highly recommend you don't even apply). My recommendation: Brooklyn Hospital

Advantage of the program: it has a little higher salary than most programs. It all goes to taxes anyway. But you're working way more hours than other programs.

Sounds like a place ran by a bunch of bitter dentists who were unsuccessful in their outside practice.

 

[wbloo]

I did my GPR at Bronx Lebanon. This residency expects you to work. The year is split, so you are only on call 6 months of the year - but it is in house and aprox 10 times monthly. You get an amazing OMFS experience and the attendings give you autonomy. There are several locations so each site has its own personality.

 

[madyman79]

guys i am about to apply for GPR soon i live in philly what are good programs around in general ....i heard stuff from here and there ...i will appreciate your recommendations

 

[setdoc7]

Einstein is a very good program.

 

[Diezel69x]

Hi. Did my GPR at Wyckoff.
I'll give you the tl;dr version first: stay far, far away from this GPR. The attendings (people in charge) have created a terrible work environment and the residents are overworked and unhappy. Read on for more details. It's comprehensive, so apologies for all the text.

As far as what kind of experience you will gain in the dental clinic, that is the exact same experience you would get at any other GPR in New York which deals with Medicaid patients.
The insurance coverage is same, thus the procedures will be the same. (This means endo/crowns on molars very rarely. Most of what you'll be doing is pulpotomies/extractions, SRP and fillings, and removable.)
So this factor can be eliminated from the equation. That being said, other programs do have distinct advantages. For example, if there is an OS program at your hospital, like Lincoln in the Bronx, you will be restoring a ton of implants.
Note: endodontist only comes Wed mornings, and OS only comes Tuesday and Thursdays. Prosthodontist is there for Wednesday. No orthodontist, no periodontist.

How about the rotations? Those are standard across the board as well, as defined by CODA (http://www.ada.org/~/media/CODA/Files/2017_gpr.pdf?la=en)
However, at Wyckoff they have utilized these requirements as opportunities to make their residents their slaves for a month at a time. The anesthesia rotation consists of waking up every day for a month for 6:30am attendance for surgeries that never begin before 9am. Same for the special needs rotation, and if the surgery begins at 5pm, you have to scrub in and stay till 9pm, and then back for 6am the next day. Sometimes you don't even scrub in, you just circulate in the OR and mix IRM for 3 hours. Not to mention the mountain of paperwork which is assigned to a dental resident for that rotation, frequently keeping you in clinic until 9pm or later. This is administrative paperwork which could be accomplished by anyone who knows how to write English, yet is thrust upon a dental resident just because they can.

The peds rotation consists of going to an off-site clinic to look into the mouth of newborns and referring them to the dental clinic for comprehensive exams. Repeat for 30 patients a day, for a week at a time, twice or three times. (There is lots of peds experience in regular clinic. However, wyckoff was recently approved for Peds Residency program - with 2 residents - so I'm not sure what impact that will have on the peds experience.)
Residents are frequently pulled from rotation to help out in the devastatingly overwhelmed dental clinic (more on that in a bit).

The worst part about rotations is that after you've finished an entire day, and you're exhausted from being there at 6:15 am, you still have to come back to clinic and be dismissed from dental clinic. But they won't dismiss you, they will have you see patients bc the clinic is so backed up they need all the help they can get. This means you'll be at the hospital from 6:15am until 8pm.

Ok, so what about actual clinic. What's that like? First off, you are assigned about 15 patients per day. You need to prepare a "huddle" for these patients to present to your attending each morning. This means going into their poorly organized digital charts, spanning two different software programs and finding out their medical history and dental history. (This process will become more efficient as more and more patients only have entries in the one software.) This requires the resident to either prepare in advance, or typically everyone just comes in an hour early at 8am. If there's a lecture (two to five times a month), that means coming in at 7am.
How many of these patients do you actually end up seeing? Maybe one or two. The clinic gets so overrun, you'll just be assigned to the next open room and see whichever patient happens to be sitting in the chair. That means you'll have to spend the first 5 minutes of the appointment looking up their medical history and dental history and x-rays.
The clinic has a 50% no show rate, so a lot of double booking occurs (this is decreasing though, but is still happening enough to cause problems). This means the clinic often gets completely overwhelmed and way too many patients for the number of residents available. (They accept walk-in emergencies everyday, and usually only one resident covering that.) Officially the clinic ends at 5, but you're seeing patients until 7pm every day. Don't be surprised if you're sitting a patient down at 6:45pm to start a pulpotomy. Then you have to go and write your notes, since there isn't time during the day, so you don't get home until around 8pm or later. Yea, 12 hour days. Every day. Funny, bc the contract is only for 7 hours a day. Oh yea, that one hour lunch? You'll never get it. It's only a half hour, after all the morning patients have been seen (so working straight until 2pm sometimes), and your attending will give you attitude if you're a minute late.
There are not nearly enough dental assistants and attendings. The dental assistants are completely overworked and stressed out, as they are needed for every xray and to translate for all the spanish speaking patients (which is 75% of them). There is one attending covering 5 residents on some days, so patients get backed up. So when they sit down in your chair, they have been in the waiting room for several hours already and are completely irate.

What about the terrible working environment I mentioned? Well, as I just said, it's the attitude of the attendings. They constantly talk condescendingly to you, have no respect for your time and consider you their slave. I actually overheard two of them talking and referring to us as their "minions." While dental questions are encouraged, questions regarding administrative or quality improvement issues are frequently met with disdain or just ignored. You are not allowed to even carry your cellphone on you while in the clinic! (This might seem trivial, but it affects morale. A lot.) There is absolutely no trust between the residents and the attendings - it is very much the fifth year of dental school. This applies to having to get caries checks and preps checks, and also to constantly being tacitly accused of being lazy or slacking off, or trying to get away with something. If an attending sees you not with a pt, they will ask you what you're doing, which is their way of asking "why aren't you seeing a pt right now??"

What's on-call schedule like? So that depends on the number of residents are in the program for that year. But there's a resident on call every day for the whole year, so if you have about 15 residents, that means twice a month on-call. The most recent on-call schedule was created without consulting the residents first, and the dental program is extremely hesitant to accommodate any switches to the schedule. There is even an entire month which you are not allowed to take off, which is determined in advance. So you better hope you have nothing planned for that month! The dental department has a reputation throughout the hospital for overworking and disrespecting their residents.

Honestly, I feel like I'm not even doing justice to the problems of this program. Like I started off this crazy long post, most of the residents are extremely unhappy there. That's all you really need to know. (There may be one or two that are satisfied - hopefully they will post a response on this thread so you get both sides of the coin.) Make sure to speak to the residents if you apply there (although I highly recommend you don't even apply). My recommendation: Brooklyn Hospital

Advantage of the program: it has a little higher salary than most programs. It all goes to taxes anyway. But you're working way more hours than other programs.

Spot on description!!!! Probably the worst GPR.... (I have rotated/worked in ~ 6 GPR programs)