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Brown PLME or Duke Pre-Med?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Toddr31, Apr 21, 2002.

  1. Toddr31

    Toddr31 Junior Member

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    Hi,

    I'm trying to decide right now whether to enroll in Brown's PLME program or at Duke as a pre-med. The PLME program sounded great, although Brown's medical school doesn't seem to be that highly rated. I absolutely love Duke also, and their reputation in biology (my intended major) seems a lot stronger than Brown's. Is this true? Would it be stupid to throw away the chance to go to medical school without taking the MCAT? It seems like a lot of Brown med's residency matches are for internal medicine, which scares me because I'd like to specialize in either pediatric trauma or pediatric surgery. Would it benefit me more to go to Duke as an undergraduate and apply to top medical schools? Is it worth it? I live in VA, and even UVA med school ranked higher than Brown med (27 v 39). Thanks for the input!

    Todd
    [email protected]
     
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  3. Legend

    Legend Super Senior Member

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    Brown PLME and then apply out.
     
  4. ValleyGal

    ValleyGal Senior Member

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    I'm a duke undergrad now, so if you have any questions please let me know. I have loved Duke!!! However, it does depend on the type of person that you are, as you may not be me. If you come here and do the work, Duke will get you into medical school. However, it would have been nice to have been already accepted. I don't know what the other person was referring to about applying out, but if you are not going to Brown's medical school then that seems really stupid.

    Ok, here is my anaylzation of Duke for you. It is a REALLY good school, but the science classes are really hard. About 1/3 of the class starts out pre-med and they have to weed out people from there to get it down to about 250. But if you are on of those ultimately applying, you really don't have to worry about getting into medical school. Most of my friends have gotten into more than one school, and they are looking at attending the top schools. So don't think that you are dropping PLME and won't get into medical school.

    However, that being said, I would probably go to the PLME program knowing what I know now. The MCAT and application process is sooooooo stressful that I would have given just about anything to not have to do this. Duke is a viable option, but I would say to take the med school and run!!!!! Good luck!
     
  5. Legend

    Legend Super Senior Member

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    At Brown, a number of PLME students apply out to go to much better schools.
     
  6. lyle

    lyle Member

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    My advice is to go to the undergraduate institution where you think you will have the most incredible experience, both academically and socially. I have just finished applying and going through this horrible year of waiting and interviewing, and I do not wish that I had applied to those combo. programs out of high school. At all top schools, Brown and Duke included, almost ALL of your classes will be tought, not just the science classes. That's college. I will be graduating soon, but I will have my four years of college for the rest of my life. My college experience allowed me to begin carving out my career plans, mostly because of the location of my school (inner city) and the people I have had the opportunity to work with over the past few years. And I have changed so much during my college experience. So bottom line, I would not choose the school because of med. school. You may even change your mind at some point about your career plans. I don't know if you can lose with Brown and Duke undergrad. They are both excellent, diverse schools with incredible opportunities. And at both of those schools, almost all of the undergrads who complete their pre-med. requirements and apply do get into med. school. So you probably will not have a problem applying later. That's my 2 cents. Definitely let me know if you have any more questions. good luck making a decision.
     
  7. EuropiumCC

    EuropiumCC Junior Member

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    Hey, I'm a new SDNer and I actually had a few comments about this. I'm not too sure about how the Brown program works but if it's similar to the program I'm in then it would probably provide the same wealth of advantages and disadvantages. For one thing, Brown med school isn't stupendous but there's something to be said for acceptance straight out of high school. I know that it's a huge load off knowing that you already hold one acceptance. At least for me, I'm able to better accept less than stellar grades and I find myself less stressed then some of the other premeds at my school. On the otherhand though I do agree with what people are saying in this post already that if you go to Brown then you should have every intention of applying out to a better medical school. Brown is an awesome place to go to undergrad and like Duke the name will get you places. It would be a waste though to not try out of Brown. That said Duke is also a wonderful place to go. Some of the questions that you should be asking yourself right now include: how stressful do I want my undergrad experience to be? What type of environment do I think I'll prosper in? Remember that there is a reason why they let you into Brown PLME. You have every capability in the world to be a great doctor and you can make it to med school at whatever undergrad institution that you go to. If you want any more info email me.
     
  8. panda01

    panda01 Member

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    Out I high school I was accepted to both Brown (regular) and Duke and picked Brown over Duke. In the end it's just where you'll be happy for undergrad. If you go to Duke and work hard, it won't be a problem to get into medical school. If you do PLME and decide you hate Brown Med (which actually is a great school--US News rankings mean NOTHING but that's another thread) you can always apply out to Columbia, UW, etc. but most people don't. Why? I think because they fall in love with Brown--the place and the people and the philosophy.

    The undergrad experiences are going to be very different at both schools. Speaking from experience, Brown is much more liberal (although that's changing now), puts a higher stress on diversity in education (I was pre-med but took a lot of acting, creative writing, anthro, etc.), and I think is more of an intimate atmosphere really conducive to personal growth. If you're more into the basketball, school pride thing, I would say Duke is the better choice. Don't get me wrong, I painted my chest with my friends for the football games like the best of them, but it's more of a vibe I got at Duke. Plus the environments are very different--I spent many a weekend partying in NYC, since Providence is only 3 hrs from there and 1 from Boston. I just liked the NE better than Raleigh-Durham area. Plus Brown's campus is just as pretty as Duke's but much more centrally located, ie. a two minute walk down the hill and you're in the middle of downtown Providence, but up at Brown it's all trees and college kids running around.

    If you have any other questions about this, PM me--congrats and good luck!!!
     
  9. Legend

    Legend Super Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by panda01:
    <strong>Out I high school I was accepted to both Brown (regular) and Duke and picked Brown over Duke. In the end it's just where you'll be happy for undergrad. If you go to Duke and work hard, it won't be a problem to get into medical school. If you do PLME and decide you hate Brown Med (which actually is a great school--US News rankings mean NOTHING but that's another thread) you can always apply out to Columbia, UW, etc. but most people don't. Why? I think because they fall in love with Brown--the place and the people and the philosophy.

    The undergrad experiences are going to be very different at both schools. Speaking from experience, Brown is much more liberal (although that's changing now), puts a higher stress on diversity in education (I was pre-med but took a lot of acting, creative writing, anthro, etc.), and I think is more of an intimate atmosphere really conducive to personal growth. If you're more into the basketball, school pride thing, I would say Duke is the better choice. Don't get me wrong, I painted my chest with my friends for the football games like the best of them, but it's more of a vibe I got at Duke. Plus the environments are very different--I spent many a weekend partying in NYC, since Providence is only 3 hrs from there and 1 from Boston. I just liked the NE better than Raleigh-Durham area. Plus Brown's campus is just as pretty as Duke's but much more centrally located, ie. a two minute walk down the hill and you're in the middle of downtown Providence, but up at Brown it's all trees and college kids running around.

    If you have any other questions about this, PM me--congrats and good luck!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">hey, are you a senior?
     
  10. panda01

    panda01 Member

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    Hey Legi - no I graduated last year, I'm taking a year off and doing research in sunny N.M.
     
  11. dukee

    dukee Senior Member

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    hi. I graduated last year from Duke. I disagree very strongly with valleygirl that if you get through Duke well, you will get into medical school. Duke averages about 80% of the applicants who apply to med school get in at least one school. Not everybody from duke gets in. I did well at Duke (3.8 math major and chem major) and well on the mcat. I did not do well on my verbal. She can tell me probably this reason and that reason why I am an exception to not getting in, but I worked as hard as every single of my friends at Duke and I still have not gotton in anywhere. I have interviewed a couple of places (including Duke), but I have not gotton in yet. I am a CA resident. Dean Singer (our premedical dean does not like to deal with CA residents, because the dirty little secret is Duke does not fair well with CA residents). No school will give you a 100% guarantee that you will get in. The mcat is a test that however standard it is, it is more difficult for some people. My parents are immigrants and I have not had that much of an opporunity to learn english in a way as some other people. My advice to you is go to both schools for prospective weekend, see what school you will see yourself for four years, and forget the advice of silly strangers as myself. I am upset as you can see that I have worked very hard at Duke and all my friends quote the many schools they are accepted at, and why I am so different, espically since some of the students I taught at Duke. What if this happens to you because of one silly score on an exam you will be denied what you have worked very hard for during your four years at duke. There are many students who get into med school from and there are some easily as qualified that may not get in because of some other reason (grades, dean singer's letter, mcat, no real motivation). Duke is a good school but many students get into med school from far lesser prestiguous schools and do just as well. It seems Duke students and students from many other school think med school will give them a point here and there for going to Duke or somewhere else good, but you still have to do well and perfrom well on the mcat. Good luck...
     
  12. dukee

    dukee Senior Member

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    sorry for all the spelling mistakes, it is just I am so upset and disappointed that however much you do, it may not be good enough. Good luck.
     
  13. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member

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    I second the opinion that even if you are accepted to PLME and decide to attend another school for the pre-med experience, you are not guaranteed to do well enough elsewhere to get into med school. College is a different ballgame. Kids with 4.3 weighted GPA and 1550 on SAT can still screw up and not get into med school. Not everyone at Brown, Duke, Yale or Harvard can get into a med school at will.

    I would say go to Brown PLME.

    On the other hand, don't go to Brown and just think about applying out of the program 4 years later. Plenty of kids stick with PLME.
     
  14. Legend

    Legend Super Senior Member

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    Many PLME freshmen are faced with two different paths of their undergrad eduation.

    1)Should I study my ass off and apply out?

    2)Should I relax and take advantage of Brown's liberal curriculum and go to Brown med school?

    In my opinion, whatever choice they make, they have nothing to lose.
     
  15. TommyGunn04

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    I'm currently a senior at Brown. My experience at Brown has been really amazing. I love it here! I think it's a very unique place, but it's definitely not for everyone. I particularly like the extreme flexibility of our curriculum: we have NO core requirements, and we can take ANY class pass/fail! And being pre-med here is supposedly a LOT less stressful than at other schools.

    I'd be happy to answer any more specific questions about Brown, if you have any. Just send me a PM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
     
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  17. Legend

    Legend Super Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by TommyGunn04:
    <strong>I'm currently a senior at Brown. My experience at Brown has been really amazing. I love it here! I think it's a very unique place, but it's definitely not for everyone. I particularly like the extreme flexibility of our curriculum: we have NO core requirements, and we can take ANY class pass/fail! And being pre-med here is supposedly a LOT less stressful than at other schools.

    I'd be happy to answer any more specific questions about Brown, if you have any. Just send me a PM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">hey, tommy. I was more stressed because it was too flexible. It is so easy to lose track here. :)
    Since there was no core, I started my freshman year with 5 science courses in one semester and I almost got academic warning. :D
     
  18. TommyGunn04

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    <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">hey, tommy. I was more stressed because it was too flexible. It is so easy to lose track here. :)
    Since there was no core, I started my freshman year with 5 science courses in one semester and I almost got academic warning. :D </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your advisor let you take FIVE science classes in ONE SEMESTER???!!! You must've had a clueless advisor! <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> I guess this demonstrates just how flexible our curriculum is! And along with this flexibility comes much responsibility. Hey Legi, how was your spring weekend? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
     
  19. Legend

    Legend Super Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by TommyGunn04:
    <strong><strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">hey, tommy. I was more stressed because it was too flexible. It is so easy to lose track here. :)
    Since there was no core, I started my freshman year with 5 science courses in one semester and I almost got academic warning. :D </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your advisor let you take FIVE science classes in ONE SEMESTER???!!! You must've had a clueless advisor! <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> I guess this demonstrates just how flexible our curriculum is! And along with this flexibility comes much responsibility. Hey Legi, how was your spring weekend? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My adviser was my CAP professor (calculus). You are right. It was very difficult to convince my adviser. Btw, I started with CH35 (orgo),BN102(neurobio),BI80(physio),MA18(calc),EN4(Engine). I regret it so much since I ended up getting only two grades that semester. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Brown is soooo flexible.
    My spring weekend was so great. I retook that MCAT without studying. :mad: But, that MCAT party was awesome !! :) I got soaked. The guy who was taking the test in front of me had brought champaign to the exam, and as soon as we were done, BANG ! Now I have freaking 5 more days left to finish my thesis and I haven't started. Yeah, Brown is too flexible. I love it...
     
  20. panda01

    panda01 Member

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    Legi and Tommy--I'm so upset I missed Binder this year. Glad to hear the partying on SW kept going after I left.

    While I totally agree that Brown is SO flexible I think the important part is being proactive about finding an advisor that knows what he's doing. My CAP advisor was in playwriting--needless to say I overloaded on courses and bombed my first Physio exam... though not quite as crazy as you Legi :)
     
  21. Legend

    Legend Super Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by panda01:
    <strong>Legi and Tommy--I'm so upset I missed Binder this year. Glad to hear the partying on SW kept going after I left.

    While I totally agree that Brown is SO flexible I think the important part is being proactive about finding an advisor that knows what he's doing. My CAP advisor was in playwriting--needless to say I overloaded on courses and bombed my first Physio exam... though not quite as crazy as you Legi :) </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My CAP adviser was actually so nice !! One of my favourite professors here at Brown. He even wrote a letter of recommendation for me.
     
  22. Toddr31

    Toddr31 Junior Member

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    I've really been thinking that I want to go to Duke, it's a lot closer to home and I think I could still do pretty well. But after reading this board, I'm getting scared about med school admissions, but I don't want to get stuck at Brown med necessarily... You're all saying I should do PLME?
     
  23. Legend

    Legend Super Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Toddr31:
    <strong>I've really been thinking that I want to go to Duke, it's a lot closer to home and I think I could still do pretty well. But after reading this board, I'm getting scared about med school admissions, but I don't want to get stuck at Brown med necessarily... You're all saying I should do PLME?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes.
     
  24. omores

    omores sleep deprived

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    No.

    Go where you think you'll be happy. Yes, a guaranteed entrance to medical school is a wonderful thing, and it will take some of the pressure off later on (but if you do decide to "apply out," there will still be plenty of pressure). But that's not worth spending four years at a college that doesn't fit.

    Not that I'm advocating Duke, either: for me, Brown would probably be a better fit. I'm just cautioning you not to make the decision out of fear.
     
  25. ValleyGal

    ValleyGal Senior Member

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    Do not make your decision based on what people are saying on this thread -- it is not an unbiased sample as there is one bitter duke person and a few people who love brown. PLME is a great program, but if you don't like brown, don't go there! If you like duke, go there and you will get into a med school if you work hard and do well. You would have to do well in the PLME program too, so don't think that you are getting a free ride on that one. I love going to duke, and all of my friends do too. You can't go wrong with picking one of the best schools in the country, especially one at which the students have so much fun and do so well. Irrespective of some students not getting into med school from duke, we get HUNDREDS of students in every year. Choosing duke is a completely resonable choice. If you feel like you will be happy at Duke go there, because if you go to brown and are unhappy, then you will do crappy.
     
  26. Toddr31

    Toddr31 Junior Member

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  27. Toddr31

    Toddr31 Junior Member

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    any more opinions? thanks..
     
  28. TommyGunn04

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    I think that being pre-med at Brown is particularly enjoyable compared to most schools, because our system encourages cooperation, minimizes competition, etc. Some Brown students will try to tell you otherwise, but I think that's just because they haven't experienced the pre-med insanity at other schools. And if you're PLME, there's even LESS pressure on you to "perform," so you can focus on learning things in order to become a good physician and help others, rather than memorize stuff just to get a grade on some exam. I absolutely LOVE this philosophy, and I've enjoyed it so much here that I'm trying to go to a medical school where the same type of philosophy is emphasized (like Duke and Penn Med). Lots of us study together, no one ever messes up your labs or steals library books, etc. And labs typically only count for 10% or less of a course grade, and everyone typically does well. As a result, you can focus on learning the concepts from class in the real lab setting, without having to worry about your %yield ruining your grade or something.

    And once again, NO CORE CURRICULUM! Woo hoo!!! I haven't had to take any course I didn't want to take, and I've loved every minute of it! :D Of course, as one of the above posters noted, I'm biased, since I go to Brown. Like I said, it's not for everyone...there are definitely some unhappy students here, who transfer to other schools. Basically it comes down to whether or not YOU think YOU would be happy here.
     
  29. TommyGunn04

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Toddr31:
    <strong>I've really been thinking that I want to go to Duke, it's a lot closer to home and I think I could still do pretty well. But after reading this board, I'm getting scared about med school admissions, but I don't want to get stuck at Brown med necessarily... You're all saying I should do PLME?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The bottom line is, you can't go wrong with EITHER place! If staying close to home is a priority, then maybe Duke is the best choice for you. Then again, if the security of already having a spot in medical school is MORE important, maybe Brown PLME is the way to go. What's more important to you? I guess the other thing to think about it whether or not you'd actually like living up North for 4, or perhaps 8 years. Would you?
     
  30. panda01

    panda01 Member

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    So Todd I guess you don't have time to go back and visit the schools again, but I say go where you'll be happy. I know that's somewhat of a shot in the dark right now, and I believe that it's possible to be happy anywhere you are, but some places are MUCH more conducive than others. Is it possible to get into a top notch med school from Duke? Absolutely. Will being Brown PLME take the pressure off and make you a good doctor? Definitely. So if you decide you'll be happier at Duke, then go there, but make a strong commitment to work hard, and more importantly, work smart, right from freshman year. (I'm NOT advocating being one of those crazy pre-meds that cry when they take practice MCATs; rather, make sure you love what you're learning and do well because you want to master the material. And make sure to party like a rock star too, because college is still college man.) But if you loved both places, can see yourself really getting into both places, then I say do Brown so you'll have the guarantee of going to a top-notch med school.

    Let us know what you decide!
     
  31. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member

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    Normally, I would agree with Omores' opinion.

    But all of us know people who could not get into med school from undergrads, non? this is not a comparison of Duke premed v.s. Brown premed or Stanford pre-law v.s. Yale pre-law, etc. Also, Brown's program is 8 year and allows you to apply out. this is not the same as some 6- or 7- year BS/MD programs that cut down on your undergrad education, forces you to get certain GPA/MCAT score before being allowed to move on to the MD portion, does not allow you to apply out.....

    I still say go with Brown PLME.
     

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