BS/MD Programs

[Carissa]

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I've heard a lot of negative things about BS/MD programs, but I'd still like to keep my options open. I know that since they are very competitive, there are a lot of requirements for applicants. And although I've searched, I can't find a very good list of these requirements, so if anyone would like to help me out, it would be very much appreciated.

 

[DrBowtie]

Each school has its own requirements. They aren't very standardized for these programs.

 

[xrevision]

What state do you live in? These are usually very state specific and how old are you?

 

[175961]

if you look at the MSAR book it will list all of the requirements that each school has for the BS/MD program. i dont have mine with me, but off the top of my head....you generally have to be within the top 5% of your class and/or have a gpa of 3.7 ish or higher, most schools require an ACT of 30+, i'm not sure about SAT. it actually isnt too bad if you are already a stand-out high school student and show you are determined to be a doctor. and theres even a bright side...once accepted into the program you only have to maintain a gpa of 3.4 and up and not get a C or worse your freshman year for most programs

 

[xrevision]

Wait your in Jersey... so.. lets see what schools you can consider:
The University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey will consider you if you have these stats:
Top 10% of your class, and a combined SAT critical Reading and Math score of 1400 (out of 1600). They do not factor in your essay at all. About 206 people applied for a spot and 24 were new entrants.

Rutgers University and UMDNJ
You need to actually go to Rutgers and are selected at the end of your sophomore year.


I think if anything, you should take the time to enjoy college and really solidify your reasons for going into medicine. Stay on these boards long enough and you will get a good chunk of both sides of the story.

 

[TheRealMD]

if you look at the MSAR book it will list all of the requirements that each school has for the BS/MD program. i dont have mine with me, but off the top of my head....you generally have to be within the top 5% of your class and/or have a gpa of 3.7 ish or higher, most schools require an ACT of 30+, i'm not sure about SAT. it actually isnt too bad if you are already a stand-out high school student and show you are determined to be a doctor. and theres even a bright side...once accepted into the program you only have to maintain a gpa of 3.4 and up and not get a C or worse your freshman year for most programs

Slacking in college is a nice way to prepare for the rigors of med school. 🙄

 

[175961]

Slacking in college is a nice way to prepare for the rigors of med school. 🙄

it was something i was actually puzzled about when i was reading the MSAR....they want you to be an outstanding high school student....then only an average premed student. i agree with you completely

 

[Carissa]

What state do you live in? These are usually very state specific and how old are you?

Well, as said I live in NJ. So is there very little chance of getting into one of these programs as an out-of-state applicant? And I'm a freshman.

 

[xrevision]

They probably factor in the "**** happens" in figuring out the required grades to retain admissions?

 

[Mandek]

Well, as said I live in NJ. So is there very little chance of getting into one of these programs as an out-of-state applicant? And I'm a freshman.

I am familiar with NEOUCOM. Have you heard of it?

 

[dth92]

Hordes of people from New Jersey are in Drexel's BS/MD program. I think it's a good deal if you can stomach what SDN has to say about Drexel Med.

 

[Carissa]

I am familiar with NEOUCOM. Have you heard of it?

I've heard of it, but I don't really know much about it. What is your opinion on the program?

Hordes of people from New Jersey are in Drexel's BS/MD program. I think it's a good deal if you can stomach what SDN has to say about Drexel Med.

Well, I'll check that out, too.

 

[seraph524]

People in BS/MD programs usually become complacent...

 

[Mandek]

lol, the OP already has a mdapps!!!!

 

[paranoid_eyes]

lol, the OP already has a mdapps!!!!

omfg....HAHAHAHAHA. that is just about the funniest thing ive seen.

"application year: 2015"

props to the OP, that kind of motivation is bound to take you places 👍

 

[brownie786]

I know someone who I went to Undergrad with was in a combined Cincinnati (ohio) BS/MD program and was from New Jersey. Look oon their website... it should give you the schools participating in the BS/MD program with cincinnati.

 

[BigRedder]

omfg....HAHAHAHAHA. that is just about the funniest thing ive seen.

"application year: 2015"

props to the OP, that kind of motivation is bound to take you places 👍

lol GPA 4.0
lol High Honor "Role"

 

[Jolie South]

something for the OP to consider. . .

I know that you're really excited about medicine and think that it's what you want to do now. However, I would really encourage you to examine career options and medicine in particular to see if this really is the path that is right for you. I know that you won't be absolutely locked in to medicine with a BS/MD program, but you are essentially making a life decision if you decide to apply for one of these programs.

Lots of things will change in your life when you head off to college. I think it's a great time to explore. You can always apply to med school later if your desire for this career is cemented.

I guess I'm just wondering why you are rushing into a BS/MD?

 

[Carissa]

lol, the OP already has a mdapps!!!!

Honestly, I just made that because I was pretty bored (snow day) and because I wanted to see what MDApps was all about.

I guess I'm just wondering why you are rushing into a BS/MD?

I would actually be very hesitant to attend one of these programs even if I was able to get in. I mean, how can you get a true college experience if you are cramming four years of work into four? Rather, the reason I'm looking into BS/MD programs is to keep my options open, not the other way around.

 

[xrevision]

I'd think that looking at BS/MD programs would limit your options, if anything.

 

[SoFarBehind]

ha! BS MD programs... i totally read that wrong😀

 

[Carissa]

I'd think that looking at BS/MD programs would limit your options, if anything.

What I meant to say is I don't want to regret completely disregarding these programs. I don't want to look back and realize that one program would have been a perfect fit for me, had I only discovered it earlier.

 

[BigRedPremed]

BS/MD programs look for similar things as top colleges, excellent SAT scores, grades, EC's, etc. If you're a high school freshman, there's no need to worry about the logistics of applying to BS/MD programs or worry about which programs take which applicants. Have fun. Enjoy HS. Work hard for good grades. Nail the SAT's when they come. Do some shadowing and hospital volunteering along the way.

The most competitive BS/MD programs (Northwestern HPME and Brown PLME) typically require applicants that are Harvard, Princeton, Yale caliber. Most of the other ones are less competitive but still require your SAT score to be generally in the 1300-1400 range (or whatever the equivalent is out of 2400).

 

[Carissa]

BS/MD programs look for similar things as top colleges, excellent SAT scores, grades, EC's, etc. If you're a high school freshman, there's no need to worry about the logistics of applying to BS/MD programs or worry about which programs take which applicants. Have fun. Enjoy HS. Work hard for good grades. Nail the SAT's when they come. Do some shadowing and hospital volunteering along the way.

The most competitive BS/MD programs (Northwestern HPME and Brown PLME) typically require applicants that are Harvard, Princeton, Yale caliber. Most of the other ones are less competitive but still require your SAT score to be generally in the 1300-1400 range (or whatever the equivalent is out of 2400).

Of course! 😀

And thanks so much for your help.

 

[foreverLaur]

My two neighbors from growing up are both in NEOUCOMs BS/MD program so I could get you in contact with them if you'd like. One is now a 1st year med student and the other is a 3rd year med student. They have both done very well in the program and are both very glad they did it.

Personally, I would have loved to eliminate all the general education stuff from my curriculum - I'm yet to take a gen ed class I didn't hate 🙂

At NEOUCOM, the average GPA of accepted students was 3.83 with a 29 ACT and a 1299 SAT score. Here is their viewbook: http://www.neoucom.edu/Students/ADMI/2008viewbook.pdf
Page 7 is the curriculum you take during the BS portion.

 

[RapplixGmed]

Speaking as a BS/MD student, I'd say go for it. The life is amazing compared to that of the average premed. Minimum stress and you get to do whatever you like to do. That translates into extra sleep and higher GPA guaranteed!

I love math and this is the only way I can really get away with taking hardcore engineering, math, and physics courses in a "risk free" environment. Guess, what? I ended up liking them so much that I got good grades too. If you're good enough and passionate enough about medicine to get into BS/MD, you'll do well in undergrad. As others have said, kick back, relax, have fun!

added tip: pick a program that you can apply out of without losing your spot

Now, its time for me to stop slacking on SDN and go mathematically model the healthcare system (not kidding: ICM contest problem here)

 

[Carissa]

Speaking as a BS/MD student, I'd say go for it. The life is amazing compared to that of the average premed. Minimum stress and you get to do whatever you like to do. That translates into extra sleep and higher GPA guaranteed!

I love math and this is the only way I can really get away with taking hardcore engineering, math, and physics courses in a "risk free" environment. Guess, what? I ended up liking them so much that I got good grades too. If you're good enough and passionate enough about medicine to get into BS/MD, you'll do well in undergrad. As others have said, kick back, relax, have fun!

added tip: pick a program that you can apply out of without losing your spot

Now, its time for me to stop slacking on SDN and go mathematically model the healthcare system (not kidding: ICM contest problem here)

Thanks for the input! And does anyone know any specific programs that you can apply out of? Oh, and good luck with your contest!

 

[CTtarheel]

Be sure you know you want to do medicine before you do one of those combined programs. 4 Years in college is a long time and I really enjoyed taking some of that time to explore various career opportunities. Most people who come in to school as pre-meds don't apply to med school and the #1 reason is not that they can't do the coursework but that they find something else they like and decide that 4 more years med school + 3-7 more years as a resident just isn't worth it anymore.

So . . . if you do one of these programs and change your mind you're looking at having a worthless degree in "premedical sciences" or a BA degree in a science field (equally worthless) and thus essentially nothing to fall back on without adding another year of college. Make sure you're explored not only medicine (through shadowing, volunteering, etc.) but also other science fields (research, academia) and non-science fields to get a pretty good idea of what you want to do. You're committing to a 11-15 year journey (yes, almost as much time as you've been alive so far). Make sure it's the right one for you.

 

[foreverLaur]

Well if you do change your mind, you can still going into nursing (1 year BSN programs everywhere for people with any bachelors degree) or become a PA. Even if you do need an extra year of college, who cares? You'll still graduate in 3 years.

But I agree, if you aren't at least dead set on practicing medicine, I wouldn't do it. You can still graduate college in 3 years if you go to school in the summer and then go to med school if that is what you want (some girl at my old small college did it - she was in our newspaper).

I was premedicine for a long time, but in my junior year I learned about the PA profession and now I'm really happy that I am pursuing it over medicine.

 

[streetlight]

GO GO GO for the BS/MD programs. If you don't, you're going to end up at some top tier college where competition for grades could be tough. Some of your friends will surely be in BS/MD programs and while you are studying for your MCATs, they'll be "studying" abroad at awesome places and having a great time. And you never know, you could just end up at the same place as them after putting in 100000x the effort. I kinda regret not going to a BS/MD program and picking MIT instead because life as a premed is NOT fun, while my friends at BS/MD programs are already in medical school, didn't have to go through the MCAT, and spent a significant portion of their undergrad time exploring the world. dooo it if you know you want to go for medicine, seriously.

 

[foreverLaur]

GO GO GO for the BS/MD programs. If you don't, you're going to end up at some top tier college where competition for grades could be tough. Some of your friends will surely be in BS/MD programs and while you are studying for your MCATs, they'll be "studying" abroad at awesome places and having a great time. And you never know, you could just end up at the same place as them after putting in 100000x the effort. I kinda regret not going to a BS/MD program and picking MIT instead because life as a premed is NOT fun, while my friends at BS/MD programs are already in medical school, didn't have to go through the MCAT, and spent a significant portion of their undergrad time exploring the world. dooo it if you know you want to go for medicine, seriously.

Most the BS/MD programs I am aware of still require you to take the MCAT. NEOUCOM requires a minimum score to proceed (although I think it is only a 24).

 

[streetlight]

Most the BS/MD programs I am aware of still require you to take the MCAT. NEOUCOM requires a minimum score to proceed (although I think it is only a 24).

ok but generally the low minimum scores do not require extensive studying and stress that the rest of us need to go through when studying for the MCAT. plus i believe you can just take it as many times as you want until you hit the minimum score.

 

[foreverLaur]

ok but generally the low minimum scores do not require extensive studying and stress that the rest of us need to go through when studying for the MCAT. plus i believe you can just take it as many times as you want until you hit the minimum score.

You have a lot of courses you are taking while studying for the MCAT. Cramming general chemistry, organic chemistry, physics, biochemistry, calculus, physiology, genetics, qualitative chemistry, statistics, psychology, ethics, and enough other classes to make 86 credit hours into two years isn't exactly a walk in the park. That is a lot of science really fast and you have to keep a high GPA. You need a 3.25 GPA and at least an 8 in each section of the MCAT. The BS/MD option is not easier, it is quicker. They don't get to cushion each semester with "easy classes" - it is a semester filled with a full course load of hard upper level science courses. If you go into a BS/MD program because you want to take the easy route, you'll be in for a big surprise. Only go the BS/MD route if you are an extremely hard working and dedicated person who is positive medicine is for you.

 

[al112987]

Why even tell her to go for it or not?

she still has 3 years before she even has to worry about applying to one of these programs.

To the OP, if you're a freshman in HS, you cannot possibly know if you truly want to go into medicine. I know every high school overachiever believes it's their life's ambition, then they hit college, get some experience, understand what medicine is really like and change career paths.

 

[Maxprime]

To the OP, if you're a freshman in HS, you cannot possibly know if you truly want to go into medicine. I know every high school overachiever believes it's their life's ambition, then they hit college, get some experience, understand what medicine is really like and change career paths.

Obviously, I don't mean to talk down to the OP. Everyone hates hearing "we're older and wiser so just believe us" - i.e. the tone we get from all the doctors who plead with us not to go to med school.

Even as a senior in college, I think you're doing yourself a real disservice by not getting some life experience before deciding what you want to do with the rest of your life.

Out of curiosity - if you do BS/MD and decide you don't want to do the MD, do you just have to finish out your other 2 years normally?

 

[Roy7]

In response to the OP's question - there are a few books on the subject - the most recent one I can see was written in 2004. I'd recommend getting a newer one as stuff changes year from year.

I went to a 6 year BS/MD program and dont regret it at all. That being said, it definitely isnt for everyone.

Please PM me if you have any questions and good luck.

 

[smsc2009]

Alot of BS/MD programs are eight years. Four years BS, four years MD. It is a good idea to apply to these programs if you are sure medicine is what you want. Some of them are binding which is a downside; however, the fact that it promises you a seat in a medical program is the advantage which is why people apply. (again if they are positive that medicine is what they want) A friend of mine was lucky enough to be accepted at a school like this. He was a scholar student at a high school with a very compectitive atmosphere.

 

[Carissa]

In response to the OP's question - there are a few books on the subject - the most recent one I can see was written in 2004. I'd recommend getting a newer one as stuff changes year from year.

If anyone knows a recently published book, I'd really appreciate it!

 

[RapplixGmed]

If anyone knows a recently published book, I'd really appreciate it!

The MSAR has a section on BS/MD programs. I think the princeton's review's book "planning a life in medicine" also has a small section. I don't know of any others though.

In reference to your previous question, VCU's is nonbinding and its awesome here! 👍

 

[Roy7]

I dont remember off the top of my head, but check amazon.com and just do a search for something like combined medical programs, a few things should come up.

G'luck.

 

[Crazy4F1]

Wait your in Jersey... so.. lets see what schools you can consider:
The University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey will consider you if you have these stats:
Top 10% of your class, and a combined SAT critical Reading and Math score of 1400 (out of 1600). They do not factor in your essay at all. About 206 people applied for a spot and 24 were new entrants.

Rutgers University and UMDNJ
You need to actually go to Rutgers and are selected at the end of your sophomore year.


I think if anything, you should take the time to enjoy college and really solidify your reasons for going into medicine. Stay on these boards long enough and you will get a good chunk of both sides of the story.

a good option for people from NJ is to do the combined program with TCNJ and NJMS. TCNJ has an outstanding academic reputation. in general, from those who apply they tend to interview students with over a 1500 SAT (on the old format, of course 😀) feel free to PM me if you are interested in TCNJ 🙂

 

[yume]

there are also programs w/ schools in the Caribbean... like St. Georges I know has a program like that. Idk if you want to go out of the US but it's still an option. it's not like if you're actually able to graduate you can't apply to schools in country.

 

[Carissa]

The MSAR has a section on BS/MD programs. I think the princeton's review's book "planning a life in medicine" also has a small section. I don't know of any others though.

In reference to your previous question, VCU's is nonbinding and its awesome here! 👍

It does, but it is very small and doesn't go into detail about the individual programs at all. And I'll definitely look into VCU. So can I assume that you have experience with that program?

I dont remember off the top of my head, but check amazon.com and just do a search for something like combined medical programs, a few things should come up.

G'luck.

I have before, but none of the books are very recent.

a good option for people from NJ is to do the combined program with TCNJ and NJMS. TCNJ has an outstanding academic reputation. in general, from those who apply they tend to interview students with over a 1500 SAT (on the old format, of course 😀) feel free to PM me if you are interested in TCNJ 🙂

I'll definitely look into that!

there are also programs w/ schools in the Caribbean... like St. Georges I know has a program like that. Idk if you want to go out of the US but it's still an option. it's not like if you're actually able to graduate you can't apply to schools in country.

Honestly, I haven't considered college out of the US at all, but that certainly is a very interesting option.

 

[GoBuckeyes913]

]You have a lot of courses you are taking while studying for the MCAT[/B]. Cramming general chemistry, organic chemistry, physics, biochemistry, calculus, physiology, genetics, qualitative chemistry, statistics, psychology, ethics, and enough other classes to make 86 credit hours into two years isn't exactly a walk in the park. That is a lot of science really fast andyou have to keep a high GPA. You need a 3.25 GPA and at least an 8 in each section of the MCAT. The BS/MD option is not easier, it is quicker. They don't get to cushion each semester with "easy classes" - it is a semester filled with a full course load of hard upper level science courses. If you go into a BS/MD program because you want to take the easy route, you'll be in for a big surprise. Only go the BS/MD route if you are an extremely hard working and dedicated person who is positive medicine is for you.

NEOUCOM students typically take about 25-30 credit hours each semester in undergrad. They have the option to finish undergrad in 2 or 3 years before proceeding to 4 years of med school. After this time they have to take the MCAT and get at least an 8 in each section. They have 3 chances as the max # of times they can take the MCAT to achieve this. It's definitely not easier.

From seeing the BS/MDs rotate in the hospitals I have been at, and from what my attendings and residents have told me...although wicked smart, most cannot conduct a normal conversation with patients (or anyone for the matter) due to their immaturity and lack of social exposure. Not all BS/MD students are like this, but I will be audacious and say at least 75% of the ones (from NEOUCOM) I and my attendings/residents have encountered have been that way (Excluding direct admits, which they take approx 20/year). The ones that are reading this thinking "That's absurd", I'm just putting it out there so you are aware. The program in general sounds like a good idea, and it should be, but I think it really takes away from the maturation that "regular" college provides. The attendings call them BS/MDs.... but they refer to the "BS" as something other than its intended meaning. Use your imagination....

 

[GoBuckeyes913]

there are also programs w/ schools in the Caribbean... like St. Georges I know has a program like that. Idk if you want to go out of the US but it's still an option. it's not like if you're actually able to graduate you can't apply to schools in country.

Oh, try at all costs to avoid going to the carribean. You'll have a harder time getting a good residency in the states down the line.

 

[Wylde]

props to the OP, that kind of motivation is bound to take you places 👍

insanity, self-loathing, depression...

Option 1) Work your *** off in HS to get into a bs/md program and then work your *** off to stay in it

Option 2) smoke lots of pot and skip even more school in HS and then work your *** off in college to get a MD

 

[Drogba]

Wait you are a freshman in highschool? 😕

You've got a long way to before even considering what colleges you are competitive for let alone whether you will be able to get into a BS/MD program. In any case you shouldn't be worrying about this at all at... 14 or 15 years of age? Please just do your best in highschool and enjoy yourself. And please take off your 8th grade SAT score from your MDApps.

 

[JonnyQuestMD]

-

 

[135892]

What normal, sane, high school freshman thinks about college, much less med school....

 

[Drogba]

Anyone else notice the ops animated avatar? Scary...

Carissa, one piece of sincere advice: don't let your ideations of a medical career be the entire basis for your sense of self.