Building a outreach client base - what happens if you leave a group?

[NuclearDust]

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Okay so no one take this the wrong way, but I have a question about building an outreach client base in a physician-owned private practice general path group that has never taken interest in advertising or building anything to speak of in terms of outreach clients. If I were to put a lot of effort into this when I get there, I would like the ability to bring these clients with me if I were to leave the group down the road (not that I think that would happen, but if things didn't work out there or I needed to move for other personal reasons I would want this personal energy that I put into building an outreach client base not to go to waste (particularly since the group has not done this previously).

In the same vein, if I were to go out and knock on doors. Should I be able to say that these specimens should come to me specifically if the client wishes and if should I get 100% of the professional billing from these clients if the group is structured generally the everyone is payed the same based on hospital based work?

** as a caveat I'm not talking about leaving the group and setting up a single specialty group across the street or anything like that**

 

[icpshootyz]

Okay so no one take this the wrong way, but I have a question about building an outreach client base in a physician-owned private practice general path group that has never taken interest in advertising or building anything to speak of in terms of outreach clients. If I were to put a lot of effort into this when I get there, I would like the ability to bring these clients with me if I were to leave the group down the road (not that I think that would happen, but if things didn't work out there or I needed to move for other personal reasons I would want this personal energy that I put into building an outreach client base not to go to waste (particularly since the group has not done this previously).

In the same vein, if I were to go out and knock on doors. Should I be able to say that these specimens should come to me specifically if the client wishes and if should I get 100% of the professional billing from these clients if the group is structured generally the everyone is payed the same based on hospital based work?

** as a caveat I'm not talking about leaving the group and setting up a single specialty group across the street or anything like that**

Do you have a contract with the group currently? I know my contract specifically states that all clients are clients of the group, not mine, and there's a non-compete built in if I leave. So for me I couldn't take those clients with me (although I suppose a client voluntarily choosing to follow you is sort of hard to prosecute).

 

[NuclearDust]

Do you have a contract with the group currently? I know my contract specifically states that all clients are clients of the group, not mine, and there's a non-compete built in if I leave. So for me I couldn't take those clients with me (although I suppose a client voluntarily choosing to follow you is sort of hard to prosecute).

No, I am in the process of contract negotiations. This is what my question is about. Is it reasonable to put these caveats in the contract? Is that something a group would be reasonable about?

1. Personal clients do not belong to the group. Or that they do not belong to the group at the time of the contract being dissolved or something like that?

2. Should I get a higher percentage of the income generated by the clinents that I went out and found?

3. If I go out to recruit these clients should I be able to say that I sign those cases out, instead of them going into the general pool?

** at least some of these clients would be previous friends of mine from medical school and Fellowship. So at least some of them I already have a personal relationship with. But I would be hoping to build more outside of that.

 

[icpshootyz]

No, I am in the process of contract negotiations. This is what my question is about. Is it reasonable to put these caveats in the contract? Is that something a group would be reasonable about?

1. Personal clients do not belong to the group. Or that they do not belong to the group at the time of the contract being dissolved or something like that?

2. Should I get a higher percentage of the income generated by the clinents that I went out and found?

3. If I go out to recruit these clients should I be able to say that I sign those cases out, instead of them going into the general pool?

** at least some of these clients would be previous friends of mine from medical school and Fellowship. So at least some of them I already have a personal relationship with. But I would be hoping to build more outside of that.

I guess a lot of it would depend on your leverage and how the group has been structured historically, and what the contracts were for other hires before you. All three points seem reasonable if you are doing the work to gain these clients and maintain relationships with them. But would the group offer you special treatment not offered to other docs? I don't know about getting to demand higher income from those clients, but I do think you should be able to say that only you sign their cases out if they're requesting you. I'll let other folks who have more experience hiring people or managing a group give more specific answers.

 

[Pathbusiness]

Before you bring all these issues up for discussion, are you sure you can pull some clients? Its a salesman oriented business model. Also if you bring a client in, it becomes group's client. Also depends what the contract with the hospital is. I would not bring this up if I were a new recruit.

 

[Dave CX]

If you were the new guy in my group and tried to pull this nonsense before becoming a partner, I'd fire your ass.

 

[Autopsy101]

What is your goal in joining this group? Eventual partnership or remain an employee?

 

[NuclearDust]

If you were the new guy in my group and tried to pull this nonsense before becoming a partner, I'd fire your ass.

Why?

 

[NuclearDust]

What is your goal in joining this group? Eventual partnership or remain an employee?

The goal is partnership, provided that the years leading up to partnership eligibility go well, and the group is just as good as a fit as it seems. But it seems like the partners have historically had no interest in doing this sort of activity with their business.

 

[NuclearDust]

Before you bring all these issues up for discussion, are you sure you can pull some clients? Its a salesman oriented business model. Also if you bring a client in, it becomes group's client. Also depends what the contract with the hospital is. I would not bring this up if I were a new recruit.

Thanks

 

[Dave CX]

You should thank god if you were made a partner and not assume that all the allegedly lazy and uninterested partners are not the useless lazy sacks of **** that you seem to think they are.

 

[Pathbusiness]

Even in a stand alone AP lab with sales team, territories, and existing outreach clients, if you as a pathologist bring any new account, all you can expect is commission which sales guys make for the first year only.

 

[Thrombus]

The goal is partnership, provided that the years leading up to partnership eligibility go well, and the group is just as good as a fit as it seems. But it seems like the partners have historically had no interest in doing this sort of activity with their business.

I would fire your ass for thinking like this too!

 

[Alteran]

If you're that confident that you can get that kind of business, why not just incorporate for yourself and not bother having to join that group, or any other group for that matter? I've seen single pathologists, not in association with any other pathology group, sweep up several POD labs in town and they seem to do OK enough for it to be worth their time. I have no specifics on the logistics of doing that, but it seems to work for them.

The only problem is that these arrangements are rarely long term, as in greater than 5-10 years. Eventually these POD labs will want "more" service or expertise. Once your solo practice outlives it's usefulness to the group, they'll trade you for another group that can provide a higher level of service (i.e. EMR meaningful use, genetic/molecular testing, etc.). Or, the POD lab practice gets bought out by another group/hospital/entity that already has an exclusive contract with another pathology group and you're not part of the acquisition.

Oh, and I should mention that in these scenarios, which I have seen happen not infrequently, you will have zero leverage with them.

 

[AZpath]

I would fire your ass for thinking like this too!

Ditto.

 

[NuclearDust]

I would fire your ass for thinking like this too![/QUOTE

Again, why is that?

 

[turtle1966]

[/QUOTE "I would fire your ass for thinking like this too!"
Again, why is that? [/QUOTE]

No offense intended, but because [you don't understand "why"]. It could be reasoned in a list format, but then, you would not agree with those reasons. It is related to individual personality.

It is a matter of either "you do" or "you don't". Majority "do" and they are afraid those who "don't".

 

[Pathbusiness]

I would fire your ass for thinking like this too![/QUOTE

Again, why is that?
Because its not a good idea pretending to be an expert at something(building an outreach program with zero experience) which you are not. That too in front of people who "have been there done that"(aka your employers). First thing to do is learn from them how to be a productive member of the group.

 

[Autopsy101]

The goal is partnership, provided that the years leading up to partnership eligibility go well, and the group is just as good as a fit as it seems. But it seems like the partners have historically had no interest in doing this sort of activity with their business.

If that is your goal, my opinion is that you should be up front with them that you will sign the specimens of these newly recruited clients and that you would like a productivity bonus for that extra work. However, you will need a plan for vacations/sick days and the like. Do not expect other members of your group to cover this work when you are not in the office if you are receiving bonuses for it - it will not be well received. I would not discuss what happens to the clients if you leave because ideally you would like to stay. If you take the discussion there, the partners may see you as constantly having one foot out the door and not a team player. People with this attitude are not offered partnership, but continued employee contracts (or other action - see the other comments 😉). I would focus on providing excellent service and building long term relationships with the clients. If you leave, you want clients to choose to follow you to your new location. You don't want the reputation of "stealing clients" to follow you - pathology is a small world, and you never know who you may be interviewing with tomorrow.