Bullying in Clinical Group, How to Respond?

[Syndonium]

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Hoping for some clarity, feedback, and advice from some neutral 3rd parties here. Been having ongoing issues during my 1st year and they're sort of roaring to a head during my 2nd year.

Our school puts us in "clinical groups" with peers from our class, and we do lots of activities together during preclinical years (and I think maybe MS3/4 too but less). I've had an issue with my group almost from day 1, been patient with it but life stress and constantly just putting up with it has me where I've had enough. Basically I'm regularly ignored, my inputs and contributions very seldom credited to me, and there's been this underlying feeling of passive aggressiveness I've had pretty much for the whole past year.

I'm a pretty soft spoken guy, timid is my baseline. I also have to give myself credit (because I spent a lot of my 1st year questioning how intelligent I really was) that I'm fairly smart. I got into med school my first try, most of my group members did not (and no I never brought this up, they did talking about 3-4 cycles before they got in). I only bring this up because my group has made me feel stupid and they never trust what I say, I can recall a specific Anatomy Lab instance where I pointed out a structure and explained about it, it was correct and reasonable, but a group member commented "trust but verify" checking with the TA first. That by itself isn't strange, in general I'm the same, except that's a pattern of them never trusting my contributions, they don't do that to other members of the group, and even when I discuss 1-on-1 with someone after being blown off, and they say THE EXACT SAME THING it's praised, acknowledged, and I'm ignored.

It's been extremely frustrating, alienating, and I suppose I even feel gas lit at this point. There's one specific person in the group whose very extroverted, the "leader" of our group (communication liaison) and she's been super passive aggressive towards me since Basically day 1. I never really liked her very much from the start (looking back probably because how she treated me) and when I confronted her during a group meeting about this she did admit to being passive aggressive.

We had a big group meeting about this issue and I mostly just felt attacked and gas lit a bit like I've been the problem. I'm trying to assess things maturely, this girl whose been the "worst bully" of them all basically accused me of interrupting her constantly (I'm shy, quiet, the issue being discussed was me feeling ignored, by her in particular even, and I'm usually interrupted so I really didn't get this) but another group member who I get along with decently did say I at times interrupt professors and maybe it's subconscious. I can buy I might do that as far as questions go because I'm trying to learn and so I ask questions during lecture, during pauses and breaks in clinic activities, and may cut in if a professor is not answering my question correctly by clarifying what I was asking. I've never had anyone really tell me I have an interrupting issue before this. No staff/professors/attendings have ever said anything poor about my behavior. This is also the first time me interrupting has ever been brought up.

This girl also accused me of "intimidating" or trying to "make her look bad or unprepared" during patient encounters. This happened the 2 times we were by ourselves practicing physicals on patients apparently, where she never brought this up to me before, I never intentionally did that, and conveniently it's an instance where it is just my word against hers that I try to make her look bad. This is what really felt like things were just turned back on me and I was being gas lit for times when we are BOTH PRACTICING (this is a simulated encounter where we are both learning how to do the exam, I don't say anything in actual patient encounters) and me talking aloud to myself the next steps as she's doing the exam first, or me trying to be helpful and offering suggestions on ways I learned to do a technique as apparently me undermining her competence and trying to make her look unprepared?

I'm not very happy in this situation. I also don't want someone to feel intimidated by me, but also I feel so very wronged by the dynamic that I'm having a hard time feeling guilty about some subconscious interruptions, some apparent asserting of my dominance, and other nonsense that I really cannot perceive at all. I usually don't even like dealing with this girl since her outgoing personality and my shy personality don't mix at all.

Should I reach out to faculty about this? I'm thinking I should at least request me and this girl classmate aren't paired up anymore because if she really feels I do that it would be better for both of us, and I wouldn't have to risk this girl who seems to have it out for me making up something more absurd. What do y'all think I should do? Am I being bullied? Is this in my head? Should I request we not be paired, or even request changing to a different group altogether? In general the group do all ignore me, but there are a few privately who I'm on better terms with and they only seem to participate in this alienating me when we are as a group.

Thanks for advice, and I'm sorry for the long winded post! Never thought I'd have to deal with this.

 

[h23]

honestly, its kind of difficult to give proper advice when i don't know the exact context of your situation. That doesn't mean that your feelings are invalidated or anything like that. It might be that there is a dynamic in that group that is toxic and not good for a proper learning environment. Usually, I try to ignore as much as I can, but I completely understand if it becomes a lot to have to bear. People have different breaking points. Ultimately, i feel like you should try to speak to someone about it, whether that be another friend you trust to get another opinion or a faculty member and try to explain the situation as clearly and coherently as you possibly can. Maybe something like this won't be necessary though and you can just wait until you're away from this group and make friends with people who you vibe with. Ultimately, after med school, you likely won't ever see these guys again. I'm not sure what other advice I can give you, but hope things do go well for you and that things do get better

 

[Rapsidy]

It’s up to you whether or not you want to involve the school. I would possibly talk about it one on one with a faculty member you may trust. Unless you feel like their behavior would go so far as to try and harm your medical career I wouldn’t personally get the school involved because that can cause bigger messes down the line and can get really dicey with he said she said things. Unfortunately, you’ll have coworkers like this, patients like this, family, etc, it doesn’t stop outside of school so if you can try to see it as a learning experience. In the end you likely won’t see them again after this year unless you happen to be on the same rotations (not likely) and can just do your best to ignore them and focus on yourself.

 

[Lifeblood_20]

If your school has an advisor or neutral mentor/ombudsperson (who'd talk confidentially with students), maybe discuss it with them (face-to-face, not in writing). Definitely keep it professional, no name calling or finger pointing, but something like "I feel like the environment of my group isn't the most conducive to my learning. I have perceived some differences in personality and personal habits which have been impacting the learning experiences for group members. I was wondering if you have any advice."

 

[Syndonium]

It’s up to you whether or not you want to involve the school. I would possibly talk about it one on one with a faculty member you may trust. Unless you feel like their behavior would go so far as to try and harm your medical career I wouldn’t personally get the school involved because that can cause bigger messes down the line and can get really dicey with he said she said things. Unfortunately, you’ll have coworkers like this, patients like this, family, etc, it doesn’t stop outside of school so if you can try to see it as a learning experience. In the end you likely won’t see them again after this year unless you happen to be on the same rotations (not likely) and can just do your best to ignore them and focus on yourself.

I worry exactly for if it might hurt my medical career going forward. Now I'm married, and I just try to stay in my lane which is why I've been really thrown by this accusation that I'm somehow making this woman look bad/incompetent and wonder if maybe that's her (?) I just don't like people negatively attributing things to my character like that because I don't try to put anyone down.

The people in the group try to uplift everyone but me, and that makes me feel put down. If I were to contact the school and ask if they could privately just not pair me up with this person anymore without making them aware (I can be paired with other members of the group just fine, and if this person had no knowledge of the request I doubt they'd even notice we happen to not be paired since it's usually random pairings anyway) do you think that would help?

I don't want to be alone with this person, although those patient encounters are recorded so I guess if it came down to a more serious accusation there'd be proof 🤷‍♂️ Should I just give up on trying to be collegial and study by myself or with other students who are friends that are in another group? I mean that wouldn't be very subtle and I worry it might instigate more bullying..

 

[wysdoc]

This sounds miserable ! When you had your group meeting to address the matter, was there any neutral party/faculty present?
If you already tried to mediate this within the group and this was the result, you might ask your faculty supervisor if you could change to a different study group for the rest of 2nd year.
During year 3/4 it is much less likely you will be assigned with your nemesis.

 

[DarkHorizon]

Sounds toxic. Just show up and do your work and keep interactions to minimal, be pleasant, do what’s required, be polite but don’t take chit. Don’t get superiors involved unless you absolutely have to, it’s all very petty, and you’ll encounter all of this many times over in your medical training by people of various stature.

 

[Syndonium]

This sounds miserable ! When you had your group meeting to address the matter, was there any neutral party/faculty present?
If you already tried to mediate this within the group and this was the result, you might ask your faculty supervisor if you could change to a different study group for the rest of 2nd year.
During year 3/4 it is much less likely you will be assigned with your nemesis.

There wasn't, just us students in the group because I had communicated how I was feeling singled out/alienated in the group. I guess the best thing to do is just not talk to them at all except what's mandated/required and to just put in what I have to for myself?

If I stop caring about trying to help/be a good group mate I guess that'll work for the best and stress me out less. I'll try to just tune things out and let things slide off my back 👍 Just was super toxic because I thought some of these folks were my friends.

 

[Rapsidy]

Just make sure you are never alone in a room with her unless it’s for patient interactions which like you said are recorded and focus on you and your wife.

Sorry to say but this ****ty behavior just continues in life, some people are just miserable and take out their misery on others so they feel slightly better about themselves. You aren’t going to change them and you certainly shouldn’t waste any more time worrying about them.

 

[operaman]

As others have said - impossible to be terribly helpful just because this sounds like a nuanced dynamic and none of us were there.

I will offer a few thoughts:

- sounds like toxic girl has plenty of issues of her own. A lot of people in Med school are desperately trying to hold it all together and sometimes their crap behavior is simply how they cope. It doesn’t take much - like your patient encounter thing - to push their insecurity buttons so you may have touched more of a nerve than your realize.

- if you’re always asking questions in lecture, you may have inadvertently become “annoying question guy.” Sometimes these folks are just seen as annoying and other times they come off as being gunners jus trying to suck up. Either way isn’t good, and it actually may explain some of the group dynamic. If lots of people ask questions then maybe this isn’t an issue; if it’s basically just you and 1-2 other people that ever interrupt to ask questions, then it may be a thing. Not much to do about it now, though it does mean the same dynamic might develop in a new group too. You can either stop doing or start making occasional self deprecating comments about it so at least it shows you’re self aware about it.

- I would definitely ask not to be paired up with group leader girl anymore. I’d reach out through a faculty member you trust and just say you aren’t comfortable, that there’s a weird dynamic where she’s been hostile toward you personally and that you think any further pairings would detract from both your educations. Try not to make her sound terrible, but make it clear you two simply can’t work together in this capacity. No matter what happens, you want to be on record (in writing) as having broached this first.

- while there’s something to be said for sticking it out, I’d probably go ahead see about switching to a different group. Surely someone has flunked out by now so there’s gotta be room somewhere. A fresh start would be nice and it’s not an unreasonable request. Piggy back the request on to your convo about passive aggressive girl. Tell the new group there was a scheduling issue or whatever. Doesn’t have to make sense; nobody will really care.

- thankfully much of this goes away on rotations. But it’s replaced by different annoying stuff. At least you change rotations often and so even a bad group won’t last that long.

- to anyone who tries to avoid doing anything for you about this by saying “you’re going to have to deal with many difficult people in your career,” tell them to shove it and that this is exactly how you deal with such people. Every doc I know has a list of docs they refuse to work with or refer to. Your list surely includes this passive aggressive girl already! Sometimes the best way to deal with certain people is just not working with them. You can refuse to work with certain docs and you can discharge patients from your practice - don’t let them feed you that cop out line about ensuring a crap situation because they don’t want to be inconvenienced.

 

[supsurfer]

Do you have an advisor you trust ?

 

[Syndonium]

Thank you all for the responses, advice, and encouraging words. After hearing from you all, speaking with my wife on the matter, and praying on it overnight I went ahead and contacted some people from the school. I politely and professionally requested from the scheduler of our group activities this student and I not be paired in the future as there is hostility and the learning environment is not conducive to either of us. I also used a reporting tool our school has for incidents of student mistreatment just to document the incident of our group communication and the retaliation/further humiliation this student put on me.

Hoping to be able to function respectfully at a very large distance from this classmate, and hoping the school will respect my wishes to keep it quiet so I don't have a worsening relationship with this student. I've never reported things like this before, although they sometimes address our whole class about incidents (in general terms) to remind us of Student Conduct outlined in the handbook when others apparently report things (you can report anonymously). I'll update for others what the response from the school is. Hoping it's helpful so maybe this story can help others who are in a similar situation know what to do (I was really split on if I should keep putting my head down like I've been for the past year or report this stuff).

Thank you all.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

As usual, @operaman has hit it out of the park with a polite and professional response. I will be a little more direct in my comments. You say you are shy, but are criticized for interrupting by asking questions. This doesn't sound all that shy. As someone who has given hundreds of presentations, from small groups to Grand Rounds, it is very annoying to be interrupted during a presentation. You can lose your train of thought, or possibly leave out some pertinent information. Consider asking questions st the end of rhe presentation? This might not cross that boundry of asking questions, where the person might feel like they are being interrogated. Clearly, this is not applicable to some meetings that are fact finding or casual in nature where interactions are more conversational. Usually, when someone thinks a group of people is against them for no reason, there is a reason contributing to the dynamic. I'm not saying others are blameless by a Longshot, but you might not realize that you are crossing a boundary when you interact with the group. Give it some thought. Good luck and best wishes.

 

[operaman]

Thank you all for the responses, advice, and encouraging words. After hearing from you all, speaking with my wife on the matter, and praying on it overnight I went ahead and contacted some people from the school. I politely and professionally requested from the scheduler of our group activities this student and I not be paired in the future as there is hostility and the learning environment is not conducive to either of us. I also used a reporting tool our school has for incidents of student mistreatment just to document the incident of our group communication and the retaliation/further humiliation this student put on me.

Hoping to be able to function respectfully at a very large distance from this classmate, and hoping the school will respect my wishes to keep it quiet so I don't have a worsening relationship with this student. I've never reported things like this before, although they sometimes address our whole class about incidents (in general terms) to remind us of Student Conduct outlined in the handbook when others apparently report things (you can report anonymously). I'll update for others what the response from the school is. Hoping it's helpful so maybe this story can help others who are in a similar situation know what to do (I was really split on if I should keep putting my head down like I've been for the past year or report this stuff).

Thank you all.

Well done.

If they ask for specifics, I think you could easily give a shortened version of your OP. Just saying that aggressive girl felt you were making her look bad and the small group as a whole has indicated that they’re all annoyed by your frequent questions. Validate the group and her concerns while also pointing out how hostile she/they have been in retaliation, the exclusion and belittling. It shows awareness on your part, prepares whoever contacts her for what she would say, and further demonstrates that even if neither of you are bad people, this pairing simply isnt good for anyone.

Hope your school handles it well!

 

[Redpancreas]

Hoping for some clarity, feedback, and advice from some neutral 3rd parties here. Been having ongoing issues during my 1st year and they're sort of roaring to a head during my 2nd year.

Our school puts us in "clinical groups" with peers from our class, and we do lots of activities together during preclinical years (and I think maybe MS3/4 too but less). I've had an issue with my group almost from day 1, been patient with it but life stress and constantly just putting up with it has me where I've had enough. Basically I'm regularly ignored, my inputs and contributions very seldom credited to me, and there's been this underlying feeling of passive aggressiveness I've had pretty much for the whole past year.

I'm a pretty soft spoken guy, timid is my baseline. I also have to give myself credit (because I spent a lot of my 1st year questioning how intelligent I really was) that I'm fairly smart. I got into med school my first try, most of my group members did not (and no I never brought this up, they did talking about 3-4 cycles before they got in). I only bring this up because my group has made me feel stupid and they never trust what I say, I can recall a specific Anatomy Lab instance where I pointed out a structure and explained about it, it was correct and reasonable, but a group member commented "trust but verify" checking with the TA first. That by itself isn't strange, in general I'm the same, except that's a pattern of them never trusting my contributions, they don't do that to other members of the group, and even when I discuss 1-on-1 with someone after being blown off, and they say THE EXACT SAME THING it's praised, acknowledged, and I'm ignored.

It's been extremely frustrating, alienating, and I suppose I even feel gas lit at this point. There's one specific person in the group whose very extroverted, the "leader" of our group (communication liaison) and she's been super passive aggressive towards me since Basically day 1. I never really liked her very much from the start (looking back probably because how she treated me) and when I confronted her during a group meeting about this she did admit to being passive aggressive.

We had a big group meeting about this issue and I mostly just felt attacked and gas lit a bit like I've been the problem. I'm trying to assess things maturely, this girl whose been the "worst bully" of them all basically accused me of interrupting her constantly (I'm shy, quiet, the issue being discussed was me feeling ignored, by her in particular even, and I'm usually interrupted so I really didn't get this) but another group member who I get along with decently did say I at times interrupt professors and maybe it's subconscious. I can buy I might do that as far as questions go because I'm trying to learn and so I ask questions during lecture, during pauses and breaks in clinic activities, and may cut in if a professor is not answering my question correctly by clarifying what I was asking. I've never had anyone really tell me I have an interrupting issue before this. No staff/professors/attendings have ever said anything poor about my behavior. This is also the first time me interrupting has ever been brought up.

This girl also accused me of "intimidating" or trying to "make her look bad or unprepared" during patient encounters. This happened the 2 times we were by ourselves practicing physicals on patients apparently, where she never brought this up to me before, I never intentionally did that, and conveniently it's an instance where it is just my word against hers that I try to make her look bad. This is what really felt like things were just turned back on me and I was being gas lit for times when we are BOTH PRACTICING (this is a simulated encounter where we are both learning how to do the exam, I don't say anything in actual patient encounters) and me talking aloud to myself the next steps as she's doing the exam first, or me trying to be helpful and offering suggestions on ways I learned to do a technique as apparently me undermining her competence and trying to make her look unprepared?

I'm not very happy in this situation. I also don't want someone to feel intimidated by me, but also I feel so very wronged by the dynamic that I'm having a hard time feeling guilty about some subconscious interruptions, some apparent asserting of my dominance, and other nonsense that I really cannot perceive at all. I usually don't even like dealing with this girl since her outgoing personality and my shy personality don't mix at all.

Should I reach out to faculty about this? I'm thinking I should at least request me and this girl classmate aren't paired up anymore because if she really feels I do that it would be better for both of us, and I wouldn't have to risk this girl who seems to have it out for me making up something more absurd. What do y'all think I should do? Am I being bullied? Is this in my head? Should I request we not be paired, or even request changing to a different group altogether? In general the group do all ignore me, but there are a few privately who I'm on better terms with and they only seem to participate in this alienating me when we are as a group.

Thanks for advice, and I'm sorry for the long winded post! Never thought I'd have to deal with this.

I don’t doubt that you’re fairly intelligent. Like you said, you came straight through and that takes some dedication and you’re probably very hard working. Ultimately, these medical knowledge nuggets mean very little. All this can be referenced or relearnt in a practical scenario later. The more stupid you make others feel, the harder time you’re going to have. Like Operaman says, people have their own insecurities and they will gang up in you if they feel you’re trying to be a gunner. Just keep your head down and do your job in your group and speak when spoken to. Don’t contradict anyone even if you think they’re wrong unless it affects something. You may benefit from some counseling not because you’re the problem but because it may help to have a real person walk you through this since it’s affected you to a large extent. If you approach this with a good heart, you’ll be rewarded.

 

[Redpancreas]

Well done.

If they ask for specifics, I think you could easily give a shortened version of your OP. Just saying that aggressive girl felt you were making her look bad and the small group as a whole has indicated that they’re all annoyed by your frequent questions. Validate the group and her concerns while also pointing out how hostile she/they have been in retaliation, the exclusion and belittling. It shows awareness on your part, prepares whoever contacts her for what she would say, and further demonstrates that even if neither of you are bad people, this pairing simply isnt good for anyone.

Hope your school handles it well!

Really good advice.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I'll add a couple of thoughts, the advice here is good already.

There are two "axioms" I tend to review with residents who end up in these types of predicaments. The first is "There are three sides to every story. What you think happened. What they think happened. And what really happened". All of our memories / experiences occur through the lens of our personalities and and past experiences. If asked to describe these events, it's very likely that their recollections will be very different than yours. And, if we had video to review, it's quite possible that your recollection might not completely line up with what we would see. This is NOT to say that anyone is being untruthful. It's just that how we interpret the interaction may be influenced by our own experiences. My point in all of this is that it's quite possible that this other person is not trying to come off this way, and in fact they may feel that your behaviors are actually the problem.

The second is that "The only person you can change is yourself". You can't change this other person's behavior. What you can do is change your own -- which raises the question "What could you have done differently to avoid this outcome?". Again, I am NOT giving the other person a pass here for their behavior. Even if they are mostly "to blame" for this bad situation, it's possible that some of your own behaviors may have triggered this poor behavior on her part -- and if you can recognize that, and change it, you can avoid this type of problem in the future.

Looking at what you wrote, I keyed in on several issues. The first is that in your group, you think that everyone tries to uplift everyone but you. Why is that? One possibility is that they are all so intimidated by this one person that they do it to make her happy -- but honestly that's pretty unlikely. More likely is that you're rubbing everyone the wrong way -- and she's reacting much more visibly than everyone else.

One example is your question asking. @operaman already talked about how asking questions can frustrate your colleagues. You also mentioned that if you ask a question, and the answerer isn't answring what you really wanted, you interrupt them. This is a very bad habit, it rarely comes across well. It's usually interpreted as rude. You may think it's efficient -- they aren't telling you what you want to know, you're getting them on track. But that's not how others are going to see it. If you ask a question and the person doesn't answer what you wanted to know, it's possible they misunderstood your question. Or, they don't know the answer. Or, they don't think it is relevant. In any case, the best option is thank them for the answer you got, and ask them later for clarification.

You also mentioned that she complained that you were trying to make her look bad. You mentioned that while she was examining SP's, you were "talking aloud to yourself what the next step would be". Although you were not trying to make her feel bad, that's exactly what her experience was. She heard you saying these things, and she interpreted that as "Syndonium doesn't think I know what the next step is, what a jerk!". That's not the message you were trying to send, but that's exactly the message she received. If these types of small things happened repeatedly, can you see how she might think you're the problem? And explains (but does not excuse) her behavior?

Again, in case anyone here thinks I'm blaming you for her bad behavior, I'm not. I'd have this same talk with her, focused on her reactions to your behavior. But at the end of the day, the only person's behavior you can change is yours. So, if you want to avoid these types of problems in the future even if rare, it's best to ask what you could have done differently.

 

[Syndonium]

I'll add a couple of thoughts, the advice here is good already.

There are two "axioms" I tend to review with residents who end up in these types of predicaments. The first is "There are three sides to every story. What you think happened. What they think happened. And what really happened". All of our memories / experiences occur through the lens of our personalities and and past experiences. If asked to describe these events, it's very likely that their recollections will be very different than yours. And, if we had video to review, it's quite possible that your recollection might not completely line up with what we would see. This is NOT to say that anyone is being untruthful. It's just that how we interpret the interaction may be influenced by our own experiences. My point in all of this is that it's quite possible that this other person is not trying to come off this way, and in fact they may feel that your behaviors are actually the problem.

The second is that "The only person you can change is yourself". You can't change this other person's behavior. What you can do is change your own -- which raises the question "What could you have done differently to avoid this outcome?". Again, I am NOT giving the other person a pass here for their behavior. Even if they are mostly "to blame" for this bad situation, it's possible that some of your own behaviors may have triggered this poor behavior on her part -- and if you can recognize that, and change it, you can avoid this type of problem in the future.

Looking at what you wrote, I keyed in on several issues. The first is that in your group, you think that everyone tries to uplift everyone but you. Why is that? One possibility is that they are all so intimidated by this one person that they do it to make her happy -- but honestly that's pretty unlikely. More likely is that you're rubbing everyone the wrong way -- and she's reacting much more visibly than everyone else.

One example is your question asking. @operaman already talked about how asking questions can frustrate your colleagues. You also mentioned that if you ask a question, and the answerer isn't answring what you really wanted, you interrupt them. This is a very bad habit, it rarely comes across well. It's usually interpreted as rude. You may think it's efficient -- they aren't telling you what you want to know, you're getting them on track. But that's not how others are going to see it. If you ask a question and the person doesn't answer what you wanted to know, it's possible they misunderstood your question. Or, they don't know the answer. Or, they don't think it is relevant. In any case, the best option is thank them for the answer you got, and ask them later for clarification.

You also mentioned that she complained that you were trying to make her look bad. You mentioned that while she was examining SP's, you were "talking aloud to yourself what the next step would be". Although you were not trying to make her feel bad, that's exactly what her experience was. She heard you saying these things, and she interpreted that as "Syndonium doesn't think I know what the next step is, what a jerk!". That's not the message you were trying to send, but that's exactly the message she received. If these types of small things happened repeatedly, can you see how she might think you're the problem? And explains (but does not excuse) her behavior?

Again, in case anyone here thinks I'm blaming you for her bad behavior, I'm not. I'd have this same talk with her, focused on her reactions to your behavior. But at the end of the day, the only person's behavior you can change is yours. So, if you want to avoid these types of problems in the future even if rare, it's best to ask what you could have done differently.

I appreciate the level headed advice a lot, and I agree with you here. This was the main reason I posted because I try to be self aware that I naturally will be defensive of myself, and that might hinder me from growing as a person. Often times I'm unfair to myself in situations from overcorrecting my own behavior since I'm naturally a people pleaser, so all the criticism of my response as well as the support I've received has been good for me to think on.

I did ask this person what I could have done differently to make them not feel that way, and I didn't get any real answer to how I could change. I walked away thinking the only way I could be better at not making this person feel poorly (which I never want to do to anyone) is to just not risk saying/doing anything towards this person. Even if prompted for feedback I should keep my mouth shut and same for talking aloud to myself (which I am capable of doing, I have a habit of talking to myself and try to limit that when around others).

I also get the feeling some people are having the wrong idea in this thread about my question asking. I've been in med school for over a year now and never had this apparent personal issue of mine addressed before this past week with this person. I've actually been credited by a MS4 we had as our TA of this clinical group last year as being well prepared to discussions, having good engagement, participating well, and they encouraged me to help push my group to participate more themselves (maybe this is some insecurity on their parts because evidently they don't seem to come prepared, and I am VERY self aware about how much talking I do versus others. This is why I describe myself as shy/timid. If nobody else speaks up after a question is posed to us for 15 seconds or so, awkward silence with nobody else volunteering an answer to an open question, I answer it).

I also ask way less questions in medical school than I did in undergrad since there's less time, more students, more material, the material is less complicated and more straightforward (it's just a volume challenge) and I don't interrupt professors in the middle of a presentation. At worst I raise my hand patiently like we've all been conditioned to do, and if it disrupts the flow the professor acknowledges me with a nod, I wait for 1 minute or so for them to finish and they prompt me to ask my question.

I've never had any faculty indicate to me I ask annoying or not pertinent questions. Before this group mentioned I do this today (and they provided no clear examples of times I do this, just saying I do it in general sometimes to back up my apparently interrupting nature that this female classmate was claiming I have) I never would have thought I had a question asking problem. I usually ask permission too between clinic encounters so as not to interrupt workflow like, "I had a quick question, could you help me out when you're free?". I just want to clear up if my question asking is apparently actually excessive, because I'm not even the person who asks the most questions in our med school class (although I am in my smaller clinical group since most of them never ask questions or engage period). 95% of lectures I ask 0 questions. The remaining 5% I ask at most 3 questions, usually though only 1-2. They are brief and take 20 seconds to respond. When in a conversation with a attending/professor, or a small group discussion, I of course ask more questions usually, and I was relaying that at worst I may cut off someone (in conversation with the faculty member) 20 seconds into an explanation to just clarify what I was asking. That's the worst I can recall ever doing, but because the person didn't cite examples of my behaving this way, I just had to imagine what the worst expression of this behavior I could've exhibited is, and this was it.

I do also understand not everyone here as full context and you all are only hearing my side of the story. During candid 1-on-1 feedback periods I explicitly ask where can I improve, or I feel like I have ways to go developing my professionalism (because I come from a low SES background and feel out of my element a lot of times) but those faculty members state explicitly I have no professionalism issues, that if I did it would be made known to me, and I'm performing just as they expect me to for my level of training. When I hear my group members complaining of poor evaluations from our preceptors when my evals were good, I keep my mouth shut, but I have held my tongue numerous occasions where my group seem to disrespect our seniors and teachers by bad mouthing them for criticizing their performance as med students. I definitely think if I have any part to play in the situation it's because I observe loads of poor behavior from my group and I don't join in on it, don't laugh at the jokes I find off color, don't "vibe with them" as others have pointed out, and they further exclude me because I send off subconscious disapproving signals/body language. I was taught if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all, and I don't. When I see my group mates do well I compliment them, when I see them mess up I hold my tongue regularly, but apparently these 2 instances I was alone with this person, so nobody but her can back this up, my comments she seemed to request from me were "undermining her competence". This is why, because she failed to really explain how I could change, I assume my judgement of what is not kind to say is flawed for her, and I should not say/interact at all to avoid the risk of her feeling this way.

 

[Redpancreas]

I appreciate the level headed advice a lot, and I agree with you here. This was the main reason I posted because I try to be self aware that I naturally will be defensive of myself, and that might hinder me from growing as a person. Often times I'm unfair to myself in situations from overcorrecting my own behavior since I'm naturally a people pleaser, so all the criticism of my response as well as the support I've received has been good for me to think on.

I did ask this person what I could have done differently to make them not feel that way, and I didn't get any real answer to how I could change. I walked away thinking the only way I could be better at not making this person feel poorly (which I never want to do to anyone) is to just not risk saying/doing anything towards this person. Even if prompted for feedback I should keep my mouth shut and same for talking aloud to myself (which I am capable of doing, I have a habit of talking to myself and try to limit that when around others).

I also get the feeling some people are having the wrong idea in this thread about my question asking. I've been in med school for over a year now and never had this apparent personal issue of mine addressed before this past week with this person. I've actually been credited by a MS4 we had as our TA of this clinical group last year as being well prepared to discussions, having good engagement, participating well, and they encouraged me to help push my group to participate more themselves (maybe this is some insecurity on their parts because evidently they don't seem to come prepared, and I am VERY self aware about how much talking I do versus others. This is why I describe myself as shy/timid. If nobody else speaks up after a question is posed to us for 15 seconds or so, awkward silence with nobody else volunteering an answer to an open question, I answer it).

I also ask way less questions in medical school than I did in undergrad since there's less time, more students, more material, the material is less complicated and more straightforward (it's just a volume challenge) and I don't interrupt professors in the middle of a presentation. At worst I raise my hand patiently like we've all been conditioned to do, and if it disrupts the flow the professor acknowledges me with a nod, I wait for 1 minute or so for them to finish and they prompt me to ask my question.

I've never had any faculty indicate to me I ask annoying or not pertinent questions. Before this group mentioned I do this today (and they provided no clear examples of times I do this, just saying I do it in general sometimes to back up my apparently interrupting nature that this female classmate was claiming I have) I never would have thought I had a question asking problem. I usually ask permission too between clinic encounters so as not to interrupt workflow like, "I had a quick question, could you help me out when you're free?". I just want to clear up if my question asking is apparently actually excessive, because I'm not even the person who asks the most questions in our med school class (although I am in my smaller clinical group since most of them never ask questions or engage period). 95% of lectures I ask 0 questions. The remaining 5% I ask at most 3 questions, usually though only 1-2. They are brief and take 20 seconds to respond. When in a conversation with a attending/professor, or a small group discussion, I of course ask more questions usually, and I was relaying that at worst I may cut off someone (in conversation with the faculty member) 20 seconds into an explanation to just clarify what I was asking. That's the worst I can recall ever doing, but because the person didn't cite examples of my behaving this way, I just had to imagine what the worst expression of this behavior I could've exhibited is, and this was it.

I do also understand not everyone here as full context and you all are only hearing my side of the story. During candid 1-on-1 feedback periods I explicitly ask where can I improve, or I feel like I have ways to go developing my professionalism (because I come from a low SES background and feel out of my element a lot of times) but those faculty members state explicitly I have no professionalism issues, that if I did it would be made known to me, and I'm performing just as they expect me to for my level of training. When I hear my group members complaining of poor evaluations from our preceptors when my evals were good, I keep my mouth shut, but I have held my tongue numerous occasions where my group seem to disrespect our seniors and teachers by bad mouthing them for criticizing their performance as med students. I definitely think if I have any part to play in the situation it's because I observe loads of poor behavior from my group and I don't join in on it, don't laugh at the jokes I find off color, don't "vibe with them" as others have pointed out, and they further exclude me because I send off subconscious disapproving signals/body language. I was taught if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all, and I don't. When I see my group mates do well I compliment them, when I see them mess up I hold my tongue regularly, but apparently these 2 instances I was alone with this person, so nobody but her can back this up, my comments she seemed to request from me were "undermining her competence". This is why, because she failed to really explain how I could change, I assume my judgement of what is not kind to say is flawed for her, and I should not say/interact at all to avoid the risk of her feeling this way.

I think it would be best if you saw someone in person to discuss this and set up a support system for yourself where you can vent/voice these concerns to someone who’s in your corner and is trying to get you to succeed. You are putting a lot of thought/energy into this and you will reap more insight by talking to a professional.

I wasn’t there and can’t dispute what you’re saying but my impression is that you’re giving yourself too much credit for your insight and even some of what you typed came off as off-putting to me (just being honest). Even if this is not the case and your insight is 100% on point, my concern would then pivot to the amount of headspace this is occupying. Toxic team dynamics will be much more frequent in M3 than M2 and even more frequent when you become a resident. If there’s something that needs to be fixed on how you approach these things, now is the ideal time to do it. Develop a framework of how to cope with this now.

 

[NITRAS]

I just wanted to say. You will have a lot of conflict in medicine. Conflict with patients. Conflict with nurses. Conflict with lazy doctors. That’s even after you get out of the weird power structure of MS 3/4 and residency. You don’t have to be friends with everyone, but you need to learn to be in the same sand box. I have a new ER doc who I think is dumber than a new NP with a power complex . . .but we have to play in the same sandbox. Try and keep my requests reasonable and an even tone and just discharge the stupid ****.

 

[Dral]

Do you mean to imply that those who took multiple attempts to get into medical school are less intelligent? It comes off that way a bit. I doubt you intended it, but something like that, as an example, could point to some underlying things that could be causing you to exhibit cues that are rubbing others the wrong way (which NaPD brought up).

It sounds like you genuinely want to get at the root cause of these issues you're having in your group. Commendable. However, again as NaPD pointed out, there could be things you are doing (likely unintentional based on your narrative) that could be somewhat off putting to others. That does not condone bad behaviors in others of course, but it's something to consider in the grand scheme of your group dynamic.

 

[deleted1139416]

I appreciate the level headed advice a lot, and I agree with you here. This was the main reason I posted because I try to be self aware that I naturally will be defensive of myself, and that might hinder me from growing as a person. Often times I'm unfair to myself in situations from overcorrecting my own behavior since I'm naturally a people pleaser, so all the criticism of my response as well as the support I've received has been good for me to think on.

I did ask this person what I could have done differently to make them not feel that way, and I didn't get any real answer to how I could change. I walked away thinking the only way I could be better at not making this person feel poorly (which I never want to do to anyone) is to just not risk saying/doing anything towards this person. Even if prompted for feedback I should keep my mouth shut and same for talking aloud to myself (which I am capable of doing, I have a habit of talking to myself and try to limit that when around others).

I also get the feeling some people are having the wrong idea in this thread about my question asking. I've been in med school for over a year now and never had this apparent personal issue of mine addressed before this past week with this person. I've actually been credited by a MS4 we had as our TA of this clinical group last year as being well prepared to discussions, having good engagement, participating well, and they encouraged me to help push my group to participate more themselves (maybe this is some insecurity on their parts because evidently they don't seem to come prepared, and I am VERY self aware about how much talking I do versus others. This is why I describe myself as shy/timid. If nobody else speaks up after a question is posed to us for 15 seconds or so, awkward silence with nobody else volunteering an answer to an open question, I answer it).

I also ask way less questions in medical school than I did in undergrad since there's less time, more students, more material, the material is less complicated and more straightforward (it's just a volume challenge) and I don't interrupt professors in the middle of a presentation. At worst I raise my hand patiently like we've all been conditioned to do, and if it disrupts the flow the professor acknowledges me with a nod, I wait for 1 minute or so for them to finish and they prompt me to ask my question.

I've never had any faculty indicate to me I ask annoying or not pertinent questions. Before this group mentioned I do this today (and they provided no clear examples of times I do this, just saying I do it in general sometimes to back up my apparently interrupting nature that this female classmate was claiming I have) I never would have thought I had a question asking problem. I usually ask permission too between clinic encounters so as not to interrupt workflow like, "I had a quick question, could you help me out when you're free?". I just want to clear up if my question asking is apparently actually excessive, because I'm not even the person who asks the most questions in our med school class (although I am in my smaller clinical group since most of them never ask questions or engage period). 95% of lectures I ask 0 questions. The remaining 5% I ask at most 3 questions, usually though only 1-2. They are brief and take 20 seconds to respond. When in a conversation with a attending/professor, or a small group discussion, I of course ask more questions usually, and I was relaying that at worst I may cut off someone (in conversation with the faculty member) 20 seconds into an explanation to just clarify what I was asking. That's the worst I can recall ever doing, but because the person didn't cite examples of my behaving this way, I just had to imagine what the worst expression of this behavior I could've exhibited is, and this was it.

I do also understand not everyone here as full context and you all are only hearing my side of the story. During candid 1-on-1 feedback periods I explicitly ask where can I improve, or I feel like I have ways to go developing my professionalism (because I come from a low SES background and feel out of my element a lot of times) but those faculty members state explicitly I have no professionalism issues, that if I did it would be made known to me, and I'm performing just as they expect me to for my level of training. When I hear my group members complaining of poor evaluations from our preceptors when my evals were good, I keep my mouth shut, but I have held my tongue numerous occasions where my group seem to disrespect our seniors and teachers by bad mouthing them for criticizing their performance as med students. I definitely think if I have any part to play in the situation it's because I observe loads of poor behavior from my group and I don't join in on it, don't laugh at the jokes I find off color, don't "vibe with them" as others have pointed out, and they further exclude me because I send off subconscious disapproving signals/body language. I was taught if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all, and I don't. When I see my group mates do well I compliment them, when I see them mess up I hold my tongue regularly, but apparently these 2 instances I was alone with this person, so nobody but her can back this up, my comments she seemed to request from me were "undermining her competence". This is why, because she failed to really explain how I could change, I assume my judgement of what is not kind to say is flawed for her, and I should not say/interact at all to avoid the risk of her feeling this way.

Lots to unpack here. I 100% agree with what advice others have given you. I just wanted to add a couple things for you to think about:

1) This isn’t high school. Just because a long pause has gone by and no one has answered the question, doesn’t mean they don’t want to. Usually people are just thinking about the answer.

2) Your faculty usually see you differently than your peers. Just because your faculty are saying you aren’t being unprofessional, doesn’t mean you aren’t rubbing your peers the wrong way.

The MOST important thing I can tell you, though, is that I am getting a very strong feeling that you care more about being right than being happy. Learning to get along with others is a life skill that everyone just has to learn in medicine, because medicine is a team sport. Getting along with patients, NPs, PAs, other doctors, etc, will make your life a million times easier. It requires a lot of self reflection and picking your battles and having a teamwork perspective.

 

[WashingtonR]

We had a group in my med school class that had to broken up after the first year. I think everyone was happier for it. Try to get moved to another group this year. If the problems persist with another group, then you'll need to do a lot of introspection and maybe find a therapist.

 

[George Lincoln]

Hoping for some clarity, feedback, and advice from some neutral 3rd parties here. Been having ongoing issues during my 1st year and they're sort of roaring to a head during my 2nd year.

Our school puts us in "clinical groups" with peers from our class, and we do lots of activities together during preclinical years (and I think maybe MS3/4 too but less). I've had an issue with my group almost from day 1, been patient with it but life stress and constantly just putting up with it has me where I've had enough. Basically I'm regularly ignored, my inputs and contributions very seldom credited to me, and there's been this underlying feeling of passive aggressiveness I've had pretty much for the whole past year.

I'm a pretty soft spoken guy, timid is my baseline. I also have to give myself credit (because I spent a lot of my 1st year questioning how intelligent I really was) that I'm fairly smart. I got into med school my first try, most of my group members did not (and no I never brought this up, they did talking about 3-4 cycles before they got in). I only bring this up because my group has made me feel stupid and they never trust what I say, I can recall a specific Anatomy Lab instance where I pointed out a structure and explained about it, it was correct and reasonable, but a group member commented "trust but verify" checking with the TA first. That by itself isn't strange, in general I'm the same, except that's a pattern of them never trusting my contributions, they don't do that to other members of the group, and even when I discuss 1-on-1 with someone after being blown off, and they say THE EXACT SAME THING it's praised, acknowledged, and I'm ignored.

It's been extremely frustrating, alienating, and I suppose I even feel gas lit at this point. There's one specific person in the group whose very extroverted, the "leader" of our group (communication liaison) and she's been super passive aggressive towards me since Basically day 1. I never really liked her very much from the start (looking back probably because how she treated me) and when I confronted her during a group meeting about this she did admit to being passive aggressive.

We had a big group meeting about this issue and I mostly just felt attacked and gas lit a bit like I've been the problem. I'm trying to assess things maturely, this girl whose been the "worst bully" of them all basically accused me of interrupting her constantly (I'm shy, quiet, the issue being discussed was me feeling ignored, by her in particular even, and I'm usually interrupted so I really didn't get this) but another group member who I get along with decently did say I at times interrupt professors and maybe it's subconscious. I can buy I might do that as far as questions go because I'm trying to learn and so I ask questions during lecture, during pauses and breaks in clinic activities, and may cut in if a professor is not answering my question correctly by clarifying what I was asking. I've never had anyone really tell me I have an interrupting issue before this. No staff/professors/attendings have ever said anything poor about my behavior. This is also the first time me interrupting has ever been brought up.

This girl also accused me of "intimidating" or trying to "make her look bad or unprepared" during patient encounters. This happened the 2 times we were by ourselves practicing physicals on patients apparently, where she never brought this up to me before, I never intentionally did that, and conveniently it's an instance where it is just my word against hers that I try to make her look bad. This is what really felt like things were just turned back on me and I was being gas lit for times when we are BOTH PRACTICING (this is a simulated encounter where we are both learning how to do the exam, I don't say anything in actual patient encounters) and me talking aloud to myself the next steps as she's doing the exam first, or me trying to be helpful and offering suggestions on ways I learned to do a technique as apparently me undermining her competence and trying to make her look unprepared?

I'm not very happy in this situation. I also don't want someone to feel intimidated by me, but also I feel so very wronged by the dynamic that I'm having a hard time feeling guilty about some subconscious interruptions, some apparent asserting of my dominance, and other nonsense that I really cannot perceive at all. I usually don't even like dealing with this girl since her outgoing personality and my shy personality don't mix at all.

Should I reach out to faculty about this? I'm thinking I should at least request me and this girl classmate aren't paired up anymore because if she really feels I do that it would be better for both of us, and I wouldn't have to risk this girl who seems to have it out for me making up something more absurd. What do y'all think I should do? Am I being bullied? Is this in my head? Should I request we not be paired, or even request changing to a different group altogether? In general the group do all ignore me, but there are a few privately who I'm on better terms with and they only seem to participate in this alienating me when we are as a group.

Thanks for advice, and I'm sorry for the long winded post! Never thought I'd have to deal with this.

Don’t let their burden be your burden. My whole practice career so many people have told me I’m doing the wrong thing, when in the longer view I’ve been the one who’s been right. I can say this because I’ve participated continuously in free clinics and free care for patients while at the same time acquiring a net worth nicely into eight figures. At the same time I was told I was a chump to participate in free care for the indigent and I was investing incorrectly. Most important my children saw how I conducted myself and that provided the leadership they needed in their lives as far as careers and relationships. Bottom line do the right thing and you never will regret it.

 

[buffdoc]

If you feel extremely frustrated, alienated, and gas-lit, then you are likely also suffering from some significant anxiety, and this can lead to depression and poor academic performance. For your benefit and future performance, I would highly recommend finding a counselor to talk to. I hope that your medical school offers some sort of emotional, behavioral official support that is confidential. It is better to get this solved sooner rather than later.

 

[Syndonium]

Quick update, this past week I met and spoke with some people from the school. It was nerve wracking but honestly very helpful especially as I was reassured about my options. The school has been really supportive of the situation and are being flexible with how things are handled.

They offered the options to completely separate us, change clinical groups, change whole community groups (since this student is the "leader" of our clinical group and also the representative for our student community group I'm in too) and they also reassured me on my biggest fears of retaliation from the student that they take it seriously and if retaliation were to happen it would be a professionalism issue that could get them dismissed. Essentially they promised short term they could make sure the situation gets better during medical school.

I decided with the school to take a wait and see approach for the next month until a follow up to give fair time for things to hopefully get better after our group talk. If need be next we decided to bring the other student in to discuss, with the school as a neutral party, what's going on and what can/needs to be done. I both didn't want anything bad to happen to this student and also didn't want to take drastic measures for fear of retaliation. We're taking a slow approach and I think I worry less about potential retaliation after the school expressed its intolerance to that, and that they monitor closely these things once it's been made known to ensure that doesn't happen.

Thank you for everyone's input. Thanks to people who encouraged me to come forward with someone at the school. I'm naturally conflict averse and probably would have just kept suffering through all this longer if the added stress of pregnancy didn't push me over an edge with frustration and have me more strongly express my feelings. I would encourage other people going through similar stuff to talk with someone about it. I'd been talking with my wife about the situation from the beginning a year ago, and she's been an amazing support, but the scary leap of talking with the school was, I think, a good choice. They can ensure things don't impede your academic performance, reassure you against things getting worse (that they'll followup to prevent that) and I'm really glad I spoke up about it.

Medical school really makes you question your sanity/intelligence/worth and for the first time I think I really struggled with imposter syndrome. Try your best to give yourself grace and also be an advocate for yourself. I apologize if I came across weird ways during this thread, I had just spent such a long time questioning whether I actually belonged in medical school that I needed to refocus on clear and objective stuff that proves I should be there. That if these folks making me feel like I shouldn't be there are here, and objectively I bring different things to the table, valuable things, I should be there too.

Thank you all for helping me be brave. If there are any other updates I'll post them but it feels like there's not much else to add to the thread now.

 

[mike-sheree]

This kind of chit will come up throughout your career. A classic example from my specialty (path) which all of us can relate to is our consultants. MANY of them feel that they just HAVE to tweak/ improve on your diagnosis. Mind you, this is after you signed out case with a group consensus of 7 other paths, most very highly experienced. Typically, the case is sent out because the patient is transferring to that facility. The case is typically not a diagnostic problem but the ivory tower just feels compelled to, in some way, “improve” on the pitiful diagnosis rendered by the LMD (local medical doctor). You learn to grin and bear it. After about 20 years it becomes like a game. One almost collapses if the consultant dx says “ we agree with you completely“!

 

[Redpancreas]

I'd been talking with my wife about the situation from the beginning a year ago.

Glad you have your spouse to talk to.

Thank you all for helping me be brave. If there are any other updates I'll post them but it feels like there's not much else to add to the thread now.

I don’t want to downplay your struggle but stuff will get worse, you will have to deal with way more difficult colleagues in more difficult situations. Just introspect on how you’ll handle that I suppose is all I’m saying. Perhaps your emotional battery will be more charged out of pregnancy too which may make a huge difference.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Most med schools are probably more similar to a high school experience than a college experience. Ie group me likes serving as a direct measure of somebody’s popularity, the strange need to let everybody know when/where/how much you’re going to be drinking, cringeworthy attempts to play things off as they’re no big deal etc.

 

[Redpancreas]

Most med schools are probably more similar to a high school experience than a college experience. Ie group me likes serving as a direct measure of somebody’s popularity, the strange need to let everybody know when/where/how much you’re going to be drinking, cringeworthy attempts to play things off as they’re no big deal etc.

I guess it depends on class size. Mine was very large and only a handful showed up to lectures. Not to gaslight OP, but during group sessions everyone was pretty chill and we didn’t really know each other all too much so there was very little drama and no memories were made. I guess where OP is coming is different. Maybe a small group with emphasis on TBL or something and there are class houses with people living together or something.

 

[Syndonium]

I thought you all deserved an update. I don't know how to handle all this. The problem I've come to discover was not with my clinical group at school. A warning to anyone who opens their heart and makes themselves vulnerable to another person: they can exploit that and turn you into someone you're not.

I have been in an emotionally abusive relationship in my marriage the past year, and that made me feel isolated. My classmates and I are in a better place now, but now I need therapy. Never have I been manipulated like this, I knew evil but now I've experienced it. I thought I was cautious not to be taken advantage of but was wrong.

If someone's acting out of character ask them what's wrong. Probe. Ask them why they're isolating themselves from their peers. I just couldn't see it for so long. I don't know why I'm updating this, I guess I just didn't want to leave things up in the air. Listen to your family when they have reservations about someone. Trust your gut. Don't give someone the benefit of the doubt especially when things don't actually change after talking about it. Sick with myself for not seeing it before.

 

[LunaOri]

I thought you all deserved an update. I don't know how to handle all this. The problem I've come to discover was not with my clinical group at school. A warning to anyone who opens their heart and makes themselves vulnerable to another person: they can exploit that and turn you into someone you're not.

I have been in an emotionally abusive relationship in my marriage the past year, and that made me feel isolated. My classmates and I are in a better place now, but now I need therapy. Never have I been manipulated like this, I knew evil but now I've experienced it. I thought I was cautious not to be taken advantage of but was wrong.

If someone's acting out of character ask them what's wrong. Probe. Ask them why they're isolating themselves from their peers. I just couldn't see it for so long. I don't know why I'm updating this, I guess I just didn't want to leave things up in the air. Listen to your family when they have reservations about someone. Trust your gut. Don't give someone the benefit of the doubt especially when things don't actually change after talking about it. Sick with myself for not seeing it before.

Are you okay?

 

[candbgirl]

I’m glad you updated and I’m glad things are better with your group. But it doesn’t sound like things are okay with you. Don’t be afraid of seeking help of whatever type you feel will help. Getting help doesn’t signify weakness. It shows you are smart enough to know you need it and you want to improve your life. Stay safe and well.

 

[caterwaiter]

This sounds *very much* like something you need to discuss with a counselor or a therapist.

 

[dienekes88]

It takes two to tango. It sounds like they're bullies. However, it also sounds like there are elements of your behavior that can be easily misinterpreted. Once a narrative has developed, it's hard to break it.

Little things like muttering to yourself may help you, but it won't be viewed favorably by your peers. Now that you now that. You should stop it.

I feel you. Because I too was grossly misunderstood throughout medical school and residency and got into plenty of trouble and attracted the wrath of more than my fair share of bullies.