Buprenorphine prescription
Started by vmol
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Until they are dead. After that, filling their prescriptions is strongly discouraged.
If dead people an vote they sure as heck are going to get their buprenophane fill on time
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In Ohio max daily dose is 16 mg by law and all men have to be on bupe with naloxone
That patient is probably getting just as high off of this
I am YET to see a doctor wean a patient off of this... EVER. They will be on it for life.
I would not have filled this in the first place.
That patient is probably getting just as high off of this
I am YET to see a doctor wean a patient off of this... EVER. They will be on it for life.
I would not have filled this in the first place.
In contrast, I have seen several patients wean completely off suboxone.
Weening off suboxone is a myth like serotonin syndrome and beta-blocker induced athma
I think Suboxone is OKAY if the dose is lowered every 2 weeks/month... but if the patient isn't dedicated they will run out early/complain to doctor and many doctors have no problem with the patient being on it for life anyways so will change back to old dose. Sadly nearly every person (actually I think is has been ever person) that I'v seen has been on max daily dose or even more.
This is how insane the Suboxone problem is. Where I'm from, we see don't see patients being tapered off Suboxone, but instead titrated up.
Only men? Subutex is only for females?
I can find references to subutex only being for pregnant females in Ohio, but can't find any actual laws, so I think it's just a practice standard that is enforced there. Anyone have a link to a legal statute?
I agree. Walmart's system brings up a red scary absolute contraindication with propranolol if there's any asthma meds on file. She filled a ventolin with Levo when she had pneumonia so I was just like whatever, skip.
The law just went into effect. No man can be on Subutex anymore. Max daily dose 16 mg for anyone. Must be off ALL other controlled substances of any sort within so many weeks after starting Suboxone (forget how many). Not sure if females have to be pregnant to be on Subutex or not. This is in Ohio.
Greatest law ever! A battle won against the never ending war with these pill heads who think they are entitled to unlimited subutex because it "saved their life"
Have you got a reference? It isn't that I don't believe you, I am just really interested and no matter what I search, this thread is the first thing to come up.
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http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/4731-11
I found the 16 mg rule (though it allows for grandfathered dosing and addictionologists to overrule it).
Still haven't found the female thing.
I'll search for a reference of it. I think it went into effect on May 1, 2015. I heard about all the rules from my PIC and I can assume he is correct based upon the prescriptions I have seen changed from Subutex to Suboxone/dose changes.
Ridiculous law, from a public health standpoint. I'd rather see someone dependent/addicted to Subutex then addicted to heroin.
Well the law doesn't prevent them from being on Suboxone... the law is designed so that the medication is used to suppress withdrawal rather than get high. I'd rather see this than patients being on Subutex or Methadone.
The only drawback is the price of Suboxone is higher.
That being said, I think the best route is for people to just detox cold turkey in rehab. No it's not fun and it takes months to get over the cravings but it's better than feeding an addiction for a lifetime.
I agree with you there, but if someone is not going to do that, I'd rather they have access to a standardized FDA approved drug, instead of injecting themselves with only God knows what and getting HIV & Hepatitis (which taxpayers will end up paying for their treatment for years to come.)
There used to be a lady who would come into the pharmacy to buy nicotine patches, she had been on them for years. Not an idea situation, but certainly healthier then if she had continued to smoke.
Do you know the difference between suboxone and subutex?
Yes. Short answer, one is much more likely to get "high" on subutex, than suboxone. I still stand by my answer, I think subutex will give a higher public health outcome, than off the street heroin. Again, not an ideal situation, the ideal is if people could go through a recovery program and not need any of the above. Realistically, there are people who can't/won't, I'd rather see them on subutex than heroin.
The difference isn't the likelihood of simply getting high. It is whether or not you can dissolve the product and use it intravenously. If you're anti-shared-needle-diseases you should want people on generic Suboxone tablets.
The Netherlands offers a free heroin program to keep addicts off the streets which seems to be working. The idea of maintaining someone on Subutex or Suboxone would be similar except without the addictive effects of heroin.
https://news.vice.com/article/only-...addicts-complain-about-free-government-heroin
Better to keep them on scheduled doses than having them die from a heroin overdose, or committing crimes so that they can get their next fix.
https://news.vice.com/article/only-...addicts-complain-about-free-government-heroin
Better to keep them on scheduled doses than having them die from a heroin overdose, or committing crimes so that they can get their next fix.
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Yeah, the reason they are off the street is because they can get high through the program. Giving somebody heroin to treat their heroin addiction is not treatment. And to suggest that Suboxone doesn't carry "addictive effects" is a complete joke.
Yeah, giving people clean needles and pharma grade heroin will keep them from overdosing and getting HIV but what does that accomplish? Nothing. They would be better off detoxing cold turkey in jail.
Except that while they might have detoxed, they are not necessarily no longer addicted (just not dependent). Those people leave jail only to seek out their dealer.
The netherlands are essentially admitting that no amount of "war on drugs" is going to fix the nature of these people. They must want to quit. Their system removes all of the other problems that come with the drug addict (crime, overdoses, etc.). In addition it takes the money out of the hands of drug dealers who are the real problem for society.
Except that doesn't work. Many people DO detox in jail, and as soon as they get out, they go right back to their addiction (and are at a higher risk of death, since their tolerance isn't the same as when they went to prison.) Maybe you don't care, but you can bet their families DO care. Keeping addicts from getting hepatitis and HIV keeps taxes and health care costs down. Keeping them alive means more of a chance that eventually they will want and see the value in getting clean.
Just because people care about something doesn't make it important or valuable. How many One Direction fans threatened suicide because a member left?
And there is literally zero chance that a heroin addict who gets free heroin and needles from the government will ever decide they should stop using heroin. Zero.
Google some of the stuff about the netherlands project. Some folks have actually quit off the program. Others are able to hold jobs.
You know that these people are usually uninsured so when they get HIV/Endocarditis/almost overdose you and I end up footing the bill. I bet needles and heroin would be cheaper.
I would also say that our ability to care does make things important or valuable. There is no special authority that lets anyone tell someone else that something isn't important. Certainly, human life is important no matter how messed up it is. I am all for any program that can reduce money to drug cartels, drug related crime, HIV transmission, and deaths due to abuse related overdose.
It's my belief that if a user chooses to use heroin the risks associated with it are not the problem of the tax payers, and any effort by the government to treat individual addicts should aim for non-dependence, not simply a reduction of risks for the user.
This is just my opinion.
This is just my opinion.
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Actually both subutex and suboxone can be used intravenously. The pills and the strips both can be. I have personally witnessed it. There isn't much difference between the two and if you think that people can't shoot up suboxone then you're fooling yourself. Addicts will find ways to do what they want to do. That being said suboxone/ subutex is a much more effective addiction tool/treatment than methadone. I have yet to see or hear of someone overdosing on buprenorphine, with or without naloxone. Also if you are on a regular dose of either of the two, and take it every day, it will not get you high. A person just starting on it may feel some effect at first but once their dose is stabilized and their body gets used to the medication it absolutely does not get them high.
If you take a weeks worth on Saturdays and abstain the rest of the week, you will get high.
That is completely false. What makes you think 8 mg or 16 mg of subutex is more potent or likely to get one high than 8 mg or 16 mg of suboxone? The naloxone does not stop the buprenorphine from getting a person high when they take it, what it does is knock the opiates off of the opiate receptors if one were to go and abuse some heroin or other opiate after taking or being on the suboxone.
No. The naloxone does nothing unless it is used IV.
For Naltrexone the "t" stands for tummy. That's how I always remembered how that one worked.
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So in Suboxone the naloxone has no effect if the drug is taken as directed because it is only available I.V.? The whole purpose is so that the drug cannot be injected, because in that case it would be effective?
In other words, when taken by mouth, there is no clinical difference between suboxone and subutex even at high doses? Suboxone would just not work to get high when injected while subutex would?
In other words, when taken by mouth, there is no clinical difference between suboxone and subutex even at high doses? Suboxone would just not work to get high when injected while subutex would?
Exactly.
