Burnout Question

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KeikoTanaka

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Today I attended a seminar on burnout. They talked about systemic changes that companies can make, small grass root movements physicians and other advanced providers can take to combat burnout - and ways to build resiliency and advocate for change etc etc.

I knew EM burnout was high before this talk, but once again it was re-emphasized in a chart they showed (#1 burnout specialty). As someone interested in EM, I want to ask:

Is the major contributor to EM burnout mostly from the administrative burden, or is there a large contribution due to the actual practicing of emergency medicine? Do you find joy in the "undifferentiated diagnosis" and solving it? Do you feel meaningful helping patients, despite short-term interactions? Do you enjoy the day-to-day tasks of reading labs, imaging, consulting other physicians to get to the bottom of the problem? Do you still get a rush of excitement discovering a novel thing?

Or, a follow-up question to this is: Do you feel the administrative burden is so heavy, it makes your actual practicing of medicine feel worse due to lack of autonomy?

I ask because in my mind, administration is "fluid", and therefore in 8 years when I get into practice, the administrative landscape can be different. However, the actual practice of EM in 8 years should be relatively the same in my mind (albeit technological advances).

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Is the major contributor to EM burnout mostly from the administrative burden, or is there a large contribution due to the actual practicing of emergency medicine?

Burnout in EM to me has less to do with administrative burden or the actual practice of medicine, and more to do with shift work and circadian rhythm changes, constant interuptions, dealing with difficult consultants, and dealing with uncertainty. EM is easy when someone comes in with a defined problem with a defined answer. Its tough when everything is a shade of grey and you have to make decisions with incomplete information that has consequences if you make the wrong decision. RLQ pain in someone 22 weeks pregnant... CT imaging is probably ok but patients often are terrified of the radiation to their baby. US never ever gives a definitive answer. Surgery won't take the patient without a firm diagnosis of appendicitis. OB doesn't want anything to do with the patient until appy is ruled out. And missed appy in pregnancy has a ridiculously high maternal and fetal mortality. Sounds easy, just CT them (or MRI if you have it available). But then you wind up having to CT tons of pregnant women looking for the occasional appendicitis. It's grey area decisions like this, multiplied 20 times a shift, that make the job stressful. There are many many simple cases, but I'd say the majority of cases I see aren't "textbook' cases.

Do you find joy in the "undifferentiated diagnosis" and solving it?

Absolutely.

Do you feel meaningful helping patients, despite short-term interactions?

Depends on the patients. Those that are thankful and respectful, I absolutely find meaning in helping them. The ones that argue with you know matter what, violent, or disrespectful? I could do without that.

Do you enjoy the day-to-day tasks of reading labs, imaging, consulting other physicians to get to the bottom of the problem?

I enjoy working things up and looking at studies. Dealing with consultants is one of the worst parts of the job. Many physicians are not nice to one another, and are crazy judgmental.

Do you still get a rush of excitement discovering a novel thing?

Absolutely

Or, a follow-up question to this is: Do you feel the administrative burden is so heavy, it makes your actual practicing of medicine feel worse due to lack of autonomy?

The administrative burden isn't that bad. Its mainly placing orders and charting. There's no dealing with preauthorization or insurance companies, etc.

So in summary, I think the burnout comes down mainly to circadian rhythm disruption, constant interruption in a fast paced environment, dealing with consultants, and constantly dealing with uncertainty in many if not most of the decisions you make with incomplete information, knowing you will be wrong many many times in your career.
 
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Burnout in EM to me has less to do with administrative burden or the actual practice of medicine, and more to do with shift work and circadian rhythm changes, constant interuptions, dealing with difficult consultants, and dealing with uncertainty. EM is easy when someone comes in with a defined problem with a defined answer. Its tough when everything is a shade of grey and you have to make decisions with incomplete information that has consequences if you make the wrong decision. RLQ pain in someone 22 weeks pregnant... CT imaging is probably ok but patients often are terrified of the radiation to their baby. US never ever gives a definitive answer. Surgery won't take the patient without a firm diagnosis of appendicitis. OB doesn't want anything to do with the patient until appy is ruled out. And missed appy in pregnancy has a ridiculously high maternal and fetal mortality. Sounds easy, just CT them (or MRI if you have it available). But then you wind up having to CT tons of pregnant women looking for the occasional appendicitis. It's grey area decisions like this, multiplied 20 times a shift, that make the job stressful. There are many many simple cases, but I'd say the majority of cases I see aren't "textbook' cases.



Absolutely.



Depends on the patients. Those that are thankful and respectful, I absolutely find meaning in helping them. The ones that argue with you know matter what, violent, or disrespectful? I could do without that.



I enjoy working things up and looking at studies. Dealing with consultants is one of the worst parts of the job. Many physicians are not nice to one another, and are crazy judgmental.



Absolutely



The administrative burden isn't that bad. Its mainly placing orders and charting. There's no dealing with preauthorization or insurance companies, etc.

So in summary, I think the burnout comes down mainly to circadian rhythm disruption, constant interruption in a fast paced environment, dealing with consultants, and constantly dealing with uncertainty in many if not most of the decisions you make with incomplete information, knowing you will be wrong many many times in your career.

Thanks for your response. I'd have thought it was going to be more on the administrative side that the stress comes in. Are there ways to enhance or schedule yourself in terms of availability that can somewhat diminish the amount of nights - even if this comes at the cost of salary?

I am glad to know that still you enjoy the practice of the medicine portion of it - that's encouraging nonetheless
 
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Very good points by gamer

It's multifactorial and exists to a certain degree in all medical fields.

I find that this notion that the ER is the "last place I can go for help, I can't go nowhere else" gets very tiresome, very quickly. You can't turn them away (I suppose you could literally, but they will come back and park their behinds in the ED) and there isn't much to do for these folks and they just linger in one way or another, get signed out from one ER doc to another, and just fester like a bad cough that won't go away for 4 weeks.

It also gets very tiresome being forced to help people who really don't want to help themselves. They don't do what doctors want them to do, they don't take their medicines, they are chronically ill. They eat Popeye's everyday which is causing their abdominal pain, but they won't tell you that. They sometimes come in sick with a cheap COPD exacerabtion that you can admit, but often come in with terrible abdominal pain NOS, dizziness, obtunded, mild LOC, psychotic, hyperglycemic, and a variety of other problems that NOBODY will ever fix because the patient never wants to help themselves. It's a real drain telling them "no...sorry...", ..., "nope...won't do that", ..., " sorry no drugs this time" and they don't leave and put up a fuss and call the administrator-on-call from their room. It's so tiresome and burdensome to take care of them.

It's one thing if you have that 1-2 times a shift, imagine if you have it 6-10 times a shift.

Shiftwork gets to ya. I'll say re: nights though....at the end of the day they are not that bad. You don't have services available to ya during the night (like social services, case management, welfare, discharge planning) and often you are signing out stuff like "patient needs x and y" when they come in the morning.
 
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Gamer has made excellent points. I agree with all of them. A few other things that I think also contribute to burn out are the patients themselves. A large number of patients in the ER come in with ridiculous expectations, some are disrespectful, some non compliant, some are yelling at you when you say no to more opoids.

There is also volume pressures. The ER is a very busy place usually. There is often no time to pee or get food. Other specialties operate at a very different pace. Our specially can turn into a mad house. You could be in a single coverage ER with all 14 beds full, a couple of hallway beds and some patients in the waiting room and then a code blue could come in that will take 30 minutes at least. While I am decent at multi tasking and handling multiple patients, it is stressful at times. Patients don't make appointments, you can have large boluses at the same time which in my opinion aDD to the stress levels at the job.

To avoid circadian rhythm shifts you can find a place with dedicated nocturnists which will limit your night shifts. I'm personally going to be a dedicated nocturnist because I want one consistent schedule.

Also I thought hospitalists were the most burned out and the newer data was showing that EM doctors weren't the most burned out specialty
 
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Have you guys worked in rural vs urban vs suburban EDs? If so, can you speak as to how the patient load, patient demographics, and contributors to stressors are different?

I'm definitely getting the hours and patients to be the main contributors of burnout in the ED - which is actually different than I thought it'd be - It must be all the other specialties who are fed up with administration more!
 
Have you guys worked in rural vs urban vs suburban EDs? If so, can you speak as to how the patient load, patient demographics, and contributors to stressors are different?

I'm definitely getting the hours and patients to be the main contributors of burnout in the ED - which is actually different than I thought it'd be - It must be all the other specialties who are fed up with administration more!

No. Most specialties are tired of patients and paperwork. I don't think you see administrators on a day to day basis. You just go about your day seeing ungrateful, mean, non compliant patients .Jk it's not that bad.

I LOVE rural ERs, one of the places I moonlight at, it pays less, 130/hr. But I see 7-10 patients in 24 hours. It's always so relaxing. Doesn't even feel like I'm working when I see that volume. I go home well slept after a shift. Getting paid to sleep makes me pretty happy when I get home.
 
Such a great synopsis of the patient related factors above. Agree with all.

Personally, the medicine is easy. Even when faced with a tough clinical decision - I think about it for a few seconds, weigh options, make a decision and commit, knowing that I won't be right all of the time, but also knowing that I did the best I could with the information I had.

It's awesome to help out a patient with a legitimate need and for them to thank you after you solve their problem. I can't emphasize this enough.

One major point I want to make: This whole thing about building physician "resiliency" is nonsense and basically amounts to victim shaming. People who become physicians are resilient by definition. We don't work our a** off in college, take the MCAT, work through medical school even harder, prepare for and take USMLE Steps 1 - 9 billion, succeed in residency, not see family and friends during weekends / holidays / special events, to all of a sudden lose our "resiliency" when we become attendings. That's total BS. The systems factors below contribute greatly - they are generalities:

Nursing:
-Can't get IV access and no buy in to learning ultrasound
-Constant interruptions to transmit mostly useless information, yet sometimes omissions of very important information
-Can't manage to give the patient clinical updates - thus, another interruption
-Questioning of orders or your clinical approach citing their "discomfort" - which usually means "I am not up to date on the evidence because I haven't read anything in 15 years"

Administration:
-Institute policies regardless of feedback from the front line physicians who have to deal with this.
-Rarely genuinely solicit feedback - in more than a year of working at one location, have never been approached by hosp admin about anything, not even a hello - they probably couldn't distinguish me from a tech or a pharmacist or a nurse - perhaps a good thing
-Lack of knowledge / caring about ED operations - would actually very much enjoy to have them "shadow" me around for a day to show them "our world"

EMS:
-Often very poor management of acutely ill patients (in my area of practice)
-Give presentations at hand off that can incorrectly bias your diagnostic pathways

Environment:
-The sheer loudness of the place
-Lack of supplies
-Lack of working equipment

Systems can be changed. Humans made the system and can improve it. Usually involves $$$ and ruffling feathers which is the major rate limiting step.
 
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Excellent points!

To answer the question about night shifts, yes you may find a group with nocturnists that will limit your nights, but honestly, its not the nights as much as the constantly changing times of your shifts. Also, I find afternoon shifts to be way worse than night shifts. Wake up at 9am, work out, shower, go to work, come home, take 2 hrs to fall asleep, do the same thing again the next day. Your entire day is gone.

I'm a nocturnist though. I prefer one consistent schedule, and I'd rather work overnight than midafternoon anyday.
 
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Such a great synopsis of the patient related factors above. Agree with all.

Personally, the medicine is easy. Even when faced with a tough clinical decision - I think about it for a few seconds, weigh options, make a decision and commit, knowing that I won't be right all of the time, but also knowing that I did the best I could with the information I had.

It's awesome to help out a patient with a legitimate need and for them to thank you after you solve their problem. I can't emphasize this enough.

One major point I want to make: This whole thing about building physician "resiliency" is nonsense and basically amounts to victim shaming. People who become physicians are resilient by definition. We don't work our a** off in college, take the MCAT, work through medical school even harder, prepare for and take USMLE Steps 1 - 9 billion, succeed in residency, not see family and friends during weekends / holidays / special events, to all of a sudden lose our "resiliency" when we become attendings. That's total BS. The systems factors below contribute greatly - they are generalities:

Nursing:
-Can't get IV access and no buy in to learning ultrasound
-Constant interruptions to transmit mostly useless information, yet sometimes omissions of very important information
-Can't manage to give the patient clinical updates - thus, another interruption
-Questioning of orders or your clinical approach citing their "discomfort" - which usually means "I am not up to date on the evidence because I haven't read anything in 15 years"

Administration:
-Institute policies regardless of feedback from the front line physicians who have to deal with this.
-Rarely genuinely solicit feedback - in more than a year of working at one location, have never been approached by hosp admin about anything, not even a hello - they probably couldn't distinguish me from a tech or a pharmacist or a nurse - perhaps a good thing
-Lack of knowledge / caring about ED operations - would actually very much enjoy to have them "shadow" me around for a day to show them "our world"

EMS:
-Often very poor management of acutely ill patients (in my area of practice)
-Give presentations at hand off that can incorrectly bias your diagnostic pathways

Environment:
-The sheer loudness of the place
-Lack of supplies
-Lack of working equipment

Systems can be changed. Humans made the system and can improve it. Usually involves $$$ and ruffling feathers which is the major rate limiting step.

Yes, this is actually what was emphasized: We are resilient people, and we need the system to change, we don't need to change (necessarily). However, one of the big subjects during this talk was Physician/Medical Student/Resident suicide. So when they said resiliency - they meant in terms of understanding and being able to identify certain things in yourself and others and knowing when to cut back or seek help.

The woman who lead the talk was a Psychiatric Residency Director and she was stating how she is making drastic systemic changes to better meet the needs of residents to prevent burnout. She is very "Woke" to the subject. However, she said how many things are happening to try and change the system, but these things won't take affect or be noticeable for ~10 more years. So, she was discussing strategies to make more meaningful workplace relations and create "Resiliency" in your own life and workplace because you shouldn't have to wait ~10 years for other people to make changes. It was very multifactorial and interesting!

I appreciate your input on the matter of other stressors in the ED from the inter-professional aspect of it as well.
 
A lot of the frustration comes from the constant interruptions and trying to understand the patients.

You will get interrupted hundreds of times per shift, it will cause you to lose your train of thought, and sometimes forget something. The tech needs you to review an EKG from a pt in triage, nurse tells you bed 3 wants more pain meds, bed 6 is vomiting again, family of pt in bed 2 showed up and they want to ask you some questions, you notice the preg test on bed 5 has been pending for 3 hours and she still hasn’t gone to CT, the nurse tells you that the 19y/o with an ankle sprain that you just discharged is now saying she has chest pain, the internist calls back hours later and says they no longer admit for Dr. X, the labs hemolize and no one notifies you, nurse asks if bed 1 can have a sandwich while waiting for a CT to rule out an apply, the biPAP pt keeps pulling his mask off, bed 7 wants to know when you’re going to come back in, I need to use the bathroom and I know my consult will call back as soon as I do, bed 7 called administration because they are tired of waiting, the admitting doc forgot to order the pt BP meds, you forgot to order that brain MRI b/c you were distracted and now the MRI tech went home for the night, etc.

The frustration from patients stems from them very little medical insight and a worsening ability to make logical decisions. My COPD is acting up, but I still smoke a pack per day, my kid has asthma, but I go outside to smoke, I didn’t feel like going to dialysis today, I googled the symptoms..., my doctor couldn’t see me for 3 days, she hasn’t been able to move her left side for 2 days and we just figured it was one of her spells, I started having chest pain after numerous stents and just wanted to see if it got better, etc.
 
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Such a great synopsis of the patient related factors above. Agree with all.

Personally, the medicine is easy. Even when faced with a tough clinical decision - I think about it for a few seconds, weigh options, make a decision and commit, knowing that I won't be right all of the time, but also knowing that I did the best I could with the information I had.

It's awesome to help out a patient with a legitimate need and for them to thank you after you solve their problem. I can't emphasize this enough.

One major point I want to make: This whole thing about building physician "resiliency" is nonsense and basically amounts to victim shaming. People who become physicians are resilient by definition. We don't work our a** off in college, take the MCAT, work through medical school even harder, prepare for and take USMLE Steps 1 - 9 billion, succeed in residency, not see family and friends during weekends / holidays / special events, to all of a sudden lose our "resiliency" when we become attendings. That's total BS. The systems factors below contribute greatly - they are generalities:

Nursing:
-Can't get IV access and no buy in to learning ultrasound
-Constant interruptions to transmit mostly useless information, yet sometimes omissions of very important information
-Can't manage to give the patient clinical updates - thus, another interruption
-Questioning of orders or your clinical approach citing their "discomfort" - which usually means "I am not up to date on the evidence because I haven't read anything in 15 years"

Administration:
-Institute policies regardless of feedback from the front line physicians who have to deal with this.
-Rarely genuinely solicit feedback - in more than a year of working at one location, have never been approached by hosp admin about anything, not even a hello - they probably couldn't distinguish me from a tech or a pharmacist or a nurse - perhaps a good thing
-Lack of knowledge / caring about ED operations - would actually very much enjoy to have them "shadow" me around for a day to show them "our world"

EMS:
-Often very poor management of acutely ill patients (in my area of practice)
-Give presentations at hand off that can incorrectly bias your diagnostic pathways

Environment:
-The sheer loudness of the place
-Lack of supplies
-Lack of working equipment

Systems can be changed. Humans made the system and can improve it. Usually involves $$$ and ruffling feathers which is the major rate limiting step.

This is one of the most well written summaries on all of the key points that contribute to burnout, at least for my day to day interactions. Gamerdoc in his original post also made some excellent points. I worked in the ER as a Scribe for 2 years and felt as though I had a good idea of what I was getting myself into when I applied for EM residency. I saw first hand what EM physicians went through, and would often see how displeased they were, or hear them mumble some things under their breath after some soul sucking patient interactions and burdens placed on them from admin. Most medical students without some EM experience unfortunately don't experience this, and often have 2-3 months of rotations in which they inherently gravitate towards the glamorous and fun stuff (resus, procedures, codes) without getting an appreciation for 1) difficult consultants 2) difficult family members 3) difficult patients with unrealistic expectations 4) constant interruptions by nursing staff, etc. etc. because these things become more evident when you actually practice medicine as a resident/attending.

Now, I am a resident, so I have a limited experience in terms of going to admin meetings unlike some of the attendings above. I will say though that as a whole, what I feel contributes to a lot of the burnout is unrealistic expectations by both ungrateful, rude, and abrasive patients mixed with systemic pressures by admin/staff which include but are not limited to seeing more patients, at a faster pace, with zero room for error, while offering excellent "customer" service, as if the ED is a restaurant or a hotel.

At some point something has to give. It is very difficult to work very fast, to be perfect clinically so to speak and have zero "misses" (unrealistic expectation altogether), while at the same keeping everyone in the department happy which includes all of the nurses, families and patients. Now, add angry consultants who will fight you tooth and nail to do what is in best interest of the patient, during a busy 12 hour shift, where you have 2-3 patients on your hands that are very sick and need your immediate attention more so than the guy who has been constipated for 6 months whose wife wants to talk to you for the third time, all while not having had anything to eat during your shift and haven't had a chance to pee, and you can see why most of us are frustrated.

It is even worse in residency because some of the nurses think that you are just a resident and that they know more than you and will constantly question your orders, as mentioned above. "why does this patient need blood cultures and a lactate?" because they are tachycardic and tachypneic but when their WBC comes back at 18K and their COPD exacerbation is actually a RLL pneumonia, the hospitalist is going to want to know why I didn't get cultures and a lactate on a patient with 3/4 SIRS criteria who I am admitting for pneumonia. Or, the other day, I was admitted a patient with RUQ pain who had a hedgy US read which showed stones, some sludge, and gallbladder wall thickness with continued pain but no fever, no WBC, and a negative sonographic Murphy's. I ended up admitting for a HIDA scan but the nurse asked me why I was not addressing the patients pain and not giving her morphine. She said, you know "I think you are under treating her pain" and you're doing this alot of with my patients. Instead of asking me why I didn't give her morphine, or bothering to look up that morphine can affect the result of a HIDA scan, which she did not even know what that was - and failing to understand that our surgeons have meltdowns if these patients get morphine prior to their HIDA scans, she just questioned my judgement and asked me why I "don't address pain". I have hundreds of examples like this but you get the point.

I have found that the most meaningful interactions come from appreciate patients who are just pleasant to talk to. The past week I had two patients with metastatic cancer who prior to their visit for intractable pain were taking Tylenol or NSAIDs. One lady found out her CA had spread to her liver 3 weeks ago and had turned so jaundice, and was in so much pain that she couldn't sleep. I gave her two doses of dilaudid, she held my hand and thanked me, and she was seen by the hospice team and went home on home hospice. Both she and her husband thanked me and were so grateful. Its these kind of interactions, which are few and far in between, that keep me going and make me feel like I am making a difference.
 
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In addition to everything said on this threat so far, I think burnout also stems from a lack of professional growth after the first few years as an attending and significantly less autonomy than we thought we would have. Not to mention being told what to do by non-MDs.
 
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When the canary in the coal mine dies, the solution is not to find a more resilient canary...




(I wish I could take credit for that, but I can't. But it's absolutely true.)
 
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How honest and short can you be with patients?

I understand "Quality controls" are in place and people can complain - but how will this impact you?

"I think you're over-exaggerating your pain as you have been here 10 times in the last 2 months seeking drugs and I will not provide narcotics for you anymore" - You'd get "complained" about - but can you be hurt by this type of mindset and practice and honesty?
 
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How honest and short can you be with patients?

I understand "Quality controls" are in place and people can complain - but how will this impact you?

"I think you're over-exaggerating your pain as you have been here 10 times in the last 2 months seeking drugs and I will not provide narcotics for you anymore" - You'd get "complained" about - but can you be hurt by this type of mindset and practice and honesty?

I think it was Veers that said it first, but it bears repeating:

"The biggest threat to my job security isn't malpractice; it's patient complaints."

I also frequently say this on here:

"The number one source of burnout is the patient."
 
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I think it was Veers that said it first, but it bears repeating:

"The biggest threat to my job security isn't malpractice; it's patient complaints."

I also frequently say this on here:

"The number one source of burnout is the patient."

But lets say hypothetically you get more complaints than other physicians - but you don't miss anything, you use the ED resources effectively, and you're actually super nice in every other interaction - will you just lose your job? Even if you've done nothing medically wrong?
 
But lets say hypothetically you get more complaints than other physicians - but you don't miss anything, you use the ED resources effectively, and you're actually super nice in every other interaction - will you just lose your job? Even if you've done nothing medically wrong?

This completely depends on the individual, the circumstances, prior "offenses" so to speak, and who you work for (democratic group vs CMG)
 
Gamer has made excellent points. I agree with all of them. A few other things that I think also contribute to burn out are the patients themselves. A large number of patients in the ER come in with ridiculous expectations, some are disrespectful, some non compliant, some are yelling at you when you say no to more opoids.

There is also volume pressures. The ER is a very busy place usually. There is often no time to pee or get food. Other specialties operate at a very different pace. Our specially can turn into a mad house. You could be in a single coverage ER with all 14 beds full, a couple of hallway beds and some patients in the waiting room and then a code blue could come in that will take 30 minutes at least. While I am decent at multi tasking and handling multiple patients, it is stressful at times. Patients don't make appointments, you can have large boluses at the same time which in my opinion aDD to the stress levels at the job.

To avoid circadian rhythm shifts you can find a place with dedicated nocturnists which will limit your night shifts. I'm personally going to be a dedicated nocturnist because I want one consistent schedule.

Also I thought hospitalists were the most burned out and the newer data was showing that EM doctors weren't the most burned out specialty
Nothing like rural single coverage and hearing the radio chatter for 8 people involved in a head on collision amirite?
 
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But lets say hypothetically you get more complaints than other physicians - but you don't miss anything, you use the ED resources effectively, and you're actually super nice in every other interaction - will you just lose your job? Even if you've done nothing medically wrong?

It's generally pretty hard to get fired. Most places the medical director deals with patient complains and they are ER doctors who filter out the bull. At least that's what you hope your medical director will do.

You usually have to be absolutely terrible to get fired. The only person I've seen get fired (miss like offered to resign) is someone who didn't see at least 50-60 percent of the patients that were staffed with the resident because she was busy shopping online during the shift :)
 
It's generally pretty hard to get fired. Most places the medical director deals with patient complains and they are ER doctors who filter out the bull. At least that's what you hope your medical director will do.

You usually have to be absolutely terrible to get fired. The only person I've seen get fired (miss like offered to resign) is someone who didn't see at least 50-60 percent of the patients that were staffed with the resident because she was busy shopping online during the shift :)

This is re-assuring. I'm a very blunt person, but also sarcastic and funny, so I typically "tell it how it is" but people don't get offended because they see that twinkle in my eye (I think its the sassy gay in me). But so I'd love to see how this personality type meshes in with the problematic patients - they'll probably hate me haha. I haven't really had a chance yet to even be in that situation so we'll see in a couple years on rotations! And obviously I know how to read a room so I'll know when its appropriate. Older patients always love me.
 
You're over thinking this. Relax, enjoy life. You haven't even started your rotations yet. You have plenty of time to figure things out.
 
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Finally! Excitement!! But you forgot about the moose involved. I hope the moose is okay.
Issues faced:
Getting your current ED patient who is too sick to stay transferred to a higher level of care to free up a) you, b) your nurse(s), c) your bed. But now you definitely don't have a crew available to transfer them (they're all out retrieving your patient bolus).

You have one nurse. The house supervisor will walk over to help and maybe an OB nurse of they're not busy, but they may or may not really do IVs or trauma.

You only have 5 beds and 2 are occupied. You can overflow into the pre-op area.

You can only see one at a time. They're all tachycardic on arrival.

Your imaging tech is on the way from home. Who do you want pictures on and in what order?

Did the medics mistriage someone who should have bypassed you for the trauma center? Maybe, it was a chaotic seen and they had a lot to do. They had to double up in the ambulances.
 
How honest and short can you be with patients?

I understand "Quality controls" are in place and people can complain - but how will this impact you?

"I think you're over-exaggerating your pain as you have been here 10 times in the last 2 months seeking drugs and I will not provide narcotics for you anymore" - You'd get "complained" about - but can you be hurt by this type of mindset and practice and honesty?

I’ve said that before up above. Those patients who have been there 10 times in 2 months are not the problem, even if they write complaint letters.
 
As someone who left EM after a decade at age 39, I'll try to answer your questions as best I can. And I'll preface that with saying that if anyone tries to tell you EM isn't burnout inducing or that the solutions are easy, they either are lying to you, lying to themselves or have no idea what they're talking about.

Is the major contributor to EM burnout mostly from the administrative burden, or is there a large contribution due to the actual practicing of emergency medicine?
The major contributor to EM burnout (for me) is the shift work circadian rhythm disruption that often leads to a chronic, low grade dysthymia and dysphoria (or worse). What makes this worse, is that many around you (EM residents, attendings, EM leaders/recruiters) will try to tell you you're imagining it, perhaps out of their own denial (self preservation) or self serving reasons (career preservation). The administrative interference is mainly salt in a bad wound. The salt on the wounds is bad enough, insulting, galling, but it's not the 1,000 paper cuts themselves.


Do you find joy in the "undifferentiated diagnosis" and solving it?
I like both, but this question is irrelevant to burnout. Whether you find joy in diagnosis or solving problems has no bearing on whether or not you chronically feel like dysphoric doing so, due to having to constantly force something that's inherently against your biology, which is to ignore your circadian rhythms. I tried to tell myself I could. I lied to myself. It remained a chronic nagging weight on my mood, energy level and not only while at work, it bled into nearly every off day not at work. In other words, "In EM, when you're off, you're off" is BS.

If you're having difficulty what this all means or relating to it, think of jet lag. To choose a lifetime of work in EM, is to choose to be feel at least a little (sometimes tremendously) jet lagged, the majority of your waking hours, for the next 30 years or until you leave EM.

Do you feel meaningful helping patients, despite short-term interactions?
Yes, but again irrelevant to burnout. It would be more appropriate to ask, 'Does the meaningfulness of quickly and efficiently drain a gluteus maximus abscess on a diabetic at 3 am outweigh missing your favorite holiday when you could have picked a line of work where you did the same thing at 3 pm on a Tuesday? Does it outweigh the fact that you felt dysphoric for the first 72 hours of your vacation which included your favorite person in the world's birthday?' That's what you should be asking.

Do you enjoy the day-to-day tasks of reading labs, imaging, consulting other physicians to get to the bottom of the problem?
Again. Sure, all that stuff is great. But do you really need to do all that on your favorite human beings' birthdays? Do you need to do all that at 4 am on Christmas/Ramadan/Hanukka/insert-favorite-holiday-birthday-life-event? Do you need to do all that without having slept? Do you need to do all that at midnight New Year's Eve? Do you need to do all that while feeling dysphoric and jet lagged all the time, or is it good enough to do it while feeling refreshed and rested, alway all the time, while doing something else?

Do you still get a rush of excitement discovering a novel thing?
Nope. Nobody gets a "rush" discovering 'novel things' they've worked long enough to discover before, and when what was novel when you choose their specialty, is now routine. Sure, satisfaction can come from an interesting case, but a 'rush'? No. That sort of initial high doesn't last with drugs and it doesn't last with EM. It only gets you hooked.


Or, a follow-up question to this is: Do you feel the administrative burden is so heavy, it makes your actual practicing of medicine feel worse due to lack of autonomy?
The administrative burden is heavy in all of Medicine. It's most heavy handed in hospital based settings, which makes it worse in EM than it is in some other settings.

I ask because in my mind, administration is "fluid", and therefore in 8 years when I get into practice, the administrative landscape can be different. However, the actual practice of EM in 8 years should be relatively the same in my mind (albeit technological advances).
Currently, and despite our complaining as physicians, no one in healthcare with any power to change anything is talking about lessening "administrative burden." Lessening the burden, is literally not a thing.

But I agree, the practice of EM is extremely similar in different times and locations. It's like nothing else, but EM is EM no matter when or where you find it. And certain things about it will never change, particularly the 24 hr nature of it, and it's effect on one's circadian rhythms. Just remember: Jet lag, all the time, nearly every day for the rest of your working life. If that is not, and never will be an issue for you, then EM might be for you. If that's an issue for you, consider something that allows you to live a normal life. I say this as someone who thought, at age 26 when I chose my specialty, that it would not be an issue for me. Then life happened and I realized I was stuck in a bind countless people warned me about, that I chose to ignore. Now that I've done a fellowship and have a normal life, and EM shift work is an option and no longer a requirement, I'm much happier. If you want to have a normal life, don't do EM. If you do EM, absofrickinlutely make sure you have a pre-planned, well thought out, iron-clad exit plan in place at the time of residency completion that allows you to get out of most or all of the shift work very easily at any point in your career. Some of the EM fellowships allow this, some don't and putting such a plan in place is easier said than done.

EM never changes. But we do.
 
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One thing that I've found really helpful in combating circadian rhythm shifts is the ability to stack shifts. Because I travel, i am able to work a handful of nights in a row rather than sporadic nights here and there.

Night shifts have actually grown on me a bit. Even if it's busy in the department, it's just...quieter. Less admin trolling around, less white coat wearing nurses bothering me about sepsis or stroke nonsense. I am considering becoming a nocturnist when I'm done traveling to bargain for more schedule flexibility and stacking of shifts.
 
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This is re-assuring. I'm a very blunt person, but also sarcastic and funny, so I typically "tell it how it is" but people don't get offended because they see that twinkle in my eye (I think its the sassy gay in me). But so I'd love to see how this personality type meshes in with the problematic patients - they'll probably hate me haha. I haven't really had a chance yet to even be in that situation so we'll see in a couple years on rotations! And obviously I know how to read a room so I'll know when its appropriate. Older patients always love me.
If you're professional and treat people with respect, you don't have to worry about getting fired over patient satisfaction scores. Since we deal with the public, everyone will get some bad ones and they can't fire everyone. So, getting a bad review, means nothing. Consistently getting way more than everyone else in your group, could turn in to something. It's hard to do that, without being a total jerk unnecessarily to patients. I have seen docs act that way because they were chronically emotionally exhausted (i.e. 'burned out') though.

I've worked with dozens of other EM physicians and I've never known anyone to get fired over patient sat scores individually, although I'm sure it's happened. I definitely have read reports of groups losing their ED contract over sat scores as a whole and this is a form of being fired, I suppose. Most often though, loss of contract is about money (i.e. the hospital making more and the ED docs making less) and not over a single physician's patient sat scores. I honestly think hospitals use "patient sat scores" as an excuse to do what they were otherwise going to do anyways and I'm 100% convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that if they thought bad patient sat scores lead to greater profits for them, they'd be insisting upon them. In their MBA trained minds "happy customers = higher profits" and I don't think they can see very far past that. When you start to talk to them about what's "medically right" it's like you're speaking Martian to them and they just tune out, disinterested.
 
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If you're professional and treat people with respect, you don't have to worry about getting fired over patient satisfaction scores. Since we deal with the public, everyone will get some bad ones and they can't fire everyone. So, getting a bad review, means nothing. Consistently getting way more than everyone else in your group, could turn in to something. It's hard to do that, without being a total jerk unnecessarily to patients. I have seen docs do it because they were chronically emotionally exhausted (i.e. 'burned out') though.

"Patient satisfaction scores" reminds me of the old story about a group of hikers who are attacked by a bear: you don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to be able to outrun one of the other hikers. As long as you are not clearly and significantly below your peers, you do not have anything to worry about. As mentioned, these scores can be a "smokescreen" for replacing a group, but the group would be replaced even if they had perfect scores.

Burnout is a bit like depression; in fact they are probably clearly linked. While there are a number of factors that can precipitate and exacerbate depression, there is still rarely a direct "cause and effect" relationship. The same thing with burnout: it is possible to point to a number of factors, and they probably play a role, but it is still just burnout. When it hits, it hits.

The best defense I have found for burnout is freedom: once you reach the point where you do not have to work a shift, it all suddenly becomes much easier. I think I have used the analogy of mowing the lawn as an example. As a kid, I absolutely hated it, because it was forced on me. Now, mowing the lawn is one of the pleasures in my life. Why? Because I could just as easily pay the neighbor kid to do it for me. (Sitting on a John Deere tractor doesn't hurt.) Freedom is magical. The more you can say "no", the happier you will be.
 
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As someone who left EM after a decade at age 39, I'll try to answer your questions as best I can. And I'll preface that with saying that if anyone tries to tell you EM isn't burnout inducing or that the solutions are easy, they either are lying to you, lying to themselves or have no idea what they're talking about.

The major contributor to EM burnout (for me) is the shift work circadian rhythm disruption that often leads to a chronic, low grade dysthymia and dysphoria (or worse). What makes this worse, is that many around you (EM residents, attendings, EM leaders/recruiters) will try to tell you you're imagining it, perhaps out of their own denial (self preservation) or self serving reasons (career preservation). The administrative interference is mainly salt in a bad wound. The salt on the wounds is bad enough, insulting, galling, but it's not the 1,000 paper cuts themselves.


I like both, but this question is irrelevant to burnout. Whether you find joy in diagnosis or solving problems has no bearing on whether or not you chronically feel like dysphoric doing so, due to having to constantly force something that's inherently against your biology, which is to ignore your circadian rhythms. I tried to tell myself I could. I lied to myself. It remained a chronic nagging weight on my mood, energy level and not only while at work, it bled into nearly every off day not at work. In other words, "In EM, when you're off, you're off" is BS.

If you're having difficulty what this all means or relating to it, think of jet lag. To choose a lifetime of work in EM, is to choose to be feel at least a little (sometimes tremendously) jet lagged, the majority of your waking hours, for the next 30 years or until you leave EM.

Yes, but again irrelevant to burnout. It would be more appropriate to ask, 'Does the meaningfulness of quickly and efficiently drain a gluteus maximus abscess on a diabetic at 3 am outweigh missing your favorite holiday when you could have picked a line of work where you did the same thing at 3 pm on a Tuesday? Does it outweigh the fact that you felt dysphoric for the first 72 hours of your vacation which included your favorite person in the world's birthday?' That's what you should be asking.

Again. Sure, all that stuff is great. But do you really need to do all that on your favorite human beings' birthdays? Do you need to do all that at 4 am on Christmas/Ramadan/Hanukka/insert-favorite-holiday-birthday-life-event? Do you need to do all that without having slept? Do you need to do all that at midnight New Year's Eve? Do you need to do all that while feeling dysphoric and jet lagged all the time, or is it good enough to do it while feeling refreshed and rested, alway all the time, while doing something else?

Nope. Nobody gets a "rush" discovering 'novel things' they've worked long enough to discover before, and when what was novel when you choose their specialty, is now routine. Sure, satisfaction can come from an interesting case, but a 'rush'? No. That sort of initial high doesn't last with drugs and it doesn't last with EM. It only gets you hooked.


The administrative burden is heavy in all of Medicine. It's most heavy handed in hospital based settings, which makes it worse in EM than it is in some other settings.

Currently, and despite our complaining as physicians, no one in healthcare with any power to change anything is talking about lessening "administrative burden." Lessening the burden, is literally not a thing.

But I agree, the practice of EM is extremely similar in different times and locations. It's like nothing else, but EM is EM no matter when or where you find it. And certain things about it will never change, particularly the 24 hr nature of it, and it's effect on one's circadian rhythms. Just remember: Jet lag, all the time, nearly every day for the rest of your working life. If that is not, and never will be an issue for you, then EM might be for you. If that's an issue for you, consider something that allows you to live a normal life. I say this as someone who thought, at age 26 when I chose my specialty, that it would not be an issue for me. Then life happened and I realized I was stuck in a bind countless people warned me about, that I chose to ignore. Now that I've done a fellowship and have a normal life, and EM shift work is an option and no longer a requirement, I'm much happier. If you want to have a normal life, don't do EM. If you do EM, absofrickinlutely make sure you have a pre-planned, well thought out, iron-clad exit plan in place at the time of residency completion that allows you to get out of most or all of the shift work very easily at any point in your career. Some of the EM fellowships allow this, some don't and putting such a plan in place is easier said than done.

EM never changes. But we do.


The fellowships that allow you to get out of the shiftwork, I’m assuming those are critical care, tox, hyperbarics, palliative, sports and pain?

Any others I’m forgetting?

Also seems like other circadian soothing methods are nocturnist, rural EDs, and urgent care? Would taking only like 10-12 shifts a month help enough to lessen the dysphoria?

I matched to EM two weeks ago, and while I’m excited …. posts like this make me nervous. I don’t feel shifts hitting me now, but again with time everyone seems to say it gets worse.
 
The less shifts per month obviously the less switching back and forth and circadian disruptions.

Otherwise being a nocturnist is good option especially if you're not married with kids.
 
It's important to remember that the "meaningful interactions" really don't play a big role in job satisfaction because every specialty in medicine has that. There are general surgeons who dread doing another laparotomy for post-op wound intra-abdominal infection on the guy who refuses to take care of himself....and they have the weird, interesting cases that turn out just great and really change someone's life for the better and that is satisfying to them.

All jobs become a "job" after sometime
medicine, lawyer, car mechanic, food delivery guy, porno stars
they have good days and bad days, sometimes you are not on your A game
sometimes you are just fired up and fix everything.

imaging having a good day and your job is a porno star LOL
on a bad day...it's cut after cut after cut!!!
"Sorry man, didn't bring my A game today" LOL
 
The fellowships that allow you to get out of the shiftwork, I’m assuming those are critical care, tox, hyperbarics, palliative, sports and pain?

Any others I’m forgetting?

Also seems like other circadian soothing methods are nocturnist, rural EDs, and urgent care? Would taking only like 10-12 shifts a month help enough to lessen the dysphoria?

I matched to EM two weeks ago, and while I’m excited …. posts like this make me nervous. I don’t feel shifts hitting me now, but again with time everyone seems to say it gets worse.
Do the following EM Fellowships get you out of shift-work and eliminate circadian rhythm destruction:


Critical Care: No. Not even close. Your ICU is open 24/7, nights, weekends and holidays, and you'll be there.

Pain: Yes

Sports: Mostly yes, except for covering sporting events.

Palliative: Yes.

Hyperbarics: Probably. I do know a guy who did this fellowship, now runs a fellowship and works only 2 ED shifts per month. So for him, yes. But my knowledge on this is n of 1. Maybe someone else can chime in.

Tox: I'm not close with anyone that does tox, although I suspect that like hyperbarics, doing tox probably allows you to significantly reduce, but not totally eliminate, your shift work in a similar way.

Nocturnist: Mostly not. Though some people say doing all nights is the lesser of the shift work evils, you're still on nights, and any life outside of your night job occurs on days. So, your circadian rhythms are still a hot, stinkin' mess. There's a rare few, but very few people stay on all nights for very long.

Rural ED: I'm not super familiar with this, but I also have heard that doing the "6-7, 24 hr shifts per month" thing can work for some people, but I don't know. Anything that requires me to work 24 hrs in a row, can't be that good. If it was, we'd all be doing it. And even though you might sleep a few hours on some of the overnight portions, all it takes is one of those shifts where you get a trickle of patients all night long and your whole month is destroy because you worked a shift that felt like 24 hrs of all night intern-level torture.

Urgent Care: Yes, in that circadian rhythms are not an issue but your entire purpose in life is to fill the odd hours when doctors offices are closed, such as evenings, Saturdays, Sundays and most Holidays, in other words, the times most things important in life happen that aren't work.


But hey, remember when you were pre-med and everyone told you being a doctor wasn't going to be easy?
That's because its not. It's a demanding career. We're all different, so pick one that you think will be best for you and do the best you can. You make a good living no matter what path you choose.
 
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All jobs become a "job" after sometime
medicine, lawyer, car mechanic, food delivery guy, porno stars
...

imaging having a good day and your job is a porno star LOL
on a bad day...it's cut after cut after cut!!!
"Sorry man, didn't bring my A game today" LOL
I saw a documentary on this and what you're saying is essentially true. The guy complained about his job. Something about how hard (no pun intended) it was to keep going all day long, for multiple takes and retakes, without "losing steam" so to speak. Lol

Something along the lines of "it's more fun watching from the outside, than doing it on the inside." He essentially was b!tching about his job, "the ladies make all the money," "it's not what I thought is was" etc. Lol

It's almost like no matter how good you have it, you have to p**s and moan about it to be cool. If you say you're happy doing what you're doing and all is going well, then all your cohorts look at you like you crapped the bed. Lol
 
Do the following EM Fellowships get you out of shift-work and eliminate circadian rhythm destruction:


Critical Care: No. Not even close. Your ICU is open 24/7, nights, weekends and holidays, and you'll be there.

Pain: Yes

Sports: Mostly yes, except for covering sporting events.

Palliative: Yes.

Hyperbarics: Probably. I do know a guy who did this fellowship, now runs a fellowship and works only 2 ED shifts per month. So for him, yes. But my knowledge on this is n of 1. Maybe someone else can chime in.

Tox: I'm not close with anyone that does tox, although I suspect that like hyperbarics, doing tox probably allows you to significantly reduce, but not totally eliminate, your shift work in a similar way.

Nocturnist: Mostly not. Though some people say doing all nights is the lesser of the shift work evils, you're still on nights, and any life outside of your night job occurs on days. So, your circadian rhythms are still a hot, stinkin' mess. There's a rare few, but very few people stay on all nights for very long.

Rural ED: I'm not super familiar with this, but I also have heard that doing the "6-7, 24 hr shifts per month" thing can work for some people, but I don't know. Anything that requires me to work 24 hrs in a row, can't be that good. If it was, we'd all be doing it. And even though you might sleep a few hours on some of the overnight portions, all it takes is one of those shifts where you get a trickle of patients all night long and your whole month is destroy because you worked a shift that felt like 24 hrs of all night intern-level torture.

Urgent Care: Yes, in that circadian rhythms are not an issue but your entire purpose in life is to fill the odd hours when doctors offices are closed, such as evenings, Saturdays, Sundays and most Holidays, in other words, the times most things important in life happen that aren't work.


But hey, remember when you were pre-med and everyone told you being a doctor wasn't going to be easy?
That's because its not. It's a demanding career. We're all different, so pick one that you think will be best for you and do the best you can. You make a good living no matter what path you choose.
I'm FM but did full time urgent care for a while and while your opinion on that score seems correct, it also seems like it would be far superior to regular EM work schedule wise.

You will work some weekends and holidays, but I know very few urgent cares that are open on Christmas. Sure, missing the 4th of July BBQ every few years sucks but nothing like missing Christmas, especially once you have kids. I worked at a very busy place (60-80 patients/12 hour shift single coverage). 3 full time docs, so basically 3 days/week for the month and 1.5 weekends/month. Its not the 8-5 that I (and you, I believe) currently enjoy but its a far sight better than most EM schedules from what I see posted around here given the lack of nights.
 
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dealing with uncertainty. EM is easy when someone comes in with a defined problem with a defined answer. Its tough when everything is a shade of grey and you have to make decisions with incomplete information that has consequences if you make the wrong decision. RLQ pain in someone 22 weeks pregnant... CT imaging is probably ok but patients often are terrified of the radiation to their baby. US never ever gives a definitive answer. Surgery won't take the patient without a firm diagnosis of appendicitis. OB doesn't want anything to do with the patient until appy is ruled out. And missed appy in pregnancy has a ridiculously high maternal and fetal mortality. Sounds easy, just CT them (or MRI if you have it available). But then you wind up having to CT tons of pregnant women looking for the occasional appendicitis. It's grey area decisions like this, multiplied 20 times a shift, that make the job stressful. There are many many simple cases, but I'd say the majority of cases I see aren't "textbook' cases.

This is the hardest part and I think long term is the most destructive to the psyche of emergency physicians.

The crashing, burning, dying patients are not the hardest patients. The really sick patients have entered a common pathway of lethal pathology (hemodynamic collapse, respiratory failure, obtundation, loss of airway protection, etc.) Every half-decent ER physician can easily recognize these patients and initiate treatments from a fairly narrow list of indicated interventions at this point.

The hard patients are the ones like Gamer described above, middle acuity, gray area, vague/poor history, unreliable exam, some risk factor (pregnancy, comorbidities, intoxication, anticoagulant use, etc.) Furthermore the patient has an issue that makes 'plan a' untenable (do not want to CT the pregnant patient, patient is severely allergic to contrast, the indicated medication, etc.). The back up plan is also difficult (your facility does not have MRI at this hour, there is not consultant on call able to willing to do the diagnostic test or procedure you need).

Then you add extreme time pressure to move on to the next case (length of stay metric is ticking away, patients are filling the waiting room, family members are getting inpatient "why are we still here after 2 hours?!?"). Needless to say you cannot make the right call every time and there is always a "fog of war" shrouding emergency cases. Some of these wrong calls will result in a major morbidity or mortality. You do these calls 20x a shift for 20 years and you see where it can take a toll.

Other specialities typically confront much more defined problems. Patient is sent to a cardiologist for management of their a fib. If the other specialist cannot help the patient, they simply say so and they are done. If a necessary test, procedure, equipment is required and cannot be done, again turfed to a different specialist, hospital, clinic, etc. The patient is unpleasant, abusive, difficult, doesn't pay: Again, turfed somewhere else. None of these are acceptable options to the emergnecy physician and that takes a toll.
 
This is the hardest part and I think long term is the most destructive to the psyche of emergency physicians.

The crashing, burning, dying patients are not the hardest patients. The really sick patients have entered a common pathway of lethal pathology (hemodynamic collapse, respiratory failure, obtundation, loss of airway protection, etc.) Every half-decent ER physician can easily recognize these patients and initiate treatments from a fairly narrow list of indicated interventions at this point.

The hard patients are the ones like Gamer described above, middle acuity, gray area, vague/poor history, unreliable exam, some risk factor (pregnancy, comorbidities, intoxication, anticoagulant use, etc.) Furthermore the patient has an issue that makes 'plan a' untenable (do not want to CT the pregnant patient, patient is severely allergic to contrast, the indicated medication, etc.). The back up plan is also difficult (your facility does not have MRI at this hour, there is not consultant on call able to willing to do the diagnostic test or procedure you need).

Then you add extreme time pressure to move on to the next case (length of stay metric is ticking away, patients are filling the waiting room, family members are getting inpatient "why are we still here after 2 hours?!?"). Needless to say you cannot make the right call every time and there is always a "fog of war" shrouding emergency cases. Some of these wrong calls will result in a major morbidity or mortality. You do these calls 20x a shift for 20 years and you see where it can take a toll.

Other specialities typically confront much more defined problems. Patient is sent to a cardiologist for management of their a fib. If the other specialist cannot help the patient, they simply say so and they are done. If a necessary test, procedure, equipment is required and cannot be done, again turfed to a different specialist, hospital, clinic, etc. The patient is unpleasant, abusive, difficult, doesn't pay: Again, turfed somewhere else. None of these are acceptable options to the emergnecy physician and that takes a toll.

Exactly. The reasons for burnout are complex, and every ED doc has things they are more resilient to, and things that hit them harder. But definitely, for me, this is the hardest part of the job.
 
As someone who left EM after a decade at age 39, I'll try to answer your questions as best I can. And I'll preface that with saying that if anyone tries to tell you EM isn't burnout inducing or that the solutions are easy, they either are lying to you, lying to themselves or have no idea what they're talking about.

The major contributor to EM burnout (for me) is the shift work circadian rhythm disruption that often leads to a chronic, low grade dysthymia and dysphoria (or worse). What makes this worse, is that many around you (EM residents, attendings, EM leaders/recruiters) will try to tell you you're imagining it, perhaps out of their own denial (self preservation) or self serving reasons (career preservation). The administrative interference is mainly salt in a bad wound. The salt on the wounds is bad enough, insulting, galling, but it's not the 1,000 paper cuts themselves.


I like both, but this question is irrelevant to burnout. Whether you find joy in diagnosis or solving problems has no bearing on whether or not you chronically feel like dysphoric doing so, due to having to constantly force something that's inherently against your biology, which is to ignore your circadian rhythms. I tried to tell myself I could. I lied to myself. It remained a chronic nagging weight on my mood, energy level and not only while at work, it bled into nearly every off day not at work. In other words, "In EM, when you're off, you're off" is BS.

If you're having difficulty what this all means or relating to it, think of jet lag. To choose a lifetime of work in EM, is to choose to be feel at least a little (sometimes tremendously) jet lagged, the majority of your waking hours, for the next 30 years or until you leave EM.

Yes, but again irrelevant to burnout. It would be more appropriate to ask, 'Does the meaningfulness of quickly and efficiently drain a gluteus maximus abscess on a diabetic at 3 am outweigh missing your favorite holiday when you could have picked a line of work where you did the same thing at 3 pm on a Tuesday? Does it outweigh the fact that you felt dysphoric for the first 72 hours of your vacation which included your favorite person in the world's birthday?' That's what you should be asking.

Again. Sure, all that stuff is great. But do you really need to do all that on your favorite human beings' birthdays? Do you need to do all that at 4 am on Christmas/Ramadan/Hanukka/insert-favorite-holiday-birthday-life-event? Do you need to do all that without having slept? Do you need to do all that at midnight New Year's Eve? Do you need to do all that while feeling dysphoric and jet lagged all the time, or is it good enough to do it while feeling refreshed and rested, alway all the time, while doing something else?

Nope. Nobody gets a "rush" discovering 'novel things' they've worked long enough to discover before, and when what was novel when you choose their specialty, is now routine. Sure, satisfaction can come from an interesting case, but a 'rush'? No. That sort of initial high doesn't last with drugs and it doesn't last with EM. It only gets you hooked.


The administrative burden is heavy in all of Medicine. It's most heavy handed in hospital based settings, which makes it worse in EM than it is in some other settings.

Currently, and despite our complaining as physicians, no one in healthcare with any power to change anything is talking about lessening "administrative burden." Lessening the burden, is literally not a thing.

But I agree, the practice of EM is extremely similar in different times and locations. It's like nothing else, but EM is EM no matter when or where you find it. And certain things about it will never change, particularly the 24 hr nature of it, and it's effect on one's circadian rhythms. Just remember: Jet lag, all the time, nearly every day for the rest of your working life. If that is not, and never will be an issue for you, then EM might be for you. If that's an issue for you, consider something that allows you to live a normal life. I say this as someone who thought, at age 26 when I chose my specialty, that it would not be an issue for me. Then life happened and I realized I was stuck in a bind countless people warned me about, that I chose to ignore. Now that I've done a fellowship and have a normal life, and EM shift work is an option and no longer a requirement, I'm much happier. If you want to have a normal life, don't do EM. If you do EM, absofrickinlutely make sure you have a pre-planned, well thought out, iron-clad exit plan in place at the time of residency completion that allows you to get out of most or all of the shift work very easily at any point in your career. Some of the EM fellowships allow this, some don't and putting such a plan in place is easier said than done.

EM never changes. But we do.

What fellowship did you go into Birdstrike?
 
I agree the shifts and circadian issues are the worst and cause more burnout than anything else. That's why NZ, Oz, and the UK really limit antisocial shifts for attendings. In the US we are disposable.

I have a great job, but will be leaving the job and possibly EM completely 11 years out of residency due to circadian issues. Not sure what, if anything, I can or will do next.
 
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I agree the shifts and circadian issues are the worst and cause more burnout than anything else. That's why NZ, Oz, and the UK really limit antisocial shifts for attendings. In the US we are disposable.
Yep. I personally know a guy who moved his whole family to NZ to do EM there, and this is his reason.
 
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