Buying a house/apartment - WEB SITES

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Celiac Plexus

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Hey all,

Yesterday I matched in a city different from the one I am in now. I am planning on buying a house/apt in the new town but since I don't graduate until the end of May, and I have to report for the first day about 3 weeks later, I am gonna have to buy something pretty quickly.

Anyway, I want to use the good ol' internet to do some research immediately. To all the peeps out there who are in the same boat, do you know of any good web sites for home hunting? My initial efforts have turned up some pretty lackluster sites.


P.S. - Congratulations to the class of 2003!
 
pm sent, hope you don't mind.
 
You can try www.erealty.com

You have to sign up but it doesn't cost anything and they don't send you too much junk.

Ca. Dreamin'
 
Hey if you dont mind me asking, how are you swinging this purchase. I would love to own something even if its just a shack during my residancy years when I'll have some income to deduct from of course :laugh:.
 
Originally posted by GeneralTso
Hey if you dont mind me asking, how are you swinging this purchase.

Read my mind with that question. Having mooched off my parents and Uncle Sam for the past 26 years, I am officially a ****** when it comes to finances. What kind of price range can a resident shoot for when buying a domicile?

I'm thinking around 70-100K... assuming it will appreciate. Any takers?
 
Bank of America has a program - they want to get your business so that you will stay with them when you get the big bucks -

You can get a home loan as a resident with 0 down and no private mortgage insurance (which typically costs $75-125/mth ballpark). Usually, you would have to pay private mortgage insurance unless you put 20% down or build up enough equity to owe 80% or less of your home's value. I am not plugging for B of A, but I will use this program cause it's the best deal I know of.

The interest rates right now are phenomenal so you should be able to buy more house for your income level than in the last 20 or so years.

Good luck.
 
it depends on where you live. if you live in chicago, you will have a hard time affording it, assuming you are single and have loans.

if you live in the sticks, it isn't that difficult.

banks will loan you guys the money but don't get trapped into buying more than you can afford. you don't want to be forced to moonlight every week to pay the mortgage.

you can figure out what you can afford by various formulas. i forget the exact #'s, but there are a ton of calculators out there which can help you figure the #.

if you want help with obtaining a mortgage, i have someone excellent. you can pm me for his contact info.
or i could post it, but i don't want to seem like his pimp.

😀
 
Do you guys think its worth buying a place if you are only planning on being there for the 4 yrs? I know the market is good for buying now, but worried about getting stuck with selling it later. Its not like we have a lot of time to maintain or fix up a place for it to appreciate in value during residency. Any advice would be appreciated.
 
I've been looking on the realtor site for the past 3 hours now. It was easier picking out places to apply for residency!

Seems you can get a nice 3-5 bedroom home in Akron for $60,000 or less (in Akron, bets are off outside the city, apparently!). However, do I really want to deal with maintaining a house and fixing problems when they crop up when I get home from being an intern?

My mother, the real estate maven also pointed out to me that most of the payment goes to interest, and I might just lose money if the house doesn't appreciate, with taxes, insurance, etc.

Still, the idea of actually owning a house is very tempting . . .
 
Annette,

I agree that if your place doesn't appreciate over the short three years you are there, you will have essentially payed interest for nothing. Not to mention the cost of hiring a realtor once you get ready to sell. Still, if you can sell for what you bought for (minus the realtor fee) you will have essentially lived "rent free" for three years. Plus, all the interest you pay will be tax deductible if you itemize. And considering all the interest you will be paying, itemizing would probably be the way to go. (not that I know dick about tax law or anything) 🙂
 
Originally posted by pimmar
Do you guys think its worth buying a place if you are only planning on being there for the 4 yrs? I know the market is good for buying now, but worried about getting stuck with selling it later. Its not like we have a lot of time to maintain or fix up a place for it to appreciate in value during residency. Any advice would be appreciated.
obviously it varies wildly, but for single family detached homes, the rule of thumb is that you break even around 3 years. some places again will appreciate wildly and some may even depreciate. do your homework before you buy.

i really like owning but sometimes it is a pain in the @ss. things like mowing the lawn, shoveling snow, and other things seem to come up at the wrong times. also, you tend to spend more on things like furniture and plants when you own.
 
Originally posted by buzz
Bank of America has a program - they want to get your business so that you will stay with them when you get the big bucks -

You can get a home loan as a resident with 0 down and no private mortgage insurance (which typically costs $75-125/mth ballpark). Usually, you would have to pay private mortgage insurance unless you put 20% down or build up enough equity to owe 80% or less of your home's value. I am not plugging for B of A, but I will use this program cause it's the best deal I know of.

The interest rates right now are phenomenal so you should be able to buy more house for your income level than in the last 20 or so years.

Good luck.
there are better programs out there, and there are ways to avoid pmi.
 
Originally posted by smackdaddy
there are better programs out there, and there are ways to avoid pmi.

Could you elaborate? What are some better programs? How else can you avoid PMI? It would be very helpful to hear your response, as B of A doesn't have branches in every state.
 
the program that b of a offers ( the last time i checked, which admittedly was a few years ago) did not offer a very good interest rate, relative to what traditional programs were offering.

now if you have $0 in your checking account and you are trying to buy a 300,000 house off a 35k salary, you aren't going to have a lot of people fighting for your business. however, if you have some savings and your home is reasonable for your income, you can get a much better deal.

pmi can be avoided using a second loan on the home, a home equity loan. these are known as 80/15/5 or 80/10/10 loans.
80% 1st mortgage, 15% home equity loan, 5% down.
 
Hello all,

It is a big decision whether or not to buy a house, but a number of people have pointed out some very important things:

1. Interest rates are at their lowest point since Ike was president, as in General Dwight David...WWII...and that was a long time ago.

2. Your interest on your loans are tax deductable. A fast and easy way to calculate that is to take 1/3 of your monthly mortgage payment and assume you will get that back each month. ie if you are in a place that you pay a 1500 dollar mortgage you will get about 500 back per month that you are in there. This means after a full year, on your taxes your return will be about 6000 on the interest alone. (This is very general but it does essentially work)

3. There are multiple ways to go about financing. Smackdaddy is absolutely right. If you have a pile of money lying around...like Dr. Cuts who has it from his modeling career(j/k you are the man), you can pay 20% down, get an 80% loan, you won't pay PMI and you are set. If you don't, like Smackdaddy said, banks will provide you with some combination of 2 loans so you can meet the 20% criteria and not have to pay PMI. But the "second" loan they give you is always for a higher interest rate. Your big loan, the one for the 80% is at a low rate, comperable to what people get when they put 20% down or more but the loan that helps you meet the 20% is usually a much smaller loan but with a nearly 2x interest rate.

4. Once you own a place and it appreciates (AND of course this is always a HUGE "if" and depends on a huge variety of factors, not the least of which is the state of the economy, the location and the type of house/condo you buy.) you can re-finance and essentially roll all of your loans up into one and eliminate the extra mortgage/loan. (This of course lowers your monthly payment) As the house appreciates your stake in it grows and you "own more" and so once you reach 20% on your own you are all set.

5. Unforseen expenses can be bad..and if you buy a detatched house you are on your own...that is why before you enter into your "purchase and sale" agreement for buying a home or condo you have a home inspection. This is required by law and the inspector(s) go through and talk to you about problem areas. After the inspection you can either go ahead and buy the place or you can withdraw your offer. So at least you will not be blind to what you are getting yourself into.

6. Along the lines of unforseen expenses, if you buy a condo you will have an "association" and you pay "dues" to that association each month. Often it includes you heat, electricity or water. What ever is left go into the "RESERVES." This is important because the reserves are what gets used to pay for big ticket intems that affect all of the units in your association. ie a new roof, new electrical. ASK YOU AGENT ABOUT THE RESERVES OF THE CONDO ASSOCATION WHEREVER YOU BUY!!!!! The more reserves, the more buffer againt getting an "assesment" meaning a one time hit to pay for the big ticket items that gets divided among the tenants/association members. Also, high reserves means you can do overall upgrades to the building, paint, upgrade common areas etc.

7. Just in terms of personal experience, I have only been in my condo for 2 years and now I have to move across the country...thus I have to sell because I loose a lot of tax benefits is I keep it and rent it out (This is a whole different topic) and I need the money out if it to put a new down payment on a place out west. But my place has appreciated some. I did the 80/15/5, then refinanced after about 8 months and eliminated the 15 and lowered my monthly. I am hoping to make enoght after I pay for everything (real estate broker etc etc) to have a new down payment on a nicer place. BUT my friends who bought 2 years before I did made somewhere along the lines of 140K (they essentially doubled the value of their place) and now have a huge down payment and cash left over to hit loans and buy furniture etc...for them it was a great investment.

8. Which brings me to my last point.

(Sorry for being longwinded all, I just did this on my own...I know how stressful it is and want to help everyone out as much as I can.)
If you own a place for more than 2 years (and it is your primary residence and you don't have other investment properties) and you make a profit you can use that money for ANYTHING else..loans, a bender in Vegas, another house and it is TAX FREE. Even if you own a place for less than 2 years whatever profit you make will be TAX FREE if you use it to pay for another home. This is the government's way of giving you an incentive to buy a home. This is very important. So for my firends who made a huge profit they can take that money, turn it into cash, buy cars, pay off loans and they get 140 tax free......which is huge. For me I will probably have to put the money I make into a holding escrow account until I find a new place to use it on, because I don't want to pay capital gains on it...which is a huge 42% or so hit.


Anyway, good luck, I'll try to help out if people have other questions that they think I can answer. Congrats all.


Ca. Dreamin'
 
i am an m3 and i currently own with my wife (yes, i have a sugar momma).

dreamin is right, but i thought i should clarify a little. When you own, most of what you pay is interest each month. All of what you pay in interest is tax deductable.

Let's say you pay $1000 in interest each month. And you make $3000 a month in income. You are entitled to deduct 1k from 3k leaving you with 2k of taxable income each month.

Residents will most likely fall in the 28% bracket (i think), so if 28% of 3k is
$840 and 28% of 2k is $560, you "save" $280 each month by owning vs renting at the same price. That works out to over $3300 per year (hello vacation, big screen tv, etc).

Very few people actually stay in a home for 30-years to pay off the standard 30-year mortgage, so when you sell your home, you first must pay the bank what you owe them. After that, whatever is left is yours. What this means is: DO NOT BUT SOME P.O.S. PLACE JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN AFFORD IT!!! If your property depreciates significantly in value, you could be in some trouble when it comes time to repay the bank.

Last thing: Condo v coop - When you buy a condo, it is like you are buying a house; you OWN that piece of land. Also, you also must pay a monthly fee (an assessment) to pay for the upkeep of common areas (this varies wildly depending on how nice the building is).

When you buy a coop, you are buying shares of a corporation that owns the building. YOU DO NOT 'OWN' YOUR APARTMENT. This is where dreamin is right on about checking your buildings financials. If your coop defaults on their mortgage of the building (say 3 tenants cannot make their payments), the bank forecloses and you no longer own anything. You are now renters to the bank. Whereas if 3 tenants of a condo can't make their payments, the bank forcloses on those units only (because in a condo you own the property). Last thing, because the corporation owns the building, whatever part of your monthly assessment that is paying for the buildings mortgage is tax deducatble, so you deduct what YOU pay in mortgage and what you contribute to the BUILDING'S mortgage. Coops are much rarer than condos except in places like NYC.

Phew. Any questions, email me.
 
Great thread. Great info.

Let's keep it going. Thanks everyone.

😎
 
This is absolutely the most relevant thread (to me) I've ever had the pleasure of reading in the last couple of months. Thanks to all you guys who are helping out house-hunting newbies.

About a month or two ago, I started receiving stuff in the mail from "relocation services" that claim to offer a "free" service to relocating residents and assist in helping find and buy homes.

Has anyone used these services? Are they any good? Or are they just a front for organized crime? 🙂
 
I just wanted to pass on some of the things I've learned from this process:

First, even if you only owned a house for less than 2 years your profit may still be tax free because there is an exception if you are moving for employment reasons, which essentially we are. To find out how much profit would be tax free there is an IRS form you can download off their website.

Second, you do not have to use a realtor to sell your house. There are realtors that offer listing you on the MLS websites (yahoo, homes.com, etc) for a flat fee. In our area this was $500 which beats the 6% of our sales price we would have had to pay our realtor (~$9,000!). Check out hotlineproperties.com for more info on this. If you do this however, you are agreeing to pay 3% of your sales price if your buyer has an agent, but only if they have an agent. You can also advertise through your school and local residency programs. We could even probably start a thread on SDN. The downside is you need to be available to show your house rather than having a realtor do it.

I hope this helps!
 
I do not want to offend anyone's family by saying this, BUT...

real estate brokers are criminals with nice blazers. the percentage comission thing is a joke. They charge ~6% to sell your place (which means they make $12,000 on a 200k place). Think about how long you will have to work as a resident to make that much. If you are buying, the seller pays the broker, unless of course you use a buyers agent (whch some people consider necessary...i call those people lazy....see below).

That being said, the internet has changed the way people buy/sell homes. Yahoo.com, craigslist.org, and gold old fashioned local newspaper websites bring listings to people all over the world.

If you are looking at a move to/from a big city I urge you to look at craigslist.org. They allow FREE postings of ads. For chicago, look at chicagotribune.com, or even better, chireader.com (it is the online site for the chicago reader, an independent newspaper). for renters and buyers.

If you are moving to NYC, you may actually need a buyers agent, but only if you:
a) have no time. the market moves SO FAST.
b) do not know the area at all.
or
c)hate to have money in your pocket.

Not all buyers agents take out of your end, and their contracts are highly negotiable as opposed to seller's agents.

Once you enter into a contract with a realtor to sell your house, you are obligated to them no matter what. If you sign with Company X, and then the next night you are out at a bar, tell someone about your house being for sale and they buy it the next day, the realtor still gets the comission.

So, my motto is: do it yourself first. If you cannot sell/buy a place on your own, go to a realtor.

One other thing: do not even consider looking for places until you have been pre-aproved for a mortgage. You will just end up breaking your heart when you fall in love with a place, and then find out you cannot afford it. Apply now for pre-approval, you are NOT obligated to buy anything, it is just for when you need it.
 
i'm not sure why an above poster has to sell the house just because he is moving. if he can rent it for a profit, he can use the deductions available for a rental property. if he could afford to keep it and not rent it out, he would still be able to deduct the interest. he would possibly lose the 250k/500k tax free deal, but as long as he had lived in it 2 years out of the previous 5, he might not. the only thing requiring him to sell would be if he needed the money. the taxes become much much more complicated and i would recommend hiring a professional to help if you owned a rental property.

i paid my accountant a ton every year, but i never complained after the first year when i calculated a 1k debt to the government and he came back with them owing me 8k, even though i insisted he not be agressive because i didn't want the hassle of being investigated by the irs. doctors get hit disproportionately. and i like reading about tax law and irs decisions on tax law, so i am up to date as much as a lay guy can be.
 
I like this thread. There are some very useful posts. As always, doing anything complex, consult your accountant/ tax attorney about the tax implications of any real estate transaction. The statements below are not to be considered professional advice.

The big question really comes down to whether or not your home will appreciate or depreciate in value when you are ready to move. If you have to move in 2 or 3 or 4 years don't count on the housing market to be hot forever and the current housing bubble bursts in your neck of the woods a year before you are ready to move then you are SOL, if the housing market doesn't recover by the time you are ready to sell. (It's not always that easy to find any good renters for the price you will require and you have to make sure your house doesn't get beaten up as well). If you can commit to an area for about 5-10 yrs the odds are in your favor. Otherwise, the real estate market is a crap shoot. If you are flexible and can wait out a bad real estate market then your odds of doing well in real estate increase termendously over the historic long term.

The other thing to consider is that you have to maintain your property and have a cash reserve "in case" anything breaks or needs repair. You also pay property taxes (which are deductable) and your general electricity/gas etc bills are higher.

Also you have an to deal with the issue of liability not only for burglery etc, but also personal liability for slip and fall etc cases. You better make sure you have enough insurance to cover your butt.

Anyway, the 0 down deal with NO PMI from Bank of America is awesome. I assume you can get competitive mortgage rates in terms of points vs interest, etc.

Lastly, I would consider scoping the market out for a minimum of 6 months before buying anything even in this "hot" real estate market (which is really a sellers' market), especially if you are a new to the market or new to the area.

The golden rules of real estate besides location, location, location, are that you should buy in a town with better schools and public services, and with high income generating neighbors because your home, "all other things being equal", is more likely to appreciate in value and be sold faster.

Good luck and happy hunting.
 
Hot diggity damn no money down...just like those late night infomercials but for real. Anyone thats going through the process, how much house can you get preapproved for when you have a negative net worth of several hundred K and the resident salary is pretty meager to say the least. Im sure if you get a significant other to improve the financial picture it makes more sense to the lender, but if youre going to alone with the above scenario is it pretty much not worth doing over renting. I would bust my asss to save enough of a nut to get the downpayment down to make things more feasible. God knows investment opportunities are pretty slim these days 🙄 .
 
I second the General...


How much mortagage can I get pre-approved for if I'm a single med student, no savings but 100-200K+ in school loans to pay back??
(I put a range of loans to include most folks)
 
Anyone know a Realtor/Accountant/Tax attny type woman i can marry before June to help me with all this? Think I'd rather do that than go through what you all talk about, but it's still a good post.

Seriously though, how many single people (like me) are buying houses/condos?
 
Hi all-

Great thread... I'm also torn over the idea of buying versus renting. I'm single and >100K in debt as well. I'm really excited about moving but I know very little of the city where I will be moving (read: only 24 hours I spent there in my life were when I went there to interview.) It looks like a fairly affordable place (saw lots of one bedroom apts online running for $500-600/ month.) I'm tempted to live in an apt. for a year until I get a chance to scope out the city for a while.

For those of you who have been through this, will you be living on bread crumbs if you try to mortgage a house while on a single resident's salary and already 100K in debt? Or is it more reasonable in the long run- should I just skip the apt. for a year altogether?

All advice is appreciated.

Oh yeah, I'll be in surgical residency (5-7 years.)
 
This is how I look at the buying vs. renting debate. If you are going to be in 3 year residency and rent, you will pay about $650/month for 36 months. That is $23,400! $31,200 for a 4 year residency. If you buy a modest home in an area that residents have a history of living in, you should be able to sell without too many problems when you finish. Even if the home depreciates a little, it is very unlikely it will depreciate $23,000! When you look at the tax deductions for the interest, I think you'll come out ahead buying. I could be totally wrong and hopefully someone will beat me down if I am!
 
Originally posted by p-bo
This is how I look at the buying vs. renting debate. If you are going to be in 3 year residency and rent, you will pay about $650/month for 36 months. That is $23,400! $31,200 for a 4 year residency. If you buy a modest home in an area that residents have a history of living in, you should be able to sell without too many problems when you finish. Even if the home depreciates a little, it is very unlikely it will depreciate $23,000! When you look at the tax deductions for the interest, I think you'll come out ahead buying. I could be totally wrong and hopefully someone will beat me down if I am!


I'm not trying to "beat you down," but I think that there are some important things you might be missing:

1) You can't just look at how much money you pay on your mortgage over the years and apply it to principal. In fact, most of the money you spend in the first few years of a loan goes to interest, and very little actually goes toward principal. If you calculate it out, on a 30 year mortgage you will have paid approx 5% of the principal at 5 years.

2) As circleK pointed out, you have to pay closing costs when you buy and when you sell. Although you can avoid some of those if you don't use a realtor, I would imagine that most of us wouldn't have the time during residency to try and sell on our own. From what I understand, the seller pays the commission to the realtors, which is standard 6%. Also, when you are the buyer you end up spending 2-3% on other misc closing costs, like inspection fee, courier fee etc.

3) It's true that you get tax deductions on the part of your mortgage that you pay towards interest. But this may not be as significant for relatively low income residents who are already in a lower tax bracket. The tax advantage is nice, but when I've calculated it out it seems to just offset the cost of property taxes.

It is for these reasons that people say you should own for at least 3 and preferably 5 years to make you money back on buying a home. When you are planning on keeping a house for only 3-5 years, you essentially lose all the money you pay on your mortage to interest and closing costs. People only make their money back if the property value appreciates in the time that they own their house. Most property does appreciate, especially over the long term. But this is somewhat of a gamble because you never know what will happen to the housing market in your area in the next few years.

So you really have to know the housing market in your area, and have confidence that the property you are interested in purchasing will appreciate over the next few years. Particularly if you own for just 3 years you could end up actually owing money when you sell if your property fails to appreciate or even depreciates.

Also, it is important to include all additional housing expenses when doing the rent vs buy calculation. Buying includes several additional expenses, including maintenance/repair costs, homeowners insurance, property taxes (usually offset by income tax advantage of buying), and additional monthly costs you wouldn't pay when renting such as garbage, water, sewer etc.

I've been doing a lot of research, as I am also trying to make the rent vs buy decision. If you are serious about buying, check out the book "Home Buying for Dummies."
 
I crunched some numbers to help me decide about renting vs. buying. I figure that I'll spend about $7200 on rent for one year. If I buy, I figure I'll spend about $20,000, but then only ~$3000 a year after (assuming no major mechanical breakdowns!). With that in mind, I'd need to stay 4 years to make buying pay.

Since I want to transfer, and I don't know the area I'm moving to, I'm going to bite the bullet and rent. That way, I can spend the extra $12,000 on furniture!
 
Ive been parsing through this thread looking for some nuggets and this is what Ive gathered so far and some questions that I thought of. Anyone feel free to correct me cuz figuring out how to purchase a place while breaking even during residency would be quite a coup.

1. No to little money down and a 30 year mortgage so all the monthly payments are mostly interest and slight to no equity buildup unless appreciation. Therefore, the bulk of the benefit is in interest tax deduction to offset our 28% bracket or more depending on state taxes and any other taxable income if we moonlight, sell blood, etc.

Someone mentioned prop taxes but I thought that was tax deductible as well.

2. Cant assume appreciation but how often do you get catastrophic market meltdown in a 4-7 year range. I know this is levered finance so losses get magnified so what are the possible exit strategies we should be thinking about if we do get stuck in such a situation.

3. Biggest question Ive got is wheter lenders will preaprrove me for anything just by virtue of the fact that I have a medical degree and potential future earnings. If so, how much and what factors is it dependent on (et. FICO, ratio of debt to assets excluding student loans, how much liquid assets, etc.)
 
Originally posted by GeneralTso

1. No to little money down and a 30 year mortgage so all the monthly payments are mostly interest and slight to no equity buildup unless appreciation. Therefore, the bulk of the benefit is in interest tax deduction to offset our 28% bracket or more depending on state taxes and any other taxable income if we moonlight, sell blood, etc.

Someone mentioned prop taxes but I thought that was tax deductible as well.
The first part of what you said is true. If you buy with little down on a 30 year mortgage and own for 3-5 years, whatever equity buildup you get will be due to appreciation. The small amount of principal you actually pay down will be offset by closing costs etc.

It is also true that by itemizing your deductions you can deduct the interest paid on your mortgage plus the property taxes. So if your mortgage for a 100k house is 600/mo at around 6.5% interest, and most of your mortgage is interest, you can deduct 600 x 12months or 7200 from your adjusted gross income. You can also deduct property tax, which varies but averages about 1500/yr on a 100k house. So you can deduct a total of 8700/yr. But remember, by itemizing your deductions you give up the 4700/yr standard deduction (single) you would otherwise take (take a look at the 1040 form and the 1040 schedule A at irs.gov if you don't understand). So you really only get a net deduction benefit of 4000/yr. Multiply this number by the 28% tax bracket most residents are in, and you see the tax advantage is 1120/yr. Not even enough to offset the property taxes. I ignored the state tax benefit because state income tax varies and is usually pretty small (5%) or so.

2. Cant assume appreciation but how often do you get catastrophic market meltdown in a 4-7 year range. I know this is levered finance so losses get magnified so what are the possible exit strategies we should be thinking about if we do get stuck in such a situation.
It is true that you would likely come out OK after 4-7 years, as real estate has historically always appreciated over the long run. If there was a big dip in home prices and you end up owing the bank more than your house is worth, most people just move and keep their house as a rental until the market gets better.
3. Biggest question Ive got is wheter lenders will preaprrove me for anything just by virtue of the fact that I have a medical degree and potential future earnings. If so, how much and what factors is it dependent on (et. FICO, ratio of debt to assets excluding student loans, how much liquid assets, etc.)
I haven't applied for a loan myself yet, but I have heard that you will have no problem getting approved for a mortgage as a graduating medical student, since your student loans are deferred. Banks won't expect you to have any assets etc. You could be hurt if you have a lot of CC debt or a big car loan. The rule of thumb I have heard is that your mortage payment can be about 30% of your pre-tax income. So 38k/12*.30 =950/month. Which means you could qualify for a 150,000 house on a resident's salary, assuming 6.5% interest. Whether you could afford that kind of monthly mortgage payment would be up to you to decide.


So bottom line in my opinion:

- buying a house during residency is somewhat of a gamble, but one with pretty good odds.

- The odds improve the longer you own the home.

- The payoff is that you might have a nice bit of equity to use as a down payment on a future home.

- Buying will probably not be much cheaper than renting on a monthly basis, but it is a better long-term investment. Of course this depends on the rental vs. real estate market in your area. Also, because interest rates are so low it is more likely that buying will be cheaper that renting now.

- The major downside is the hassle factor: looking for a house, maintenance on the house during residency, selling the house when you are done, possibly having to rent the house to someone else if you can't sell.

- All of the above changes if you have a big downpayment, a significant other that makes a lot of money, or if you think you might stay in the house for a while after residency.
 
Ive been using EZ since my tax situation the last few years has been *ahem* simplistic but there was something about your example that perhaps Im missing. When you itimize on Schedule A, I thought prop taxes and mortage inteterest go into reducing your AGI so its 9700 (7200+1500) using your numbers that go into reducing the gross to determine the AGI for tax purposes. Since we're itimizing, we can also reduce tax liability and go to a lower tax bracket by claiming charitable contributions, medical expenses and the other 2% caps like expenses on magazines, trade journals, that normally isnt allowed using the standard deduction. I fail to see how this is a worser deal compared to the standard deduction.

Thanks for all the other info and numbers you provided...good stuff.



Originally posted by DuneHog
The first part of what you said is true. If you buy with little down on a 30 year mortgage and own for 3-5 years, whatever equity buildup you get will be due to appreciation. The small amount of principal you actually pay down will be offset by closing costs etc.

It is also true that by itemizing your deductions you can deduct the interest paid on your mortgage plus the property taxes. So if your mortgage for a 100k house is 600/mo at around 6.5% interest, and most of your mortgage is interest, you can deduct 600 x 12months or 7200 from your adjusted gross income. You can also deduct property tax, which varies but averages about 1500/yr on a 100k house. So you can deduct a total of 8700/yr. But remember, by itemizing your deductions you give up the 4700/yr standard deduction (single) you would otherwise take (take a look at the 1040 form and the 1040 schedule A at irs.gov if you don't understand). So you really only get a net deduction benefit of 4000/yr. Multiply this number by the 28% tax bracket most residents are in, and you see the tax advantage is 1120/yr. Not even enough to offset the property taxes. I ignored the state tax benefit because state income tax varies and is usually pretty small (5%) or so.


It is true that you would likely come out OK after 4-7 years, as real estate has historically always appreciated over the long run. If there was a big dip in home prices and you end up owing the bank more than your house is worth, most people just move and keep their house as a rental until the market gets better.

I haven't applied for a loan myself yet, but I have heard that you will have no problem getting approved for a mortgage as a graduating medical student, since your student loans are deferred. Banks won't expect you to have any assets etc. You could be hurt if you have a lot of CC debt or a big car loan. The rule of thumb I have heard is that your mortage payment can be about 30% of your pre-tax income. So 38k/12*.30 =950/month. Which means you could qualify for a 150,000 house on a resident's salary, assuming 6.5% interest. Whether you could afford that kind of monthly mortgage payment would be up to you to decide.


So bottom line in my opinion:

- buying a house during residency is somewhat of a gamble, but one with pretty good odds.

- The odds improve the longer you own the home.

- The payoff is that you might have a nice bit of equity to use as a down payment on a future home.

- Buying will probably not be much cheaper than renting on a monthly basis, but it is a better long-term investment. Of course this depends on the rental vs. real estate market in your area. Also, because interest rates are so low it is more likely that buying will be cheaper that renting now.

- The major downside is the hassle factor: looking for a house, maintenance on the house during residency, selling the house when you are done, possibly having to rent the house to someone else if you can't sell.

- All of the above changes if you have a big downpayment, a significant other that makes a lot of money, or if you think you might stay in the house for a while after residency.
 
Originally posted by GeneralTso
Ive been using EZ since my tax situation the last few years has been *ahem* simplistic but there was something about your example that perhaps Im missing. When you itimize on Schedule A, I thought prop taxes and mortage inteterest go into reducing your AGI so its 9700 (7200+1500) using your numbers that go into reducing the gross to determine the AGI for tax purposes. Since we're itimizing, we can also reduce tax liability and go to a lower tax bracket by claiming charitable contributions, medical expenses and the other 2% caps like expenses on magazines, trade journals, that normally isnt allowed using the standard deduction. I fail to see how this is a worser deal compared to the standard deduction.

Thanks for all the other info and numbers you provided...good stuff.

Sorry, I must have not explained myself well. I'm not saying it would be better to use the standard deduction. It's just that you can't chalk up the entire 8700 as a tax benefit, because without itemizing you would still get a $4700 deduction. So when you are calculating the tax benefit of deducting the interest on your mortgage, you have to subtract the standard deduction you would get anyway if you didn't have a mortgage and weren't itemizing. It's true that you can also include other expenses when you itemize, but for most of us those are minimal. You can only deduct the medical expenses that exceed 7.5% of your AGI (most people our age with insurance don't have out of pocket medical expenes that high). And you can only deduct work related expenses that exceed 2% of your AGI. If you made a lot of charitable contributions or had some other reason why it would be advantageous for you to itemize even if you didn't have a mortgage, then it would certainly change the situation. But for most residents the bottom line tax savings for deducting interest on a 100k mortgage is as I calculated it, about 1120/yr.

Also, I was a little confused by your saying that we would "go to a lower tax bracket." The tax structure is a tiered system so that for singles the first 27k is taxed at 15%, 27k to 65k at 28% and so on. So to calculate the money you would save by deducting you just multiply the deduction by 28%, unless the deduction is enough to put your AGI below 27k, at which point you have to multiply the amount that puts the AGI below 27k by 15% instead.

Man this is complicated stuff. I can see why people hire accountants.+pissed+

Anyone out there that bought at the start of your residency? How has it turned out?
 
One way to get out of of the problem of closing costs is to roll those costs into the loan. Your house will need to appraise for a higher value than the purchase price. There are also No-Doc loans available out there in which with good credit you can qualify for the loan without providing documentation of income, etc.
 
Thanks for the clarification. Understand your point that interest deduction alone doesnt make the purchase worthwile but its one of the those factors that we can improve upon by planning.


Originally posted by GeneralTso
When you itimize on Schedule A, I thought prop taxes and mortage inteterest go into reducing your AGI so its 9700 (7200+1500) using your numbers...

Oops. Now I know why I'd make a lousy accountant.
 
This is a great thread. I have a few Qs:

1. Can anyone give a website address for this Bank of America mortgage program? Is it specifically for resident physicians?

2. Some ppl mentioned that better programs exist out there... is there some place on the internet where we can examine these programs?

3. Finally, is anyone here going to a residency in a relatively expensive city (e.g., NY, SF, LA, Chicago, Seattle) where it is impossible to find a non-crap house/condo for <200k? What do you do if your max pre-approval is only about $140k-150k? I'm getting my parents to co-sign for my pre-approval, but that still leaves monthly mortgage payments of >$1000... maybe i'll be eating at the hospital with on-call coupons all the time... haha
 
Hi All

I'm wondering how much rent I can afford on a resident's salary. I'm assuming 35k yearly, and a 28% tax bracket. But what about other paycheck deductions? SST, etc. Can any residents maybe tell us what their "advertised" annual salary is, and how much you actually bring home every 2 weeks? Thanks for any assistance.
 
I have three main points...loan info, calculating your ability to pay and a paycheck calculator. I am new to this, so if you catch an error, don't be too cruel.

1. Just got done inquiring about the NARI mortgage deal (Nat. Assoc of Residents and Interns) through Wachovia (formerly First Union). This is one of those 0% down no PMI deals. There are BETTER DEALS. This is due to the fact that the interest rate on this zero down loan is approx. 7.8%. The better deals include a 3% down 6.25% interest and a 5% down 5.75% interest - both with low PMI (lower than what you lose with a 1.6% interest increase). i hope I'm clear - its confusing.

2. Just go to <www.mortgageexpo.com> click on mortgage tools, then how much can I borrow?

If you don't know the student loan payments, there are good calculators on <www.salliemae.com>. I recommmend the MAX4 consolidation for lowest monthly payments during residency.

(You might have noticed I edited this post....yeah my calculation method was pretty damn flawed)

3. I don't want a loan that big, though, because I found out how much I actually clear on my paycheck using the link below:

<http://www.paycheckcity.com/NetPayCalc/netpaycalculator.asp>


Hope this all helps....

KFC
 
I'm curious. I'm a 3rd year hoping to move to MD next year for a 4 year residency. My question is does it help or hurt you to buy a new (0-5/10) year old house (I imagine new houses have less things that wil break down, but maybe don't appreciate as well). Any thoughts?
Also, my parents are convinced that if I buy a condo, I'll never be able to sell it. What do people think?
 
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